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Not the biggest fan of Zelesnky but gotta give him respect for refusing to concede to Trump & Russia.
Putin is not a dude you can trust. He stated taht the biggest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet Union. He's attempting to put it back together. Fuck that.
And the entire reason that the deal fell through yesterday is not because Putin isn’t trustworthy. We all know that. It’s because Trump has signaled repeatedly that he is the one who is not trustworthy in upholding and enforcing the agreement due to his longstanding support of Putin and condemnation of Zelensky. Zelensky didn’t need reassurances that Russia would uphold the ceasefire, he needed reassurances that Trump would DO something and actually provide Ukraine with protection when Russia inevitably violated the agreement. If Trump hadn’t been such a Russian simp for the last DECADE or longer, and had Trump been staunchly in support of our allies and firmly against our enemies, it would have gone a long way in Zelensky trusting the U.S. in the agreement.
Wanting assurances that in a contract there will be consequences if it is not upheld is standard fare. The fact that Vance and Trump treated Zelensky with disdain for the mere mention of it is a sign that they were not dealing in good faith and Zelensky was smart in being cautious and not blindly signing the agreement.
VTshredder69Not the biggest fan of Zelesnky but gotta give him respect for refusing to concede to Trump & Russia.
Putin is not a dude you can trust. He stated taht the biggest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet Union. He's attempting to put it back together. Fuck that.
**This post was edited on Mar 1st 2025 at 2:46:03pm
VTshredder69Hear ya man. I don't trust Elon at all. Is anyone even monitoring what he's doing? And was he even nominated ?
One of the first groups that were targeted after Elon was put in were the inspector generals.
He was not nominated and the White House has been wishy washy about whether or not he runs DOGE or is just an advisor, likely because him administrating DOGE would be directly illegal.
Up until a day or two ago the line from leavitt was “Elon musk is in charge of DOGE, but he is not the administrator of DOGE, I will NOT tell you WHO the administrator of DOGE is, Elon is a special advisor”
**This post was edited on Mar 1st 2025 at 4:56:39pm
VTshredder69Not the biggest fan of Zelesnky but gotta give him respect for refusing to concede to Trump & Russia.
Putin is not a dude you can trust. He stated taht the biggest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet Union. He's attempting to put it back together. Fuck that.
That’s part of why it was crazy to see Vance and Trump get so lit up.
What was being pointed out by Zelensky is that every deal they had with Russia in the past 22 years since the Budapest memorandum has been reneged.
He didn’t even target them in particular. He said it was an issue under Obama, Trump, and Biden. Fighting continued along the line of contact in the Donbas and Crimea after Minsk 1 and 2 were signed up until the start of the full blown war in 2022.
This is just history, and probably an important thing for zelensky to point out before signing another toothless deal, like the many that have been signed before. And this toothless deal also requires them to completely capitulate to Russia and to sell their countries wealth to the U.S.
And remember, Zelenskyy was willing to negotiate from the start. Complete capitulation however, is not negotiation or peace.
I voted for Trump. I did NOT vote for Elon. Someone needs to be monitoring what this guy is doing.
I'm rooting hard for the Tesla stock selloff. Have a few Puts with a 225$ strike price ranging from late march through mid April.
Fingers crossed
LonelyOne of the first groups that were targeted after Elon was put in were the inspector generals.
He was not nominated and the White House has been wishy washy about whether or not he runs DOGE or is just an advisor, likely because him administrating DOGE would be directly illegal.
Up until a day or two ago the line from leavitt was “Elon musk is in charge of DOGE, but he is not the administrator of DOGE, I will NOT tell you WHO the administrator of DOGE is, Elon is a special advisor”
**This post was edited on Mar 1st 2025 at 4:56:39pm
Honestly Zelensky was the bigger man here. He gained my respect after sticking it to Trump. The Ukranian people have gone through so much... to lay down now would be defeat. He didn't let Trump bully him into cashing out. I have Ukranian heritage and my grandparents both speak Ukranian and will be the first to tell you it is NOT a Russian dialect.
LonelyThat’s part of why it was crazy to see Vance and Trump get so lit up.
What was being pointed out by Zelensky is that every deal they had with Russia in the past 22 years since the Budapest memorandum has been reneged.
He didn’t even target them in particular. He said it was an issue under Obama, Trump, and Biden. Fighting continued along the line of contact in the Donbas and Crimea after Minsk 1 and 2 were signed up until the start of the full blown war in 2022.
This is just history, and probably an important thing for zelensky to point out before signing another toothless deal, like the many that have been signed before. And this toothless deal also requires them to completely capitulate to Russia and to sell their countries wealth to the U.S.
And remember, Zelenskyy was willing to negotiate from the start. Complete capitulation however, is not negotiation or peace.
VTshredder69I voted for Trump. I did NOT vote for Elon. Someone needs to be monitoring what this guy is doing.
I'm rooting hard for the Tesla stock selloff. Have a few Puts with a 225$ strike price ranging from late march through mid April.
Fingers crossed
I understand this, but it would appear that Elon is doing this at trumps behest. With Trump telling musk to go further and in his first cabinet meeting (where musk stood and talked) said anyone in the cabinet that that is unhappy with Elon will be thrown outta there.
