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They released flexes from 90 to 130. looks like you can also use it for touring. Will this boot feel good with that middle buckle, idk about these boots. Yes they instantly sold out.
they didn't do it intentionally, nor with the intention for it to be dangerous. people are just trying to speak louder than me to invalidate my logic.
They did it out of habit and industry norm. You guys read the posts... onenerdy said the abducted last is what other brands do too, 40 yrs of dev, and that athletes like it. That is habit/norm.
everyone gets uncomfortable and flippant when information is being challenged by a non-authority figure. people here are talking about who to "believe" instead of the topic at hand. I'm not asking you to believe me, I already gave you my reasoning, debate that.
i feel bad because the armada boot is sick, i'm only critiquing the last angle... but when onenerdy insinuated my opinion didn't matter because he said so, I had to stick up for myself.
what i'm describing derives from what every bootfitter learns regarding canting soles and alignment... how the knee CoM traces over the foot, this is essentially the core basis of my point. depending on how the last is angled, it changes how your knee CoM traces over the foot. which influences everything you experience skiing.
I re-listened to the armada blister and onenerdy blister pods after this... in the onenerdy blister panel at 1:05:00 he says he is very bow legged. I've explained multiple times how the abducted last makes sense specifically for the varus aligned. So it makes sense he's never experienced it or was aware of the affect because he can't experience it IRL because of his body shape.
scratchskier321everyone gets uncomfortable and flippant when information is being challenged by a non-authority figure. people here are talking about who to "believe" instead of the topic at hand. I'm not asking you to believe me, I already gave you my reasoning, debate that.
Last time I'll respond to you:
No-one had a problem with you having an opinion. The problem was with how you went about expressing yourself.
Not to mention your historic ability call out other people for what you saw as wrong, and your amazing inability to listen when other people criticize you/your opinions.
It's the social equivalent of washing your hands after you shit so when you shake someone's hand they don't get your shit on them.
they didn't do it intentionally, nor with the intention for it to be dangerous. people are just trying to speak louder than me to invalidate my logic.
They did it out of habit and industry norm. You guys read the posts... onenerdy said the abducted last is what other brands do too, 40 yrs of dev, and that athletes like it. That is habit/norm.
everyone gets uncomfortable and flippant when information is being challenged by a non-authority figure. people here are talking about who to "believe" instead of the topic at hand. I'm not asking you to believe me, I already gave you my reasoning, debate that.
i feel bad because the armada boot is sick, i'm only critiquing the last angle... but when onenerdy insinuated my opinion didn't matter because he said so, I had to stick up for myself.
what i'm describing derives from what every bootfitter learns regarding canting soles and alignment... how the knee CoM traces over the foot, this is essentially the core basis of my point. depending on how the last is angled, it changes how your knee CoM traces over the foot. which influences everything you experience skiing.
I re-listened to the armada blister and onenerdy blister pods after this... in the onenerdy blister panel at 1:05:00 he says he is very bow legged. I've explained multiple times how the abducted last makes sense specifically for the varus aligned. So it makes sense he's never experienced it or was aware of the affect because he can't experience it IRL because of his body shape.
Have you ever thought that maybe the last angle doesn't feel good for you because you have got really wacky biomechanics that might not work with most boots or that you have got strange inconsistencies in the way which you ski and it not being normal? There are so many confounding variables here that can't really be controlled just off the basis that we have different shaped feet (why bootfitters exist) and ski differently. It is impossible for a brand to make a boot that will fit wonderfully for everyone, but boot designers pick a shape that makes sense with what they are trying to do and with the data they see and go with it. Anecdotal evidence cannot back up your points aside from the fact that the boot and last shape might not work for you. This is also why brands - like atomic - use a heat moldable plastic to make it easier for more people to get in their boots, and why they put cant adjusters on their higher end boots, sell boots with calf volume adjuster, why bootfitters will always put you in a proper insole ...
