Vail(PC) versus Ski Patrol Round 2

JmckRYou don't need to know the intricacies of the UK rail system. I made a very fair point that strike action affects a lot of people, and the people striking often have little or no regard for these people's welfare. It's often an act of entitlement and greed.

As you've pointed out repeatedly, strikes have played a great part in history, but here's a newsflash for you, we don't live in the 1900s anymore and you're not being forced to go down the mines so your family doesn't die of starvation. Times have changed and there should be better ways now.

TOAST.The only people that this strike is really affecting is people wealthy enough to ski. It isn't preventing anyone from getting to work, it isn't preventing medicine being shipped from point a to point b. I can't think of a reason not to be in support of them.
In a system that investors want to see higher returns every year, which definitely involves cutting wages where possible, the workers used what leverage they have at a time to be the most impactful can't blame them for that.
Vail should have definitely invested their money into the positions that require more skill than doing a blanket minimum wage increase if they wanted to still make investors happy.

JmckRYou don't need to know the intricacies of the UK rail system. I made a very fair point that strike action affects a lot of people, and the people striking often have little or no regard for these people's welfare. It's often an act of entitlement and greed.

As you've pointed out repeatedly, strikes have played a great part in history, but here's a newsflash for you, we don't live in the 1900s anymore and you're not being forced to go down the mines so your family doesn't die of starvation. Times have changed and there should be better ways now.

JmckROn further thought I admit I hadn't considered how different the hiring process at Park City in the US compared to Canada where there is easy temporary work visas for Brits and the Australians. So maybe the supply vs demand argument isn't quite as valid there.

My main counter argument is if you don't like the salary, get a different job. Hell, I had to.

Now I'm a weekend warrior. Do i particularly like it? Nope. Could I afford to live messing around as a Ski Instructor for the next 20 years? Also nope. But that's how it is, and I never considered going on strike to fuck other people's lives up (speaking generally there, aimed at all unions) to be the morally right and effective option.

**This post was edited on Dec 28th 2024 at 9:06:10pm

SkiBum.The pictures I’ve seen online and ones sent to me are insane. Shit show is being polite hah. Also the traffic in general around town I hear is even worse then ever.

I miss living there at times. But glad I’m gone at the same time.

JmckRI guess on this occasion, it's only rich people's ski seasons who will be affected

eheathIt's Christmas of course the traffic is bad that's a hilarious thing for someone to complain about.

partyandBSyeah VR fucked up by doing $20 company wide. $20/hr at snow creek out side of kc missouri and you are livin like a king lol. they should have scaled it so that they could pay their big resorts that have a higher cost of living and have a bigger gap in skilled positions.

that being said, the wages were posted in the job descriptions and in no way a secret so people know exactly what the fuck they are signing up for. if its a big deal, get a different job lol. if the pay is better to patrol elsewhere than go there and patrol. i get they are negotiating for more and they should but this is a mockery.

mismanagement + entitlement = shit show in PC

theabortionatorThis actually isn't the case these days. Mtns are understaffed even for lifties. Mtn ops jobs even places that pay well are understaffed or struggling to find good employees.

For ski patrol knowing the terrain is pretty importamt. That takes time. Rolling in blind to a new mtn even if you're experiemce it's going to take a while to learn the terrain and the setup.

So ywah, there's supply and demand but people aren't showing up to work at ski areas, even woth improved wages.

Even relying on J1s many of the VR mtns are short lifties.

The "We give you a pass so you're living the dream" thing is dead. You can't split cheap rent in ski towns. Everything's expensive.

I don't know about amazon was just mentioning the bullshit work conditions.

Idk man. You're calling them entitled for trying to make a more liveable wage to survive? They aren't quiting. They're trying to make it work. There aren't a surplus of skilled workers waiting to fill these roles.

Just seems like you're rocking the old ski area dream. They give you a season pass so you're living the dream and should accept anything else smiling. That's bullshit imo.