So it seems like the options are
1. Trump has control of Elon and endorses the crazy actions and lack of oversight into musks actions
2. Trump doesn’t have or doesn’t want to have full control over musk (let him shake things up and then throw musk under the bus once he goes too far or becomes too unpopular)
3. Musk has something on Trump, or Trump has completely lost control
None of these things are particular good for Trump or non Trump voters or our democracy in general. They do pay service to the minority of the Republican Party that actually wants a king, whether that be Elon or Trump.
LonelyI understand this, but it would appear that Elon is doing this at trumps behest. With Trump telling musk to go further and in his first cabinet meeting (where musk stood and talked) said anyone in the cabinet that that is unhappy with Elon will be thrown outta there.
So it seems like the options are
1. Trump has control of Elon and endorses the crazy actions and lack of oversight into musks actions
2. Trump doesn’t have or doesn’t want to have full control over musk (let him shake things up and then throw musk under the bus once he goes too far or becomes too unpopular)
3. Musk has something on Trump, or Trump has completely lost control
None of these things are particular good for Trump or non Trump voters or our democracy in general. They do pay service to the minority of the Republican Party that actually wants a king, whether that be Elon or Trump.
To be clear Trump said if anyone was unhappy with Elon he would throw “him” out of here. As in throw Elon out.
PartyBullshiitTo be clear Trump said if anyone was unhappy with Elon he would throw “him” out of here. As in throw Elon out.
Hmm
Possible. Listening to the video again it’s “if you are we’ll throw em outta here”.
While I could give him the benefit of the doubt, considering the context of a few days earlier trump telling musk to go harder, and the amount of things Trump has allowed Elon to do over the past month, Trump doing pressers with Elon instead of his VP, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Dude spent more time talking than a good few of the cabinet members.
LonelyI understand this, but it would appear that Elon is doing this at trumps behest. With Trump telling musk to go further and in his first cabinet meeting (where musk stood and talked) said anyone in the cabinet that that is unhappy with Elon will be thrown outta there.
So it seems like the options are
1. Trump has control of Elon and endorses the crazy actions and lack of oversight into musks actions
2. Trump doesn’t have or doesn’t want to have full control over musk (let him shake things up and then throw musk under the bus once he goes too far or becomes too unpopular)
3. Musk has something on Trump, or Trump has completely lost control
None of these things are particular good for Trump or non Trump voters or our democracy in general. They do pay service to the minority of the Republican Party that actually wants a king, whether that be Elon or Trump.
Agreed. I might even add a fourth option.
Trump is an elitest egomaniac who is so greedy that he blindly trusts anyone who has more wealth than himself.
I like the idea of DOGE but everything needs to be audited first. Elon is just doing whatever tf he wants.
Pretty fucked up how he got billions in government tax cuts to start tesla and spacex and is now trying to eliminate them for his competitors.
Possible. Listening to the video again it’s “if you are we’ll throw em outta here”.
While I could give him the benefit of the doubt, considering the context of a few days earlier trump telling musk to go harder, and the amount of things Trump has allowed Elon to do over the past month, Trump doing pressers with Elon instead of his VP, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Dude spent more time talking than a good few of the cabinet members.
I heard “if you are well throw him out of here,” but I can see why people thought he said something different because that statement is contrary to the way he’s been acting… so it’s like… really? We just assumed it would be the other way around 😬
LonelyHmm
Possible. Listening to the video again it’s “if you are we’ll throw em outta here”.
While I could give him the benefit of the doubt, considering the context of a few days earlier trump telling musk to go harder, and the amount of things Trump has allowed Elon to do over the past month, Trump doing pressers with Elon instead of his VP, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Dude spent more time talking than a good few of the cabinet members.
For the record I said this not because Vance gives off douchey vibes but because he's from Ohio. Not trying to throw myself or any of my fellow Ohioans under the bus but most people from Ohio are absolute dog shit at skiing.
HypeBeastOmg we need to see a video of vance "skiing". $100 says he snow plows
HypeBeastFor the record I said this not because Vance gives off douchey vibes but because he's from Ohio. Not trying to throw myself or any of my fellow Ohioans under the bus but most people from Ohio are absolute dog shit at skiing.
He's a great speaker and good at fighting against anything whether he believes in it or not. When I saw him in the initial debates was obvious it was a good call for trump.
I don't think he has a soul. But he's a decent debator maybe even a master of sorts.
theabortionatorHe's a great speaker and good at fighting against anything whether he believes in it or not. When I saw him in the initial debates was obvious it was a good call for trump.
I don't think he has a soul. But he's a decent debator maybe even a master of sorts.
Oh for sure. The guy is smart and can debate very well. He's got a weird angle or no backbone tho. It was weird to see him so against Trump years ago and now his right hand man. Very odd
HypeBeastOh for sure. The guy is smart and can debate very well. He's got a weird angle or no backbone tho. It was weird to see him so against Trump years ago and now his right hand man. Very odd
Eh, idk. To some extent yeah but look at the right wing grifter pipeline. There's way more money to be made. Sure, you're kind of a piece of shit, but you'll be a more wealthy one.
I remember the first time I heard of Candace Owens was on Joe Rogan. I was still listening a bit on road trips. I got the vibe that she wasn't being honest about anything. Didn't even know her but she had that vibe. Now in the last 8 years or whatever she's got a show, been on all kinds of stuff and raking in the $$$.
