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.MASSHOLE.Just going to point out a pretty big fallacy here.
School systems, resources, etc. - you do realize immigrants pay taxes right?
Income tax - An estimated 50% of undocumented immigrants use an ITIN and file annual tax returns. Furthermore, if they receive a paycheck they have income deducted through state and federal taxes.
Sales tax - Every time an undocumented immigrant purchases an item through a legitimate storefront, they pay sales taxes, just like you and me.
Excise tax - Same as above, if they have a registered vehicle, they pay an excise tax.
Property tax - Story continues.
Despite all of this, they are unable to draw upon Medicare, Social Security, or Unemployment Insurance.
So many (I'd argue majority) of immigrants pay taxes to the United States government but are unable to draw upon key social programs.
So the fact of the matter is, if they're paying taxes, they're paying for their school system.
And it's incredibly racist to think that it's only undocumented immigrants who require teachers to learn Spanish. There are many legal immigrants here who benefit from teachers being fluent in Spanish as well as English.
And if you want to complain about veterans and homelessness, I'd recommend you compare what the Democrats and GOP do for those two items.
Neither are perfect, but one tends to stonewall reform a lot more than the other.
**This post was edited on Nov 7th 2024 at 3:27:17pm
I keep forgetting the Democratic Party that used to hate large corporations loves them now. Yea keep letting in immigrants so these giant corporations don't have to pay Americans a normal salary and instead can find illegal immigrants to give them pennies on the dollar!
"Well Americans don't want those Jobs anyway" hmm I think I remember a time when millions weren't pouring across the border a year and those jobs were being filled. They stopped being filled when the wages began to suck but rather than the corporations adjust the wages they found an unlimited supply of illegals who would now work for the same wage if not cheaper.
To me paying actual Americans a good wage and not filling it with an illegal far outweighs all the "benefits" for when illegals pay sales tax. Many of these jobs being ones in the middle class that are dying at a rapid rate.
Brother the latinos broke so heavy for Trump they know it's all bullshit and a total con job. But I keep forgetting that a masters degree holding white male who lives in MA knows better than they do.
We can live in the land of make believe and pretend people cheating the system being paid under the table is somehow good for us or we can start deporting them. I can guarantee the money we save on healthcare alone will outweigh any other benefit.
I live in a city where a hospital nearly failed from all the illegals flooding it and not paying the bill. But I'm sure the sales tax they are paying in groceries and gas offsets one of the largest hospitals in the state nearly going bankrupt!
SSteezleYup! Then secretly changing the crime report numbers days after the debate (when David Muir 'fact checked' trump).
They also reported the lowest growing job report in decades. The economy sucks right now. But all they care about is being able to sleep around and have an abortion, women in mens sports, illegal immigrants, keep on raising taxes to pay for all this bullshit!
The people spoke. NS does not align with the people because half of them are spoiled kids that their daddy sent them to summer ski camp.
abortion, women in men's sports, illegal immigrants
Its actually mind boggling that conservatives think that these are the most important issues right now.
Film.I keep forgetting the Democratic Party that used to hate large corporations loves them now. Yea keep letting in immigrants so these giant corporations don't have to pay Americans a normal salary and instead can find illegal immigrants to give them pennies on the dollar!
"Well Americans don't want those Jobs anyway" hmm I think I remember a time when millions weren't pouring across the border a year and those jobs were being filled. They stopped being filled when the wages began to suck but rather than the corporations adjust the wages they found an unlimited supply of illegals who would now work for the same wage if not cheaper.
To me paying actual Americans a good wage and not filling it with an illegal far outweighs all the "benefits" for when illegals pay sales tax. Many of these jobs being ones in the middle class that are dying at a rapid rate.
Brother the latinos broke so heavy for Trump they know it's all bullshit and a total con job. But I keep forgetting that a masters degree holding white male who lives in MA knows better than they do.
We can live in the land of make believe and pretend people cheating the system being paid under the table is somehow good for us or we can start deporting them. I can guarantee the money we save on healthcare alone will outweigh any other benefit.
I live in a city where a hospital nearly failed from all the illegals flooding it and not paying the bill. But I'm sure the sales tax they are paying in groceries and gas offsets one of the largest hospitals in the state nearly going bankrupt!
And once again, a lack of basic economic understanding rears it's head.
I remember why I stopped coming here.
Let's start with the claim that undocumented immigrants stole jobs from US workers -
That's false. Most US citizens have no desire to be farm hands, building / grounds-keeping / maintenance, construction, or work in the food prep. industry. Those are the industries where undocumented immigrants tend to end up.
Why? Because it's low-wage, long-hours, physically-arduous, work.
Furthermore, there will never be a significant wage increase amongst these jobs because they don't require enough skill.
Nevertheless, most research shows that native citizens do not want these jobs.
But please, find me industries that are actually being taken over by undocumented immigrants and have jobs that native citizens would still work.
