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Strobes

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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
I'm looking into getting a strobe for this upcoming ski season (yea upcoming i'm on the east coast fuck all of you that have snow) and I wanted to know what all of you use and how they work for you
Nov 7 2010 2:14PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
I have a sunpak 333 and a vivitar 283, and I like both of them. I'm looking to get a sunpak 4000 400 w/s strobe for skiing because they are super powerful. I'd personally suggest a sunpak 333/383 or a vivitar 285 hv, both are great for the price.
Nov 7 2010 2:49PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
sunpak 555 or vivi 285. cheap. reliable. variable power settings. everything you need.

cactus v4's if you wanna go dirt cheap and less reliable for triggers

or the alienbees cybersync triggers if you can afford more.


or pocketwizards if you really have the cash. however if you are just getting into it you might not want to drop that much right away.

also

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
Nov 7 2010 3:21PM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
Fuck cactus triggers if you wanna go cheap get yongnuo RF-602's i have them.  They have never misfired once in at least 200 shots so far.  For flashes check out the YN-465 i just recieved it in the mail the other day.  It's a really great small flash, powerful, easy to use, has TTL capabilities and manual settings as well for 60 dollars shipped!
Nov 7 2010 4:24PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
link me to the ones you got, I think they might be the ones I was looking at
Nov 7 2010 4:27PM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
http://www.hkyongnuo.com/e-detail.php?ID=239
I think these are the ones he was looking at
Nov 7 2010 4:45PM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
I have an SB-800 for my speed light

and a Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS pack for the big boys.


Nov 7 2010 6:12PM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
Just check the link the ROFLC0PTER  put up thats the flash i got, i love it!  The triggers are on there too oh and you can get them for 30 dollars for trigger and reciever with free shipping from China.
Nov 7 2010 6:25PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
any chance you can upload an example or two? not sure i trust a 20 dollar chinese flash...
Nov 7 2010 6:33PM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
An example of what, a photo taken with the flash?  Trust me, i was wary of the whole idea of a china made flash but its actually VERY well made.  It comes with a little hotshoe stand too so you dont need a lightstand and a small built in diffuser that slides out from above the flash head.  It refreshes in i'd say 2 to 3 seconds on full power as well (which is powerful.)   its a good size and its light making it very portable.

The other thing to note here, is that Yongnuo is a VERY large company that makes legit products they're just unheard of, on this website.  If you go on www.photography-on-the.net pretty much every person on the website owns one of their products and i've hardly heard anything bad about them!  Ask about YN flashes on that site and you will see what i mean.
Nov 7 2010 6:55PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hm. interesting. where do you actually buy from. ebay? or did i miss the store part of that site?
Nov 7 2010 7:10PM
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TheGreen
Posts: 504 - Karma: 41
I've got a 285HV with some cheap triggers and a lightstand. Works great for me and was pretty cheap. But if that chinese flash ends up being legit.. then by all means get that
Nov 7 2010 9:35PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
I love my Nikon SB-26, it's got everything you could want in a flash and more. Good luck finding one though, people don't really want to sell... and it's no surprise.
Nov 7 2010 9:44PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
"Strobe" generally means that you are looking for a high power flash head.

Do you want big strobes, or do you want a speedlight?
Nov 7 2010 10:43PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
I'm so used to hearing strobe referring to both, but that's what I thought too. Uggg
Nov 7 2010 11:17PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
I use a mix of Alienbees strobes, powered by a Alienbees/Paul C. Buff Vagabond power pack, triggered by a mix of PocketWizards.

In my opinion Alienbees strobes are about the best bang for your buck, in terms of quality, price, power, durability, and options. I should also point out that in my experiences with them as a company, their customer service is extremely legit. Two years ago my Vagabond crapped out on me a few days before I was supposed to shoot the Dew Tour in Breck, and without hesitation they overnighted me (at their expense) a brand new unit from Tennessee to Colorado before I had even sent mine back. They've also been extremely helpful any other time I've called and spoken with their tech support.