There's plenty of right wing people that deeply believe in what their saying. Their are also many that realize it's easy to manipulate them and make decent bank.
theabortionatorEh, idk. To some extent yeah but look at the right wing grifter pipeline. There's way more money to be made. Sure, you're kind of a piece of shit, but you'll be a more wealthy one.
I remember the first time I heard of Candace Owens was on Joe Rogan. I was still listening a bit on road trips. I got the vibe that she wasn't being honest about anything. Didn't even know her but she had that vibe. Now in the last 8 years or whatever she's got a show, been on all kinds of stuff and raking in the $$$.
There's plenty of right wing people that deeply believe in what their saying. Their are also many that realize it's easy to manipulate them and make decent bank.
Kinda everyone in Washington. You should see the stock trackers people set up to try and emulate what politicians do (aka Nancy Pelosi).
Low key Candace is the most annoying person on the planet . I don't think she believes what she's saying. She says it because she thinks it's what conservatives want to hear. She also seems desperate for attention.
Would have to say imo I think Vance is candid with what he says. His story is the definition of the American dream. No father and addict mother so he basically raised himself and had to grow up fast.
It's pretty interesting how politics work. I don't think Kamala ever called Biden a racist... but suggesting he had racist policies is pretty much the same thing. Then she joins him. Vance literally called Trump the American hitler and now they're working together.
Funny how politics works....
theabortionatorEh, idk. To some extent yeah but look at the right wing grifter pipeline. There's way more money to be made. Sure, you're kind of a piece of shit, but you'll be a more wealthy one.
I remember the first time I heard of Candace Owens was on Joe Rogan. I was still listening a bit on road trips. I got the vibe that she wasn't being honest about anything. Didn't even know her but she had that vibe. Now in the last 8 years or whatever she's got a show, been on all kinds of stuff and raking in the $$$.
There's plenty of right wing people that deeply believe in what their saying. Their are also many that realize it's easy to manipulate them and make decent bank.
HypeBeastKinda everyone in Washington. You should see the stock trackers people set up to try and emulate what politicians do (aka Nancy Pelosi).
I like that a lot of left leaning people are not into here and chuck schumer. Hopefully there's better hope for the next gen of politicians. Some or maybe a lot of them now are too establishment driven and that won't help them win and not what the country wants.
VTshredder69Low key Candace is the most annoying person on the planet . I don't think she believes what she's saying. She says it because she thinks it's what conservatives want to hear. She also seems desperate for attention.
Would have to say imo I think Vance is candid with what he says. His story is the definition of the American dream. No father and addict mother so he basically raised himself and had to grow up fast.
It's pretty interesting how politics work. I don't think Kamala ever called Biden a racist... but suggesting he had racist policies is pretty much the same thing. Then she joins him. Vance literally called Trump the American hitler and now they're working together.
Funny how politics works....
There's a price on anything and conservatives are extremely willing to forget anything and remeber vibes. Sexual harassment by fox news moguls, gay sex arrests or scandals but anti gay politicians. As ling as you say the right things people will stand by you through anything. Not everyone, but enough. It's kind of wild to see.
The DNC needs to burn to the ground or drastically change honestly though. They have been folding to try to bring in more right wing/moderate voters instead of pocking a stance and staying with it.
I fuxking hate trump and most of what he's done. But at least he's stayed consistent even if hes exploiting the rural poor. Bothers me a bit because thatshow I grew up and that's his main voter. He'll change at any point, but the main things and the racist xenophobic vibes he's stuck with. The Left needs to grow a pair some day. They've run some horrible candidates including biden. Establishment for establishment.
I despise current right wing politics but at least they're honest about what theyre doing.
Honesty is by far the wrong word but they lean into what works. Modern DNC is playing the game from decades ago and its not working. They went after Bernie which is kimd of an unforgivable sin imo.
Hoping when the old establishment dies off the left will still have the fire and vigor to fight, and it won't be too late.
Running biden was a horrible move and look where it got us
Definitely agree both parties have some serious faults. In the end the job should be to serve the people & country but a lot of the time it doesn't feel like that's actually happening. The divisiveness is at an all time high and both parties are to blame.
I think Trump actually does love America but he's undoubtedly a narcissistic lunatic who seems to prefer to help the wealthy more than anything.
He might be shooting himself in the foot with these tariffs. Prices for all Americans will go up initially and in 2 years the republicans will pay for it in the midterm elections IMO.
Bring back Bill Clinton. He did a tremendous job of running the country and was a master at mollifying both sides of the isle.
theabortionatorThere's a price on anything and conservatives are extremely willing to forget anything and remeber vibes. Sexual harassment by fox news moguls, gay sex arrests or scandals but anti gay politicians. As ling as you say the right things people will stand by you through anything. Not everyone, but enough. It's kind of wild to see.
The DNC needs to burn to the ground or drastically change honestly though. They have been folding to try to bring in more right wing/moderate voters instead of pocking a stance and staying with it.
I fuxking hate trump and most of what he's done. But at least he's stayed consistent even if hes exploiting the rural poor. Bothers me a bit because thatshow I grew up and that's his main voter. He'll change at any point, but the main things and the racist xenophobic vibes he's stuck with. The Left needs to grow a pair some day. They've run some horrible candidates including biden. Establishment for establishment.
