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My gear predicament... (Alpine Touring)

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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Right now I hate my current AT setup. I have Rossi Scratch BCs with Marker Dukes. The skis are heavy, stiff, and generally feel dead. They flex like a high speed carver but are built like mid fat pow ski. They are heavy and so are my bindings. The Dukes are just over kill for me, they are heavy and suck for touring. I usually go touring with old people and don't really do any jumping or jibbing. I have a pair of Caylors for this anyway.

I want to get rid of the Scratchs and Dukes, I would prefer to keep them together. The skis are in good shape and mounted twice. The Dukes are in pretty good shape and have a little cosmetic damage. First priority goes to the people I work with at Showdown, there are alot of sick skiers that would like a setup like this at my hill. If know one wants to buy them there then I will put them on here. What is a fair asking price? The setup cost me about $675, I know I wont get nearly that much but dont want to take a huge loss.

My next predicament is what to replace them with. As far as skis go, I would like something around 100-120 in the waist with some tip rocker. Something more for charging rather than jibbing. I was kind of thinking about Gotamas and Ants. Most of the touring I do is either in fresh Montana blower snow, spring corn, or summer granular snow. I probably wont be doing a ton of vertical either. As far as bindings go, Dukes and Barons are out of the question, I don't really like either of them. I am not interested in Trekkers either and I don't have Dynafit compatible boots. That leaves Naxos and Fritschis. I weigh 190 lbs, I ski hard and I am pretty hard on gear. I will only use this setup about 10-15 times a season though so I guess i could take a small sacrifice in quality to save money.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Mar 1 2009 4:31PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
i hear you on the burliness of the bc's with dukes, i view my jj's with dukes as alpine skis with a touring capability, not the other way around, so it's a slackcountry setup. i absolutely love the karhu BC100 with dynafits. the ski is the prophet 100 with a chopped tail that weighs like 5lbs and dynafits weigh nothing. it's super light but also the skis rip as you know if you've ever skied prophets. only problem is burliness of dynafits and they don't have the tip rocker you're looking for. i've had way more problems with frischi than with dynafit, i pre-released every other turn with freeride+'s so i don't trust them anymore, tried a bunch of different pairs, different dins, different ways of adjusting them, and i just couldn't stay in them, besides if you really flex your ski the heels come undone and then you're doing tele turns. i know a lot of people who haven't had any problems with freerides but i don't trust them. dynafit came out with a 12 din binding this year so you could ride at 11 and the only time i've found dynafits pre-release is in crud when you slide your tails and they get caught on a clump of snow your heels will rotate and you'll come out, but i wouldn't recommend riding dynafits in crud. so the way i see it there're dukes and dynafits, i don't really trust much in between, silvretta's suck, naxo's aren't that much lighter than dukes, and i've had lots of problems with fritschi
Mar 1 2009 4:42PM
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ReedSkis~
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 98
Yeah, i'd look at next years gotamas
what about the Moment Garbones? those sound like what you want
Mar 1 2009 4:43PM
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Aenigma
Posts: 11256 - Karma: 424

Shopping around for AT gear sucks.  Naxos and Fritschis tour well and are light, but they're also super tall and flex when you turn.  Dukes ski really well but, as you have seen personally, aren't very good for actual touring. 

It sounds like you'll be going the Naxo/Fritschi route though, so I'll just give you my personal experience there.  The Naxos tour better than any other binding on the market, in my opinion.  With the pivot in front, it really feels like you are just walking while you skin.  The older ones like to blow up, but they have become reasonably durable in the newer models--just keep in mind these are AT bindings, so you won't be landing switch or hucking anything big.  I think the biggest cliff I ever hit with my NX21's was maybe 20' into about 18" of blower, and at 160 I felt like that was about as much as I would want to do.  I know people jump bigger stuff on them, but I also know that the same people break bindings quite a bit. 

Fritschis are going to have a little less slop in the toe because they don't have the funky pivot, but aren't quite as nice to tour in.  But it's essentially the same as every other binding on the market in that regard, so no worries there.  They are also noticably lighter, and have a simpler toe.  Either way you'll end up with a good binding, it's just a matter of deciding which things you want to be slightly  better.  Binding flex will become a bigger issue with wider skis, I'm at 110 and I don't think I would put Naxos on anything much wider. 

As far as skis go, that's really just personal preference.  If you thought scratches were too stiff I don't think you would like the ANTs much.  I ski with people who tour on everything from foam-core 70mm waisted skis all the way up to 194 XXL's with dukes, and we mostly go the same places...it's just a matter of where you put your priorities.   