Make sure to pay attention to the t.1/t.5 flash duration of whatever strobes/speedlights you're looking at getting. I saw a few other people suggest SB-800's, and for good reason. They're powerful, small, light, and very durable as I've heard.

Don't make the mistake I did when I bought my first strobe! That was buying an Alienbees 1600 which I thought was smart, because it was the most powerful. That was before I knew anything about flash duration, because a 1600's flash duration is too slow to freeze action in a photo, so I was constantly getting blurred, somewhat flashed, action shots. I had no clue why until I took the time to learn more about what flash duration meant. I'm still in the process of learning about off camera lighting nearly 4 years after getting into photography.

For triggers, I've always used PocketWizards since day one. Yes they're expensive, but in my opinion they can take a beating, they too have very good customer service, and they're basically a [photo] industry standard. They also have a very high resale value because of their tried and true performance and reputation. I recently sold a PocketWizard Plus II that was about 2 years old, for barely any less than I paid for it new, which in turn funded a new PocketWizard Flex TT5.

Your head is probably spinning at this point reading what everyone in this thread has said, as there are definitely lots of options and things to consider, so feel free to ask whatever questions you want about strobes. Don't worry about feeling stupid asking questions before you buy either. It won't compare to how stupid you could feel if you didn't ask questions first, then every photo you took of Travis Rice in Keystone's medium park, using 1 Alienbees 1600, came out completely blurry and shitty. Trust me...
Nov 8 2010 11:57AM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
Yeah buy em from "hkyongnuo" on ebay.  That way you're buying direct from the company and its not sketch at all.  And for everyone questioning, I swear they're legit as fuck.
Nov 8 2010 12:41PM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35

so I was looking at the alien bee b400 how do I tell if the flash is fast enough to catch a skiier heres the link

http://www.alienbees.com/b400.html

Nov 8 2010 1:04PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
with the b400, the flash duration is shortest at full power and gets longer as you power it down. I think it's about 1/6000th of a second
Nov 8 2010 1:35PM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
For anyone interested instead of the 465 check out the YN 560 it has zooming and under 1/8 power can flash up to 8 fps.  It's under 100 dollars.
Nov 8 2010 1:35PM
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RileySnyderPhoto
Posts: 688 - Karma: 1,451
Personally I use my Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS with the Freelite "A" Head and for the smaller stuff I have a Canon 580 EX II and a Canon 430 EX II with pocketwizards for triggers. I started out with Elinchrom Skyport triggers but upgraded to PWs after I learned that it was mostly line of sight which sucks for hiding your lights. I love my Ranger and wish I had the money to get a bunch more but right now there are more necessary things to buy.
Nov 8 2010 2:15PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
The B400 is undoubtedly fast enough to freeze action in theory, however, alot of variables go into it.. Distance your flash is from the subject, ambient light, which reflector you're using, etc.

When you're looking at flash durations, the t.1 flash duration is more realistic in terms of being able to tell how well a flash can freeze action vs the t.5 flash duration. On paper, 1/1000 sec. (or anything faster) is the shutter speed needed to technically 'stop' action, so if the t.1 duration says 1/1000 (or anything above that) then technically the flash duration will be short enough to stop action. When it dips below 1/1000, i.e. the B800 going from 1/1100 sec. at full power down to 1/550 sec. at 1/32 power, then that's where you'd run into problems freezing action.

Again, this is very subjective due to some of the reasons I listed above, but hopefully that helped a little bit. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I've understood flashes, and specifically Alienbees flashes, to work.