Good for Ski Patrol honestly. Hating on unions, strikes, and workers in general is pretty beat imo.

foolmetwiceYupp, there’s a quote from one of the patrol supervisors, can’t find it at the moment. But basically he said, when he started patrolling at the Canyons in the 80’s (or whenever it was) he was paid $4.50 an hr and with that he could comfortably afford to rent his own place right at the base of the Canyons in the Red Pine Condominiums. He said since then patroller wages have only gone up approximately 4X while rent for the same unit has gone up 15X. The glory days of being paid shit and living easy in a ski town are gone, if they ever existed. That’s why patrol needs a raise (and frankly they deserve way more than the $23 per hour they are asking for). IMO patrol should make double what a lifty makes, so $40 an hr.

foolmetwiceImagine being upset at working people for fighting for higher wages instead of being upset at the giant corporation that pays their executives millions and charges $25 for a burger and $328 for a lift ticket, but refuses to give their professional ski patrollers a $2 raise from $21 to $23. Such a low IQ corporate bootlicker take.

partyandBSyou obviously have zero grasp on how budgeting works at the resort level. you can sight the ceo all you want but granting this will only hurt the wages and expenses of the rest of PCMR’s departments. ceo will feel zero impact to her wallet, thats for fuckin sure

since the union formed their wages have already gone up 50% they are demanding another 26.5% on current wages totaling almost $1mil added budget for 1 department. in their demand they have holiday pay listed. its a ski resort. the expectation is everyone works holidays. thats how the travel and leisure industry works. it just screams gen z entitlement to me to close down during the absolute most critical time of the year. to walk out of mediation meetings immediately after not getting what you first asked for is literally like stomping your feet out of the kitchen when dad said you have to be home by 11p when you wanted to stay at a friends house.

i cant imagine having pcmr patrol 2024 on your resume will do you any favors moving forward. they are acting as a silo’d department and adding a shit ton of stress onto thousands of other employees (who primarily make less than them).

i get advocating for yourself and i absolutely love patrollers and what they do from medical care to setting lines to guest interactions. they are held in high regard as they should be. but to shit on everyone else because your ego says you need more is just not it for me.

theabortionatorThe biggest raise they got was a company wide minimum of $20 not some raise vail gave ski patrol. Also doubt most of them are gen Z. Heavy boot licker vibes on this one. Yikes

partyandBSyou obviously have zero grasp on how budgeting works at the resort level. you can sight the ceo all you want but granting this will only hurt the wages and expenses of the rest of PCMR’s departments. ceo will feel zero impact to her wallet, thats for fuckin sure

since the union formed their wages have already gone up 50% they are demanding another 26.5% on current wages totaling almost $1mil added budget for 1 department. in their demand they have holiday pay listed. its a ski resort. the expectation is everyone works holidays. thats how the travel and leisure industry works. it just screams gen z entitlement to me to close down during the absolute most critical time of the year. to walk out of mediation meetings immediately after not getting what you first asked for is literally like stomping your feet out of the kitchen when dad said you have to be home by 11p when you wanted to stay at a friends house.

i cant imagine having pcmr patrol 2024 on your resume will do you any favors moving forward. they are acting as a silo’d department and adding a shit ton of stress onto thousands of other employees (who primarily make less than them).

i get advocating for yourself and i absolutely love patrollers and what they do from medical care to setting lines to guest interactions. they are held in high regard as they should be. but to shit on everyone else because your ego says you need more is just not it for me.

partyandBSyou obviously have zero grasp on how budgeting works at the resort level. you can sight the ceo all you want but granting this will only hurt the wages and expenses of the rest of PCMR’s departments. ceo will feel zero impact to her wallet, thats for fuckin sure

since the union formed their wages have already gone up 50% they are demanding another 26.5% on current wages totaling almost $1mil added budget for 1 department. in their demand they have holiday pay listed. its a ski resort. the expectation is everyone works holidays. thats how the travel and leisure industry works. it just screams gen z entitlement to me to close down during the absolute most critical time of the year. to walk out of mediation meetings immediately after not getting what you first asked for is literally like stomping your feet out of the kitchen when dad said you have to be home by 11p when you wanted to stay at a friends house.

