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They released flexes from 90 to 130. looks like you can also use it for touring. Will this boot feel good with that middle buckle, idk about these boots. Yes they instantly sold out.
CheecksThey released flexes from 90 to 130. looks like you can also use it for touring. Will this boot feel good with that middle buckle, idk about these boots. Yes they instantly sold out.
blister podcast says its basically hawx prime last. cringe. prime last is too large on lateral side of foot, and last is too abducted in relation to the lugs. leave that shit to fischer.
the hybrid construction makes alot of sense to bolt the spine and use tongue. really cool. can't wait to get it but i have to wait till next season for 25.5 :(
Why does the 130 and 110 come with a cam style strap (pictured on their site) but the 120, 100, and 90 don't. I get maybe the lower flexes but why not put it on the 120?
Classic bs of cutting quality as the flex decreases. There is also no real explanation as to how the boot solves "poor heel hold, shin and toe bang, liner discomfort, a lack of direct and precise steering, and continual compromises between optimizing performance and comfort". Probably because it doesn't.
Going off of other comments in this thread, if it has the same shell fit to the hawx prime, and you like that boot, why not just buy the atomics? They can be had for less than half the price of the Armadas.
PoikenzWhy does the 130 and 110 come with a cam style strap (pictured on their site) but the 120, 100, and 90 don't. I get maybe the lower flexes but why not put it on the 120?
Classic bs of cutting quality as the flex decreases. There is also no real explanation as to how the boot solves "poor heel hold, shin and toe bang, liner discomfort, a lack of direct and precise steering, and continual compromises between optimizing performance and comfort". Probably because it doesn't.
Going off of other comments in this thread, if it has the same shell fit to the hawx prime, and you like that boot, why not just buy the atomics? They can be had for less than half the price of the Armadas.
PoikenzWhy does the 130 and 110 come with a cam style strap (pictured on their site) but the 120, 100, and 90 don't. I get maybe the lower flexes but why not put it on the 120?
Classic bs of cutting quality as the flex decreases. There is also no real explanation as to how the boot solves "poor heel hold, shin and toe bang, liner discomfort, a lack of direct and precise steering, and continual compromises between optimizing performance and comfort". Probably because it doesn't.
Going off of other comments in this thread, if it has the same shell fit to the hawx prime, and you like that boot, why not just buy the atomics? They can be had for less than half the price of the Armadas.
to be fair its totally different construction than the prime. bolted spine, tongue combo is very unique, and the heel lock buckle is great idea because prime is pretty loose in heel. It'll be better than prime 100%... that exact area where you see the orange heel cable buckle, is too large volume in the prime... its a perfect location for the buckle on a prime last.
**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2025 at 6:36:31pm
Not yet, MV made the most sense to start with. To make a proper LV is another 1mil in molds unfortunately. I will say though, I personally have always skied LV boots and i have no problem in the MV.....that's just me though.
PoikenzClassic bs of cutting quality as the flex decreases.
I hate this so much. I'm small and light, no matter how hard I ski I just don't need the worlds stiffest boots all the time. That doesn't mean I want worse softer boots though.
a_pla5tic_bagI hate this so much. I'm small and light, no matter how hard I ski I just don't need the worlds stiffest boots all the time. That doesn't mean I want worse softer boots though.
if you listen to the blister pod, they designed the 110 for this specific reason. it has the pro liner and real straps for team riders who wanted softer flex but full feature boot.
**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2025 at 7:48:42pm
How is that buckle any different than delbello's buckle? It is in the same location at the same angle and both companies claim the same advantage for having the buckle there. Having tried dalbello's, in my own experience I can say thay the buckle only works if the shell fits and provides proper heel hold for your foot. And on to anecdotal experiences, why even include the second paragraph? If you buy into that marketing, you've never skied and/or are extremely gullible.
scratchskier321to be fair its totally different construction than the prime. bolted spine, tongue combo is very unique, and the heel lock buckle is great idea because prime is pretty loose in heel. It'll be better than prime 100%... that exact area where you see the orange heel cable buckle, is too large volume in the prime... its a perfect location for the buckle on a prime last.
**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2025 at 6:36:31pm
The flex combo is intriguing. I'm interested to hear if it provides any noticeable difference and what the testing process involved.
