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October, 2024

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Boa has entered the chat….

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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
My new k2 recon 130 boas arrived today. Overall really pleased with the purchase. These are going to be my resort dedicated boots. I also have rossignol 110 alltrack pros as a hybrid boot for 50/50 use.

I’ve really wanted to get into the new boa since they were all announced last season but I wasn’t able to try any on for some time so wasn’t willing to spend the high cost at that point considering my Rossi’s are in really great shape.

I was out west a little earlier in the year and had a chance to get into a store and try on some boas. The k2’s agreed with my feet a lot but as mentioned at the time wasn’t looking to spend $800 just for boa when I had solid boots. Figured I’d wait a season or 2 for prices to come down a little.

fast forward to BFCM, sales started hitting places but it seemed boas were not on many sales and if they were it wasn’t much which makes sense. Still new models.

Checked out my go to Corbetts and was blown away by the boa sales. Ended up paying $497 shipped for the 24 recon 130 boa. At that price it was an absolute no brainer to pull the trigger. Already tried on. Knew they fit. Price was too good.

they arrived today. Threw on the ski socks, put my inserts in and been rocking the boots around the house for 2 hours now. I only rocked them for about 15 mins in store. Wasn’t able to stay longer. Nothing really shocking on general fit. They feel good. Which I already knew. Going to do a home liner molding to get the ball rolling. I don’t foresee any issues with the shell or needing to mod it. Didn’t need any work on my Rossi shell either.

the big positives. The boa closure
is just great. The way it allows the boot to wrap your foot is kind of insane. I’ll make a video showing but you clearly see the shell “wrap” not pinch closed like buckles.

the feeling in boot is just more comfortable. You feel “wrapped” when in the boot rather than closed into the boot if that makes sense. I just feel like out of the box the fit is so much better from the start. To be clear I also tried on the older 130 recon with buckles. The feeling is different. You “feel” the buckles on the older ones. Like where the buckles are applying pressure. Where as the boa you feel more even “pressure” over your entire foot hence the “wrapped” feeling.

it is more burly than any other boa I’ve ever felt. By a lot. The dial feels flimsy but it’s just basic plastic. Which it feels like. But I assume that’s a pro for ease of replacement and weight.

Also included different heel inserts to make them more “mellow” for impacts. I do plan to swap to the softer ones. As well as your usual liner laces, some pads for the tongue to change some shape and some wedges as well.

now onto the negative. For me at this point there is only one. They are so fucking hard to get in and out of. This was not unique to the k2’s when I tried boots on. I tried the k2, atomic and Salomon. Atomic was insane hard, k2 slightly easier with Salomon being easiest. All of them are harder than any buckle boots I’ve tried. For me this is minimal. Only deal with it getting in. And once you’re in it’s like any other boot. Getting out for me was just was easy as buckles.

that’s really all I have atm. I leave sat to breck and will be using them there then headed to beaver creek in Jan. So I’ll update as I use them.

feel free to ask any questions if you’re curious or want some specific pics.
















Dec 3 2023 6:45PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,895
PartyBullshiitYou keep saying this and it may be true for your foot but it is not true across the board. The boa was for a fact harder for me to step into than the buckle version side by side. Foot shape will have a lot to do with this.

secondly I am not the only person to have this reaction. Here’s a direct quote from a reviewer. They’ve not been the only one to mention harder entry.

“Additionally, since the BOA cable doesn’t completely open like the buckles do, there’s a touch more resistance from an entry perspective. For skiers that have had a difficult time getting boots on in the past, this is something to consider. I didn’t find it to be a deal-breaker in the least, but it is noticeable.”

others mileage may vary but to say across the board they are not harder to get into is just not true.




https://www.skiessentials.com/Chairlift-Chat/2024-salomon-s-pro-supra-120-boa-ski-boot-review

What boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.

That reviewer of the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA boot can't say that the Supra is harder to put on due to the BOA system because they don't have the same boot with buckles to run the comparison against. It doesn't exist. The S/Pro Supra BOA might actually be harder to put on vs. the previous generation S/Pro with buckles or other boots in its category, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Different mold geometries and different plastic thicknesses are at play, not just a difference in closure systems.

Now, can a brand spec the wrong cable length and cause some issues regarding step-in? Yes, absolutely possible. But if there is ample cable in the system, it shouldn't be getting in the way of anything. But this would be a spec issue, not one related to the BOA system itself being the culprit.