One last thing, if you look at the standard anatomical shape of a person (go find an anatomy textbook), their feet will be angled slightly outwards.
snormanHave you ever thought that maybe the last angle doesn't feel good for you because you have got really wacky biomechanics that might not work with most boots or that you have got strange inconsistencies in the way which you ski and it not being normal? There are so many confounding variables here that can't really be controlled just off the basis that we have different shaped feet (why bootfitters exist) and ski differently. It is impossible for a brand to make a boot that will fit wonderfully for everyone, but boot designers pick a shape that makes sense with what they are trying to do and with the data they see and go with it. Anecdotal evidence cannot back up your points aside from the fact that the boot and last shape might not work for you. This is also why brands - like atomic - use a heat moldable plastic to make it easier for more people to get in their boots, and why they put cant adjusters on their higher end boots, sell boots with calf volume adjuster, why bootfitters will always put you in a proper insole ...
One last thing, if you look at the standard anatomical shape of a person (go find an anatomy textbook), their feet will be angled slightly outwards.
I explained the nuance in my posts, who it's for who it's not. The biomechanics of it all.
No-one had a problem with you having an opinion. The problem was with how you went about expressing yourself.
Not to mention your historic ability call out other people for what you saw as wrong, and your amazing inability to listen when other people criticize you/your opinions.
It's the social equivalent of washing your hands after you shit so when you shake someone's hand they don't get your shit on them.
identified onenerdy's alias account.
all of you guys can pile on in this thread, but none of you have addressed the underlying mechanics. Instead, you are telling me I express poorly. lol.
mods you can delete this thread if you want, it's not fair to armada. i own a fuck ton of armada skis and they are my favorite brand. they don't deserve to be caught up in this. boot is sick, I gave my pair to a liftie kid who was fkn stoked to have it. it's all good.
PartyBullshiitWant to summarize? That shit is unreadable on the phone.
MCskid: "Their BOA thread is the Armada AR one thread. Some guy endlessly(like 3 pages) going off on abduction angles and claiming the atomic nerdykid and k2 Tom guy are intentionally building dangerous boots."
chicken feathers: "^lol. I was just looking trough that thread over there."
@onenerdykid can you please confirm if there is any special method to heat molding the Armada Team Liner or is it just normal process like any other liner? (heat up in boot oven, buckle into boot and stand on a ramp)
DragonSlayer7@onenerdykid can you please confirm if there is any special method to heat molding the Armada Team Liner or is it just normal process like any other liner? (heat up in boot oven, buckle into boot and stand on a ramp)
No need to heat the liner in the oven - just use a hot air blower for 10 minutes, buckle the boot at medium tension, and elevate the toes, etc.
onenerdykidNo need to heat the liner in the oven - just use a hot air blower for 10 minutes, buckle the boot at medium tension, and elevate the toes, etc.
First couple days on snow with the 130s this week. Super impressed! Ton of energy through the cuff, I would say a very noticeable positive change from the Lupos I was coming out of. Still has that progressive Cabrio feel but has a snap and pop that's super refreshing. Slingshot buckle feels very smooth and provides a consistent hold in the ankle, really pulls everything back nicely. Big fan, excited to dial things in!
Scratchskier, I I appreciate your critical thinking on ski boots but IMO there are several flaws in your thinking.
"all of you guys can pile on in this thread, but none of you have addressed the underlying mechanics. Instead, you are telling me I express poorly. lol."
Happy to address.
Firstly you seem to be applying your biomechanics too everyone else.
"this is why I like dalbello DS, Cabrio, and Lange Shadow the lasts are straight away and don't block out the 1st met and big toe. Prime skis incredible until your tips feel they're gonna cross. The abducted last, and outward pointed hinges for the cuff are such a brutal combo, made for pizza skiing."
Just because these lasts block your first met and big toe doesn't mean they do that for others.