i cant imagine having pcmr patrol 2024 on your resume will do you any favors moving forward. they are acting as a silo’d department and adding a shit ton of stress onto thousands of other employees (who primarily make less than them).

i get advocating for yourself and i absolutely love patrollers and what they do from medical care to setting lines to guest interactions. they are held in high regard as they should be. but to shit on everyone else because your ego says you need more is just not it for me.

corona$20/hour isn't a living wage in Park City.

partyandBSnaw from a corporate stand point, VR can get fucked. they act and operate as if they are above the industry. when everyone else is sharing info and data at nsaa they are restricted from participating and that’s bullshit.

but this strike is geared to look like they are going after the corporation but the reality is that its going impact at a much more local PC level. PCMR will be given a budget for the following year with the same dollar amount and be told to figure out the $1 million whole they have to fill. which is a pretty manageable number as pcmr is pretty massive.

i just think from a local team level, patrol is fucking everyone else on this. theres thousands of other employees there and each department is now feeling added stress because of patrol during whats already the most stressful and busiest time of year.

to me it looks like patrol walked off so they could take turns and picket a few hours each day, get gofundme money, spend the holidays with family telling them about this righteous act they are doing, celebrate new years with out having to worry about working, and avoid working the busiest time of year. its gonna be real hard to go back in and be respected by any other departments. if i was a lifty, f&b employee, ticket seller, etc. and i just had to deal with all this extra bullshit and angry guests because of 1 group, i would definitely be pissed at them. this whole thing is going to kill the team morale of the entire resort. thats why i dont like the strike. its not like i think kirsten lunch needs a fatter wallet or that i sympathize with the shareholders in any capacity.

i think the worst case is they get what they want and its now seen as a strong tool and more resorts patrols shut down resulting in a diminished resort experience for all employees across the industry leading to significant employment challenges and it takes the industry a step back. strikes are an extreme measure and they should have done it before the season started and not wait 1.5 months and fuck the whole rest of the resort.

partyandBSnaw from a corporate stand point, VR can get fucked. they act and operate as if they are above the industry. when everyone else is sharing info and data at nsaa they are restricted from participating and that’s bullshit.

but this strike is geared to look like they are going after the corporation but the reality is that its going impact at a much more local PC level. PCMR will be given a budget for the following year with the same dollar amount and be told to figure out the $1 million whole they have to fill. which is a pretty manageable number as pcmr is pretty massive.

i just think from a local team level, patrol is fucking everyone else on this. theres thousands of other employees there and each department is now feeling added stress because of patrol during whats already the most stressful and busiest time of year.

to me it looks like patrol walked off so they could take turns and picket a few hours each day, get gofundme money, spend the holidays with family telling them about this righteous act they are doing, celebrate new years with out having to worry about working, and avoid working the busiest time of year. its gonna be real hard to go back in and be respected by any other departments. if i was a lifty, f&b employee, ticket seller, etc. and i just had to deal with all this extra bullshit and angry guests because of 1 group, i would definitely be pissed at them. this whole thing is going to kill the team morale of the entire resort. thats why i dont like the strike. its not like i think kirsten lunch needs a fatter wallet or that i sympathize with the shareholders in any capacity.

i think the worst case is they get what they want and its now seen as a strong tool and more resorts patrols shut down resulting in a diminished resort experience for all employees across the industry leading to significant employment challenges and it takes the industry a step back. strikes are an extreme measure and they should have done it before the season started and not wait 1.5 months and fuck the whole rest of the resort.

foolmetwiceI am an employee at PC in a department that has been directly affected by having our hours significantly cut because of the strike. I can tell you that the vast majority of employees in my department are fully behind ski patrol and willing to make the sacrifices necessary for ski patrol to get their contract because we know that higher pay for patrol will benefit all workers in the long run. It’s called solidarity homie

StaticDemonstrably it is, as ski patrol is not staffed by zombies. It's millionaires serving billionaires in ski towns, come correct if you want to stay.

coronaYou're saying ski patrol are millionaires? Dunno how you make millions on $40k/year.

