Getting bought by Vail=Bad Parks?

The people with the most days lose the resort the most money. Parks are expensive and attract season-pass skiers who will ski a lot. The money making crowd are the people who fly in, blow 2000$ on day passes and hotel, and only ski for a week. Unfortunately parks aren’t profitable

Yeah and I feel that has become a precedent for their resorts (Even tho my local is not a resort at all it’s like 10 miles from any towns) vail resorts seem to fit a cookie cutter mold now

hunter parks was real bad for a couple years but i think its regaining its footing now
stuff is actually looking decent which is way more than i can say for previous years
the crew seems to be doing well they're doing fun stuff with what they've got

I don't know much about liability and legal aspects of running a park...but maybe that has something to do with it. Also agree that parks take up a lot of resources (thanks park crew) and park rats don't spend a lot of money (at least I don't)

Ski areas make money of real estate not park rats. Also parks are super labor/snowmaking intensive and super expensive to insure I think. Vail is in the business of making money not making park rats happy

I think they do want to kill parks but when it hurts business they're forced to actually put money into parks. They were able to completely kill big boulder without financial strain but when they tried chopping places like Carinthia or Springs they wound up actually losing enough money that they were forced to reinvest.

Yup. = Bad. Look at Big Boulder. Used to be mecca for east coast park rats. Now it’s a boring, flat little piece of shit.

Rock_InhabitantThe people with the most days lose the resort the most money. Parks are expensive and attract season-pass skiers who will ski a lot. The money making crowd are the people who fly in, blow 2000$ on day passes and hotel, and only ski for a week. Unfortunately parks aren’t profitable

Yes to all of this but also I think Vail is carefully choosing their battles here.

Their largest competitors are Ikon members Powdr (who's taking over the park scene with Woodward) and Alterra (who's happy to let resorts like Mammoth and Sugarbush keep their awesome parks going). I don't think there's zero money in park, but there isn't enough to justify challenging los Ikones cartel here.

My guess is Vail is more interested in the ways they can beat their competitors, namely an Epic pass is always cheaper than an Ikon pass, and they do a good job at targeting somewhat more casual skiers in metro areas

Idk but 3 kings rips

It really is. Big parks like Northstar, Carinthia, etc still have big parks, but smaller scale than what they had. One of the reasons Northstar kept up with it was having the same mananger and many of the crew since the old days before Vail.

I've heard a lot of complaints about Park City and probably justified but was cool to see someone post a pretty good size jump there this season.

PWDR has really invested big with the woodward thing. They've connected their brand of ski resorts with parks, the other facilities.

Alterra is a big Vail competitor obviously and still has Mammoth building some huge stuff and everything in between. Some of their other mtns have a smaller park.

Breck and Keystone really scaled back, beaver creeks park all but died, big boulder PA RIP, seemed like they tried to scale back Carinthia more but had a ton of pushback.

Seems like if it's blatantly obvious that the park is doing good business they'll keep it decent but it degrades a bit initially and over time.

Trying to think of when Vail got rid of the US open. Also they got rid of the dew tour. Vail really doesn't like events in the park big or small.

I think thats one of the shittiest things. The parks get scaled back but the culture get's completely stripped sometimes.

Like a rail jam can just be 3 features and a return feature(or not if you're lame) 1 person could build a drop in and a pad and set them and do the handwork in a couple hours. A couple vollunteer judges or park crew after they run the ropeline etc. Can get products donated easy. Idk, get a bunch of people stoked. Hell some parents don't ride park at all but they bring their kid to the rail jams.

Vail just has a blind spot to anything less than trying to nickle and dime the wealthiest people. If 50 kids are stoked who cares.

Vail is like some super generic office space. It works and it makes money, but it's white walls, fluorescent lights, amd endless grey cubicles. It's bland. But they make money and that's all it's about.

Ski areas are a business. A bunch of small mom and pops went out or got bought up because they weren't profitable enough as is. But there are plenty of thriving places that do well and care about the experience. Its always about $$$, but Vail stops there.

While Vail isn't doing terrain parks any favors, [company redacted but rhymes with Schwoodward]'s budget at my local has been chopped by Powdr Corp. No more overtime for day crew or cat ops. You would think a big brand like Schwoodies wouldn't let this happen, or would be able to send more $ if they have it, but they're really just a name.
The best parks I'm seeing are mostly at independently-owned mountains. I'm not going to sit here and say my mountain's park sucks because it doesn't, even with the budget cuts we are putting together pretty good setups. Cutting OT for hand crew is one thing but when you cut OT for park cat operators things tend to be a little lamer. What's the incentive for having an insane setup if we can't work enough hours to maintain it properly? The chain reaction of whatever-dudeism and severe cases of the fuckits will continue to trend upwardly at certain mountains that cut funding until the parks are a fraction as cool/fun as they should be.

mad river apparently used to have a bomb park(it’s my first season but it looked fire when Line TC went pre-Vail), and now they’ve had the same setup all year with a max of 5 rails in a line and no jumps. can’t say it’s 100% Vails fault, but probably like 98%

Assets and Liability protection, because people ski like shit and get into stuff thats way over their heads.