To make things even more murky, every ski boot brand will face plastic hardness tolerances from the plastic manufacturers. You can easily get a boot that is between 7-10% stiffer or softer from batch to batch in the same model of boot. The harder the plastic, the more difficult the step-in.

All I'm saying is that there lots of variables at play when comparing the step-in of one boot to another. You need to eliminate as many variables from the equation as possible to truly know what is causing what. In the case of Atomic, barring a production error or spec error, there shouldn't be a difference between the step-in of the BOA vs. the buckle version of the same boot.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:44:21pm
Dec 6 2023 1:42PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
onenerdykidWhat boots were you comparing side by side? The same exact boot but one with buckles and one with BOA? As far as I am aware, only Atomic and Fischer are using the same mold for both closure systems. Salomon isn't and I believe the buckle versions of the K2 are also a different mold series- Tom let me know if that's not the case.

That reviewer of the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA boot can't say that the Supra is harder to put on due to the BOA system because they don't have the same boot with buckles to run the comparison against. It doesn't exist. The S/Pro Supra BOA might actually be harder to put on vs. the previous generation S/Pro with buckles or other boots in its category, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. Different mold geometries and different plastic thicknesses are at play, not just a difference in closure systems.

Now, can a brand spec the wrong cable length and cause some issues regarding step-in? Yes, absolutely possible. But if there is ample cable in the system, it shouldn't be getting in the way of anything. But this would be a spec issue, not one related to the BOA system itself being the culprit.

To make things even more murky, every ski boot brand will face plastic hardness tolerances from the plastic manufacturers. You can easily get a boot that is between 7-10% stiffer or softer from batch to batch in the same model of boot. The harder the plastic, the more difficult the step-in.

All I'm saying is that there lots of variables at play when comparing the step-in of one boot to another. You need to eliminate as many variables from the equation as possible to truly know what is causing what. In the case of Atomic, barring a production error or spec error, there shouldn't be a difference between the step-in of the BOA vs. the buckle version of the same boot.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:44:21pm


Yes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.

I also tried on the atomic and Salomon but did not try on the buckle version of those as they just didn’t fit well for me from the start.

Again I completely hear what you are saying but as mentioned many times I’m not the only one who’s had issues with getting into boas.

for someone who harps so much on peoples foot shape and why fitting is so important I’m kind of shocked you’re trying to say boa isn’t harder across the board. That just isn’t the case. Feet shape matters. Just to point that even more my left foot is slightly harder to get into boots than my right. And that’s across the board boot wise for me. Because of foot shape. so I’m glad you don’t have any issues getting into boa but I do. As well as others. So for me personally. Yes boa is harder to get into than buckles.
Dec 6 2023 1:56PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,495
PartyBullshiitYes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.

I also tried on the atomic and Salomon but did not try on the buckle version of those as they just didn’t fit well for me from the start.

Again I completely hear what you are saying but as mentioned many times I’m not the only one who’s had issues with getting into boas.

for someone who harps so much on peoples foot shape and why fitting is so important I’m kind of shocked you’re trying to say boa isn’t harder across the board. That just isn’t the case. Feet shape matters. Just to point that even more my left foot is slightly harder to get into boots than my right. And that’s across the board boot wise for me. Because of foot shape. so I’m glad you don’t have any issues getting into boa but I do. As well as others. So for me personally. Yes boa is harder to get into than buckles.

Just Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same. We designed the boa boot from the ground up for boa rather than trying to make a shell work for buckles and boa. We thought it was really important to build a boa boot and then keep our existing buckle boots as we do not believe you can have both closure systems on the same boot and get the best from both systems.
Dec 6 2023 2:31PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
tomPietrowskiJust Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same. We designed the boa boot from the ground up for boa rather than trying to make a shell work for buckles and boa. We thought it was really important to build a boa boot and then keep our existing buckle boots as we do not believe you can have both closure systems on the same boot and get the best from both systems.

I’ve understood that before I made this thread. I did an insane amount of research prior to even getting a chance to try them on the first time. I’ve watched all the blister videos from the summit event from each manufacturer regarding their new lineups and what was new etc. I didn’t just jump on board because it looked cool.



my general point was I tried both the standard buckle and boa 130 recon on side by side, and for my feet the boa is harder. Again I’m only speaking to my feet.