PoikenzHow is that buckle any different than delbello's buckle? It is in the same location at the same angle and both companies claim the same advantage for having the buckle there. Having tried dalbello's, in my own experience I can say thay the buckle only works if the shell fits and provides proper heel hold for your foot. And on to anecdotal experiences, why even include the second paragraph? If you buy into that marketing, you've never skied and/or are extremely gullible.
The flex combo is intriguing. I'm interested to hear if it provides any noticeable difference and what the testing process involved.
The Dabello doesn’t have the cable system that wraps around the heel like the armada boot. So different systems which equal to different results.
the second paragraph was from
someone who’s actually used and tested the boots. So pretty relevant as opposed to your opinion while you never tested let alone even touched the boots. That’s why I included the link of the tester.
PartyBullshiitThe Dabello doesn’t have the cable system that wraps around the heel like the armada boot. So different systems which equal to different results.
the second paragraph was from
someone who’s actually used and tested the boots. So pretty relevant as opposed to your opinion while you never tested let alone even touched the boots. That’s why I included the link of the tester.
The angle that the cable gives the buckle will yield a similar result, I can't really see it doing anything special.
Again, a single tester's experience, unless you know that they have a very similar foot to yours, is worthless.
I'm just trying to say that if the boot works for people that is great, but they should stop pretending it's something special and not just another boot with mildly interesting quirks.
scratchskier321blister podcast says its basically hawx prime last. cringe. prime last is too large on lateral side of foot, and last is too abducted in relation to the lugs. leave that shit to fischer.
It does have the same 2.5mm of abduction, pivoting from the heel (not from the midfoot like Fischer, which is a very noticeable difference. That means only the forefoot moves 2.5mm, which is honestly not a lot. FYI - more than half of the brands do this with their all mountain boots too. It's far more common than you think.
PoikenzWhy does the 130 and 110 come with a cam style strap (pictured on their site) but the 120, 100, and 90 don't. I get maybe the lower flexes but why not put it on the 120?
Classic bs of cutting quality as the flex decreases. There is also no real explanation as to how the boot solves "poor heel hold, shin and toe bang, liner discomfort, a lack of direct and precise steering, and continual compromises between optimizing performance and comfort". Probably because it doesn't.
a_pla5tic_bagI hate this so much. I'm small and light, no matter how hard I ski I just don't need the worlds stiffest boots all the time. That doesn't mean I want worse softer boots though.
I think you guys should listen to Blister's podcast with the Armada guys. They definitely address this and have a solution specifically for you.
The ultimate reality is that $800 110 flex boots simply don't sell. Atomic tried this about five years ago and retailers didn't buy into it. The ski industry is unfortunately beholden to having different price points and brands create boots based on those price points. I honestly wish it wasn't the case, for the reasons you mention, but doing something counter to that is normally just pissing into the wind.
PoikenzHow is that buckle any different than delbello's buckle? It is in the same location at the same angle and both companies claim the same advantage for having the buckle there. Having tried dalbello's, in my own experience I can say thay the buckle only works if the shell fits and provides proper heel hold for your foot. And on to anecdotal experiences, why even include the second paragraph? If you buy into that marketing, you've never skied and/or are extremely gullible.
The Slingshot buckle is honestly a pretty cool idea in the cabrio world:
The main lever on the lateral side of the boot pulls on the shell from two anchor points on each side of the foot. This means it wraps the shell (not the cuff over the shell) down around the ankle and HIP (heel-to-instep perimeter). Compared to the cabrio boots we tested, this offered significantly more heel & ankle retention.
OldirtybransfordNot yet, MV made the most sense to start with. To make a proper LV is another 1mil in molds unfortunately. I will say though, I personally have always skied LV boots and i have no problem in the MV.....that's just me though.
Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce Bransford Briggs, the global product manager of Armada ski boots.
Let me get this straight. No walk mode and no tech insert at the back, Really having a hard time justifying why anyone would buy this over the Dalbello Cabro range.
mackcampLet me get this straight. No walk mode and no tech insert at the back, Really having a hard time justifying why anyone would buy this over the Dalbello Cabro range.
mackcampLet me get this straight. No walk mode and no tech insert at the back, Really having a hard time justifying why anyone would buy this over the Dalbello Cabro range.
In addition to how the boot might fit them, the features you just described would be reasons that someone buys this boot instead of a Dalbello Cabrio.
xonskier78Nah I remember buying my atomics 115 for 400$ while the 130 costed around 550$...