Teedubb24I don't know much about liability and legal aspects of running a park...but maybe that has something to do with it. Also agree that parks take up a lot of resources (thanks park crew) and park rats don't spend a lot of money (at least I don't)

open up a yomie shop at all the vail resorts and profits will start flyin in

I'd say if most of the staff is retained after purchase not much would change for the parks.

Parks at small mountain rely a lot on local people keeping them going, not very likely that anyone has the budget to entice someone to move to town to make a good park program. Literally one person leaving can make a good park turn to shit.

There are still plenty of mega-type resorts that still keep their park builds legit. Winter Park looks insane with Rail Yard and having features all over the place that are S/M parks. My patrol director has over 30 years of experience working in the east coast and stands by the idea that resorts still need park setups because they do generate skier numbers and bring people up to the hill. Our park isn't much at all but I'll still see people ski it on pow days and any weather so theres definitely interest in it, whether it be dads taking their little kids over rollers, park rats, or people who want to learn how to slide rails.

TOAST.I'd say if most of the staff is retained after purchase not much would change for the parks.

Parks at small mountain rely a lot on local people keeping them going, not very likely that anyone has the budget to entice someone to move to town to make a good park program. Literally one person leaving can make a good park turn to shit.

This

blackcomb parks are still good

Rock_InhabitantThe people with the most days lose the resort the most money. Parks are expensive and attract season-pass skiers who will ski a lot. The money making crowd are the people who fly in, blow 2000$ on day passes and hotel, and only ski for a week. Unfortunately parks aren’t profitable

You should see how much these places charge for personal ski school…2500 bucks A DAY!!!

SmokedGoudaYou should see how much these places charge for personal ski school…2500 bucks A DAY!!!

Oh my god that’s fucking insane. The ski team with full time coaching 3 days a week at my mountain is 2500$ a year. What kind of people are paying this much for a single day of coaching?? It better have a whole ass massage routine with a 5 star meal included

SmokedGoudaYou should see how much these places charge for personal ski school…2500 bucks A DAY!!!

WHAT THE FUCK. For a private????? Vail is making hella bank while the employees get paid shit. I actually made more being a ski school attendant than being an instructor.

BallClapperWHAT THE FUCK. For a private????? Vail is making hella bank while the employees get paid shit. I actually made more being a ski school attendant than being an instructor.

Well its the window rate for a private group of 1-6 so if one person is skiing with an instructor they would have paid either the 2500 window rate or the 1600 online rate…and is expected to tip 15-20%

That's why people do the lesson/guide things on the side in ski towns. People pay way less money and you get 100%. Technically you're not allowed to buy whatever. My roommate did it in Tahoe. He'd buy an ikon and epic but his lessons would pay for it and then some.

Private all day is insane at some mtns.

theabortionatorThat's why people do the lesson/guide things on the side in ski towns. People pay way less money and you get 100%. Technically you're not allowed to buy whatever. My roommate did it in Tahoe. He'd buy an ikon and epic but his lessons would pay for it and then some.

Private all day is insane at some mtns.

It can become an issue if you get "figured-out" in terms of Theft of Services. Resorts will throw the book at you if you aren't careful.

GayWolf420It can become an issue if you get "figured-out" in terms of Theft of Services. Resorts will throw the book at you if you aren't careful.

Yeah i know it's massively frowned upon but seems like it would be hard to get caught. Idk. I haven't taught in years. There's so many people at the big mtns. Im not sure how people go about finding clients but once youre at the mountain you're just a couple skiing.

theabortionatorYeah i know it's massively frowned upon but seems like it would be hard to get caught. Idk. I haven't taught in years. There's so many people at the big mtns. Im not sure how people go about finding clients but once youre at the mountain you're just a couple skiing.

Lol yeah pretty much. I guess if they see you with different people everyday then they might catch on. Maybe a sting operation to get you to give a lesson to an undercover.

TheButterHashiraLol yeah pretty much. I guess if they see you with different people everyday then they might catch on. Maybe a sting operation to get you to give a lesson to an undercover.

Im not bullshitting either. My friend got blacklisted from VR for just simply teaching their little cousin how to ski.

GayWolf420Im not bullshitting either. My friend got blacklisted from VR for just simply teaching their little cousin how to ski.

I don't believe this. 100% more to the story than just teaching their cousin.

TOAST.I don't believe this. 100% more to the story than just teaching their cousin.

They bitched-out a yellow jacket for being an asshole.

SmokedGoudaWell its the window rate for a private group of 1-6 so if one person is skiing with an instructor they would have paid either the 2500 window rate or the 1600 online rate…and is expected to tip 15-20%

I believe it but still, thats utter bullshit.