I despise current right wing politics but at least they're honest about what theyre doing.
Honesty is by far the wrong word but they lean into what works. Modern DNC is playing the game from decades ago and its not working. They went after Bernie which is kimd of an unforgivable sin imo.
Hoping when the old establishment dies off the left will still have the fire and vigor to fight, and it won't be too late.
Running biden was a horrible move and look where it got us
VTshredder69Definitely agree both parties have some serious faults. In the end the job should be to serve the people & country but a lot of the time it doesn't feel like that's actually happening. The divisiveness is at an all time high and both parties are to blame.
I think Trump actually does love America but he's undoubtedly a narcissistic lunatic who seems to prefer to help the wealthy more than anything.
He might be shooting himself in the foot with these tariffs. Prices for all Americans will go up initially and in 2 years the republicans will pay for it in the midterm elections IMO.
Bring back Bill Clinton. He did a tremendous job of running the country and was a master at mollifying both sides of the isle.
I mean Clinton did push a lot of "tough on crime" shit but I guess kinda was falling in line with rhe people. You probably couldn't get elected at the time unless you made that shit a big issue. Still pretty problematic but better than Bush
No Doubt. Bush didn't do America any good. I just don't see the sense in bombing third world countries.
Obama was the one of the most well spoken presidents in American history... but then you dig into the amount of drone strikes he ordered and its sort of fucked. 542 strikes killing 4,000 people and 300 something civilians.
No wonder the world hates america in all honesty.
theabortionatorI mean Clinton did push a lot of "tough on crime" shit but I guess kinda was falling in line with rhe people. You probably couldn't get elected at the time unless you made that shit a big issue. Still pretty problematic but better than Bush
VTshredder69No Doubt. Bush didn't do America any good. I just don't see the sense in bombing third world countries.
Obama was the one of the most well spoken presidents in American history... but then you dig into the amount of drone strikes he ordered and its sort of fucked. 542 strikes killing 4,000 people and 300 something civilians.
No wonder the world hates america in all honesty.
Yeah, I wonder how it is when you become president or if Obama ran on shit to get him elected and didn't care. But those drone strikes are bordeline war crimes. It's wild he won the nobel peace prize.
Idk fuck that shit. I hope that he was well intentioned at least while running.
It sucks that after the left went back to people that were establishment af from the start. I think it was a bad call and the elections seem to reflect that. Sure Biden wom but that had a lot of anti trump votes more than supporters.
I hate the "i told you so" shit. But I got absolutely roasted by Biden fans during that campaign. I mostly said the simple shit of "he's too fucking old and was a meme under Omaba 12 years ago".
I got lit the fuck up by friends and randos. I totally get voting against trump,and I fucking hate trump, but the schilling for biden as a good candidate was obnoxious. Too be fare he did do some good things. He seemed generally comatose so I'm guessing those policies had some help. But also, dude couldn't even finish out his first term. Like wtf are we actually doing. People including me were bitching about his age and cognitive decline way before the election. The later in his term people argued that he was fine and could win another term.
Please DNC do something not shotty. Or i hope the party burns to the ground and something decent rises from the ashes like Ben Afleks back tattoo
I genuinely felt bad for Biden because he went downhill pretty quick once elected.
It was pretty early on in his term. What's crazy is how noticeable it was and yet the media telling everyone that "he's sharp as a tack" before the 2024 debate with Trump. It's like they think the American people are stupid and really couldn't notice his mental decline.
Democrats need to put up a more moderate candidate. They spun Kamala as a moderate but she was pretty progressive right before running for president. Trump was beatable against any actual qualified candidate. Undecided & republican voters felt as though the democrats cared more about migrants and LGBT than actual tax paying americans.. At least I felt that way and i think a lot of others did as well.
theabortionatorYeah, I wonder how it is when you become president or if Obama ran on shit to get him elected and didn't care. But those drone strikes are bordeline war crimes. It's wild he won the nobel peace prize.
Idk fuck that shit. I hope that he was well intentioned at least while running.
It sucks that after the left went back to people that were establishment af from the start. I think it was a bad call and the elections seem to reflect that. Sure Biden wom but that had a lot of anti trump votes more than supporters.
I hate the "i told you so" shit. But I got absolutely roasted by Biden fans during that campaign. I mostly said the simple shit of "he's too fucking old and was a meme under Omaba 12 years ago".
I got lit the fuck up by friends and randos. I totally get voting against trump,and I fucking hate trump, but the schilling for biden as a good candidate was obnoxious. Too be fare he did do some good things. He seemed generally comatose so I'm guessing those policies had some help. But also, dude couldn't even finish out his first term. Like wtf are we actually doing. People including me were bitching about his age and cognitive decline way before the election. The later in his term people argued that he was fine and could win another term.
Please DNC do something not shotty. Or i hope the party burns to the ground and something decent rises from the ashes like Ben Afleks back tattoo
You can’t win the white house with far left ideologies and policies. They don’t represent enough of the country. You have to be more moderate. As much as I like Bernie Sanders, him refusing to bow out of the race when he was clearly not going to win and polarizing the dems to write him in instead of back Clinton is why Trump got into the White House to begin with. Democratic infighting is their Achilles heal. Republicans win because they don’t infight. Once a candidate has been chosen, even if he’s not the one they wanted, they back that candidate. Democrats drive me nuts in that regard. It’s so obvious they hurt themselves.