Spot on! Let’s be honest most everyone on here doesn’t pay full retail for gear, nothing wrong with that by any means! I get it skiings expensive but I can truthfully say all the high end boots I have on the wall at the shop I work at are minimum $750 and most the all the customers that come in won’t bat a eye when getting a boot that costs that much and that’ll last them and is fitted correctly. It’s 2025 this is the new normal for the industry.
Also huge ups @onenerdykid on helping with your insanely knowledgeable input and advice on this boot!! It came out fuckin perfect imo! The best fitting cabrio boot outta the box for my foot!!
onenerdykidI think you guys should listen to Blister's podcast with the Armada guys. They definitely address this and have a solution specifically for you.
The ultimate reality is that $800 110 flex boots simply don't sell. Atomic tried this about five years ago and retailers didn't buy into it. The ski industry is unfortunately beholden to having different price points and brands create boots based on those price points. I honestly wish it wasn't the case, for the reasons you mention, but doing something counter to that is normally just pissing into the wind.
How much cheaper is it to produce multiple different liners and straps across a boot line versus having it all the same? Are you implying that only the higher end boots are making money and the lower flex boots are priced closer to cost just to make retailers happy?
PoikenzHow much cheaper is it to produce multiple different liners and straps across a boot line versus having it all the same? Are you implying that only the higher end boots are making money and the lower flex boots are priced closer to cost just to make retailers happy?
It's way cheaper to produce different levels of liners, different levels of power straps, have different levels of plastics, etc. than try to get all of your unit volume behind one construction. Ski boot brands (especially this project) produce so few units that when we're buying raw materials, the volume simply isn't there to lower the cost enough. Brands need to make different levels of liners, straps, etc. to lower their bill of materials (BOM) enough in order to be profitable at certain price points. Sometimes a brand might make a move with a super feature rich boot at a lower price point to take market share away from another brand, but you can't do that all the time, you'll just go out of business.
onenerdykidI think you guys should listen to Blister's podcast with the Armada guys. They definitely address this and have a solution specifically for you.
The ultimate reality is that $800 110 flex boots simply don't sell. Atomic tried this about five years ago and retailers didn't buy into it. The ski industry is unfortunately beholden to having different price points and brands create boots based on those price points. I honestly wish it wasn't the case, for the reasons you mention, but doing something counter to that is normally just pissing into the wind.
Was kinda interesting, but I find Ellsworth… painful to listen to. Also “dampening”? If these boys be talking about bikes you should maybe learn them a bit ;)
onenerdykidIt does have the same 2.5mm of abduction, pivoting from the heel (not from the midfoot like Fischer, which is a very noticeable difference. That means only the forefoot moves 2.5mm, which is honestly not a lot. FYI - more than half of the brands do this with their all mountain boots too. It's far more common than you think.
this is why I like dalbello DS, Cabrio, and Lange Shadow the lasts are straight away and don't block out the 1st met and big toe. Prime skis incredible until your tips feel they're gonna cross. The abducted last, and outward pointed hinges for the cuff are such a brutal combo, made for pizza skiing.
scratchskier321this is why I like dalbello DS, Cabrio, and Lange Shadow the lasts are straight away and don't block out the 1st met and big toe. Prime skis incredible until your tips feel they're gonna cross. The abducted last, and outward pointed hinges for the cuff are such a brutal combo, made for pizza skiing.
Don't tell that to our World Cup speed athletes who get their boots abducted ;)
No-Skill-PhilWas kinda interesting, but I find Ellsworth… painful to listen to. Also “dampening”? If these boys be talking about bikes you should maybe learn them a bit ;)
onenerdykidI can tell you are in Vital MTB's forums too haha
I may or may not be :) but I’ve had to know the correct word for study and work, forum meme or not. It’s a bit like “could care less”, just a bit annoying.
