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Cam help

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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
I know you've seen more than enough threads asking "what camera should I get" etc. But I'm more so looking for a budget used camera (~500 mark) with similar footage to something like a HVX/HPX/HMC. I'd love to buy any one of these, but P2 cards from what I've heard are 1. hard to come by and overly expensive because of that and 2. hard to work with. What're some solid options to shoot follow cams but also pass off to the homies if I wanna be filmed as well? I'll attach some videos below of the type of footage I'm really looking for. I usually use Premiere Pro for editing and have a PC that runs decently well but I've never taken footage directly off a cam and have pretty zero experience with anything other than SD cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuHj0Dj_-28&list=PLnIzbh-WuT6EFmmNh0e7cRiWdneuhsUGp&index=33 (I really like the look of the fisheye at 0:19)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T78AsFXI5zM&list=PLnIzbh-WuT6EFmmNh0e7cRiWdneuhsUGp&index=31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOOt6KatDBE&list=PLnIzbh-WuT6EFmmNh0e7cRiWdneuhsUGp&index=27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kt01Qzx6SA&list=PLnIzbh-WuT6EFmmNh0e7cRiWdneuhsUGp&index=26 (shots like 1:56)
Nov 14 2023 6:27PM
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860media*
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 10,519
IMO for that price point look at the Panasonic Hmc40 if you haven't already they are prob pretty cheap now and you can adapt a fisheye thatll give you that effect! Also, they take SD cards so you'll have no problem working with the files.
Nov 14 2023 11:59PM
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Christian_Bale
Posts: 1892 - Karma: 21,249
From what I can tell, Hunk patrol was filmed on an hpx and paakku was filmed on an hmc. P2 cards are not hard to work with, in my experience (only need usb mini A), but they are pretty expensive. I was able to get a good deal on my first hvx and 64 gb p2 card but if you look around and don't find any good prices then I wouldn't recommend an hvx. To sum up my opinions on the 3 cams:

hvx: usually cheapest option, heavy (has a tape deck), p2, worse sensor, worse in low light than other cams
hpx: lighter than hvx, p2, more settings options than hvx,
hmc: lighter than both cams, SD cards (footage takes up less space on card but more compressed)

For the fisheye I definitely recommend opteka 72mm (kapur is also identical). Best fisheye for the price. Downside is that they're pretty common and easily recognizable. xtremes are the best but they cost an ungodly amount of money these days. mk1 is dope but they're expensive and you'd need to modify it or get some sort of attachment for it.
Nov 15 2023 2:04AM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
860media*IMO for that price point look at the Panasonic Hmc40 if you haven't already they are prob pretty cheap now and you can adapt a fisheye thatll give you that effect! Also, they take SD cards so you'll have no problem working with the files.


what are some general rule of thumb sites I should routinely check? I usually go adorama but most of the HMC’s I see as of right are already sold out.
Nov 15 2023 10:41AM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
Christian_BaleFrom what I can tell, Hunk patrol was filmed on an hpx and paakku was filmed on an hmc. P2 cards are not hard to work with, in my experience (only need usb mini A), but they are pretty expensive. I was able to get a good deal on my first hvx and 64 gb p2 card but if you look around and don't find any good prices then I wouldn't recommend an hvx. To sum up my opinions on the 3 cams:

hvx: usually cheapest option, heavy (has a tape deck), p2, worse sensor, worse in low light than other cams
hpx: lighter than hvx, p2, more settings options than hvx,
hmc: lighter than both cams, SD cards (footage takes up less space on card but more compressed)

For the fisheye I definitely recommend opteka 72mm (kapur is also identical). Best fisheye for the price. Downside is that they're pretty common and easily recognizable. xtremes are the best but they cost an ungodly amount of money these days. mk1 is dope but they're expensive and you'd need to modify it or get some sort of attachment for it.


By footage more compressed, is that more of a con? I don’t really know. I’ve found plenty of listings for HMC40’s in the 400-600 range but they’re 1. Either sold or 2. Beat up. how do I know when a listing is a good one what should I really be searching for. I’d imagine there’s many things to be careful for and immediate red flags I should watch for when looking for a cam.
Nov 15 2023 10:45AM
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Woody.
Posts: 428 - Karma: 4,716
steez_apprenticeBy footage more compressed, is that more of a con? I don’t really know. I’ve found plenty of listings for HMC40’s in the 400-600 range but they’re 1. Either sold or 2. Beat up. how do I know when a listing is a good one what should I really be searching for. I’d imagine there’s many things to be careful for and immediate red flags I should watch for when looking for a cam.


