Worth investing in new bidnings?

Rock_InhabitantYou might just need to crank your dins. I weigh 130 and in order to drop 20+ cliffs I need to put my dins +3 of recommended for my skier type. Idk abt your situation but that’s how I fixed my issues

SofaKingSickcan't say i'm shocked to hear that, because the attack 11s are kids'/beginner bindings, with slightly different construction etc than the other ones in the line. even moving up to any of the attacks that aren't 11 will be higher performance (the attack line, minus the 11s, are well-regarded bindings for sure). you can find 12, 13s, 14s for pretty cheap-- they're some of the most affordable bindings out there-- and that's especially true in the offseason like right now. so keep an eye out and grab some 12s or up and you'll probably be good to go

weatcoastHey sport, if you set din to 9 on both the attack 11 or attack 14, they’re gona both release at the same value and have the same “performance”.


If he’s within din range of the attack 11, there’s no use wasting money on the 14

SofaKingSicknaw dude, it's a fact that different bindings behave differently. by your logic, the shitty bindings from 20 years ago were all just as good as the modern ones, since they had the appropriate DIN range. what binding do you use and what's your DIN?

weatcoastHey sport, if you set din to 9 on both the attack 11 or attack 14, they’re gona both release at the same value and have the same “performance”.


If he’s within din range of the attack 11, there’s no use wasting money on the 14

SofaKingSicknaw dude, it's a fact that different bindings behave differently. by your logic, the shitty bindings from 20 years ago were all just as good as the modern ones, since they had the appropriate DIN range. what binding do you use and what's your DIN?

weatcoastMy logic wasn’t comparing a modern binding to a 20 year old binding.


it was comparing the two of the same model binding made by the same company just with different DIN ranges

You’re really showing your autism here with your failure to recognize subtleties in conversation. (It actually wasn’t even subtle because I specifically said attack 11/14, so you might just be retarded actually)

if you really think an attack 11 is going to ski any different than an attack 14 (assuming within DIN range on both), go ahead and waste your money but don’t go encouraging other people to do the same

to answer your question I have 2 skis with pivot 15 and attack 14 at 9 DIN and don’t notice a difference


**This post was edited on Jul 16th 2024 at 3:33:02pm

**This post was edited on Jul 16th 2024 at 3:35:49pm

SofaKingSickjust to ignore all the Internet Guy stuff and cut to the point-- they are not even the same model binding. kids' binding versus regular line binding. the kids' one has lower din, different crappier construction, higher ramp angle, i wouldn't be surprised if they have different amounts of elastic travel..

ive skied almost every binding out there in the past 20 years, there are absolutely differences between bindings, especially kids' bindings vs adult ones. it's great that you don't notice a difference for your use cases, enjoy, but there's a reason people spend money on nicer bindings and everyone isn't just using base model plastic shit like attack 11s, squires, z10s etc

weatcoastto answer your question I have 2 skis with pivot 15 and attack 14 at 9 DIN and don’t notice a difference


**This post was edited on Jul 16th 2024 at 3:33:02pm

**This post was edited on Jul 16th 2024 at 3:35:49pm

weatcoastI’m so confused. Attack 11 and attack 14
both have the same stack height and are both made of plastic. If you’re within the din range you’re not gonna notice a difference

SofaKingSickagain, different heelpiece (same toe i think), different ramp angle, different performance... yes you are confused, otherwise you wouldn't be calling people retards for saying kids' bindings are different from regular bindings

KalmarJalmarHow exactly do you know this difference personally when you made a thread last week asking about attacks?
I agree with you though, I can't really feel differences with those bindings.

Your other arguments would valid, but they are not since attack 11 is a different binding.

weatcoastI bought the attack 14 and it skis better than the pivot imo. Lighter weight and I feel more locked in. The pivot has some wiggle in the heel by design, even when forward pressure is correctly set.

weatcoastAttack 11 aren’t kids binding lol. Majority of skiers are within the din range

KalmarJalmarWhich one is it?

"to answer your question I have 2 skis with pivot 15 and attack 14 at 9 DIN and don’t notice a difference" or "I bought the attack 14 and it skis better than the pivot imo"

weatcoastI bought the attack 14 and it skis better than the pivot imo. Lighter weight and I feel more locked in. The pivot has some wiggle in the heel by design, even when forward pressure is correctly set.

PoikenzThe pivot is not designed to have any wiggle in the heel by design. If you are experiencing that, the binding is either improperly adjusted, fucked, or your boots are fucked.

To the OP. DIN charts are a little out of spec if you are skiing anything other than groomers. You can turn them up in half din increments until you find a happy place, but at that point it's on you.