PoikenzHow much cheaper is it to produce multiple different liners and straps across a boot line versus having it all the same? Are you implying that only the higher end boots are making money and the lower flex boots are priced closer to cost just to make retailers happy?
correct, its not that much cheaper. the costs to produce 100 flex to 130 flex are similar. After molds, like $70 to produce 100 flex and $90 to produce a 130 flex. It's a value pricing strategy to drive margins. The 130 flex isn't that expensive to make, but they know 130 skiers are the only ones who will pay $800+ for a boot. They make the most money on a 130 sale, and the least on a 90-100 sale.
scratchskier321correct, its not that much cheaper. the costs to produce 100 flex to 130 flex are similar. After molds, like $70 to produce 100 flex and $90 to produce a 130 flex. It's a value pricing strategy to drive margins. The 130 flex isn't that expensive to make, but they know 130 skiers are the only ones who will pay $800+ for a boot. They make the most money on a 130 sale, and the least on a 90-100 sale.
Sorry, I don't know where you got your information from, but that's just not correct. The 130 is by FAR more expensive than a 100 and if a brand is doing their job correctly, the BOMs of different models reflects this. It's true that a 130 makes more money than a 90, which you would get if both boots had the same profit margin.
onenerdykidSorry, I don't know where you got your information from, but that's just not correct. The 130 is by FAR more expensive than a 100 and if a brand is doing their job correctly, the BOMs of different models reflects this. It's true that a 130 makes more money than a 90, which you would get if both boots had the same profit margin.
my post says the 130 is more expensive to make, idk what your reading. if the margin on all the flexes were actually equal you'd see like $600 110 $620 120 $640 130, if even. the stronger durometer TPU and a chinese power strap with a flip cinch is not much more expensive than 110 durometer TPU and velcro.
**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2025 at 6:28:16pm
scratchskier321my post says the 130 is more expensive to make, idk what your reading. if the margin on all the flexes were actually equal you'd see like $600 110 $620 120 $640 130, if even. the stronger durometer TPU and a chinese power strap with a flip cinch is not much more expensive than 110 durometer TPU and velcro.
**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2025 at 6:28:16pm
Yeah, I think we may be talking past one another a bit here. Let me start over - what I am saying is that if the profit margin is equal on each level of boot, then you don't get the price points you listed- at least not where I work.
Top end PU is 4x the cost of the lowest end PU, lowest end PU is about double the cost of PP plastic. A nice cam strap is about 5x the cost of a basic velcro one. Our Mimic Platinum liner is almost 3x times the cost of a Bronze. Using screwed hardware isn't much more expensive than rivets, but the labor cost associated with screwed hardware is astronomically more expensive. And so on, and so on. If I built a 110 level boot with all the same trimmings as the 130 but just used softer plastic, then the cost/retail of the boots would be the same. But, since I (unfortunately) need to build the 110 to a lower price point, I need to use more cost effective versions of the boot's plastic, liner construction, power strap, fixation hardware, boot board, and in some cases buckle construction in order to appease the business side of the business.
onenerdykidYeah, I think we may be talking past one another a bit here. Let me start over - what I am saying is that if the profit margin is equal on each level of boot, then you don't get the price points you listed- at least not where I work.
Top end PU is 4x the cost of the lowest end PU, lowest end PU is about double the cost of PP plastic. A nice cam strap is about 5x the cost of a basic velcro one. Our Mimic Platinum liner is almost 3x times the cost of a Bronze. Using screwed hardware isn't much more expensive than rivets, but the labor cost associated with screwed hardware is astronomically more expensive. And so on, and so on. If I built a 110 level boot with all the same trimmings as the 130 but just used softer plastic, then the cost/retail of the boots would be the same. But, since I (unfortunately) need to build the 110 to a lower price point, I need to use more cost effective versions of the boot's plastic, liner construction, power strap, fixation hardware, boot board, and in some cases buckle construction in order to appease the business side of the business.
This all being the case, if I want the features that only stiffer flexes offer, should I be looking for a stiff boot with said features and attempt to make it softer or do I just settle on a softer boot and accept that I'm not getting everything a 130+ flex boot has to offer?
a_pla5tic_bagThis all being the case, if I want the features that only stiffer flexes offer, should I be looking for a stiff boot with said features and attempt to make it softer or do I just settle on a softer boot and accept that I'm not getting everything a 130+ flex boot has to offer?
Depends on the boot. Not all boots are built to be softened and some just don't like it. Sometimes it's quite difficult to get a 130 soft enough to flex/behave like 110 - that's a big jump. With other boots (certain 3-piece boots), it can be a lot easier by just swapping out the tongue. It also depends what you plan on keeping with the boot - if you're going to ditch the stock liner for an aftermarket something and swap the power strap to a booster-style one, then go for the 110.