Always be checking facebook marketplace and craiglist. Ebay is good to but a bit sketchier just make sure the buyer looks legit and sends info like tracking number etc. I would 100% recommended hmc40. Good price point and super user friendly + easy to pass around. As fair as what to look for low operating hours are ideal.
Nov 15 2023 11:49AM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
Woody.Always be checking facebook marketplace and craiglist. Ebay is good to but a bit sketchier just make sure the buyer looks legit and sends info like tracking number etc. I would 100% recommended hmc40. Good price point and super user friendly + easy to pass around. As fair as what to look for low operating hours are ideal.


Like sub-100 hours? Is it necessarily bad if I get one with like 300? and what if the listing is missing a few things that usually come with the cam, what’s some big nonos to look out for damage on the camera or missing components
Nov 15 2023 12:11PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
For example, I found a listing on eBay for 450, but it has 258 hours used. what’s like the limit I should be looking for
Nov 15 2023 12:17PM
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860media*
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 10,519
Facebook Marketplace or Ebay is your best bet. A lot of churches and places use to use them to document stuff so sometimes you can score one for cheap. Bless them
steez_apprenticewhat are some general rule of thumb sites I should routinely check? I usually go adorama but most of the HMC’s I see as of right are already sold out.
Nov 15 2023 12:58PM
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Christian_Bale
Posts: 1892 - Karma: 21,249
steez_apprenticeBy footage more compressed, is that more of a con? I don’t really know. I’ve found plenty of listings for HMC40’s in the 400-600 range but they’re 1. Either sold or 2. Beat up. how do I know when a listing is a good one what should I really be searching for. I’d imagine there’s many things to be careful for and immediate red flags I should watch for when looking for a cam.

I think it's both. HMC footage is AVCHD and hpx/hvx footage is DVCProHD. The latter has a higher bitrate. According to people online, the DVCProHD is preferable since you have "have way more space to play with colour and grading in post" and get a "far a better, kinder , more gentle codec than AVCHD." I don't know if this actually mattters in the end, especially when you upload to youtube. However, the footage being compressed means it takes up less space on an SD card.

For buying cams, it's always good to buy one in person if you can (FB marketplace). Naturally check operating hours and verify that all the operations work. Find out what they used the cam for and why they're selling it. I would be a lot more cautious if someone used the cam for filming skiing/skating/etc since it's gonna have more wear and tear. A lot of cams are only used to film tripod shots of meetings and church gatherings so they'll usually be in better condition even if they have higher operating hours. Also good idea to check the tripod thread to see how used it looks.

If you're buying online, ebay has buyer protection. I've never had a bad experience on ebay, but you can get your money back if the camera doesn't match the description. Just make sure you read the listing properly and if it's vague then you can ask questions about it.
Nov 15 2023 1:19PM
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Woody.
Posts: 428 - Karma: 4,716
steez_apprenticeLike sub-100 hours? Is it necessarily bad if I get one with like 300? and what if the listing is missing a few things that usually come with the cam, what’s some big nonos to look out for damage on the camera or missing components


nah couple hundred is super chill. I'd be more worried if it's in the thousands. Even then its not a deal breaker just something to consider fs. I mean if the camera has any damage prolly dont buy it but if its missing like a rubber eye piece or lens cap its chill. Mostly is common sense, if its a piece you can replace that isn't mechanical you should be okay. Make sure especially on ebay the listing isn't for parts
Nov 17 2023 11:41AM
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Woody.
Posts: 428 - Karma: 4,716
steez_apprenticeLike sub-100 hours? Is it necessarily bad if I get one with like 300? and what if the listing is missing a few things that usually come with the cam, what’s some big nonos to look out for damage on the camera or missing components


nah couple hundred is super chill. I'd be more worried if it's in the thousands. Even then its not a deal breaker just something to consider fs. I mean if the camera has any damage prolly dont buy it but if its missing like a rubber eye piece or lens cap its chill. Mostly is common sense, if its a piece you can replace that isn't mechanical you should be okay. Make sure especially on ebay the listing isn't for parts
Nov 17 2023 11:43AM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
Christian_BaleP2 cards are not hard to work with, in my experience (only need usb mini A)