"It does have the same 2.5mm of abduction, pivoting from the heel (not from the midfoot like Fischer, which is a very noticeable difference. That means only the forefoot moves 2.5mm, which is honestly not a lot. FYI - more than half of the brands do this with their all mountain boots too. It's far more common than you think.
abducted lasts are dangerous for anyone not varus aligned and have no logical use in modern 18-20m skis. to ski every version of a bent or ARV, or like elan ripstick... nobody needs extra torque from the boot design to turn those skis. when the last is abducted it blocks out the 1st met and the result is center of knee mass tracking more over the big toe causing inwards input to the skis. it doesn't matter if its only 2.5* from the heel because the prime last has no 1st met expanded area like a lange shadow, so its effectively like 2.5* plus
Again this is for you
so when armada's entire line of skis are based off relatively short radius, early rocker, ease of turn. Using a 2.5* "plus" last is counter intuitive because nobody that skis that boot is trying to turn a 26m radius or make a slalom turn. When you ski more zero'd lasts the initial edge of the turn is more true to the ski's design. Every bit of foot abduction adds some smear early in the turn. A similar, but different sensation to when the heel of the zeppa is too high and it causes initial edge to be ovecooked.
from a varus position your knee COM tracks outside the 2nd toe for longer before it crosses inwards of the 2nd toe.
from a valgus position your knee COM tracks inside the 2nd toe a lot earlier.
outside 2nd toe is called over-edged, and inside 2nd toe is called under-edged.
so when the last is abducted outwards you increase the divergence between knee COM and 2nd toe which causes an inwards torque on the ski, also known as under-edged, which is basically just like a smeary inside edge feeling. too much of this turns your tips inwards.
the varus person can manage that divergence better, because their knee starts from outside 2nd toe as they flex. whereas the valgus person is instantly cooked traveling inside the 2nd toe.
this video on reddit is a super extreme case, but it highlights the mechanics. you can see how this girl's insane valgus alignment affects the turn.
Sample of one, can't apply to all.
"eileen gu is over delta'd in the griffon binding and never falls."
How do you know if this an an ankle dorsiflexion mismatch( addressed in boot) or a proximal biomechanics-tib/femur, torso/lower extremities ratio(addressed by binding delta" without a hands on evaluation.
"when you go to a vail resort and watch people ski, they are all fighting too much ramp and too much delta. they all look like retards squating back and trying to turn."
IMO the big problem with this population is likely to be unaddressed limited ankle dorsiflexion, which certainly puts people in the back seat. They likely need more ramp inside the boot. Limited ankle dorsiflexion is rampant in the US. But again, there is no way to know without an in person exam of everyone of these people.
"yes. but when you heat up the shell completely it loses all intended structure and skis like trash. how you would do it is sand out the lateral side heel pocket, punch navicular, punch 1st met and 1st toe... then your foot would sit straight in the AR-prime. But realistically you just buy a different boot, not worth the time."
Again this is for you, a sample of one
This boot is abducted on the heel which means the lateral heel pocket is not moved medial, this happens only on boots that are abducted on the mid foot. It seemsyou are confusing abducted on the heel with abducting on the mid foot, which does onboard the heel.
Correct. The hinge/cuffs that are aligned outwards accentuates a similar inwards style input that the abducted last does. They are not the same mechanically, but the result is comparable. This is specifically what bode was talking about in the pod.
Bode doesn't talk about abduction. I disagree that abducted on the heel creates a similar conditions outwardly aligned cuffs
The cuff aligned outwards does not create knee-in position, it just creates torque between the cuff and clog that transmits to the ski. It adds inside edge grip and earlier engagement of the edge, it feels roughly similar to a outward canted boot. You apply force with shin into the cuff, which transmits to the clog, and when cuff if set like 3* out from the clog that creates and inwards torque that translates to the ski. When you ski that OG tilt shell bode is describing, you experience very little input from the boot adding to the turn of the ski. you mainly feel only ski radius turning you.
Agree
Boots with abducted lasts or outwards hinge/cuff you feel the boot adding "turn input" to the ski on top of what the radius is already doing.