The U.S. is responsible for this shit show due to the two party system. It shouldn’t be democrats and republicans. Since when has dividing a country into two polarized groups a good strategy? When has that ever worked well in world history?
How about instead of two parties and a list of bullet points under each of them and Americans having to choose one side or the other and adopt all the bullet points with their given party, we instead just have no parties and just have candidates run on their own individual platforms and ideals. No republicans, no democrats, just 5 candidates who pitch their goals and ideals, narrowed down to 2 through bipartisan caucusing, and at the end each person votes for their favorite candidate?
Also, how about some accountability regarding what is said on the campaign trail. Why do we just take a politicians word for what they’re going to do based on these campaign speeches?
There should instead be signed pledges. Pre-drafted plans that are signed and the candidate is held accountable to act on them if they’re elected.
None of this will happen, of course— at least not anytime soon. We’re closer to a civil war than we are civility in elections.
theabortionatorThere's a price on anything and conservatives are extremely willing to forget anything and remeber vibes. Sexual harassment by fox news moguls, gay sex arrests or scandals but anti gay politicians. As ling as you say the right things people will stand by you through anything. Not everyone, but enough. It's kind of wild to see.
The DNC needs to burn to the ground or drastically change honestly though. They have been folding to try to bring in more right wing/moderate voters instead of pocking a stance and staying with it.
I fuxking hate trump and most of what he's done. But at least he's stayed consistent even if hes exploiting the rural poor. Bothers me a bit because thatshow I grew up and that's his main voter. He'll change at any point, but the main things and the racist xenophobic vibes he's stuck with. The Left needs to grow a pair some day. They've run some horrible candidates including biden. Establishment for establishment.
I despise current right wing politics but at least they're honest about what theyre doing.
Honesty is by far the wrong word but they lean into what works. Modern DNC is playing the game from decades ago and its not working. They went after Bernie which is kimd of an unforgivable sin imo.
Hoping when the old establishment dies off the left will still have the fire and vigor to fight, and it won't be too late.
Running biden was a horrible move and look where it got us
Ok yes listening to it back it’s “em” and obviously with the clapping people assumed he meant Elon….but that wouldn’t make sense in context, you’re spot on there. If you have to defer to context he clearly means who ever opposes him.
LonelyHmm
Possible. Listening to the video again it’s “if you are we’ll throw em outta here”.
While I could give him the benefit of the doubt, considering the context of a few days earlier trump telling musk to go harder, and the amount of things Trump has allowed Elon to do over the past month, Trump doing pressers with Elon instead of his VP, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Dude spent more time talking than a good few of the cabinet members.
VTshredder69I genuinely felt bad for Biden because he went downhill pretty quick once elected.
It was pretty early on in his term. What's crazy is how noticeable it was and yet the media telling everyone that "he's sharp as a tack" before the 2024 debate with Trump. It's like they think the American people are stupid and really couldn't notice his mental decline.
Democrats need to put up a more moderate candidate. They spun Kamala as a moderate but she was pretty progressive right before running for president. Trump was beatable against any actual qualified candidate. Undecided & republican voters felt as though the democrats cared more about migrants and LGBT than actual tax paying americans.. At least I felt that way and i think a lot of others did as well.
Dems should just put forward a beyter candidate but should be open to putting in a semi left leaning candidate. There's some ass kissing and pandering to win an election but they're so worried about sticking to norms and winning both sides people feel like the dont stand for anything. Sure I think a lot of the right will fall in line easier with the pandering. I think the DNC should run real candidates, not bullshit establishment that stand for something. Stay consistent and not fold to the right or trying to win those voters.
I mean obviously I wish we had 3 or 4 parties but fuck. The dems are just chasing the reps and its a bad moved imo.
I hope we see some changes in the DNC. That said they've shown no signs of changing so might have to be a generational thing when people die.
I'm not sure, but I think people would rally behind a good candidate with real values. Im not talking the fake moral values of the right. But a candidate that stands for something. Hillary, biden, Kamala weren't good candidates ever imo. Not because of the crazy conspiracy shit that wasn't true, but for legitimately valid reasons.
Sno.You can’t win the white house with far left ideologies and policies. They don’t represent enough of the country. You have to be more moderate. As much as I like Bernie Sanders, him refusing to bow out of the race when he was clearly not going to win and polarizing the dems to write him in instead of back Clinton is why Trump got into the White House to begin with. Democratic infighting is their Achilles heal. Republicans win because they don’t infight. Once a candidate has been chosen, even if he’s not the one they wanted, they back that candidate. Democrats drive me nuts in that regard. It’s so obvious they hurt themselves.
The U.S. is responsible for this shit show due to the two party system. It shouldn’t be democrats and republicans. Since when has dividing a country into two polarized groups a good strategy? When has that ever worked well in world history?
How about instead of two parties and a list of bullet points under each of them and Americans having to choose one side or the other and adopt all the bullet points with their given party, we instead just have no parties and just have candidates run on their own individual platforms and ideals. No republicans, no democrats, just 5 candidates who pitch their goals and ideals, narrowed down to 2 through bipartisan caucusing, and at the end each person votes for their favorite candidate?