Mar 1 2009 4:44PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Those are both sick skis, unfortunately Im not going to spend enough money to buy next years skis, most likely I will be buying used skis...
Mar 1 2009 4:57PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
I think your right about it coming down to Naxos and Fritschis. If cost, downhill capability, and durability were the three most important factors in my decision, which would be the better choice? It wasn't so much the stiffness of the Scratch's that I didn't like, I just didnt like anything about them and the flex just made everything worse.


Thanks to everyone else who responded. I don't neccasarily want a tip rockered ski although I think it would be sweet. I would easily settle for a pair of Gotamas from a few years back or something like that.
Mar 1 2009 5:01PM
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Aenigma
Posts: 11256 - Karma: 424
The big thing will be that if you're not touring on Dukes, you're going to have to change the way you ski in order to use AT bindings.  For me it hasn't been a problem because I don't ski nearly as hard in the backcountry just because of the risks (and I am physically incapable now...)  I've done 50+ at Big Sky in chopped up snow with Naxos, and I know a 200 pound guy that has no trouble keeping up in the resort on his skis with FR+'s, so they'll both hold up on the on-the-ground skiing aspect just fine.  Search around and see what other people say, or just get whatever you can find cheaper.  Just don't get the older freerides, the FR+ is  way better and won't go tele on you. 

If you're in Bozeman sometime you can try out my 182 Zealots with NX21's, it's been my favorite AT setup by far. 
Mar 1 2009 5:09PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
The thing is, I usually go on ski tours with my 35 year old cousin, a 50 year old ex race coach at my mountain, or a few other friends who don't ski to aggressively. The Dukes are overkill for 95% of the stuff I am skiing with these people. I am coming to Bozeman tonight, I have some stupid legal stuff to take care of on Monday and I am skiing Bridger on Tuesday. I will give you a call while I am down there and maybe I can check out your setup.
Mar 1 2009 6:10PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Obsethed.
Mar 1 2009 6:34PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
beat me to it.


tip only rocker this year( i think) and finding used/cheap next year shoudnt be too hard
Mar 1 2009 6:41PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Exact-o-mundo.
Mar 1 2009 6:47PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
damn that was my 5000th post.
Mar 1 2009 6:50PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
Perhaps barons are an option? They won't be a ton lighter, apparently it's noticeable. And I would avoid naxo's. Really bad retention, and this one guy I know went through like 10 naxo heels, all replaced by warranty. The thing that sucks about fritshcis and naxos is really bad torsional rigidity. That's where a lot of prereleases happen with those bindings, is the skis just flopping around and the boot coming loose rather than the binding letting go.
Mar 1 2009 7:55PM
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ilikeplants
Posts: 1868 - Karma: 17

As for ANTs. I love mine, they're a power ski. You really have to charge and push to get them to deliver but once you do they are sick. I haven't tried them for touring but they seem fairly light for such a big ski. Price wise, I bought mine at Ski and Golf here in Colorado for $360. They are last years model with the tan topsheet but same as this years.

I think the Naxo's would be a sick binding, you could even try that system where you use a regular fixed heel binding with that BCA thing that turns it into a touring setup. Might work good?

Maybe look into the Obsethed, tip rocker, mid fat waist, charging ski, stiff but not a 2x4, ya know?

Mar 1 2009 8:19PM
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Rbamf
Posts: 792 - Karma: 15
i'll give you some binder advice, since i've tried all three.

the duke- the heaviest and arguably slowest. you hate them, so no need to elaborate.

the fritschi freeride- pretty light. sloppfest. you are constantly adjusting to counter-act the slop.

the naxo nx21- tours better than all of them because of the virtual pivot point (dual pivots), not as sloppy feeling as the fritschi. they are going out of business so they will become hard to find.

as for the ski. depends on your style, but youre not going to get a light 120mm underfoot setup, id suggest something with around 105 underfoot.
Mar 1 2009 9:01PM
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fouldsys
Posts: 7404 - Karma: 39
my thoughts exactly
Mar 1 2009 9:20PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
+1