Staticstart with 1 million, and then only pay property tax and utilities

GayWolf420Idk man. I've been hearing from friends back home it's taking people an upwards of multiple hours just to get to be seen at instacares and even worse at the IHC hospital near the ice arena. Definitely not normal for locals who have been there a long time. Sure restaurants are packed and stores are picked over but it's definitely record numbers of tourists in town.

Heard it was absolute chaos today in bounds on canyons side. Poacher City all day long and shooting cracks/collapses on open terrain. If this shit doesn't get sorted out, people are going to uncessaricly get critically injured and/or killed.

**This post was edited on Dec 30th 2024 at 9:21:27pm

eheathI lived in PC for 10 years, the traffic has been bad for at least that whole time, so maybe if you compared it to 20-30 years ago, sure.

But, 248 from hwy 40 into town is backed up to the hospital every day and has been since at least 2012 same with 224 into town. The difference now is that it's happening more often than just holidays and Sundance, but it's still a pretty weak thing to complain about. I actually found in the town of PC, the traffic is all going to dv for the most part these days after they added paid parking and it makes a difference, but getting into town is still a huge bottleneck.

The issue is that tons of people commute to PC by car and by themselves, the bus system from outside of town is getting far better but is still not being used as much as it should be. PC isn't a big town, the infrastructure is made for a few thousand people, it's bound to fail when it's busy.

GayWolf420Don't disagree with you at all man. I was just pointing out that the local healthcare networks around summit and Wasatch county are getting flooded pretty bad this week and people don't want to drive down to the U. You are right about traffic. It's beside the point but the town of PC has always sat on their thumbs and have done nothing to improve the infrastructure of the town. It's wild that 224 and 248 is still the same shitshow as it was when I was in HS there lol. At least Sundance isn't a thing anymore

**This post was edited on Dec 31st 2024 at 7:00:58pm

**This post was edited on Dec 31st 2024 at 7:01:20pm

eheathOh i thought you were talking about traffic by the hospital, not surprising that the hospital is busy so many people live around PC now.

The town of PC is running things exactly how they want, they have been shutting down extra lanes and massive changes because they are pushing public transit. Tbh theyre doing it right, allowing the access of more cars into an area where we can't make it larger (old town, main st, dv) is the wrong idea, people need to stop driving into town.

The traffic would be far better if the majority of people coming into PC for the day took public transit from Kimball or Richardsons flat. I think the town will push for this change vs making the roads bigger.

And wdym no more Sundance? That's just a rumor for now, it's happening this year for sure.

GayWolf420Ah shit excuse me for being retarded. I thought it was moving to Boulder.

Also always felt the bus system was the way to go. Lack of employee shuttles is what I hated when working at PCMR too, having to park at the Munchkin lot behind Windy Ridge Cafe. Also quicker to take the bus back from bottom of town lift to PCMR base too.

DrailLol. Thank you NS for the confirmation as to why I don't even think about this place anymore. Was talking with my wife about the Park City situation and came here to see what y'all saying just to find a argument. I was a kid once, I get the whole angsty 'fuck patrol' mentality but like no.

To you guys still here (abortionstor, eheath, and others...) why the heck you bothering to engage with these kids? If you still enjoy being active on the forums, cool, I guess. Keep your tips up.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go hang out with my wife, take tomorrow off to deal with old ass hangover, then go skiing Thuraday and go do a bunch of old new school shit in the Park. Huntony's, Phil grabs, fuck... I might regret it, but if it's not fast light I might try to pull a d-spin from my bag.

DrailLol. Thank you NS for the confirmation as to why I don't even think about this place anymore. Was talking with my wife about the Park City situation and came here to see what y'all saying just to find a argument. I was a kid once, I get the whole angsty 'fuck patrol' mentality but like no.