I did let my gf try my boots on as well as we wear the same size, and for her personally it was harder to get into the boa than her current rossignol alltrack.

i can absolutely see why some would have zero issue regardless of boa or not. I can also fully understand why myself and others have a harder time getting in boa. It’s not one or the other.
Dec 6 2023 2:56PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,895
PartyBullshiitYes I tried on both k2’s in buckle and boa. Same boot.


tomPietrowskiJust Fyi although they look similar our boa and buckle boots are not the same.


PartyBullshiitI’ve understood that before I made this thread. I did an insane amount of research prior to even getting a chance to try them on the first time. I’ve watched all the blister videos from the summit event from each manufacturer regarding their new lineups and what was new etc. I didn’t just jump on board because it looked cool.



my general point was I tried both the standard buckle and boa 130 recon on side by side, and for my feet the boa is harder. Again I’m only speaking to my feet.

I did let my gf try my boots on as well as we wear the same size, and for her personally it was harder to get into the boa than her current rossignol alltrack.

i can absolutely see why some would have zero issue regardless of boa or not. I can also fully understand why myself and others have a harder time getting in boa. It’s not one or the other.

I'm not saying this to be argumentative or pedantic - this topic is not about people's foot shape. The K2 Recon BOA and Recon buckle are not the same boot- they do not have the exact, same shell construction with different closure systems. This is not a question about foot shape, it's not about BOA vs. buckle - it's about shell construction, plastic thickness, and material choices. Same goes for your girlfriend comparing a BOA boot to a Rossignol buckle boot. Plastic thickness, material choices, last shape are all too different between that Rossi and the K2 for you or her to arrive at the conclusion that it is the BOA making the K2 boot harder to put on. Was the Rossi easier to put on? I have no doubt that it was, but it's not because it was a buckle boot.
Dec 6 2023 3:50PM
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WaffleStomper
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just got the salomon boa 130s. A+
Dec 6 2023 4:14PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
onenerdykidI'm not saying this to be argumentative or pedantic - this topic is not about people's foot shape. The K2 Recon BOA and Recon buckle are not the same boot- they do not have the exact, same shell construction with different closure systems. This is not a question about foot shape, it's not about BOA vs. buckle - it's about shell construction, plastic thickness, and material choices. Same goes for your girlfriend comparing a BOA boot to a Rossignol buckle boot. Plastic thickness, material choices, last shape are all too different between that Rossi and the K2 for you or her to arrive at the conclusion that it is the BOA making the K2 boot harder to put on. Was the Rossi easier to put on? I have no doubt that it was, but it's not because it was a buckle boot.


Just to be clear I in no way think you’re being argumentative and I appreciate you adding your thoughts and knowledge into the thread. I am in no way an expert and only voicing my opinion on my experiences.
Dec 6 2023 5:33PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
WaffleStomperjust got the salomon boa 130s. A+

Nice man. Congrats. The Salomon was a really nice boot. Granted I tried the 120 as the 130 wasn’t in store yet, but it was a really nice boot overall. It just didn’t fit my foot well personally.
Dec 6 2023 5:34PM
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WaffleStomper
Posts: 24 - Karma: 51
PartyBullshiitNice man. Congrats. The Salomon was a really nice boot. Granted I tried the 120 as the 130 wasn’t in store yet, but it was a really nice boot overall. It just didn’t fit my foot well personally.


I had to put in J pads on my heel and some extra in the toe both on my right boot and 2mm risers under each but otherwise they're great. I've been searching for years
Dec 6 2023 5:47PM
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kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
Now that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.
Dec 6 2023 6:14PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
kylemcleanNow that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.


Not sure if you’ve seen the new head race boot with double boa. I noticed they put the cuff boa further towards the rear of the cuff.
Dec 6 2023 7:35PM
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kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
PartyBullshiitNot sure if you’ve seen the new head race boot with double boa. I noticed they put the cuff boa further towards the rear of the cuff.


This is what made me thing of it. Wasn’t as worried about the cuff boa but rather the one for the forefoot, would need less angle to get that down before the cuff an seems like there’s less room to move it around without impeding closure.
Dec 6 2023 9:48PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,895
kylemcleanNow that we’re seeing these on plug boots have there been any issues with the know dragging when really laying over on aggressive turns or is the placement high enough up it’s not an issue?