You've got great advice in here, lots of stuff I didn't know about codecs and that. My only gripe about P2 is the file structuring when you import them, how they have the video, audio, info, thumbnail files all separated into different folders and you can really only manage them in Premiere. To get around it, I've batch exported ProRes versions of P2 files so they're easier to manage in finder alongside the rest of my clips that are fully packaged, also for sending clips out to others. But it's a considerable additional step in the process if dealing with a ton of footage.
Nov 17 2023 2:53PM
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Christian_Bale
Posts: 1892 - Karma: 21,249
gravelYou've got great advice in here, lots of stuff I didn't know about codecs and that. My only gripe about P2 is the file structuring when you import them, how they have the video, audio, info, thumbnail files all separated into different folders and you can really only manage them in Premiere. To get around it, I've batch exported ProRes versions of P2 files so they're easier to manage in finder alongside the rest of my clips that are fully packaged, also for sending clips out to others. But it's a considerable additional step in the process if dealing with a ton of footage.

very good point, I should've mentioned that. I find that it's not too big of a pain for any shorter videos but when you're dealing with a ton of footage for a season length project it can be very overwhelming to deal with
Nov 17 2023 3:36PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
It's pretty wild how the HVX is the new vx1k/2k.

The hmc40 is a great alternative for far cheaper IMO. Otherwise, i wouldn't even consider using a p2 workflow, the hmc150, ac160 would be my choice for you.
Nov 28 2023 1:28PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
Christian_BaleI think it's both. HMC footage is AVCHD and hpx/hvx footage is DVCProHD. The latter has a higher bitrate. According to people online, the DVCProHD is preferable since you have "have way more space to play with colour and grading in post" and get a "far a better, kinder , more gentle codec than AVCHD." I don't know if this actually mattters in the end, especially when you upload to youtube. However, the footage being compressed means it takes up less space on an SD card.


Just to set the record straight here, DVCproHD is a very outdated codec, it does have a higher bit rate but that is basically pointless for any casual filmer. A DVCproHD file would have a very marginal level of flexability, but if you care about color grading you should be using a RAW workflow, not a codec from 2002.

AVCHD runs really well on older computers and is still widely used compressed codec. Anyone who wants to film skiing with be perfectly fine with AVCHD.
Nov 28 2023 1:31PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
Woody.As fair as what to look for low operating hours are ideal.


Sorry to spam this thread, but hours of operation for a camera like the hmc40 is not a concern. Hours on your camera used to matter because tape heads would wear out. SD card ports don't wear out, sensors don't wear out.

The top things to look for are scratches on the lens, any broken plastic pieces and what's included with the camera.
Nov 28 2023 1:34PM
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Woody.
Posts: 428 - Karma: 4,716
eheathSorry to spam this thread, but hours of operation for a camera like the hmc40 is not a concern. Hours on your camera used to matter because tape heads would wear out. SD card ports don't wear out, sensors don't wear out.

The top things to look for are scratches on the lens, any broken plastic pieces and what's included with the camera.


yah you right it. would you not factor hours of operartion a factor at all for a camera like a hmc? Ive had two hmc40s one with around 100 hours and one around 10,000 hours. i found the one with 100 was faster to turn on and overall smoother. the other cam was way more annoying, it would take for ever to turn off, certain buttons wouldn't regster everytime, etc. i assumed it was cause of high hours
Nov 28 2023 4:30PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
Woody.yah you right it. would you not factor hours of operartion a factor at all for a camera like a hmc? Ive had two hmc40s one with around 100 hours and one around 10,000 hours. i found the one with 100 was faster to turn on and overall smoother. the other cam was way more annoying, it would take for ever to turn off, certain buttons wouldn't regster everytime, etc. i assumed it was cause of high hours


ive never used a camera with more than 2000 hours haha we used to have 3 fs7s at my work, one had 1500 hours and one had 400, they were identical. im sure after a time of use, most of the camera features would degrade.
Nov 28 2023 4:42PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780

Small update here: I found the following listing for 500 shipped, but it has a few things I’m not really sure about. He mentioned an XLR adaptor? Is that really needed? I’d love to squeeze the price down a little more
Dec 4 2023 11:39AM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
Dec 4 2023 11:39AM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
steez_apprentice

Small update here: I found the following listing for 500 shipped, but it has a few things I’m not really sure about. He mentioned an XLR adaptor? Is that really needed? I’d love to squeeze the price down a little more