Also, how about some accountability regarding what is said on the campaign trail. Why do we just take a politicians word for what they’re going to do based on these campaign speeches?
There should instead be signed pledges. Pre-drafted plans that are signed and the candidate is held accountable to act on them if they’re elected.
None of this will happen, of course— at least not anytime soon. We’re closer to a civil war than we are civility in elections.
I do agree that infighting hurt the democrats for sure. What I don't agree is that being bernie or other people's fault. I'm not a "bernie bro". But I think the problem with the DNC is they refuse to change. It's like boomers not reacting to a changing world.
I think that had far more to do with the 2016 election then bernie.
I think we should have more debate. Biden was a fucking terrible candidate to run. I was bitching about it. He was too fucking old. He surprisingly was decent as president for his 3.5 years because of his advisors but he never should have been on the platform.
There's a fundemental fuckery in the DNC running establishment candidates that shouldn't be there.
They're a decade plus behind the times. Fuck, listening to Schumer speak is painful.
I hate trump winning but I really do think the DNC is doing this to themselves by running awful candidates that could win in q999. Time'shave changes.
We need more partiesor a block on showing party affiliation on the ballot I agree. That said there's absolutely something to be said to the DNC running shitty candidates and campaigns. Sure you hate trump, I do too but tou aren't going to take him down with bullshit 100 year old mummy establishment democrats. It just isn't going to happen. This party needs change. And if it foesnt happen, if old ass borderline dead people are there, if the plan is to pander to the moderate snd the left leaning right? That election is over.
The right knows what they're doing and is making it happen. The left is a first time chess player getting absolutely smoked
Yes but you’re calling for the Democratic Party to “change” in the sense that they need to ditch the old and usher in the new— and by new you’re talking about more progressive more liberal candidates— with regards to fiscal policy (because even moderate dems are socially progressive). You might be able to fire up your base in doing so, and may be able to squeeze out a win that way —maybe), but why is it a good thing for the two sides to continue to split further and further apart and the polarization to increase? The hatred the right has for the left is frightening, quite frankly. Left has disdain for the right but at least it’s civil disdain not charged with violence. No matter what, half of this country is not going to vote fiscally progressive. They don’t want socialism or communism. So yeah you might be able to eek out a win with a far left candidate, same as the right was able to do so with their radical left candidate this time, and implement a bunch of progressive liberal policies, but look what it does to the country. All that would do is fire up the country to go the opposite and undo it all in the next election, rinse & repeat.
I don’t know why you think Biden was a bad candidate. I mean fuck, he won. Why? Because the country isn’t ready to vote for a woman. So the party put up who could win. What’s wrong with Biden? He was too old, that I agree with. A younger Biden would have been more ideal. But what was the better option? Name a better option that could also win.
As an aside I’d like to see Hakeem Jeffries in the running in 2028.
theabortionatorI do agree that infighting hurt the democrats for sure. What I don't agree is that being bernie or other people's fault. I'm not a "bernie bro". But I think the problem with the DNC is they refuse to change. It's like boomers not reacting to a changing world.
I think that had far more to do with the 2016 election then bernie.
I think we should have more debate. Biden was a fucking terrible candidate to run. I was bitching about it. He was too fucking old. He surprisingly was decent as president for his 3.5 years because of his advisors but he never should have been on the platform.
There's a fundemental fuckery in the DNC running establishment candidates that shouldn't be there.
They're a decade plus behind the times. Fuck, listening to Schumer speak is painful.
I hate trump winning but I really do think the DNC is doing this to themselves by running awful candidates that could win in q999. Time'shave changes.
We need more partiesor a block on showing party affiliation on the ballot I agree. That said there's absolutely something to be said to the DNC running shitty candidates and campaigns. Sure you hate trump, I do too but tou aren't going to take him down with bullshit 100 year old mummy establishment democrats. It just isn't going to happen. This party needs change. And if it foesnt happen, if old ass borderline dead people are there, if the plan is to pander to the moderate snd the left leaning right? That election is over.
The right knows what they're doing and is making it happen. The left is a first time chess player getting absolutely smoked
Kamala is not an establishment democrat. The reason she didn’t win is because there are enough never-Trump moderate republicans and centrist moderate democrats to vote for a moderate white dude like Biden but will not vote for a woman. It’s “too far” for them. That, and enough moderate democrats who are currently feeling the sting of the economy to not want more tax hikes on the middle class. But you’re suggesting going further than what was already “too far”. If the left didn’t pander to the moderates their numbers would be even lower. You think AOC would have won?
I did once think what you’re thinking— that once all the boomers die off the conservatives with their pro-life and uber religious stances will die off and this country will become much more progressive.
My opinion on that has changed since Trump and all of his followers have now managed to indoctrinate a younger generation of far-right soldiers to continue their “legacy.”
theabortionatorI do agree that infighting hurt the democrats for sure. What I don't agree is that being bernie or other people's fault. I'm not a "bernie bro". But I think the problem with the DNC is they refuse to change. It's like boomers not reacting to a changing world.
I think that had far more to do with the 2016 election then bernie.
I think we should have more debate. Biden was a fucking terrible candidate to run. I was bitching about it. He was too fucking old. He surprisingly was decent as president for his 3.5 years because of his advisors but he never should have been on the platform.
