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PeppermillRenoIt would be beyond ironic if a skiing company was the one that tipped the modern corporate workplace model where CEOs make millions and the people doing the actual work make nothing.
I'm on the side of the patrollers and don't really give a fuck about some rich fucks spending $1000/night to stay in PC over the holidays but what about the lifties that get sent home and don't get a paycheck bc that lift doesn't spin? Bartenders who get no tips? Customers and other Fail employees get fucked over a lot more in this than Rob Katz who has already pocketed tens of millions from the ski industry.
100% vail resorts needs to go bankrupt. fuck the suits
Lenny-I've never understood why massive underground parking garages aren't common at large resorts.
Ski towns feel like the one part of America that like to pretend public transport is good.
Probably gets voted down just like affordable housing. I'm sure eheath wouldn't be willing to deal with the risk of more traffic (well there would be less bc no one is rushing to get a spot) for easier parking.
Can't have anything nice anymore.
Go read any Facebook posts comments most people are just going off about how they can't afford rent and food and just the thought of a hobby is out of reach.
The crazy thing is no one even cares about the customers here even fellow skiers cheer on other skiers being treated like shit and laugh at people in 2 hour lift lines. I'm guilty of it.
The patrollers have also done Fail a favor and distracted everyone from all the lift malfunctions which are their fault lol. People are just happy to see an evil corporation on their back foot for once.
PeppermillRenoThanks. I fucked all the wedding pictures up by being in them should have made sure there were some of just her.
Epic has been a good fit as half of the season will be spent skiing backwards on a green while she comes down in her pizza and then I grab my turns after 2. We've graduated magic carpets though.
theabortionatorYeah they famously care about wages and rights
scratchskier321all the employees of the LIV tour make hekka cash
Can confirm as my gf is the gm of a property owned by saudis and emratis they don’t give a flying fuck about the wages of the workers. Hell the property actual needs work and they don’t give a fuck about that because the property as is makes a profit every year. So as far as they’re concerned be damned with the upgrades needed, and we’re talking 5 diamond properties.
PartyBullshiitCan confirm as my gf is the gm of a property owned by saudis and emratis they don’t give a flying fuck about the wages of the workers. Hell the property actual needs work and they don’t give a fuck about that because the property as is makes a profit every year. So as far as they’re concerned be damned with the upgrades needed, and we’re talking 5 diamond properties.
then maybe patrol should get back to work. PIF is who is buying stuff this large. vail resorts like 6 billion market cap. PIF can buy easy.
PeppermillRenoProbably gets voted down just like affordable housing. I'm sure eheath wouldn't be willing to deal with the risk of more traffic (well there would be less bc no one is rushing to get a spot) for easier parking.
Can't have anything nice anymore.
Go read any Facebook posts comments most people are just going off about how they can't afford rent and food and just the thought of a hobby is out of reach.
The crazy thing is no one even cares about the customers here even fellow skiers cheer on other skiers being treated like shit and laugh at people in 2 hour lift lines. I'm guilty of it.
The patrollers have also done Fail a favor and distracted everyone from all the lift malfunctions which are their fault lol. People are just happy to see an evil corporation on their back foot for once.
Paid parking and traffic have nothing to do with affordable housing and employees. Jesus Christ
Curious about what ski patrol makes at independent resorts? I keep seeing people saying to support independent resorts but I gotta think that their patrollers are probably paid worse than the resorts on the mega passes.
TOAST.Curious about what ski patrol makes at independent resorts? I keep seeing people saying to support independent resorts but I gotta think that their patrollers are probably paid worse than the resorts on the mega passes.
Not sure. Def still mtns paying cat ops and psrk crew 12 though. At least the cost of living in a lot of those places is massively cheaper.
I'm sure a lot of independents have gone up in mtn ish towns though with having to compete with VR and Alterra doing baseline 20.
I mean fuck, I almost took a part time job at Taco Bell in Tahoe cause it was down the street and starting people at $17(in 2017)
I get that a lot of patrollers stay at the one mtn for a long time, but it'd be pretty tough to love in mtn town USA on much less than that.
TOAST.Curious about what ski patrol makes at independent resorts? I keep seeing people saying to support independent resorts but I gotta think that their patrollers are probably paid worse than the resorts on the mega passes.
$19.50 to $22 if you're lucky or have prior experience for mine at least. On top of being the resorts red headed stepchild by not being a profit center and the necessary evil, our labor budgets gets especially fucked with and are not allowed OT, get sent home early around 1pm or come in around noon, and sit extremely thin with coverage most of the time if we don't have volunteers come into help.
Medical supplies constantly run out and we discover that some of our critical equipment isnt properly functional/broken, or hasn't been replaced in years but you just roll with the punches and improvise.
