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November, 2024

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POWDR selling Killington, Pico, Bachelor, Eldora, and Silverstar

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jaxful
Posts: 94 - Karma: 720
My gf who works for powdr told me about it earlier, looks like its confirmed here: https://www.stormskiing.com/p/powdr-to-sell-killington-pico-to



What do we think? Thats 3(?) Woodward locations that will be gone. Do you think Killy, Bachelor, and Eldora will keep quality parks?
Aug 22 2024 11:02AM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,472
Seems like a W as long as Vail doesn't buy them.
Aug 22 2024 11:25AM
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Rock_Inhabitant
Posts: 1202 - Karma: 12,150
I really hope eldora doesn’t take too much of a hit
Aug 22 2024 11:32AM
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midwestcoast
Posts: 205 - Karma: 2,093
I could be wrong, but I highly doubt Vail would emerge as a buyer for the remaining resorts. Alterra, maybe, but I doubt that too. Their acquisitions generally happen behind closed doors, and often the seller approaches them first to gauge interest. I'd be willing to bet that both corporations have already done their due diligence and passed prior to these headlines being published. Could be a variety of factors: asking price too high, antitrust implications, capital investment financials are too risky, etc...
This business is tougher to compete than it's ever been.

If I could own any business in the ski industry it'd be Leitner Poma.
Aug 22 2024 11:55AM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9401 - Karma: 68,885
I figured alterra would buy powdr corp at some point and I feel like they'd definitely want Killington on that, so this is surprising to me
midwestcoastI could be wrong, but I highly doubt Vail would emerge as a buyer for the remaining resorts. Alterra, maybe, but I doubt that too. Their acquisitions generally happen behind closed doors, and often the seller approaches them first to gauge interest. I'd be willing to bet that both corporations have already done their due diligence and passed prior to these headlines being published. Could be a variety of factors: asking price too high, antitrust implications, capital investment financials are too risky, etc...
This business is tougher to compete than it's ever been.

If I could own any business in the ski industry it'd be Leitner Poma.
Aug 22 2024 12:18PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
midwestcoastI could be wrong, but I highly doubt Vail would emerge as a buyer for the remaining resorts. Alterra, maybe, but I doubt that too. Their acquisitions generally happen behind closed doors, and often the seller approaches them first to gauge interest. I'd be willing to bet that both corporations have already done their due diligence and passed prior to these headlines being published. Could be a variety of factors: asking price too high, antitrust implications, capital investment financials are too risky, etc...
This business is tougher to compete than it's ever been.

If I could own any business in the ski industry it'd be Leitner Poma.


Both Vail and Alterra will have trouble buying anything in CO. They are both under anti-trust issues in that state.

LP is light years behind Dopp. In both technology and market share.
Aug 22 2024 12:20PM
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exit32
Posts: 96 - Karma: 1,084
I think Boyne would like bachelor. They don't have anything in that area.
Aug 22 2024 12:45PM
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nCrow
Posts: 1220 - Karma: 7,969
Hopefully Eldora stays on ikon. Best place for CO pow days when coming from the Denver area and don’t want to sit in 5 hours of traffic
Aug 22 2024 1:43PM
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dwt802
Posts: 3257 - Karma: 32,121
This is overall such a great thing, I’m so stoked. Powdr Corp still has a small share in the resort but their ideas aren’t on top anymore. Hopefully Killington will be able to cater to the people much much more now. I’d love to see Kparks and green rails come back or at least some harder rails again but who knows.
Aug 22 2024 2:14PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 6,290
Time to paint the rails green again.
Aug 22 2024 2:32PM
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GrandThings
Posts: 3166 - Karma: 31,947
PLEASE PAINT THE RAILS GREEN
Aug 22 2024 3:10PM
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smacpats
Posts: 3 - Karma: 37
SkiBum.Both Vail and Alterra will have trouble buying anything in CO. They are both under anti-trust issues in that state.

I wonder if they would be in a similar bet in VT if they had purchased Killington-Pico. There are only 4 high speed chairs in the state not operated by Vail, Alterra or Killington-Pico.
LP is light years behind Dopp. In both technology and market share.

But in price?
Aug 22 2024 3:57PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,806
exit32I think Boyne would like bachelor. They don't have anything in that area.


I would back this, I want free skiing at Bachelor on my pass lol
Aug 22 2024 5:42PM
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bennwithtwons
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 11,819
I’m only skeptical because of the claim about having a girlfriend. We know that’s not true, so what else could be a lie?
Aug 22 2024 6:45PM
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Kyguyy
Posts: 581 - Karma: 6,390
Killington was purchased by two “local” investors
eheathSeems like a W as long as Vail doesn't buy them.
Aug 22 2024 7:18PM
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isaacwrong
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 17,781
Bets on selling price? Almost 20 years ago sold for 83.5 million. Gotta be at least double that with all the added winter ops infrastructure and addition to summer recreation
Aug 22 2024 8:15PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4814 - Karma: -704
isaacwrongBets on selling price? Almost 20 years ago sold for 83.5 million. Gotta be at least double that with all the added winter ops infrastructure and addition to summer recreation


I think Powdr milked every penny they could to the developers putting in the new shit and knew it was time to peace.