Oh boy. Hospital finances? Don't go there my man. That's where I spent the last year working at a firm trying to help hospitals become profitable.
Uncollectible Accounts are the least of their worries. The bigger concerns are labor and administrative costs and bed utilization rates.
There's a major labor shortage for nurses (post-COVID accelerated it), hospital administrative units have exploded to combat an identical explosion in Payer administrative units, and bed utilization rates have gone down as healthcare costs have risen.
Immigrants are the least of the US healthcare systems concerns.
Anyways, I'm going to stop posting now because the uninformed takes here just get worse and worse every time I come back.
.MASSHOLE.The bigger concerns are labor and administrative costs and bed utilization rates.
There's a major labor shortage for nurses (post-COVID accelerated it), hospital administrative units have exploded to combat an identical explosion in Payer administrative units, and bed utilization rates have gone down as healthcare costs have risen.
Immigrants are the least of the US healthcare systems concerns.
"The hospital lost $136 million in 2023 because of patients who didn’t pay, including millions of dollars on care for illegal immigrants that the state and federal governments have declined to reimburse."
Sure sounds like a labor and admin cost problem to me!
Film.I keep forgetting the Democratic Party that used to hate large corporations loves them now. Yea keep letting in immigrants so these giant corporations don't have to pay Americans a normal salary and instead can find illegal immigrants to give them pennies on the dollar!
"Well Americans don't want those Jobs anyway" hmm I think I remember a time when millions weren't pouring across the border a year and those jobs were being filled. They stopped being filled when the wages began to suck but rather than the corporations adjust the wages they found an unlimited supply of illegals who would now work for the same wage if not cheaper.
To me paying actual Americans a good wage and not filling it with an illegal far outweighs all the "benefits" for when illegals pay sales tax. Many of these jobs being ones in the middle class that are dying at a rapid rate.
Brother the latinos broke so heavy for Trump they know it's all bullshit and a total con job. But I keep forgetting that a masters degree holding white male who lives in MA knows better than they do.
We can live in the land of make believe and pretend people cheating the system being paid under the table is somehow good for us or we can start deporting them. I can guarantee the money we save on healthcare alone will outweigh any other benefit.
I live in a city where a hospital nearly failed from all the illegals flooding it and not paying the bill. But I'm sure the sales tax they are paying in groceries and gas offsets one of the largest hospitals in the state nearly going bankrupt!
How many giant corporations are full of illegals they pennies on the dollar?
What corporations have a massive percentage of illegal immigrants?
Yes the fed min wage is insane. Do republicans want to go up, that's a negative generally.
We could save a shit ton on health care and make it more accessible by making it free. Yes I know that nothing is free. But gettinf the red tape and bureaucracy out will make health care available and cheaper. No the illegals aren't the biggest issue with our health care.
"We can live in the land of make believe and pretend people cheating the system being paid under the table is somehow good for us or we can start deporting them." What about restaurants? Many restaurants pay under the table. There are some illegals working in the industry for sure. But the waitstaff and bartenders a lot of them white women and US citizens are paid both under the table and don't declare some or all of their tips.
Is that a problem?
If Republicans really cares about saving money or fixing health care they wouldn't vote against it. Opening up healthcare to everyone would reduce the waste, get rid of the red tape, and allow people to see a doctor.
Will some illegals get health care? Absolutely. Is that a huge percent? Definitely not.
Republicans would rather blame everything on illegals, while voting against health care reforms for fear that a small small small percentage of the country would get something for free.
It's like the people who complain about the compression when wages rise. I get it. It sucks if the guy washing dishes makes 20 and you make 23 running a machine. But would you rather making 18 and have them make 12? Some people the answer is yes.
But yeah, all of your problems are because of illegals. I don't even support illegal immigration but this being the cause of every issue in America is pretty ridiculous scapegoating.
Don't use healthcare to hinge your argument if you vote against fixing it. The reason our healthcare system sucks is because Republicans vote against fixing it, not because of a few illegals. We love big corporations making money, even in healthcare. Even at the expense of being able to see a doctor. But sure the illegals did that...
"The hospital lost $136 million in 2023 because of patients who didn’t pay, including millions of dollars on care for illegal immigrants that the state and federal governments have declined to reimburse."
Sure sounds like a labor and admin cost problem to me!
And it aligns with what I was speculating- the hospital has primarily been used by gov't insured-patients meaning they've struggled to get money, then with the increasing labor costs, suddenly found themselves in another pinch.
Shocker, tale as old as time. And it's not like this just happened. It's been in financial difficulty for years. Their patient demographics were bad before they started seeing a surge in undocumented immigrants. This just makes it worse.
This is exactly the kind of shit I dealt with for the last year. Hospital finances are fucked because our healthcare system is fucked. Undocumented immigrants are merely exacerbating an existing problem. Deporting them would change nothing.
**This post was edited on Nov 7th 2024 at 4:46:36pm
Big corporations and small business owners alike openly admit that they can pay illegal migrants a third of what they'd pay legal workers.