exactly why i ruled out naxo and freeride in my post, there's duke and dynafit, duke should be an inbounds/slackcountry setup, dynafit is full out bc, and they look small but they're burly as fuck for what they are
if you're looking for a stiff touring boot look at the scarpa skookum, it's so sick
Mar 1 2009 10:07PM
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purpleflurple
Posts: 1452 - Karma: 20
So if you wanna no my opinion. I have the 07 gotamas with a naxo nx21. I love the setup the naxo i feel tours really well. One thing i dont like is it does sit up high. The gots are super sick they have taken me through a lot of croud. I am 5'10" 160 and i am riding a 183 and think it is the perfect size. If you have the money i would go for the dynafit though. A few of my friends are touring with dynafits and absolutly love them they wheigh nothing. I would also check out the bibby pro, helix, lahsa pow, and probably the jj. I would definatly recomend the gots though.
Mar 1 2009 10:53PM
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purpleflurple
Posts: 1452 - Karma: 20
By the way i should add i rode the Liberty helix while i was in steamboat and that ski ripped. I slayed in pow, cliffs, groomers, park and even moguls and it was a Super dope ski.
Mar 1 2009 10:56PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
My current AT setup is a pair of Movement Gladiators (93mm) and Freeride+. Tour around with a fairly mixed group with all kinds of gear so this is what I have seen.
- Dukes you have already found the downsides to them, so while burly they aren't a true AT
- Naxo's definitely have the most natural walk mode, but this in turn translates to a lack of torsional rigidity, and I would not want them on a ski over 100mm (personally I wouldn't ride them at all, though lots of people swear by them)
- I have been very impressed with my Freeride+. I end up riding them as a resort setup fairly often and notice very little difference in the way they ski vs. standard alpine. Though that said they are not alpine and don't take quite as much abuse. Weight is quite low and they tour excellent.
- Dynafits would be awesome but like you I couldn't justify a new pair of boot...quite yet

As far as the skis go you can pretty much tour on anything, living in the east when touring means varied conditions I will probably stick to a below 100mm ski, though have considered setting up my bibby's with the freerides+. The ANT might be a bit stiff is you don't like the Scratches though.
Mar 2 2009 8:36AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Hey guys, thanks for all the advice. I was actually super surprised that I could get this much advice without posting on TGR. Right now, there is no way I could justify buying AT boots for Dynafits, so that is out of the question. I guess my binding choice is still inbetween Naxos and Fristschis.. I checked out Sam's setup, Zealots and Naxos, they were super light, like half the weight of my setup. I really don't want to spend more than $450 on this setup. What are some price point suggestions? I think I could find older Gotamas for fairly cheap and I have been offered Ants for $300. As far as bindings go, is there any chance I could get a decent Naxo or Fristschi in the $100-$150 price range or am I lowballing myself?

Also, what would be a fair asking price for my setup?
Mar 4 2009 11:59AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
I' m inclined to say six...but I don't know exactly.
Mar 4 2009 12:43PM
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Gomer_GSX
Posts: 326 - Karma: 35
If you feel that setup is too heavy look into going towards Line Sir Francis Bacons with Marker Barons.  That's what I currently have and compared to my brother's Duke setup its MUCH lighter.  Not only have I had no issues with the slightly lower DIN of the Baron (12 DIN), but the skiing is VERY enjoyable and could be considered a one quiver ski at the wider width than pretty much anything else in this thread.  I couldn't be happier with the light weight and kick everything's ass nature of these skis.
Mar 4 2009 7:25PM
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Gomer_GSX
Posts: 326 - Karma: 35
Another thing to add about the Bacons, they have plenty of contact at the base, which can plant edge for days and still had plenty of pop to it.  The only other ski I'd look at in that size for rocker would be next years Shogun.  But honestly the rocker isn't terribly noticeable in that ski, still rips though.
Mar 4 2009 7:28PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Meh.. kind of on the wider end of what I'm looking for, and probably a little soft. I'm sure they're a fun ski but not what I am looking for. Even though Barons will be lighter they will tour the same as Dukes which in my opinion is sub par.
Mar 4 2009 8:49PM
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Gomer_GSX
Posts: 326 - Karma: 35
If you can ride the Bacons, by no means are they 'too soft' since all that I do is charge on them, which I consider them pretty skinny now. Even stiffer than the Bacon is the Mothership, nearly the same ski with an extra layer of metal. Another great ski to look at is the Icelantic Nomad, it can charge pretty much anything you throw at it.
Mar 4 2009 9:20PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Except for the part that I don't want a huge ski to tour on...
Mar 4 2009 9:32PM
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dirty_barry
Posts: 23 - Karma: 10
So what do you want?  The Bacons are within the spectrum you asked for and for the times I have used them have more than fit the bill.  You are going to be buying used gear and it appears that you have already made up your mind about what you want.  Get the volkls already.  I would be willing to tour on the icelantic nomads, salomon shoguns, or the rossi s6's.  In terms of bindings I don't feel comfortable saying that the NX binders would hold up to rigors of main hill punishment that it appears your setup will be used for.  The fritschi's are probably better suited for it, but I haven't been let down by my duke's or baron's. 
Mar 4 2009 9:48PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
i think he was leaning towads the 100side of the "100-120 mm" and possibly something stiffer, and arent sfb's a full rocker? he jsut wanted tip if that.
Mar 4 2009 9:52PM
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dirty_barry
Posts: 23 - Karma: 10
For reference here are some rockered skis vs. the non-rockered Bacons.  They are a slight bit dirty from the trip back from Powder Mountain today...