Trust/Hedge fund local bros probably got a reasonable price they just have to sit back and watch their baby get raped.

Ditch Ikon and the World Cup and play the exclusive card and things will go well for new ownership. K has a ridiculously large customer base due to proximity to the entire East coast you sit at the bar or ride the Gondi and have to listen to Philly sports chatter. It sucks its not further from NYC and the mid atlantic.
Aug 23 2024 12:47AM
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Farmville420
Posts: 4796 - Karma: 61,517
nCrowHopefully Eldora stays on ikon. Best place for CO pow days when coming from the Denver area and don’t want to sit in 5 hours of traffic

Lmao I do the same thing on pow days, way shorter lines too
Aug 23 2024 1:34AM
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SlushSeason
Posts: 890 - Karma: 6,734
I'm hope this is a sign of structural issues within powdr corp. Fuck that company and fuck their fast passes
Aug 23 2024 1:41AM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
smacpatsI wonder if they would be in a similar bet in VT if they had purchased Killington-Pico. There are only 4 high speed chairs in the state not operated by Vail, Alterra or Killington-Pico.

But in price?


Only thing LP has going price point wise is Sky Trac for your fixed grip lifts. They seem to be the market share of anything fixed grip going in. Dopp is just slammed with big projects and contracts. Everything from high speed lifts, gondolas, airport people movers, etc. They have made a sweet product and brand.

In the next few years Dopp has 10+ high speeds at Deer Valley, all the Big Sky lift network that is just continuing to be huge and amazing, Newark Airport with is like a $900m deal for them, plus your normal lift upgrades 1 at a time. Check out liftblog.com to see all the latest news and lifts going in. Peter over there runs a sweet site and has all the down low.
Aug 23 2024 7:15AM
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partyandBS
Posts: 4750 - Karma: 73,042
SkiBum.LP is light years behind Dopp. In both technology and market share.


i mean im not as involved with lifts but from my perception, every new lift in CO has been LP for the last like 10 years. at least for VR and i believe alterra and all of a basins chairs are also poma. i feel like i rarely see dop and when i do its something that is older than me. probably just a local market thing but poma is in grand junction which seems like a great spot to be for CO/UT resorts. honestly surprised doppelmayr got the deer valley contract. 16 lifts is an insane expansion.
Aug 23 2024 12:32PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4883 - Karma: 17,364
Me too.
a_burgerI would back this, I want free skiing at Bachelor on my pass lol
Aug 24 2024 12:55AM
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mrk127
Posts: 1804 - Karma: 16,331
Brule.Time to paint the rails green again.


GrandThingsPLEASE PAINT THE RAILS GREEN


Haha the old Bachelor rails were green too. Bring it back
Aug 24 2024 2:12AM
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blazeonyia
Posts: 354 - Karma: 1,367
I have purchased all the waffle shacks at Killington. We are consolidating the menu. You can now get a waffle half dipped in chocolate or completely dipped in chocolate. Nothing else.
Aug 26 2024 7:23AM
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RRhighrider
Posts: 2141 - Karma: 1,141
I know it is out of their sphere of influence, but it would be interesting if California Mountain Company purchased Mount Bachelor. They are expanding, and getting a destination mountain in Oregon would be a option instead of entering the Tahoe market.

**This post was edited on Aug 26th 2024 at 2:36:22pm
Aug 26 2024 2:35PM
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Evancantspin
Posts: 505 - Karma: 7,184
blazeonyiaI have purchased all the waffle shacks at Killington. We are consolidating the menu. You can now get a waffle half dipped in chocolate or completely dipped in chocolate. Nothing else.


Preciate it such a waste of a waffle if it isn’t dipped in that goodness
Aug 26 2024 3:19PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 6,290
mrk127Haha the old Bachelor rails were green too. Bring it back


Didn’t want to bump this without providing anything of substance but I got confirmation from an anonymous inside source at Killington and it’s confirmed that the Woodward branding is going bye-bye before this season starts.

Get stoked, motherfuckers.
Aug 29 2024 12:52PM
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partyandBS
Posts: 4750 - Karma: 73,042
Brule.Didn’t want to bump this without providing anything of substance but I got confirmation from an anonymous inside source at Killington and it’s confirmed that the Woodward branding is going bye-bye before this season starts.

Get stoked, motherfuckers.


loses the strongest single force of park emphasis in the industry and you think thats going to be a good thing??
Aug 29 2024 1:22PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 6,290
partyandBSloses the strongest single force of park emphasis in the industry and you think thats going to be a good thing??


Yes.

A solid majority of people that grew up on the east coast hearing about Killington knew about Killington Parks way before Woodward Killington was ever a thing. This will bring back more of an individual brand to the parks themselves and hopefully give Park Crew more creative freedom. Does this mean they won’t have events like Tell A Friend Tour, Hike & Hang, and the Red Bull Slide-In Tour again in the future? No, but this will definitely bring back the identity that Killington once had before they painted the rails the Woodward colors in Winter 2020/21.