Binding information- the heel of the 13/14 is more solid than the 11, the heel of the 16/17 is more solid than the 13/14. It is typically recommended that you pick a binding that puts you in the middle of the din range- for example the 17 has a din range of 6-17, to use this binding you'd want to be skiing a din around 11. This reasoning comes from the din being set by a spring and the spring being less reliable/ accurate at it's min and max pressure. I do think this is an older thought and probably has less issues today, not because of better technology, but because of liability/ purposely making the din range smaller.

With all that said, unless you have the cash, I'd stick with the 9 for now. I've known plenty of people who have ripped on lower tier bindings.

PoikenzThis reasoning comes from the din being set by a spring and the spring being less reliable/ accurate at it's min and max pressure. I do think this is an older thought and probably has less issues today, not because of better technology, but because of liability/ purposely making the din range smaller.

KalmarJalmarDIN is DIN ,not some magic number. I remember there was a thread years ago where some engineer mastermind debunked this.

PoikenzI believe that is more or less what I said. It's also why I recommended the op keep their current bindings even if they end up on the higher end.

If you really want to get into it, not every spring is created equally, and as with anything springs can wear out over time. That's why there are machines to test if your din in is range or not. Unless you are getting your bindings tested every year, or every time they need adjusting there is a good chance that they are slightly off. I have personally seen bindings be out by 1.5 from what is indicated on the binding.

PartyBullshiitWhich is exactly why there are so many reports of people who are at the right din yet still get ejected. There are too many variables which is why it’s always best to be in the middle of the din range of a binding rather than maxed or bottomed out. If you’re a 10 and you’re rocking an 11 din binding and the spring is off 1.5 like you say, you’re getting ejected and you have no room to move up. With attack 14’s being available for so cheap especially with all the sales there is no reason to not upgrade if you’re having ejection issues. All that being said in no world are attack 11/13/14’s better than pivot 15’s. People are just lying to themselves with that nonsense. Lighter yes. Better no.

weatcoastPivots are no better than attack 14’s, champ.


There are top X games and olympians skiing on attack 14’s so they can be trusted just as well as pivots. I’d say attack’s are actually better for the lighter swing weight in freestyle, and these top athletes have enough money to not need to worry about durability of metal or plastic because they get multiple new setups every season.


I actually can’t think of any reason why anybody would use pivots over attacks aside from durability which I addressed above, which I agree is a good selling point for regular people who can’t afford new gear every year

PartyBullshiitswing weight of bindings is a complete myth. Your bindings aren’t mounted at the tips and tails which is what would change your swing weight. Bindings being mounted directly under foot and in most cases near centered on skis has nothing to do with swing weight. The skis weight and tip and tail size will change the swing weight before a binding would ever change that. I see far more riders on pivots in free ride championships than attacks. It’s not even close.

PartyBullshiitNo matter how many times you keep spouting this nonsense it doesn’t make it any more true. In no world are attack 11/13/14 better than pivot 15’s. Period. The 12/14 pivots, they’re more on par with attacks with both being plastic. More durable means a better binding there champ, which again proves the point that they are better. Athletes have sponsors. They use what their sponsors tell them to use within the range. no one said attacks can’t be trusted. They are just of a Lower level in both performance and quality of pivot 15’s.

swing weight of bindings is a complete myth. Your bindings aren’t mounted at the tips and tails which is what would change your swing weight. Bindings being mounted directly under foot and in most cases near centered on skis has nothing to do with swing weight. The skis weight and tip and tail size will change the swing weight before a binding would ever change that. I see far more riders on pivots in free ride championships than attacks. It’s not even close.

I’m glad attacks work for YOU but that doesn’t change the fact more people who are at the pinnacle of skiing are on pivot 15/18’s. People who are skiing no fall zones and literally risking their lives aren’t choosing plastic attacks. They’re on pivots.

weatcoastListen champ, I completely agree with you that metal is more durable than plastic, and pivot 15 are better than attack 14 in that aspect for product lifespan. I also agree that the pivot 15 may have a better release “feel” due to the elasticity and tendency to keep you in the binding

but setting aside durability/release and talking purely performance (how the binding interacts with ski and boot), the attack 14 is going to be the exact same as pivot 15 if you’re within the din range. They both have almost the exact same stand height (17mm) and ramp delta angle (1-2mm), so power transmission from boot to ski to snow is going to be almost identical. They are both also gonna release at the same value.

let’s put it another way. If you’re sending huge tricks on 50 feet jumps or backcountry cliffs, I’d be just as comfortable on an attack 14 as a pivot 15, because they’re gonna perform the same.