To you guys still here (abortionstor, eheath, and others...) why the heck you bothering to engage with these kids? If you still enjoy being active on the forums, cool, I guess. Keep your tips up.

Side note: had some fun and looked into the window price of a day ticket tomorrow and in Canadian $:
Whistler: $329
Park City: $470
Vail: $472

Besides the obvious, the fact that Vail has shown their true colours with how they are treating Park City ski patrol should have any real skier have a very easy decision to never give Vail a dollar ever again.

Eheath, I know you are very connected to Park City, and have been since well before Vail came around, but what do you have a closer connection to? Skiing, or park city? This is assuming you're still there. I haven't been around this place for a while and also didn't really read too much of this thread, just enough to see that you're engaging with children.

Vail should be the current kids generations FIS after this.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go hang out with my wife, take tomorrow off to deal with old ass hangover, then go skiing Thuraday and go do a bunch of old new school shit in the Park. Huntony's, Phil grabs, fuck... I might regret it, but if it's not fast light I might try to pull a d-spin from my bag.

PeppermillRenoFail sucks but all these hills in the western US are way over staffed with patrol and they take forever to open terrain after storms. The patrollers at PC won't even open the 9990 gates anymore their permanently closed.


We need the European model where your on your own apart from paying for a helicopter ride to the nearest hospital if you fuck up. Or let J1s do the job.

I'd rather snowmakers or lifties or groomers get the raise you can probably staff patrol with volunteers who just want a free pass.

eheathGood thing nobody listens to anything you say

PeppermillRenoYeah patrollers taking their sweet time to open terrain while they do multiple laps is awesome. We know you can't afford to ski in Europe.

The PC ones closed the gates by 9990 permanently they should be offering to take pay cuts.

GayWolf420Your entitlement is off the charts. If you're so pissed off about your precious lil pow turns, then go run the routes yourself. (But you'd probably trigger something and get caught and carried)

GayWolf420Your entitlement is off the charts. If you're so pissed off about your precious lil pow turns, then go run the routes yourself. (But you'd probably trigger something and get caught and carried)

eheathDude doesn't know how to ski anything but hard pack, he's a certified kook.

PeppermillRenoNot really. They should have gotten the lifties groomers and snowmakers to strike with them and closed the entire mountain.

Maybe once they get their raise they'll open up the 9990 gates?

My wife is obsessed with the Epic app and thinks everything looks so cool I'd rather bounce around and do Ikon or go back to the NH pass but I think she's going to want to always re up.

PeppermillRenoYou defended paid parking for the last few years and Fail in general. Riding the bandwagon on this one of course but I'm sure you'll be back to simping for them soon enough.

Patrollers will get what they want, Fail management are still millionaires, burgers will still be $25 nothings changing other than customers getting fucked. PC is like the last place on the Epic I want to visit this year even before this. More people will just buy Ikon now.

**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2025 at 10:50:54pm

GayWolf420You're wife sounds hot tbh

eheathPaid parking is one of the best things they've done, it's slightly inconvenient but it has absolutely improved traffic in the town of Park City.

PeppermillRenoPoor people skiing less even after buying a pass is a good thing bc the traffic is better? That's ridiculous Fail could use the profits and just build a garage that won't fill up right when lifts open.

You probably think LCC should do a Gondola over widening the road and expanding the lots as well.

I hope the Patrollers win and wish that lower rung employees had gone on strike too and really fucked Fail who knows this might be the tip of the iceberg and evil corporations realize they can't pay the actual workers peanuts while the CEOs get millions. That would be great. But that said the European model to ski resort operations is superior in every way and it's not debatable.

PeppermillRenoPoor people skiing less even after buying a pass is a good thing bc the traffic is better? That's ridiculous Fail could use the profits and just build a garage that won't fill up right when lifts open.

You probably think LCC should do a Gondola over widening the road and expanding the lots as well.

scratchskier321we need to stop pretending like skiing is soccer. It is an elitist sport that requires a lot of money to participate.