You think a gas station owner would rather pay an illegal 5$ an hour or citizen 20$ an hour to work?
I don't see a pump attendant as physical , long hour, arduous work. I just see them taking American jobs because they come from nothing and 5$ is a lot for them and they can't get a legitimate job unless they're paid in cash.
Ever think that the ridiculous increase in raising of the minimum wage is also a reason to blame business for employing illegal immigrants. Since they can't afford to pay citizens the legal wage?
Pretty crazy because a close friend of mine is a farm hand and he's on the verge of losing his 30$ an hour job to migrants. You calling him lazy now?
You're literally arguing business aren't profitable because of wages then saying no migrants are taking the jobs?
???
.MASSHOLE.And once again, a lack of basic economic understanding rears it's head.
I remember why I stopped coming here.
Let's start with the claim that undocumented immigrants stole jobs from US workers -
That's false. Most US citizens have no desire to be farm hands, building / grounds-keeping / maintenance, construction, or work in the food prep. industry. Those are the industries where undocumented immigrants tend to end up.
Why? Because it's low-wage, long-hours, physically-arduous, work.
Furthermore, there will never be a significant wage increase amongst these jobs because they don't require enough skill.
Nevertheless, most research shows that native citizens do not want these jobs.
But please, find me industries that are actually being taken over by undocumented immigrants and have jobs that native citizens would still work.
Oh boy. Hospital finances? Don't go there my man. That's where I spent the last year working at a firm trying to help hospitals become profitable.
Uncollectible Accounts are the least of their worries. The bigger concerns are labor and administrative costs and bed utilization rates.
There's a major labor shortage for nurses (post-COVID accelerated it), hospital administrative units have exploded to combat an identical explosion in Payer administrative units, and bed utilization rates have gone down as healthcare costs have risen.
Immigrants are the least of the US healthcare systems concerns.
Anyways, I'm going to stop posting now because the uninformed takes here just get worse and worse every time I come back.
Three factors increased uncompensated care: increased migration to the Denver area, Medicaid unwinding following the COVID-19 public health emergency, and a new state law that allows people with incomes less than 250% of the poverty line to apply for financial aid, said Tom Gronow, president and CEO of the health system’s University of Colorado Hospital. Coloradans had some right to apply for financial assistance before the 2021 law passed, but hospitals varied in how they handled discounted care.
VTshredder69Big corporations and small business owners alike openly admit that they can pay illegal migrants a third of what they'd pay legal workers.
You think a gas station owner would rather pay an illegal 5$ an hour or citizen 20$ an hour to work?
I don't see a pump attendant as physical , long hour, arduous work. I just see them taking American jobs because they come from nothing and 5$ is a lot for them and they can't get a legitimate job unless they're paid in cash.
Ever think that the ridiculous increase in raising of the minimum wage is also a reason to blame business for employing illegal immigrants. Since they can't afford to pay citizens the legal wage?
Pretty crazy because a close friend of mine is a farm hand and he's on the verge of losing his 30$ an hour job to migrants. You calling him lazy now?
You're literally arguing business aren't profitable because of wages then saying no migrants are taking the jobs?
???
This is my last post because this is just getting dumber and dumber.
A gas station owner who does not pay a worker legally risks getting fined significant money by the IRS. They're much more likely to pay a pump attendant the minimum wage because that's easily traceable by any IRS investigation.
Secondly, as I stated in my prior post, undocumented immigrants can get an ITIN, meaning they can work for any company who does not verify whether or not they are in the US legally. ITINs do not require an SSN or any item that would prove legal immigration status.
Why? Because then you'd run the real risk of losing out on tens of billions of dollars in taxes. Yes, that's how much undocumented migrants contribute annually to the US through taxes.
It sucks for your friend, I'm sorry for him. Sounds like the farmer is struggling himself and needs to cut costs. That's the reality for most non-corporate farms these days. The farmers need to stay afloat and the easiest cost-cutting lever is labor.
**This post was edited on Nov 7th 2024 at 5:00:46pm
.MASSHOLE.This is my last post because this is just getting dumber and dumber.
A gas station owner who does not pay a worker legally risks getting fined significant money by the IRS. They're much more likely to pay a pump attendant the minimum wage because that's easily traceable by any IRS investigation.
Secondly, as I stated in my prior post, undocumented immigrants can get an ITIN, meaning they can work for any company who does not verify whether or not they are in the US legally. ITINs do not require an SSN or any item that would prove legal immigration status.
Why? Because then you'd run the real risk of losing out on tens of billions of dollars in taxes. Yes, that's how much undocumented migrants contribute annually to the US through taxes.
It sucks for your friend, I'm sorry for him. Sounds like the farmer is struggling himself and needs to cut costs. That's the reality for most non-corporate farms these days. The farmers need to stay afloat and the easiest cost-cutting lever is labor.