There's a fundemental fuckery in the DNC running establishment candidates that shouldn't be there.
They're a decade plus behind the times. Fuck, listening to Schumer speak is painful.
I hate trump winning but I really do think the DNC is doing this to themselves by running awful candidates that could win in q999. Time'shave changes.
We need more partiesor a block on showing party affiliation on the ballot I agree. That said there's absolutely something to be said to the DNC running shitty candidates and campaigns. Sure you hate trump, I do too but tou aren't going to take him down with bullshit 100 year old mummy establishment democrats. It just isn't going to happen. This party needs change. And if it foesnt happen, if old ass borderline dead people are there, if the plan is to pander to the moderate snd the left leaning right? That election is over.
The right knows what they're doing and is making it happen. The left is a first time chess player getting absolutely smoked
Sno.Yes but you’re calling for the Democratic Party to “change” in the sense that they need to ditch the old and usher in the new— and by new you’re talking about more progressive more liberal candidates— with regards to fiscal policy (because even moderate dems are socially progressive). You might be able to fire up your base in doing so, and may be able to squeeze out a win that way —maybe), but why is it a good thing for the two sides to continue to split further and further apart and the polarization to increase? The hatred the right has for the left is frightening, quite frankly. Left has disdain for the right but at least it’s civil disdain not charged with violence. No matter what, half of this country is not going to vote fiscally progressive. They don’t want socialism or communism. So yeah you might be able to eek out a win with a far left candidate, same as the right was able to do so with their radical left candidate this time, and implement a bunch of progressive liberal policies, but look what it does to the country. All that would do is fire up the country to go the opposite and undo it all in the next election, rinse & repeat.
I don’t know why you think Biden was a bad candidate. I mean fuck, he won. Why? Because the country isn’t ready to vote for a woman. So the party put up who could win. What’s wrong with Biden? He was too old, that I agree with. A younger Biden would have been more ideal. But what was the better option? Name a better option that could also win.
As an aside I’d like to see Hakeem Jeffries in the running in 2028.
Idk, sure yeah maybe a left leaning person wouldn't take root at first. Clearly Hilary did shitty, Kamala did shitty, and Biden only won because people hated trump. I knkw politicians are hard to trust but I definitely don't believe any of those 3 as being good candidates.
So yeah maybe we lose an election but the party means something. I'm not saying the Republicans are genuine or mean anything real ever but still.
I sure as fuck am not voting for a garbage establishment dem in the next election. I'm so over this shit. Either die or run better candidates. Sure there's a schism in the democratic party but I think it's the party being out of touch. Sure democratic policies benefit a lot of people that vite Republican against their best interests but damn. Democrats run some horrible candiand run elections like it's 20 years ago. Maybe I won't agree with a lot but just be honest about what you want. Constantly treading the line so maybe some right wing voters take interest looses you votes.
Running people like Hilary and Biden loses your votes. Forcing in Kamala who ke and many others hating being the vice pick doesn't get you very far. I sure as fuxk didn't vote for her.
I get that it's a lesser of two evils shitshow but the dnc is fucking up so hard. I will vote for them less if they continue this.
Blame me for this shit I don't care. But a lot of people are fed up with these bs candidates honestly.
Maybe there are people who are genuinely moderate. Maybe not every democrat is a closeted progressive far-left liberal just pretending to be moderate to get some middle leaning votes. Maybe their platform does stand for exactly what they say it stands for it and it just isn’t as far left as you’d prefer. Doesn't mean it’s fake. Is it a well-known and common strategy to go with candidates that aren’t radical so that they can bring in some of the purple counties? Yes. But it doesn’t mean the non-radical candidates are faking it.
And yes, infighting, and refusing to vote blue because they’re not blue enough for you, is why red is winning. Yes, far left liberals who “sure as fuck didn’t vote” for Kamala, is why Trump is dismantling our democracy right now.
Dems are their own worst enemies just like women are.
sure yeah maybe a left leaning person wouldn't take root at first. Clearly Hilary did shitty, Kamala did shitty, and Biden only won because people hated trump. I knkw politicians are hard to trust but I definitely don't believe any of those 3 as being good candidates.
So yeah maybe we lose an election but the party means something. I'm not saying the Republicans are genuine or mean anything real ever but still.
I sure as fuck am not voting for a garbage establishment dem in the next election. I'm so over this shit. Either die or run better candidates. Sure there's a schism in the democratic party but I think it's the party being out of touch. Sure democratic policies benefit a lot of people that vite Republican against their best interests but damn. Democrats run some horrible candiand run elections like it's 20 years ago. Maybe I won't agree with a lot but just be honest about what you want. Constantly treading the line so maybe some right wing voters take interest looses you votes.
Running people like Hilary and Biden loses your votes. Forcing in Kamala who ke and many others hating being the vice pick doesn't get you very far. I sure as fuxk didn't vote for her.
I get that it's a lesser of two evils shitshow but the dnc is fucking up so hard. I will vote for them less if they continue this.
Blame me for this shit I don't care. But a lot of people are fed up with these bs candidates honestly.[/quote]
**This post was edited on Mar 2nd 2025 at 1:02:02pm
Is it lost on you that people in this thread are saying Kamala didn’t win because she’s too progressive while you say she’s so far from being progressive enough for you that you didn’t even vote for her?!