From Left to Right

Pontoon   |      Bacon       |      Rossi S7

Tip:

Click for larger image

Click for larger image


Tail:

Click for larger image

Click for larger image
Mar 4 2009 10:06PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
thanks for taking the time to do that, i looked at teh line website, ti said early taper under sfb specs, i mistook that to be rocker.
Mar 4 2009 10:28PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Yeah, I was gonna say..try no rocker on the SFBs
Mar 4 2009 10:44PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
living in NY has resulted me me not knowing much about rocker/fat skis cause ill never get to use em haha
Mar 4 2009 11:07PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Ya, they are on the fatter end of what I said. I would rather stick closer to 100mm. I won't be using the NXs on main hill and if I do it won't be very often. I already have two sick pairs of skis for that.
Mar 5 2009 12:42AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
I'd go Obsethed, or Goat with the Naxos for your bill.
But Gotamas aren't a soft ski by any stretch of the imagination...pretty beefy/stiff mofos.

Considered Prophet 100s or Chronic blends? Older JP vs Juliens are sick and can be had cheap...plus they are light as all get out, I loved mine.
Mar 5 2009 2:17AM
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benk
Posts: 1342 - Karma: 988
Touring is pretty much all I do and I went from a Karhu Agent (old Line Chronic) to a Moment Comi with a Pure Silveretta Freeride binding. I'm 6'5'' 215 and havent had any problems with the binding after 4 years on it. landing switch, dropping cliffs etc. they never release on me with a DIN of 10. but I would stay away from these bindings. they put you so high on the ski. I feel like a giant but I love my setup. my dad is on fritschi's and never has had problems either and hes same size as me. I wasnt concerned about weight of the setup because I usually stick to less than 1000' vert slopes.

One thing I noticed while touring with the fat ski if you cant edge on steeper slopes. I have G3 climbing skins and they stick to stuff I would pull out my ice axe for but when traversing its hard to get a bite depending on the snow conditions so I would look at less than 105 or 110 for touring. Moment Ruby? Bibby?
Mar 5 2009 5:20AM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
I have the Bibby's as my soft snow play ski and while they would be fun coming down I don't think I'll be mounting them with my Freerides + for going up. The wider you go the worse they will be on icy sidehilling and they will put a lot of torque on the binding while in tour mode, which is the time where the binding is at the most vulnerable since all your weight is concentrated on a small pivot and half as many mount screws. I'll be sticking sub 100mm standard camber to tour on. Though this all depends on what kinda of touring you intend to do, but if your traveling with old guys looking to enjoy the travel up as much as the ski down you don't need the biggest baddest ski out there
Mar 5 2009 8:12AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Exactly.
Mar 5 2009 12:09PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
The more I think about it, the more I think the JPs would be a great touring ski...103 underfoot and light as a feather.
Mar 5 2009 12:13PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
What about blends or the prophet 100 as your ski. idk jack shit about touring bindings, but for a ski thats my 2 cents
Mar 5 2009 2:40PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
word those ive only heard good things about
Mar 5 2009 3:00PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
also might consider the VCT
Mar 5 2009 11:40PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Hey guys thanks for all the good advice. Now what would be a fair asking price for my setup:

Rossi Scratch BCs, a few years old 185 cm
mounted twice, the second time with size large Dukes at a 317mm BSL
no core shorts or significant damage to the ski whatsoever
Small cosmetic damage to the bindings
Total original cost was about $650.
Mar 9 2009 8:26PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
?
Mar 11 2009 5:56PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
5?
Mar 11 2009 10:13PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
figure 300ish for the dukes, mabye 150ish for skis? they are older+ 2 mounts.

figure $400+ for the setup at least
Mar 11 2009 10:16PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Really think so? I would love to sell them for that much but I don't think anyone would pay that much.
Mar 11 2009 10:16PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Maybe, not sure what year the Scratches are...but it wouldn't be a bad idea to start there.
What'd you get with the TGR rules?
Mar 11 2009 10:18PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
according to the rules dukes might sell for $100 :)
Mar 11 2009 10:33PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Well since I have OG Dukes and I don't know how much Scratchs would sell for now I really have no idea, it will be real low though.
Mar 11 2009 10:37PM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
i would say around $500 kip.
Mar 11 2009 10:48PM
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