**This post was edited on Nov 7th 2024 at 5:00:46pm
Lol. Pretty funny how i used real examples and you're refuting it. Delusions run real.
Cut costs. When 99% of companies largest costs are payroll and taxes.
theabortionatorHow many giant corporations are full of illegals they pennies on the dollar?
What corporations have a massive percentage of illegal immigrants?
Replace "illegal immigration" with "mass immigration" and then everything he said would be correct. H1B visas drive down the wages of engineers due to competition with India and Nurses due to competition with the Philippines. Mass immigration (both legal and illegal) from Latin America absolutely drives down wages in agriculture, construction, and sanitation. J1B visas are a major reason why low level ski resort jobs don't have to pay enough to cover rent.
Growing up in Southern California and trying to get a job as a teenager, the effects of mass immigration were abundantly clear. Who would choose to hire an American 17 year old when you could get a 40 year old Mexican immigrant for the same price? We're entirely outsourcing the bottom of our economy and many middle class sectors too.
Film.Another thing people really hate is being told their own eyes /ear deceive them. Something the democratic ticket & and its news orgs did this entire election
But you are being deceived. I won't say that deception doesn't go both ways, because it does, but how do you solve a problem of deception if those being deceived don't wish to empower themselves?
This also answers your previous question of why one party failed over another. Division via deception. We don't have to discuss policies or anything like that but I'll ask that you watch this video made by the us government about not being a sucker and apply some critical thinking about the tactics being used in the video and what parallels can be drawn to current tactics being used by your party of choice. https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1099822/--YouTube
It's the only thing the talked about. Nobody knows what Kamala stood for because she is a brain dead bimbo who doesn't have any coherent thoughts. She didn't lose because she's a woman, she lost because she's a moron.
ParkingLotPissabortion, women in men's sports, illegal immigrants
Its actually mind boggling that conservatives think that these are the most important issues right now.
SlushSeasonReplace "illegal immigration" with "mass immigration" and then everything he said would be correct. H1B visas drive down the wages of engineers due to competition with India and Nurses due to competition with the Philippines. Mass immigration (both legal and illegal) from Latin America absolutely drives down wages in agriculture, construction, and sanitation. J1B visas are a major reason why low level ski resort jobs don't have to pay enough to cover rent.
Growing up in Southern California and trying to get a job as a teenager, the effects of mass immigration were abundantly clear. Who would choose to hire an American 17 year old when you could get a 40 year old Mexican immigrant for the same price? We're entirely outsourcing the bottom of our economy and many middle class sectors too.
Wouldn't getting rid of all the illegal immigrants cause some pretty significant inflation if the problem is as significant as the GOP says it is?
The bottom of our economy is significantly underpaid especially when we saw how almost all those jobs were deemed "essential" during the pandemic.
I think it's pretty fucked up when people argue that we should ignore illegal immigration just so that we can use them for cheap labor. I'm fine with increasing prices as long as the money isn't going to the top 5% of people in the US.
ParkingLotPissin what world in thinking that someone who has been accused of rape, kissing, and groping without consent; looking under women's skirts; and walking in on naked teenage pageant contestants is fit to lead, "normal". and I know that his supports will say that its all made up but even if there's a chance that its true that should make him completely un-electable.
and its pretty easy to believe its true, have you heard the guy talk about women? so fucking disgusting.
That isn't fucking normal, its deeply disturbing.
How much time have you spent working around or talking to trump supporters? These are the people who are fixing your plumbing, pumping your septic tank, building elevator shafts, and plowing the roads. I’m not defending their politics or trump. But constantly demonizing them as bigoted hillbillies who have no understanding of complex topics like the economy or foreign policy is classist, and that is why the democrats lost the election.
1)he welshed on a 500 dollar bet.... only paid up 250 ........5 months later
2) this rotten cunt refused another bet 4 years AFTER!!!!!! i said lets put everything on the line!!!!!...... and this cocksucker refused!!!!!!1!!! and now u got him saying ooooooh trrumppy wumpyyy.... oooooooh poooka snookkkkkk, oooooooh stinky-pooooool oooooh buuteer -nut this butter nut that?>>>>>>??? wtf??? tell him to shut the fuck up and pay up b4 running his fat fuck mouth
alll bark no bite here ppl......
ooooooh immma listen to the John Rohan podcast and shove whatever up my ass. cuz i hate women . yup
yup ....
im calling u all out. u have this daft cunt pay up what he owed 4 years ago......
he a fake ass boot-licker... wouldnt even put his condo on the line.... he has no class.... not loyal..... never thouhght pooka-snook had a chance
Film.Another thing people really hate is being told their own eyes /ear deceive them. Something the democratic ticket & and its news orgs did this entire election.
You've said this multiple times. But yeah, the current republican party and fox news news is famously welcome to ideas and people they disagree with.
TOAST.Wouldn't getting rid of all the illegal immigrants cause some pretty significant inflation if the problem is as significant as the GOP says it is?