On top of that, management/ownerships focus is mostly a risk-aversive approach and preventing lawsuits instead of providing patient care and getting people off the hill because of precious insurance prices not going up. Or like places with avalanche terrain (like PC), keeping people from not dying or getting others killed.
Like I said before, this is going to scare the entire industry to its core and it already has as we've seen in the past two weeks. And I don't want to hear "just get a better job" because that's just a sad excuse for mismanagement and greed. I do intend on pursuing legitimate first responder career opportunities but from what I've seen so far, this industry is so fucking crooked from both indys and megas alike and it's great to see this disruption despite people getting legitimately hurt and being blown off by pretend patrollers.
**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2025 at 6:12:22pm
GayWolf420$19.50 to $22 if you're lucky or have prior experience for mine at least. On top of being the resorts red headed stepchild by not being a profit center and the necessary evil, our labor budgets gets especially fucked with and are not allowed OT, get sent home early around 1pm or come in around noon, and sit extremely thin with coverage most of the time if we don't have volunteers come into help.
Medical supplies constantly run out and we discover that some of our critical equipment isnt properly functional/broken, or hasn't been replaced in years but you just roll with the punches and improvise.
On top of that, management/ownerships focus is mostly a risk-aversive approach and preventing lawsuits instead of providing patient care and getting people off the hill because of precious insurance prices not going up. Or like places with avalanche terrain (like PC), keeping people from not dying or getting others killed.
Like I said before, this is going to scare the entire industry to its core and it already has as we've seen in the past two weeks. And I don't want to hear "just get a better job" because that's just a sad excuse for mismanagement and greed. I do intend on pursuing legitimate first responder career opportunities but from what I've seen so far, this industry is so fucking crooked from both indys and megas alike and it's great to see this disruption despite people getting legitimately hurt and being blown off by pretend patrollers.
**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2025 at 6:12:22pm
For sure man. It's tough but it's gotten a lot better. Also ski patrol and pretty much any job you can get some cool on the job training for new skills.
Big mtn ski patrol deserve respect. Shit is gnarly. I watched them blow the biggest avy Ive ever seen at Crystal a couple years ago. Seen them rope sleds through trees on steep steep runs. They're sick
theabortionatorFor sure man. It's tough but it's gotten a lot better. Also ski patrol and pretty much any job you can get some cool on the job training for new skills.
Big mtn ski patrol deserve respect. Shit is gnarly. I watched them blow the biggest avy Ive ever seen at Crystal a couple years ago. Seen them rope sleds through trees on steep steep runs. They're sick
Yeah not trying to be biased or anything but some of the people I've worked with so far are legitimate heroes who are extremely smart and tactful and most importantly great human beings. Anyone willing to get up to the mountain in the early morning in heinous weather conditions to go mitigate life-or-death avalanche conditions deserves a lot more than a pay raise in my opinion but that's neither here nor there.
Also worth noting. I spoke with my assistant director today in the morning about our ongoing struggles (30+ years spent in CO doing snow safety and other things). He said point blank that fucking with budgets, pay, and other things will not only impact mountain operations as a whole but will increase liability claims in the long run. So really it just hurts the overall bottom line as a whole because you have untrained staff dealing with unrealistic demands which means it's not just if you have to hand over a check, it's how many zeros are gonna be at the end of it. All I'm saying is there needs to be a perfect balance.
And for people who are on the side of "Just get a better job" or "Get back to work". Picture your loved one or best friend in their worst moment of their lives either critically injured or buried in a slide. Do you want someone who is poorly trained and doesn't give a shit because they make $600/day and wear a cool red coat working on your family members/friends or would you rather someone skilled, dedicated, and genuinely cares about them getting off the hill safe and to higher levels of care? If your first choice is the first answer then honestly you lack empathy and are probably just a shitty human being.
GayWolf420And for people who are on the side of "Just get a better job" or "Get back to work". Picture your loved one or best friend in their worst moment of their lives either critically injured or buried in a slide. Do you want someone who is poorly trained and doesn't give a shit because they make $600/day and wear a cool red coat working on your family members/friends or would you rather someone skilled, dedicated, and genuinely cares about them getting off the hill safe and to higher levels of care? If your first choice is the first answer then honestly you lack empathy and are probably just a shitty human being.
Not really sure what you're suggesting. Are you saying it's bad for them to get paid more or are you talking about the rando scabs coming in for $$$?
theabortionatorNot really sure what you're suggesting. Are you saying it's bad for them to get paid more or are you talking about the rando scabs coming in for $$$?
eheathOnly thing I've seen so far is the agreement benefits both parties, I'm sure details will come out soon.