Obviously can happen on any models but those high angle turns are more common in a race setting, probably also wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of skiers since they can’t lean them over that much.


Yes, it is an issue for many racers. In fact, if you see any racers using BOA in an actual race this year, they will most likely need to use a double BOA configuration where both are mounted on the cuff for this exact reason.

Shell-mounted BOA drags on snow, especially for GS, and it is too exposed for Slalom. Therefore, the BOA that controls the shell needs to be moved to the cuff. When that happens it creates a bit of a domino effect where now it gets in the way of the cuff buckles and cuff buckles cannot be used. This is where the cuff-mounted BOA comes into play.

Testing is still on-going.
Dec 7 2023 1:52AM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2514 - Karma: 9,862
onenerdykidPossibly sometime in the future. But not now, now.


damn that's lame.
Dec 7 2023 9:58AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
First day out. Absolutely fantastic. Actually skied part of the day with the left boa completely loose. Forgot to tighten it when I started chatting with someone. Never noticed. Still felt locked in.





Dec 10 2023 9:41PM
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Juviticus
Posts: 352 - Karma: 1,812
PartyBullshiitFirst day out. Absolutely fantastic. Actually skied part of the day with the left boa completely loose. Forgot to tighten it when I started chatting with someone. Never noticed. Still felt locked in.







Sounds like a perfect fit, that's what we like to hear!
Dec 11 2023 3:50PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
Day 2. Absolutely loving the boa boots. Had a great day n the mountain. Did notice ice build up a lot more around the boa dial than my older buckles. That being said, when I pop the boa knob, all the ice dumps right out.

looking to do custom inserts asap. My super feets suck in the recon.
Dec 11 2023 9:33PM
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PartyBullshiit
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Dec 11 2023 9:34PM
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homies3xual
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Can confirm they're more difficult to get on than a buckle boot. I got the Hawx 130 Boas and goddamn they were tight. Like "Did you guys ship me a mislabeled 26/26.5?" tight (I wear 27.5). I never owned the Hawx 130 with buckles but I did try them on a few times and there is a noticeable difference. Had to give the shells some mild heat to soften things up and after some around the house wearing sessions they're getting better. Yes, the Boa is sick. Yes, it feels really good. Is it life changing over buckles? Highly doubtful. Very curious to see my own and others post-season thoughts.

**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2023 at 11:54:58am
Dec 12 2023 11:54AM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
homies3xualCan confirm they're more difficult to get on than a buckle boot. I got the Hawx 130 Boas and goddamn they were tight. Like "Did you guys ship me a mislabeled 26/26.5?" tight (I wear 27.5). I never owned the Hawx 130 with buckles but I did try them on a few times and there is a noticeable difference. Had to give the shells some mild heat to soften things up and after some around the house wearing sessions they're getting better. Yes, the Boa is sick. Yes, it feels really good. Is it life changing over buckles? Highly doubtful. Very curious to see my own and others post-season thoughts.

**This post was edited on Dec 12th 2023 at 11:54:58am

Thanks for adding your experience with the atomics.
Dec 12 2023 12:14PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
Well got to test out some durability today. Was skiing trees all day. Nailed a hidden stump and got thrown off line, nailed a few sticks and branches. Went right up the boot and nailed the boa.

had no clue till I got home and took the boots off. Had some wood chunks in the dial. Nothing broke. The knob didn’t even pop off

just snapped some pics and noticed I nailed the other knob and boot too. Again nothing damaged. So far so good.









Dec 12 2023 7:48PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.
Dec 13 2023 9:06PM
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PartyBullshiit
Posts: 3812 - Karma: 17,270
a_pla5tic_bag^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.

I mean in the park they should be fine. If you nail the knob it pops off but is held on the boot and should just click back into place.
Dec 13 2023 9:13PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,495
a_pla5tic_bag^ that's intriguing. I'm worried about damaging them when skiing park though. You think that's going to be ok when skiing rails? Also I like using my slalom skis but I don't think get low enough frequent enough to worry about hitting the dial on the ground.

3 out of the 4 of us on the k2 boot engineering team are park skiers so they have been used in the park a bunch during the development. No issues to report.
Dec 13 2023 11:36PM
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