Again for you, not for me. samples of one.
you should think of the abducted last as creating "knee CoM tracking inwards of second toe (under edged, in canting alignment terms) and then a very direct medial response from the boot in the middle of the turn because when you pronate into a last that is titled outwards the medial wall is right there on navicular"
Again, I think you are using an example of a boot with abduction on the mid foot.
the outwards cuff alignment in relation to the clog, is more like "early edge initiation & strong response, and you need to be careful to not over cook it as you flex deeper into the shell, it adds turn input to the ski. if you ski OG tilt shell/cabrio and a lange back to back it's very noticeable how much the cuff orientation adds to the turn"
I completely agree with Bodie on outward tracking cuffs.
Boots that are abducted on the heel are likely also medial knee tracking for a pronated foot,, as when a foot pronates the forefoot abducts. Allowing some pronation allow more international hip rotation which is what is really happening with medial knee tracking.
thanks for posting Bode pod, he's right, it validates all my posts in this thread. I own this thread now.
Bode pod says nothing about abduction, you only own this thread in your own mind
dubageTried these on in a shop while they were warm. They felt pretty mushy, but I'm 240lbs... Anyone know how much the stiffen up in the cold air?
considering they use the same plastics as atomic hawk boots its safe to say they don't stiffen up that much. hawk boots run a little bit softer as a general rule but are relatively consistent despite outside temperature. any plastic will stiffenor soften depending on weather but the difference is marginal in most modern all mountain style boots, especially considering the plastics armada/atomic use
nOtyRmOmconsidering they use the same plastics as atomic hawk boots its safe to say they don't stiffen up that much. hawk boots run a little bit softer as a general rule but are relatively consistent despite outside temperature. any plastic will stiffenor soften depending on weather but the difference is marginal in most modern all mountain style boots, especially considering the plastics armada/atomic use
The AR One 130 has a pretty solid flex. Its comparable to my Hawx Ultra 130 RS. I only skied the AR One a few days, but it has good support, and there's a second bolt to add to the cuff/spine connection that should make it a bit more supportive off the top.
For anyone looking, I just listed my pair of 130s in a 27.5 in the gearswap. I'm more of a low volume/ultra foot so the last isn't quite perfect for me. But great boots overall!
These boots work insanely well with an intuition wrap liner. Been on them the last two days and have had a ball. This is after trying a ton of boots this year and attempting to find a winner. Should have a few more days on them this week but they are leaders in the clubhouse. Really hoping for an LV arrival next year.
Agreed. I put in the intuition wrap liner from my full tilts and it feels like a completely different and better boot. I think Armada made a mistake with the tongue liner, there’s a lot of weird instep and sharp pressure points that is going to turn a lot of people away from this boot when trying in the shop. I think the design of the boot just does not work with tongue liners.
KimJongTrillThese boots work insanely well with an intuition wrap liner. Been on them the last two days and have had a ball. This is after trying a ton of boots this year and attempting to find a winner. Should have a few more days on them this week but they are leaders in the clubhouse. Really hoping for an LV arrival next year.
You should also experiment with adding the rear cuff support from the krypton to the armada. I added the one from my Dalbello Cabrio and it helped with having more rear support since the stock one is so short.
KimJongTrillAgreed! I yanked mine out of a krypton I was going to experiment on.
now have to replace it with a DH to sell the krypton with the liner. Thinking a 12mm in a 28 for this 27.5.
DragonSlayer7You should also experiment with adding the rear cuff support from the krypton to the armada. I added the one from my Dalbello Cabrio and it helped with having more rear support since the stock one is so short.
do you feel like the cabrio rear is too short too?
I’ve been riding the 130 for around 3 months. I agree with what everyone has said previously. I really enjoy the way the boot skis…however, I have been having major issues with bone spurs on my heels. Everytime I heavily flex the boot forwards (landing switch) it seems to slam my heels (therefore bone spurs) into the shell and it is super uncomfortable. I put it down to the way the slingshot buckle works and it pulling the heel deep into the pocket. However I’ve tried skiing with this buckle undone and it doesn’t really change anything. It’s strange because I have never had an issue with any boot, ever. My feet seem to fit everything in my last range, right out of the box. It feels like the boot fits well in every other area.