The XLR adapter lets you use XLR mics with the camera as it does not have XLR inputs.
Dec 4 2023 11:42AM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
eheathThe XLR adapter lets you use XLR mics with the camera as it does not have XLR inputs.


gotcha. So sounds like if I ever wanted to upgrade audio from the OEM mic I would need to use that? sucks dropping 500 as a soon to be college student but I feel like it's such a deal for an hmc
Dec 4 2023 2:50PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
steez_apprenticegotcha. So sounds like if I ever wanted to upgrade audio from the OEM mic I would need to use that? sucks dropping 500 as a soon to be college student but I feel like it's such a deal for an hmc


Basically, yes. There are a few options, but thats the one downside to the hmc40.
Dec 4 2023 2:56PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
steez_apprentice

Small update here: I found the following listing for 500 shipped, but it has a few things I’m not really sure about. He mentioned an XLR adaptor? Is that really needed? I’d love to squeeze the price down a little more


Update #2: seller is now taking the 0.7x wide angle out and instead offered a “professional carry bag” for 485 shipped. Am I being screwed?
Dec 14 2023 6:25PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
steez_apprenticeUpdate #2: seller is now taking the 0.7x wide angle out and instead offered a “professional carry bag” for 485 shipped. Am I being screwed?


sounds annoying for sure, maybe they sold the wide?
Dec 14 2023 6:33PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
steez_apprenticeUpdate #2: seller is now taking the 0.7x wide angle out and instead offered a “professional carry bag” for 485 shipped. Am I being screwed?


edit: apparently he's talking about his own lens, not the OEM one. Overall deal for 485? what do you guys think
Dec 14 2023 6:33PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
eheathsounds annoying for sure, maybe they sold the wide?


maybe, listing has been up for like 18 weeks now. I was going to buy an opteka or other some basic fisheye regardless, but it does come with the stock lens anyways and with a carry bag that I was going to purchase on my own. While I'm at it, is there any good places to start when it comes to fisheyes? basically zero knowledge about them and I've done a good amount of search barring.
Dec 14 2023 6:35PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,917
steez_apprenticemaybe, listing has been up for like 18 weeks now. I was going to buy an opteka or other some basic fisheye regardless, but it does come with the stock lens anyways and with a carry bag that I was going to purchase on my own. While I'm at it, is there any good places to start when it comes to fisheyes? basically zero knowledge about them and I've done a good amount of search barring.


ebay is a solid resource for used camera gear.
Dec 14 2023 6:38PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780


Beyond stoked to own an hmc40, are there any settings I should fiddle with? And for lenses, assuming I upgrade to a fish in the future, what should I look for to know if 1. The lens fits the camera and 2. Suits the look I want? Any general advice helps as well
Dec 19 2023 3:47PM
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steez_apprentice
Posts: 845 - Karma: 5,780
i saw someone link the following lens in another thread: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800577219245.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

I'm assuming it's a replica but is this a bad idea to get for a lens? Ebay has tons of options but I just want something that really checks all the boxes for me.
Dec 19 2023 3:54PM
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Christian_Bale
Posts: 1892 - Karma: 21,249
steez_apprenticei saw someone link the following lens in another thread: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800577219245.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

I'm assuming it's a replica but is this a bad idea to get for a lens? Ebay has tons of options but I just want something that really checks all the boxes for me.

kapkur fisheyes are basically optekas, definitely a good option. The video I linked has more info. Unless anyone else knows of alternatives, then I'd say that opteka/kapkur are the best fisheye options unless you want to spend a substantial amount of money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BjKi13euU&t=289s&ab_channel=BenJones
Dec 21 2023 2:58PM
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Christian_Bale
Posts: 1892 - Karma: 21,249
steez_apprentice


Beyond stoked to own an hmc40, are there any settings I should fiddle with? And for lenses, assuming I upgrade to a fish in the future, what should I look for to know if 1. The lens fits the camera and 2. Suits the look I want? Any general advice helps as well

I would recommend looking at youtube videos about scene files and copying them. Then you can adjust them to get the footage that you want. For fisheye I'd recommend an opteka/kapkur. I think the hmc40 has a 43mm thread. You could get a 43mm 0.3X opteka, but you could also get a larger (ex. 58mm, 72mm) fisheye and use a step up ring.
Dec 21 2023 3:13PM
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