To make it a little clearer, here is a breakdown of the B400's in action which Brian Garson at Action Sports Cartel was nice enough to put together: http://ascartel.com/lighting/lighting-tutorials/84-shooting-with-2-strobes-fisheye-and-right-into-the-sun

I also highly recommend ASCartel.com if you're looking to learn more about action sports photography. It's been a little dead with activity lately but there's lots of useful info on there and plenty of people willing to share their opinion.
Nov 8 2010 6:22PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
Some helpful reading about flash durations on ASCartel.com: http://ascartel.com/lighting/lighting-tutorials/57-understanding-flash-durations
Nov 8 2010 6:42PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
This and www.strobist.com are excellent places for action sports specific material and lighting specific material, respectively.


I miss W&W, even if it was getting pretty retarded towards the end... That was such a golden forum, filled with information. It's a shame it isn't up, even as a read-only...
Nov 9 2010 1:05AM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
This thread has been a major help for me I don't know how many people are actually looking to buy strobes but I'm gonna say sticky for this thread
Nov 9 2010 7:12AM
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Obie.
Posts: 1741 - Karma: 3,646
^word,,,,,,,,this thread helped me out alot,,thanks guys
Nov 9 2010 10:21AM
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Ftacnik
Posts: 1997 - Karma: 111
My Threads. That chinese flash is interesting.
Nov 9 2010 10:23AM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
Yah do you know exactly why W&W shut down? It seemed like a lot of shit talking and hating toward the end. It's back up apparently, but it's application based and supposedly pretty dead. Hopefully the activity on ASCartel picks up a little.
Nov 9 2010 10:30AM
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freestyle180
Posts: 87 - Karma: 51
do you know if those alienbees come with a stand... if not what do you use ?
Nov 9 2010 12:16PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253074-REG/Impact_LS_8A_Air_Cushioned_Light_Stand.html
Nov 9 2010 12:31PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
They don't come with a stand, nor a carrying bag, which I highly suggest getting from them when you order your strobe. It has a really stupid cartoon 'alien bee' printed on the top, but they're great quality and are sized specifically for AB flashes obviously.

I have a mix of Paul C. Buff and Manfrotto light stands, with no complaints about either brand. Definitely take a minute before buying a stand(s) to think about where and how you'll be using your flash(es), because it really sucks buying a small lightweight stand for a good price only to be cursing yourself later when it's top heavy and wobbles around any time it goes higher than 4 feet.

Also, Alienbees has premade packages which you might benefit from while saving a little $ too, peep em here: http://alienbees.com/packages.html
Nov 9 2010 1:11PM
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RileySnyderPhoto
Posts: 688 - Karma: 1,451
http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Four-Section-Air-Cushioned-Section-Risers/dp/B000CC9LS8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1289330059&sr=8-1

I personally have this one for my strobe and it is an amazing stand and a great deal for what you get out of it. Goes very high and is still pretty stable
Nov 9 2010 2:18PM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
No they don't but you can buy them in a package stand carrying case etc. direct from the website
Nov 9 2010 5:24PM
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njwa88
Posts: 465 - Karma: 15
Great info in this thread! Very useful stuff to know.
Nov 9 2010 7:21PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,399
anyone know the major differences between the SB-700 and the SB-600? what would be best out of these combos to start with (knowing I all ready have 4 shitty ebay flashes):

1.) 2x SB-600s

2.) 2x SB-700s

3.) 1x SB-700 and 1x SB-600

4.) something completely different?

Nov 9 2010 7:28PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
It closed down because Garson just didn't want to pay for bandwidth if it was going to be so much shit talking and hate. As for ASCartel picking up, I don't know how likely that is, since you have to pay to sign up...

Is it really back up? Could you post a link or something? going to wheelsandwax.com sends you back to ASCartel.
Nov 9 2010 10:08PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
Ah, yah that's what I figured. I think the payment on ASCartel is meant to deter people who would just sign up to talk shit while never really contributing anything useful to the forum. I was happy to pay since the site is so helpful tho, totally worth it in my opinion.