I still disagree with you in that I still believe the weight difference between the two is significant enough that it would lessen the swing weight, but I don’t really have any data or material I can read to justify it other than my experience in preferring lighter skis and bindings after having tried both bindings and freestyle skis of different weights/construction, I lean towards the lighter ones because I don’t need heavy skis to charge through crud or heavy snow since I primarily ski in the park

PartyBullshiitIt’s only a sample size of one company but moment doesn’t choose plastic attacks or any plastic binding over pivots for a reason.

hot.pocketYes I do.

PartyBullshiitSo you agree that pivot 15’s are overall better than attacks. Cool glad we established that.

you won’t find any data on swing weight with bindings because it is a non issue due to where the weight is situated on the ski.

again I’m glad YOU feel comfortable taking 50ft jumps on plastic attacks, people with common sense would 100% disagree with you and again majority of people do this type of skiing are on pivots 15/18 for a reason. When you’re doing large jumps of fall lines why would someone choose an inferior piece of equipment over a proven to be more durably binding? They wouldn’t. It’s only a sample size of one company but moment doesn’t choose plastic attacks or any plastic binding over pivots for a reason. @tcurle @hot.pocket can both chime in as to why they all recommend and use pivots for their serious skiing.

weatcoastOk champ, I agree with you there’s plenty of gold medal and elite skiers on pivot 15’s.

but there’s also plenty of gold medal elite skiers on attack 14’s, whether that’s due to sponsorship or personal preference, they’re trusting their health and knees with attack 14’s. Just to name a few that you can see on Instagram, Cody laplante, Colby Stevenson, Jesper tjader, Phil Casabon are using attack 14’s and these are elite freestyle skiers with many achievements. If it’s good enough for them, it is for us regular people.

I feel like you’re overstating the importance of metal vs plastic. In the short term, how often are you really seeing plastic bindings blow up and break? Holding them in hand they’re solidly built. The track is also made of metal so it’s not going to rip out of the ski and worse than a pivot would. Yea if you’re dropping 50 foot cliffs that’s a huge drop, but it’s into soft snow and your ski absorbs most the impact. It’s not like you’re throwing a plastic binding off a cliff into hard cement. I could see plastic bindings breaking if you fall and hit a hard surface like a rail/box or a rock cliff, but thats not really happening that often for an elite level skier.

PartyBullshiitReally? I stand corrected. I’ve always been told by you guys pivots over everything else. Especially from Tyler and Luke.

hot.pocketWe stock the Strive in the store and all three of us recommend it (alongside the Pivot, stating pros and cons of both) to almost every customer that walks in the door.

Most of us have Strives on some of our personal skis too.

hot.pocketWe stock the Strive in the store and all three of us recommend it (alongside the Pivot, stating pros and cons of both) to almost every customer that walks in the door.

Most of us have Strives on some of our personal skis too.

weatcoastCan you share your general thoughts on the strive? Pros and cons, etc.

weatcoastCan you share your general thoughts on the strive? Pros and cons, etc.

hot.pocketMore immediate power transfer left to right and more planted compared to the Pivot.
Makes the ski slightly less surfy but gives it more authority.
I prefer it on my groomer / carving skis for more precise edge control.

weatcoastinteresting, yea i share the same opinion of the pivot, but i described it more as having "wiggle room" but i think your description of surfy is more accurate. that's probably why i prefer my attack 14. the strive sounds to be similar.

tcurlePivots over everything

PartyBullshiitI will say I love my strives And I’ve had nothing but good experience with them. One big benefit that I like about them personally over the STH2 Models is the fact you no longer need to adjust the toe wings. If your wings on the STH2 Came even slightly unadjusted you would get a lot of pre-release which was a major complaint. The strive with the auto toe Is way more user-friendly. The fact that the strive 16 Also shares the more heavy duty metal heel From the STH2 16s is a big benefit for durability. One big complaint is people think the toes look absolutely hideous compared to the older STH toe, I personally prefer the look of the strive toe

and just to be clear, I also have Attacks.

Vzxthe top sheet on those deathwish 112 is so clean 🤩.

PartyBullshiitAttacks weren’t my first binding choice but the price was right and the color looks amazing with that ts and sidewalls.

weatcoastDon’t worry once you ski those next season, you’ll only want to use the attack 14’s. Very good binding.

PartyBullshiitI’ve been skiing them for a season already. I still don’t like attacks and won’t be buying anymore. Pivots>strives>sth2’s are the only bindings I’ll buy.

weatcoastI respect your opinion and agree mostly, but my worst injury in all of my years of skiing were on the strive binding so I’ll never use those. Ski prereleased while landing switch, off a rail that was low to the ground. Wasn’t even a shuffled landing either. I ski on 9 din on all bindings and it felt like I had to turn it up to 11 on those to stay in my skis. I was literally able to release my binding just from leaning forward with one foot in the lift line.