You are aware that there are swing states and purple counties right?
How do you suggest securing the White House without any swing states and no purple counties? You can’t. So you’re just saying you don’t care. You’d rather see a far right extremist in the White House and a republican house and senate than have to ever vote for someone who doesn’t align precisely with your own ideologies— despite your ideologies not being the same as the rest of the country. You’re not willing to compromise or lose to win at all.
Pushing one’s ideologies on their fellow neighbor is the root of all the problems in this country— on both sides. Have your own ideologies but respect that not everyone is going to feel exactly the way you do about everything.
It’s like republicans trying to push their pro-life stances on everyone else.
At the end of the day you may want communism in this country. But refusing to vote for the “next best thing” to your own ideals because not enough people agree with you, and therefore ushering in a party and candidate that is the OPPOSITE of what you want… that’s just self destructive bullshit. Sorry.
theabortionatorIdk, sure yeah maybe a left leaning person wouldn't take root at first. Clearly Hilary did shitty, Kamala did shitty, and Biden only won because people hated trump. I knkw politicians are hard to trust but I definitely don't believe any of those 3 as being good candidates.
So yeah maybe we lose an election but the party means something. I'm not saying the Republicans are genuine or mean anything real ever but still.
I sure as fuck am not voting for a garbage establishment dem in the next election. I'm so over this shit. Either die or run better candidates. Sure there's a schism in the democratic party but I think it's the party being out of touch. Sure democratic policies benefit a lot of people that vite Republican against their best interests but damn. Democrats run some horrible candiand run elections like it's 20 years ago. Maybe I won't agree with a lot but just be honest about what you want. Constantly treading the line so maybe some right wing voters take interest looses you votes.
Running people like Hilary and Biden loses your votes. Forcing in Kamala who ke and many others hating being the vice pick doesn't get you very far. I sure as fuxk didn't vote for her.
I get that it's a lesser of two evils shitshow but the dnc is fucking up so hard. I will vote for them less if they continue this.
Blame me for this shit I don't care. But a lot of people are fed up with these bs candidates honestly.
**This post was edited on Mar 2nd 2025 at 1:12:36pm
You know sometimes you vote for someone who doesn’t exactly align perfectly with your own ideologies because it is for the greater good. That is what you are asking of the middle class and moderate democrats. You’re asking them to vote for and support ideologies that are progressive and that will ultimately make their situation worse for the greater good of those in our society who need the help and support the most. That’s honorable. But why are you not willing to do the same? And vote for a candidate whose platform is not as progressive as you’d like to to be for the good of the country to not suffer at the hands of Trump?
You couldn’t put disabled people above your own personal number one priorities this time around?
Im not trying to shame you, but if you didn’t vote for Kamala that is the reality.
We’re (my family personally) in a position right now of wanting lower capital gains taxes, and Kamala’s policies mean higher capital gains while Trumps platform means lower. By all means a vote for Trump would have been by far in our own best financial interest. We still voted for Kamala out of social responsibility and because rights and benefits for the elderly, disabled, and societies most vulnerable affects us directly, and affects most of society. It was the right thing to do regardless of our bottom line.
**This post was edited on Mar 2nd 2025 at 1:39:04pm
**This post was edited on Mar 2nd 2025 at 1:41:08pm
**This post was edited on Mar 2nd 2025 at 1:42:14pm
theabortionatorYeah, I wonder how it is when you become president or if Obama ran on shit to get him elected and didn't care. But those drone strikes are bordeline war crimes. It's wild he won the nobel peace prize.
Idk fuck that shit. I hope that he was well intentioned at least while running.
It sucks that after the left went back to people that were establishment af from the start. I think it was a bad call and the elections seem to reflect that. Sure Biden wom but that had a lot of anti trump votes more than supporters.
I hate the "i told you so" shit. But I got absolutely roasted by Biden fans during that campaign. I mostly said the simple shit of "he's too fucking old and was a meme under Omaba 12 years ago".
I got lit the fuck up by friends and randos. I totally get voting against trump,and I fucking hate trump, but the schilling for biden as a good candidate was obnoxious. Too be fare he did do some good things. He seemed generally comatose so I'm guessing those policies had some help. But also, dude couldn't even finish out his first term. Like wtf are we actually doing. People including me were bitching about his age and cognitive decline way before the election. The later in his term people argued that he was fine and could win another term.
Please DNC do something not shotty. Or i hope the party burns to the ground and something decent rises from the ashes like Ben Afleks back tattoo
Democrats don't hold primaries, and they wonder why their candidate doesn't win. Yet, Trump is the 'thread to democracy', when he was actually voted for by the people. The hypocrisy is so clear, yet somehow most democrats turn the blind eye. If the democratic party let the people chose their candidate they would stand a chance, but more and more liberal cities and states are turning red. It's a simple fact.
To be fair, one post looks really long because the quote box was eliminated, so the multi-paragraph post I was responding to appeared to be part of my own post. And to also be fair, my very next post was simply pointing that out. Also whatever! I do what I want!
cool270outThe guy quad posted a 6 paragraph essay. That’s wild
Why do Trump supporters always say the same thing about protesters? If they are protesting for Democrats, they are being paid, and if they are protesting for the right, they are undercover FBI agents wearing masks.