The bottom of our economy is significantly underpaid especially when we saw how almost all those jobs were deemed "essential" during the pandemic.
I think it's pretty fucked up when people argue that we should ignore illegal immigration just so that we can use them for cheap labor. I'm fine with increasing prices as long as the money isn't going to the top 5% of people in the US.
Yes. It probably would. It would be a tough shock to the economy for a couple years as it'll take a while for wages to catch up. But i believe it'll be better for us in the long run, both economically and culturally.
TheDebtCollectorthis fucking rotten cocksucker is a bad one
1)he welshed on a 500 dollar bet.... only paid up 250 ........5 months later
2) this rotten cunt refused another bet 4 years AFTER!!!!!! i said lets put everything on the line!!!!!...... and this cocksucker refused!!!!!!1!!! and now u got him saying ooooooh trrumppy wumpyyy.... oooooooh poooka snookkkkkk, oooooooh stinky-pooooool oooooh buuteer -nut this butter nut that?>>>>>>??? wtf??? tell him to shut the fuck up and pay up b4 running his fat fuck mouth
alll bark no bite here ppl......
ooooooh immma listen to the John Rohan podcast and shove whatever up my ass. cuz i hate women . yup
yup ....
im calling u all out. u have this daft cunt pay up what he owed 4 years ago......
he a fake ass boot-licker... wouldnt even put his condo on the line.... he has no class.... not loyal..... never thouhght pooka-snook had a chance
.MASSHOLE.Furthermore, there will never be a significant wage increase amongst these jobs because they don't require enough skill.
This is a terrible take, the reason why everything is shittily made now is because we refuse to pay workers who do actually have skills what they deserve. All labor is skilled labor
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 12:29:20am
hi_vis360This is a terrible take, the reason why everything is shittily made now is because we refuse to pay workers who do actually have skills what they deserve. All labor is skilled labor
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 12:29:20am
Really?
It doesn't take skill to wash a floor. It doesn't take a lot of skill or training to pump gas.
Do you think those jobs should pay ~$20+/hr?
I'm all for raising the minimum wage but there will always be menial labor jobs that will not capture nor deserve more than it.
You're talking about something entirely different when you discuss jobs that require manufacturing/creation. Those jobs aren't going to come back either because the fact of the matter is, the wider American population doesn't want to pay for those goods.
Yes, I know there's a poll from the American Manufacturing Association showing a large portion of the electorate would prefer MiUSA items. The problem is there's no price increase attached to that question. Is it a 5% increase? 10%? 20%? 30%? People will have a point at which it's no longer attractive to purchase.
A $50 dollar iPhone case made in America isn't worth it to most, they want their $10 case from Amazon because either they don't believe there's a $40 difference or they'd rather spend that $40 on luxuries like Ubereats or necessities like gas and groceries.
Should an American company shell out the capital to build a plant and hire workers, and then risk no one buying their item? No investor or company would be willing to take that risk.
"But what about tariffs?" you ask. Tariffs are a fucking disaster for 9/10 industries, and even worse when done in broad stroke form like Trump (and some Dems) have called for.
Do you remember what happened with the broad stroke steel tariffs from Trump's 1st term? That was done to bring back manufacturing and attempt to prevent cheaper foreign steel from dominating the market. It wanted to make it so US steel companies could offer those higher wages.
But I do remember what happened, it wasn't great.
But here's what the professionals found.
The jobs “saved” in the steel-producing industries from the tariffs came at a high cost to consumers, at roughly $650,000 per job saved according to the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
According to Tax Foundation estimates, repealing the Section 232 tariffs would increase long-run GDP by 0.02 percent and create more than 4,000 jobs.
Other estimates, such as those from economists Lydia Cox and Kadee Russ, suggest that job losses from the tariffs were as high as 75,000
Not great Bob, not great. So you can "want" to pay more for MiUSA things all you want but it's going to come at a significantly higher cost and frankly may result in job losses in the near term. Many of those 75k jobs came in downstream industries that were reliant on cheaper steel and saw a reduction in purchases as prices for their goods had to rise and sales fell.
In the theoretical example of the iPhone case, people may just forgo using a case all together. So you've now got a company that's not selling products and will likely have to shut down.
Sure, this is a very very simplified example but it's how we ended up where we are now in a globalized economy. Some people like their cheaper goods, others can only afford them.
If you want upend the entire economic system to make things MiUSA the only option, it's going to be a VERY rough 2nd term because the fact of the matter is, we don't have the infrastructure in the US to make most of these things anymore and it won't happen in a single 4 year term. Doing that would likely take 8-10 years, minimum.
Given the US electorate's grasp of economics is worse than a 1st-day Econ 101 level student, I don't see the next election turning out well for whichever party attempts to implement that. Even Fox couldn't put a positive spin on it if the GOP did it.
You think prices are frustrating now? Wait till the MiUSA stuff starts appearing with no alternative and wages haven't followed suit (because we all know the GOP would fight a minimum wage increase tooth and nail).