I heard they're dedicated to making it up to the skiers that were fucked over and will earn their raise by reopening the gates by 9990. Can you confirm this rumor?
PeppermillRenoI heard they're dedicated to making it up to the skiers that were fucked over and will earn their raise by reopening the gates by 9990. Can you confirm this rumor?
You have no business skiing anything off of the Ridgeline lol
GayWolf420You have no business skiing anything off of the Ridgeline lol
Come on low angle slack country powder right next to the gates is fine I don't go out of bounds and search out the raddest lines. Half lift served half walking runs are the best.
But we can't have nice things bc once upon a time someone died.
PeppermillRenoCome on low angle slack country powder right next to the gates is fine I don't go out of bounds and search out the raddest lines. Half lift served half walking runs are the best.
But we can't have nice things bc once upon a time someone died.
Not only are you completely naive to the nuances of backcountry skiing, but you're also a huge piece of shit.
theabortionatorSo are people still anti union, anti worker in here complaining about those patrollers or saying it won't work?
Crickets
I mean you are more important to a mountain than 90% of rank and file patrollers. Maybe not the lead ones or key objective bomb guys but the other ones of course.
Build parks. Train everyone that is new how to build parks. Drive the cats and groom. Make snow. Etc. Every hill has max 1-2 guys who can do what you do.
PeppermillRenoI mean you are more important to a mountain than 90% of rank and file patrollers. Maybe not the lead ones or key objective bomb guys but the other ones of course.
Build parks. Train everyone that is new how to build parks. Drive the cats and groom. Make snow. Etc. Every hill has max 1-2 guys who can do what you do.
Yeah I've had my clashed with patrol as a ride obviously and as a employee.
That said I remember buttermilk 16. Guy got just enough speed on the hogh side of a flat spot. Impaled himself on a tree. Done. Blead out on the scene. We were alowed to go up the lift cause xgames build. But they were shoveling bloody snow into trash bags. It was roght under the lift.
I've def seen some patrol pull some lazy asshole bullshit but at the end of the day, i don't have to cart bodies down or shovel their blood. I guess i still have a hit or miss relationship but I've seen enough gnar shit i give them a pass more.
Also being in high avy danger spots ive seen them set off some slides that would have legit smoked many families if not triggered properly.
Ski patrol can be dicks, they can be cool, but I've known enough and seen enough shit that I'm pretty on board with them. Also many of them fucking shred hard
je_t.aime_canard
No health insurance stipend, but a solid average pay rise
Nice! congrats to them. It'd be good to see basic health packages, but I'm assuming Vail is probably still keeping them within the bracket that allows for the ACA to apply for free, so why bother. If not, that would be a good next effort.
theabortionatorSo are people still anti union, anti worker in here complaining about those patrollers or saying it won't work?
Crickets
It's so weird seeing this coming from a bunch of skibums like, collective bargaining power is extremely capitalist, and as a capitalist, I want to see optimal outcomes for workers and for companies in a sustainable and long term way. What's not to love? Work is work - someone's willing to pay you for for some exchange of labor. All of this "good work/hard work/skilled work/unskilled work" talk is just propaganda from one side or another to gain a competitive edge. It's not real.
PeppermillRenoI mean you are more important to a mountain than 90% of rank and file patrollers. Maybe not the lead ones or key objective bomb guys but the other ones of course.
Build parks. Train everyone that is new how to build parks. Drive the cats and groom. Make snow. Etc. Every hill has max 1-2 guys who can do what you do.
Arabian.Nice! congrats to them. It'd be good to see basic health packages, but I'm assuming Vail is probably still keeping them within the bracket that allows for the ACA to apply for free, so why bother. If not, that would be a good next effort.
It's so weird seeing this coming from a bunch of skibums like, collective bargaining power is extremely capitalist, and as a capitalist, I want to see optimal outcomes for workers and for companies in a sustainable and long term way. What's not to love? Work is work - someone's willing to pay you for for some exchange of labor. All of this "good work/hard work/skilled work/unskilled work" talk is just propaganda from one side or another to gain a competitive edge. It's not real.
See the above.
I hate going political but it's not surprising that the peoplewho voted for and bought merch for a guy that didn't pay his workers fell into whatever dumb bullshit time we're in now. Like cool people using the tools that have built the middle class is bad and douchebags with money that killed the middle class are good. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
Identity politics are infull effect. PS ive never liked biden and have posted as such to the stupid cunts that only have "but biden did" as a rebuttal. Trump folks are cooked though. Voting against their own lives to help a billionaire help billionaires cause elom musk sounds cool on joe rogan. Fuck, people are brilliantly ignorant
theabortionatorThat said I remember buttermilk 16. Guy got just enough speed on the hogh side of a flat spot. Impaled himself on a tree. Done. Blead out on the scene. We were alowed to go up the lift cause xgames build. But they were shoveling bloody snow into trash bags. It was roght under the lift.