I know when W&W shut down Garson had a page up saying there'd be a new W&W that was like invite only or something. I have no idea if that ever took off or not tho.
Nov 10 2010 10:22AM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
I was just wondering, do any of you use umbrellas, snoots,etc when doing ski shoots?
Nov 10 2010 3:43PM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
Negative. Not at all trying to sound like a dick, but I'd read up on what the purpose of each of those modifiers do, because it's sort of like asking if anyone uses skins or a beacon while skiing park. That's not to say people don't use different modifiers but I can't say I've ever seen someone shooting sports with an umbrella, snoot, or anything else that significantly cuts down/softens light output.

The best place I can direct you to for anything off camera flash related, is the Strobist blog: http://strobist.blogspot.com/ There's a TON of great info on there and it's all free.
Nov 10 2010 7:03PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
I've seen people use umbrellas, but I don't see why anyone would ever want to.

People will use different dishes that throw a narrower beam further or spread it out wider, most people stick to pretty simple dishes though.
Nov 10 2010 7:52PM
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LBJJ
Posts: 683 - Karma: 1,730
ahah very true i use alienbees also and they are sick,



and to add to the alienbee discussion....


I Also started with b1600's but worked out good for me for rails and such nothing to fast moving and worked ok for some jumps, def did notice a little blur in jumps.

BUT now with the new help of the amazing Alienbee Einstein there is no more problem its reallllly sick and just as fast or faster (dont feel like looking up the speed) of the B400's.

Also the new Alienbees lithium batteries are out and cheaper than the big batteries and do almost the same thing, and are wayyyyyy wayyy more portable


DEF a sick company, dont let the silly name alienbees fool you they are top of the line stuff.
Nov 10 2010 10:28PM
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LBJJ
Posts: 683 - Karma: 1,730
PS: love your shots man
Nov 10 2010 10:30PM
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RileySnyderPhoto
Posts: 688 - Karma: 1,451
Most of the time people just use reflectors but sometimes you could use a softbox as a modifier like sometimes I will use one to shoot skating to change things up and not have harsh shadows. but its all preference but 90% of the time a simple reflector is used.
Nov 10 2010 10:59PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
I think that idea mutated into ASCartel, but I too remember the invite-only forum being mentioned once or twice.

Oh well, no problem there.




Irrelevant information:

If you want some radio triggers, but don't want to pay all your limbs and your left nut for PocketWizards, I've had experience using Paul C. Buff Cybersyncs. They are reliable and range has not been a problem for me. No, you won't shoot football fields away from your lights, and you won't trigger lights that are inside a flying helicopter from the ground, but they're fine for most applications I can think of. The battery is unconventional in the camera-unit, but there aren't any other drawbacks I can think of.
Nov 11 2010 4:26AM
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h.yfoskett
Posts: 285 - Karma: 219
i do believe that mattias fredriksson uses umbrellas and soft boxes in some of his urban shoots
Nov 11 2010 8:01AM
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freestyle180
Posts: 87 - Karma: 51
do you know where i can find flash duration of canon and nikon flashes because i do not find it on internet and i need to buy strobes for the cold season.. I got a 580 ex ii but i dont know if i will get some 430 ex or a nikon sb-xxx. if you have some info that could help me would be aprreciated
Nov 11 2010 8:45AM
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LBJJ
Posts: 683 - Karma: 1,730
Well nikon says right under tech specs on their site and Canon usually doesnt put every single tech spec on their site but you could prob download the manual for them and look it up there
Nov 11 2010 9:20AM
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freestyle180
Posts: 87 - Karma: 51
thanks... i'll downlaod info about the 430exii but i'll porbably go with some used sb-80dx.
Nov 11 2010 9:25AM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
Really? I wonder how he uses them shooting action stuff?? Either way he definitely knows what he's doing! His stuff is awesome.
Nov 11 2010 10:26AM
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chipkalback
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 30
thanks man!
Nov 11 2010 10:26AM
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Winston_Smith
Posts: 722 - Karma: 35
Do you guys light rails any different way than jumps
I'm sure the rail that it is matters a lot too but is there any general difference
Nov 12 2010 3:52PM
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