Don't get me wrong, I am all for MiUSA items. But it can't strictly be "only inputs from USA", there needs to be some sort of combination between low-cost inputs for mass-produced items with the final output being MiUSA. For instance, a great example is the BMW factory in SC. One of the best car manufacturing facilities in the world and yet uses a combination of inputs from international sources and US labor.
We ironically had a pretty decent system with NAFTA that allowed for a combination of MiUSA, MiMEX, and MiCA goods. Was it perfect? Hell no. It had some serious problems. One of the biggest problems was it hit some people harder than others and there was no safety net in place to make sure they could get alternative work.
But the BMW example shows it's possible even in a globalized world to manufacture things in the US that can also be made elsewhere and be good at it.
Somebody who is really good at washing floors can do it 2x faster and better than someone who has no experience at it. If you’ve done blue collar work you know that’s true. I’m not saying they should be rich, but arguing they don’t deserve a good wage is elitist - a big problem in the Democratic Party right now. You really think saying “you don’t deserve high pay for cleaning hotel rooms” is winning over the Latino vote? You’re also out here shitting on the us electorate for not understanding economics, another totally elitist take. Tons of trump supporters own small businesses and contracting companies, they know what’s going on, even if they have different opinions on what the solution is than you.
I agree that the manufacturing issue is far more complex and harder to fix than most realize. I liked the Harris/Biden strategy better than the trump plan which is why I voted for them. But I will never defend cheaply made shit shipped from overseas and food from factory farms. We should be working to eliminate those products from society without passing on costs to those who are actually producing quality items and food.
.MASSHOLE.Really?
It doesn't take skill to wash a floor. It doesn't take a lot of skill or training to pump gas.
Do you think those jobs should pay ~$20+/hr?
I'm all for raising the minimum wage but there will always be menial labor jobs that will not capture nor deserve more than it.
You're talking about something entirely different when you discuss jobs that require manufacturing/creation. Those jobs aren't going to come back either because the fact of the matter is, the wider American population doesn't want to pay for those goods.
Yes, I know there's a poll from the American Manufacturing Association showing a large portion of the electorate would prefer MiUSA items. The problem is there's no price increase attached to that question. Is it a 5% increase? 10%? 20%? 30%? People will have a point at which it's no longer attractive to purchase.
A $50 dollar iPhone case made in America isn't worth it to most, they want their $10 case from Amazon because either they don't believe there's a $40 difference or they'd rather spend that $40 on luxuries like Ubereats or necessities like gas and groceries.
Should an American company shell out the capital to build a plant and hire workers, and then risk no one buying their item? No investor or company would be willing to take that risk.
"But what about tariffs?" you ask. Tariffs are a fucking disaster for 9/10 industries, and even worse when done in broad stroke form like Trump (and some Dems) have called for.
Do you remember what happened with the broad stroke steel tariffs from Trump's 1st term? That was done to bring back manufacturing and attempt to prevent cheaper foreign steel from dominating the market. It wanted to make it so US steel companies could offer those higher wages.
But I do remember what happened, it wasn't great.
But here's what the professionals found.
The jobs “saved” in the steel-producing industries from the tariffs came at a high cost to consumers, at roughly $650,000 per job saved according to the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
According to Tax Foundation estimates, repealing the Section 232 tariffs would increase long-run GDP by 0.02 percent and create more than 4,000 jobs.
Other estimates, such as those from economists Lydia Cox and Kadee Russ, suggest that job losses from the tariffs were as high as 75,000
Not great Bob, not great. So you can "want" to pay more for MiUSA things all you want but it's going to come at a significantly higher cost and frankly may result in job losses in the near term. Many of those 75k jobs came in downstream industries that were reliant on cheaper steel and saw a reduction in purchases as prices for their goods had to rise and sales fell.
In the theoretical example of the iPhone case, people may just forgo using a case all together. So you've now got a company that's not selling products and will likely have to shut down.
Sure, this is a very very simplified example but it's how we ended up where we are now in a globalized economy. Some people like their cheaper goods, others can only afford them.
If you want upend the entire economic system to make things MiUSA the only option, it's going to be a VERY rough 2nd term because the fact of the matter is, we don't have the infrastructure in the US to make most of these things anymore and it won't happen in a single 4 year term. Doing that would likely take 8-10 years, minimum.
Given the US electorate's grasp of economics is worse than a 1st-day Econ 101 level student, I don't see the next election turning out well for whichever party attempts to implement that. Even Fox couldn't put a positive spin on it if the GOP did it.
You think prices are frustrating now? Wait till the MiUSA stuff starts appearing with no alternative and wages haven't followed suit (because we all know the GOP would fight a minimum wage increase tooth and nail).
Don't get me wrong, I am all for MiUSA items. But it can't strictly be "only inputs from USA", there needs to be some sort of combination between low-cost inputs for mass-produced items with the final output being MiUSA. For instance, a great example is the BMW factory in SC. One of the best car manufacturing facilities in the world and yet uses a combination of inputs from international sources and US labor.