I’m thinking I could get an intuition wrap liner which will hopefully give more volume and more cushioning? Idk I’m pretty lost at this point. @
JAHBRADORI’ve been riding the 130 for around 3 months. I agree with what everyone has said previously. I really enjoy the way the boot skis…however, I have been having major issues with bone spurs on my heels. Everytime I heavily flex the boot forwards (landing switch) it seems to slam my heels (therefore bone spurs) into the shell and it is super uncomfortable. I put it down to the way the slingshot buckle works and it pulling the heel deep into the pocket. However I’ve tried skiing with this buckle undone and it doesn’t really change anything. It’s strange because I have never had an issue with any boot, ever. My feet seem to fit everything in my last range, right out of the box. It feels like the boot fits well in every other area.
I’m thinking I could get an intuition wrap liner which will hopefully give more volume and more cushioning? Idk I’m pretty lost at this point. @
Trying to get more material between your heel and the shell wall will be a big help. A firm dense donut-shaped pad on your existing liner would be the first/quicker/cheaper step before going to a different liner.
onenerdykidTrying to get more material between your heel and the shell wall will be a big help. A firm dense donut-shaped pad on your existing liner would be the first/quicker/cheaper step before going to a different liner.
I had the same exact issue, only on my right foot. Had the heel punched out in this area and it’s perfect now, didn’t lose any heel hold either. But yea you should also use an intuition wrap liner regardless. The stock liner is ass.
JAHBRADORI’ve been riding the 130 for around 3 months. I agree with what everyone has said previously. I really enjoy the way the boot skis…however, I have been having major issues with bone spurs on my heels. Everytime I heavily flex the boot forwards (landing switch) it seems to slam my heels (therefore bone spurs) into the shell and it is super uncomfortable. I put it down to the way the slingshot buckle works and it pulling the heel deep into the pocket. However I’ve tried skiing with this buckle undone and it doesn’t really change anything. It’s strange because I have never had an issue with any boot, ever. My feet seem to fit everything in my last range, right out of the box. It feels like the boot fits well in every other area.
I’m thinking I could get an intuition wrap liner which will hopefully give more volume and more cushioning? Idk I’m pretty lost at this point. @
DragonSlayer7I had the same exact issue, only on my right foot. Had the heel punched out in this area and it’s perfect now, didn’t lose any heel hold either. But yea you should also use an intuition wrap liner regardless. The stock liner is ass.
Thanks, my local bootfitter said he didn’t want to punch them, only as a ‘last resort’. But I’m beginning to realize he is a total spazz. Thanks for the reply!
@onenerdykid question about this armada boot. Is the upper and lower cuff riveted together or is it free like a normal 3 piece boot?
My complaint when I used to ski dalbello boots was the harsh bump stop of the rear cuff when landing in the backseat. The rearward flex/ then hitting the forward lean adjuster was such a bad feeling compared to a 2 peice without a walk mode where you are always anchored against the rear cuff
Do other people complain about this in cabrio boots? or was this just my dablelo lupo and krypton plus my calf shape
deadhead420@onenerdykid question about this armada boot. Is the upper and lower cuff riveted together or is it free like a normal 3 piece boot?
My complaint when I used to ski dalbello boots was the harsh bump stop of the rear cuff when landing in the backseat. The rearward flex/ then hitting the forward lean adjuster was such a bad feeling compared to a 2 peice without a walk mode where you are always anchored against the rear cuff
Do other people complain about this in cabrio boots? or was this just my dablelo lupo and krypton plus my calf shape
The cuff is connected to the shell at the rear spine, just like a 2-piece alpine boot. This is primarily where the boot derives its progressive flex from.
onenerdykidThe cuff is connected to the shell at the rear spine, just like a 2-piece alpine boot. This is primarily where the boot derives its progressive flex from.
Oh damm that’s sick. Definitely changes my opinion of that boot. I’d like to try it now