Also at the end of the day, a majority-owned POWDR company advertising at a minority-owned POWDR resort doesn’t make much sense, especially when they don’t have a facility in town or nearby like they do in places like Copper, Park City, or Boreal.
Aug 29 2024 2:02PM
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partyandBS
Posts: 4750 - Karma: 73,042
Brule.Yes.

A solid majority of people that grew up on the east coast hearing about Killington knew about Killington Parks way before Woodward Killington was ever a thing. This will bring back more of an individual brand to the parks themselves and hopefully give Park Crew more creative freedom. Does this mean they won’t have events like Tell A Friend Tour, Hike & Hang, and the Red Bull Slide-In Tour again in the future? No, but this will definitely bring back the identity that Killington once had before they painted the rails the Woodward colors in Winter 2020/21.

Also at the end of the day, a majority-owned POWDR company advertising at a minority-owned POWDR resort doesn’t make much sense, especially when they don’t have a facility in town or nearby like they do in places like Copper, Park City, or Boreal.


i like your optimism

i fear that the new owners aren’t going to invest in the parks at the level that powdr did and probably not at the level of pre-powdr. my guess is they will have to increase labor and IT infrastructure without the support of the centralized systems of powdr which will incur pretty significant costs. so to balance that, a demphasis on parks is the quickest way to savings with reduced labor, reduced snowmaking demand, increased terrain in family friendly terrain, less risk, etc. there is a big business case to cut parks that i think is in consideration at all resorts

obviously im on NS because im an advocate for maintaining the presence of parks and hope that killi can drive more park skiing and be a positive case for more parks. time will tell
Aug 29 2024 2:57PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 6,290
partyandBSi like your optimism

i fear that the new owners aren’t going to invest in the parks at the level that powdr did and probably not at the level of pre-powdr. my guess is they will have to increase labor and IT infrastructure without the support of the centralized systems of powdr which will incur pretty significant costs. so to balance that, a demphasis on parks is the quickest way to savings with reduced labor, reduced snowmaking demand, increased terrain in family friendly terrain, less risk, etc. there is a big business case to cut parks that i think is in consideration at all resorts

obviously im on NS because im an advocate for maintaining the presence of parks and hope that killi can drive more park skiing and be a positive case for more parks. time will tell


The guys who are buying the mountain have skied here for at least 10+ years. If anything, they’re definitely going to be tuning into what the locals have to say and it would be incredibly asinine if they disregarded the opinions of those who have been here for generations.


When I first moved here, people were still nostalgic of the days when Rosey oversaw park operations and the green rails that were all over the place. People were getting fed up of the all-snow features, which is understandable when we’re living in a day and age where we’re mostly struggling our way through the winter in terms of snowfall. Hopefully this will mean that they’ll include more rails and other features that involve not using as much snow to maintain (a prime example is how Sugarbush has been set up for years), and I think the rail plaza at the bottom of Peace Park from last spring was only the beginning. I do agree that time will tell, but it only keeps proving that the local influence on the mountain is strong as fuck.
Aug 29 2024 3:19PM
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GrandThings
Posts: 3166 - Karma: 31,947
Brule.The guys who are buying the mountain have skied here for at least 10+ years. If anything, they’re definitely going to be tuning into what the locals have to say and it would be incredibly asinine if they disregarded the opinions of those who have been here for generations.


I've seen a bunch of comments on various sites doubting the claims that "locals" bought the mountain. From what I've read, it seems like both dudes seem pretty connected to Killington and appear to have good intentions?
Aug 29 2024 3:27PM
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partyandBS
Posts: 4750 - Karma: 73,042
GrandThingsI've seen a bunch of comments on various sites doubting the claims that "locals" bought the mountain. From what I've read, it seems like both dudes seem pretty connected to Killington and appear to have good intentions?


there are safer and more lucrative investments you can do with your money than operate a seasonal asset like a ski resort especially when winters are getting shorter so my guess is that these dudes are passionate about skiing and killington. sounds like theyve been at least second home owners in the area for quite some time. love to see it and i hope it proves a good business model for them. living my dream over there lol.
Aug 29 2024 3:35PM
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Farmville420
Posts: 4796 - Karma: 61,517
partyandBSloses the strongest single force of park emphasis in the industry and you think thats going to be a good thing??

Killington before woodward was also a force in the industry for terrain parks. Woodward killington is actually a little worse than their parks used to be previously if anything
Aug 29 2024 5:45PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,806
I think with or without Woodward Killington parks will be chillin, but I'd be cautious about making assumptions about the new owners in regards to freestyle terrain. a 50+ yr old local has a way different outlook then locals under 30 and it takes some hard data/numbers to influence decisions on that level for people not in the park scene
Aug 29 2024 9:27PM
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midwestcoast
Posts: 205 - Karma: 2,093
Taken directly from the article.



Seems about as good as you could hope for under new ownership, no?
Aug 29 2024 11:04PM
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