We ironically had a pretty decent system with NAFTA that allowed for a combination of MiUSA, MiMEX, and MiCA goods. Was it perfect? Hell no. It had some serious problems. One of the biggest problems was it hit some people harder than others and there was no safety net in place to make sure they could get alternative work.
But the BMW example shows it's possible even in a globalized world to manufacture things in the US that can also be made elsewhere and be good at it.
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 7:32:57am
hi_vis360Somebody who is really good at washing floors can do it 2x faster and better than someone who has no experience at it. If you’ve done blue collar work you know that’s true. I’m not saying they should be rich, but arguing they don’t deserve a good wage is elitist - a big problem in the Democratic Party right now. You really think saying “you don’t deserve high pay for cleaning hotel rooms” is winning over the Latino vote? You’re also out here shitting on the us electorate for not understanding economics, another totally elitist take. Tons of trump supporters own small businesses and contracting companies, they know what’s going on, even if they have different opinions on what the solution is than you.
I agree that the manufacturing issue is far more complex and harder to fix than most realize. I liked the Harris/Biden strategy better than the trump plan which is why I voted for them. But I will never defend cheaply made shit shipped from overseas and food from factory farms. We should be working to eliminate those products from society without passing on costs to those who are actually producing quality items and food.
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 7:32:57am
I have done blue collared work before. I worked 4 summers setting up and taking down summer camps at schools. Want to know what I learned? Doing that work fast doesn't mean you get paid more. You get paid hourly, you have no incentive to work faster.
And that means there's zero added benefit to washing a floor 2x as fast.
Furthermore, why should a company pay a higher premium for someone who can clean faster if it does not improve anything for their company?
That's what you're missing. There's no added benefit to the company, only the provider. They can now do another floor. But the company couldn't care less about that. They just want their floor clean for a certain price in a certain time frame.
There's going to be some sort of equilibrium, an elasticity of demand as Econ 101 would describe it, for any good or service. For menial labor that will always be the minimum wage. Why? Because there's minimal benefit to improving the quality.
I mean if the US electorate thinks deportation + tariffs is going to solve inflation and wage disparity, then yes I will call them out for not understanding economics. Because both of those things will do the alternative of what they're expecting.
You think business owners understand the effect tariffs can have? Well, I have some news for you. Many do not.
Again, steel example:
One US competitor, Pitts Enterprises,which was part of the coalition that lobbied for the tariffs, saw its own opportunity. It decided not just to ramp up US production but to team up with a Vietnamese company to import almost 18,000 new chassis.
Then came the first twist: US authorities in March 2023 found the Vietnamese chassis imported by Pitts contained lots of Chinese parts. That subjected them to the new duties, and it left Pitts — which is still fighting the result — facing a tariff bill worth tens of millions of dollars and a total hit of $250 million in lost revenue.
Remember who Michigan voted for in 2016? Same story.
In Michigan, steelmakers have served layoff notices to nearly 2,000 workers since the tariff took effect, according to a Reuters analysis ofthe notices steel companies filed with the state. The state's primary metals manufacturing industry, which includes iron and steel mills, employed about 7,300 fewer workers in August than in March 2018, when Trump announced metal tariffs, according to data from Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
Also food from factory farms? There's no alternative to that. The US cannot sustain itself on small, independently-owned farms. You don't like factory farms? Fine, outlaw them. Then you'll see prices skyrocket unless we can find an alternative from overseas (which is what would likely happen).
You think $5/eggs is bad? Wait till it hits $6, 7, 8, 9, or even $10.
That is Econ 101 knowledge. Scarcity = higher prices. Economies of scale = potential for lower prices. Big farms prevent scarcity and utilize economies of scale to lower prices for the consumer.
Now again, not defending the industry or it's practices but to get rid of them would be dumb and frankly disastrous.
Furthermore, it's completely ignoring the economics of independent farming.
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 8:09:14am
Again, I am not defending trump policies, I think they are bad for workers and manufacturing.
A summer job isn’t the same as having a career in a blue collar field lmao. But you make a good point about hourly wage - perhaps we should be paying more people a salary, showing them the same respect and trust that we show to white collar workers? I do labor at a farm and I’m paid a salary. I am constantly trying to find ways to get the job done faster, better, and to increase my value as an employee to the farm, but also to benefit myself. Saying that there is minimal benefit to improving the quality of labor jobs is exactly why everything is so poorly made now and our food is shit.
.MASSHOLE.I have done blue collared work before. I worked 4 summers setting up and taking down summer camps at schools. Want to know what I learned? Doing that work fast doesn't mean you get paid more. You get paid hourly, you have no incentive to work faster.
And that means there's zero added benefit to washing a floor 2x as fast.
Furthermore, why should a company pay a higher premium for someone who can clean faster if it does not improve anything for their company?