Where on Buttermilk? Under summit lift? Could you pin the spot on a map? Or dig an old photo out?
Lenny-Where on Buttermilk? Under summit lift? Could you pin the spot on a map? Or dig an old photo out?
I didn't take any pics cause felt disrespectful. The main quad chair
There's a spot that get's flat them goes back to the right under the lift. Big right to left angle. Idk how but somehow kept enough speed on the high side. Was right under the lift. Bad spot and a bad day for the crew
theabortionatorSo are people still anti union, anti worker in here complaining about those patrollers or saying it won't work?
Crickets
im not antiunion or antiworker rights. as a career resort employee, i am for resorts being a unified high performing team and i still feel strongly that a holiday season strike is absolutely detrimental to accomplishing the culture they should be striving for. my fear is that strikes become more common and the impact to the workforce and employee experience is diminished. i totally agree with what they were fighting for and the desired outcome i just really dislike the tactic used. the business impact plus the increase in expense will def be felt at department level spending and not at any c suite level salaries.
Arabian.Nice! congrats to them. It'd be good to see basic health packages, but I'm assuming Vail is probably still keeping them within the bracket that allows for the ACA to apply for free, so why bother. If not, that would be a good next effort.
It's so weird seeing this coming from a bunch of skibums like, collective bargaining power is extremely capitalist, and as a capitalist, I want to see optimal outcomes for workers and for companies in a sustainable and long term way. What's not to love? Work is work - someone's willing to pay you for for some exchange of labor. All of this "good work/hard work/skilled work/unskilled work" talk is just propaganda from one side or another to gain a competitive edge. It's not real.
GayWolf420COO of PCM and currently freaking the fuck-out.
**This post was edited on Jan 10th 2025 at 12:32:55am
hahaha let her she created the situation by not treating people fairly. She's leadership - she sets the payscale for everyone as a point of policy. It's her responsibility!
Arabian.It's so weird seeing this coming from a bunch of skibums like, collective bargaining power is extremely capitalist, and as a capitalist, I want to see optimal outcomes for workers and for companies in a sustainable and long term way. What's not to love? Work is work - someone's willing to pay you for for some exchange of labor. All of this "good work/hard work/skilled work/unskilled work" talk is just propaganda from one side or another to gain a competitive edge. It's not real.
Totally agree, I don't see why someone should have to take a lower wage just because their job is considered "cool", it's still labour afterall. Fundamentally, this unskilled vs skilled labour argument is bullshit, people should be paid fairly depending on the value that they provide to a company, and I'm very glad that unions are still functioning effectively to fairly reflect this value-add.
theabortionatorI hate going political but it's not surprising that the peoplewho voted for and bought merch for a guy that didn't pay his workers fell into whatever dumb bullshit time we're in now. Like cool people using the tools that have built the middle class is bad and douchebags with money that killed the middle class are good. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
Identity politics are infull effect. PS ive never liked biden and have posted as such to the stupid cunts that only have "but biden did" as a rebuttal. Trump folks are cooked though. Voting against their own lives to help a billionaire help billionaires cause elom musk sounds cool on joe rogan. Fuck, people are brilliantly ignorant
My theory is that a lot of Americans, both in the working- and middle-class, view themselves as "temporarily hindered millionaires", and that by voting for higher taxes for the top 1% of the 1%, they're actually voting against their own interests when they inevitably become UHWIs. Unfortunately for them, they won't become wealthy, and all they are doing is reducing social assistance for themselves and deceasing their QOL.
partyandBSim not antiunion or antiworker rights. as a career resort employee, i am for resorts being a unified high performing team and i still feel strongly that a holiday season strike is absolutely detrimental to accomplishing the culture they should be striving for. my fear is that strikes become more common and the impact to the workforce and employee experience is diminished. i totally agree with what they were fighting for and the desired outcome i just really dislike the tactic used. the business impact plus the increase in expense will def be felt at department level spending and not at any c suite level salaries.
When would an appropriate period to strike be for ski patrollers then? The point of a strike is it's meant to prove the value of the labour that they provide, that's why train strikes in the UK are such a pain in the arse, because they bring the country to it's knees and are therefore resolved very quickly. If the ski patrollers were to strike in the summer they'd be largely ignored, because who tf cares if 0% of pistes are open in August.
As for the impact on budget, frankly that's not the fault of the patrollers, it's not on them to worry about how to handle to books after this increased business expense, they're right to demand a better standard of living and the wages that are required for it.