That's what you're missing. There's no added benefit to the company, only the provider. They can now do another floor. But the company couldn't care less about that. They just want their floor clean for a certain price in a certain time frame.
There's going to be some sort of equilibrium, an elasticity of demand as Econ 101 would describe it, for any good or service. For menial labor that will always be the minimum wage. Why? Because there's minimal benefit to improving the quality.
I mean if the US electorate thinks deportation + tariffs is going to solve inflation and wage disparity, then yes I will call them out for not understanding economics. Because both of those things will do the alternative of what they're expecting.
You think business owners understand the effect tariffs can have? Well, I have some news for you. Many do not.
Again, steel example:
One US competitor, Pitts Enterprises,which was part of the coalition that lobbied for the tariffs, saw its own opportunity. It decided not just to ramp up US production but to team up with a Vietnamese company to import almost 18,000 new chassis.
Then came the first twist: US authorities in March 2023 found the Vietnamese chassis imported by Pitts contained lots of Chinese parts. That subjected them to the new duties, and it left Pitts — which is still fighting the result — facing a tariff bill worth tens of millions of dollars and a total hit of $250 million in lost revenue.
Remember who Michigan voted for in 2016? Same story.
In Michigan, steelmakers have served layoff notices to nearly 2,000 workers since the tariff took effect, according to a Reuters analysis ofthe notices steel companies filed with the state. The state's primary metals manufacturing industry, which includes iron and steel mills, employed about 7,300 fewer workers in August than in March 2018, when Trump announced metal tariffs, according to data from Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
hi_vis360Again, I am not defending trump policies, I think they are bad for workers and manufacturing.
A summer job isn’t the same as having a career in a blue collar field lmao. But you make a good point about hourly wage - perhaps we should be paying more people a salary, showing them the same respect and trust that we show to white collar workers? I do labor at a farm and I’m paid a salary. I am constantly trying to find ways to get the job done faster, better, and to increase my value as an employee to the farm, but also to benefit myself. Saying that there is minimal benefit to improving the quality of labor jobs is exactly why everything is so poorly made now and our food is shit.
Never said it was same as having a career but that's what a lot of blue collared jobs are - hourly and frankly require minimal skill.
And there in lies the difference between your work and the work of a menial labor job - if you improve your efficiency, the farm improves and makes more money. Therefore, you should be paid more if you're good at your job. If the workers, some of whom worked for the schools FT, improved their efficiency nothing changed for them. The school didn't "run better", the cleaner buildings didn't suddenly mean more money.
An improvement in the quality of a menial labor job does not normally see an improvement in quality or efficiency for the firm hiring for said job.
Therefore, there's no incentive to pay more.
And shifting from hourly -> salaried is a double-edged sword. Those hourly jobs that pay OT? That's how some people make most of their money. They definitely do not want a salaried job.
Again, back to the poorly made / shit food - People care about prices. They "vote" with their wallet. They want that $4 item rather than the $10 item because they can spend that $6 elsewhere.
Until people's purchasing habits change, there's no incentive for firms to improve quality. Look at Chipotle, people indicated they were unhappy with the serving size by no longer shopping there as well as making numerous complaints. As a result, Chipotle had to change their serving size.
It can be done but until people actually back up their words with their actions, it means nothing will change.
**This post was edited on Nov 8th 2024 at 8:42:18am
TheDebtCollectorthis fucking rotten cocksucker is a bad one
1)he welshed on a 500 dollar bet.... only paid up 250 ........5 months later
2) this rotten cunt refused another bet 4 years AFTER!!!!!! i said lets put everything on the line!!!!!...... and this cocksucker refused!!!!!!1!!! and now u got him saying ooooooh trrumppy wumpyyy.... oooooooh poooka snookkkkkk, oooooooh stinky-pooooool oooooh buuteer -nut this butter nut that?>>>>>>??? wtf??? tell him to shut the fuck up and pay up b4 running his fat fuck mouth
alll bark no bite here ppl......
ooooooh immma listen to the John Rohan podcast and shove whatever up my ass. cuz i hate women . yup
yup ....
im calling u all out. u have this daft cunt pay up what he owed 4 years ago......
he a fake ass boot-licker... wouldnt even put his condo on the line.... he has no class.... not loyal..... never thouhght pooka-snook had a chance
theabortionatorYou've said this multiple times. But yeah, the current republican party and fox news news is famously welcome to ideas and people they disagree with.
fox news had kamala on and she bombed!!! She wouldn't do their debate. She was trash. Why wouldn't she talk to Joe Rogan? The country voted OVERWHELMINGLY against her. Anyone liberal in this thread isn't aligned with the majority of americans. Truth.
SSteezlefox news had kamala on and she bombed!!! She wouldn't do their debate. She was trash. Why wouldn't she talk to Joe Rogan? The country voted OVERWHELMINGLY against her. Anyone liberal in this thread isn't aligned with the majority of americans. Truth.
SSteezleI love how you upvote all of your posts! LOL Fucking loser.
