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...and California is about to be one giant experiment. Let's see how this goes.
In my view, I understand the background and why this is being discussed. Yes real harm has occurred over decades resulting in economic restriction of this group, however idk what to think about the solutions. Not sure a good solution even exists.
What happens when a whole bunch of people are given the equivalent of anywhere from a years to a lifetime of income in a lump sum? I'm curious to see the impact (positive or negative) on the economy and overall social structures.
Yooooooo that's pretty wild. One of the few times I hope something works out for Cali cuz this could honestly go pretty disastrously but we definitely have to just wait and see
as a seattle resident. the moment i hear "task force recommends" "consultant proposes" or "panel calls for," i know that a) it's not happening, and b) every member on said panel is related to a politician and taking home >$100k to do fuck all
Hope it's a joke, I am not obligated to pay for mistakes made by evil people from the 17/1800s just because we have the same skin color. Almost everybody from Chicago north fought for the blacks if anyone was to use this same logic reversed anyone who has a relative fighting in the civil war as a union soldier should be getting the $. Change my mind please
LippamaniHope it's a joke, I am not obligated to pay for mistakes made by evil people from the 17/1800s just because we have the same skin color. Almost everybody from Chicago north fought for the blacks if anyone was to use this same logic reversed anyone who has a relative fighting in the civil war as a union soldier should be getting the $. Change my mind please
Yes that's the popular counter argument and also why most people, including myself are conflicted. Many of our families weren't around during slavery. Many of our families came here with nothing so why should we pay. Etc etc. However our families did not face the same level of discrimination over the decades that black families do which lies the problem. Put a conservative number on that lost income and then add inflation and that's how they got there. Even stuff as simple as not being allowed to buy a house or not being allowed to live in certain areas impacts wealth. Wealth transfers through generations which is why descendants should qualify.
I read some different reasons and one big one is that America was literally built on the backs of slaves and by discrimination in the 1900's. Our economy and sheer size of the government is a direct result. Corporations, universities, roads, you name it. Could even be argued that your prosperity was indirectly because of lack of competition by blacks and considering laws and unwritten policies kept them down while benefitting whites. Would your family have been in the place to give you the life you have now had that discrimination not taken place? If you started out in the same place as most black kids today, it'd be pretty unlikely you'd turn out the same just by statistics. This holds true even in 2023 America. I can tell you that the amount and types of interactions I've had with cops in my life, if I were black, I'd either be dead or in jail, and definitely not making the salary I do. I've done some stupid shit like playing airsoft in the middle of the night in a neighborhood with my m4 replica that I colored the orange tip (cop shows up. Proceeds to shoot mailboxes with my airsoft gun...).
Then comes the history of reparations which occurred for Native Americans, Japanese Americans, and some African Americans throughout our country's history. That's a precedent.
You mentioned civil war... the civil war wasn't a good vs evil, let's free the slaves sort of thingy as a moral obligation. Yes many people believed it was morally wrong but that wasn't the reason for war. That was just a byproduct due to the economic value that slavery provided southern states. One of many causes of the war although a central and commonly misunderstood one.
I'll agree these reparation estimates are staggering. Seems like a free pass that could upend the economy and social ladders in weird ways. Like are you kidding me I won't have that type of wealth for years of busting my ass. I went down a rabbit hole yesterday. It's gonna be weird if it happens but I can't say I disagree. Can't say I agree either.
LippamaniHope it's a joke, I am not obligated to pay for mistakes made by evil people from the 17/1800s just because we have the same skin color. Almost everybody from Chicago north fought for the blacks if anyone was to use this same logic reversed anyone who has a relative fighting in the civil war as a union soldier should be getting the $. Change my mind please
Black Americans very a massive source of free and/or very cheap labor, both during and after the Civil War, and helped make the US what it is today. Therefore, some form of reparations does make sense to me but I think giving people money would be less effective than a large number of specific investments, such as grants for black people to start businesses, building recreation centers in inner city areas, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of money in the CIA and military budgets that could be reallocated without many people noticing.
Christian_BaleBlack Americans very a massive source of free and/or very cheap labor, both during and after the Civil War, and helped make the US what it is today. Therefore, some form of reparations does make sense to me but I think giving people money would be less effective than a large number of specific investments, such as grants for black people to start businesses, building recreation centers in inner city areas, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of money in the CIA and military budgets that could be reallocated without many people noticing.
This. It can work, but solid plans need to be enacted to make sure the money being applied will make a real world difference.
Christian_BaleBlack Americans very a massive source of free and/or very cheap labor, both during and after the Civil War, and helped make the US what it is today. Therefore, some form of reparations does make sense to me but I think giving people money would be less effective than a large number of specific investments, such as grants for black people to start businesses, building recreation centers in inner city areas, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of money in the CIA and military budgets that could be reallocated without many people noticing.
100%
so much fucking money goes to the military, and to the police on a state level. We could use that money for such better stuff.
EggMann100%
so much fucking money goes to the military, and to the police on a state level. We could use that money for such better stuff.
Agree, I forgot to mention police. I believe the NYPD has an annual budget of over five billion, which is more than many countries spend on their military.
LippamaniHope it's a joke, I am not obligated to pay for mistakes made by evil people from the 17/1800s just because we have the same skin color. Almost everybody from Chicago north fought for the blacks if anyone was to use this same logic reversed anyone who has a relative fighting in the civil war as a union soldier should be getting the $. Change my mind please
Although slavery was certainly the most egregious of the racist acts doesn’t mean it was the only thing. Redlining has been some of the most detrimental things that has limited black people from establishing businesses and building equity.
What I really don't get is why nobody talks about the native Indians I feel terrible about what my ancestors did to them. But nobody seems interested in talking about that, maybe because we all k own what we are doing/ did to them is ACTUALLY horrible.
Has anyone studied the trail of tears in school because I haven't I learned about it myself. 1 we came as friends.
2 they save most of the first colonizers lives while 70% of there people die to our diseases 3 we get greedy and take everything except a little piece of America that they can live in.
4 we decided that land was to good for them so we March men woman and children with barley any food or water to the tiny miserable place they have now and there mane source of food is fish because they don't have enough land to hunt. And many died on the March.
Main* barely and this wasn't like super long ago this was 1830s. And as far as I know our government has done very little for them since. While they pour money into helping the oppressed "
And I understand I live in a pretty bubble wrapped world. I have 40acers of woods to grow up on and everyone around us shares the same beliefs so there is never hard feelings and everyone knows some neighbor who can get you anything for cheaper. And most people are really brain dead around here so even though I'm not very smart I'm alit brighter than alot of guys. So I try to remember that there is places that still have racism but we have lots of black families around who are great neighbors and friends.
LippamaniWhat I really don't get is why nobody talks about the native Indians I feel terrible about what my ancestors did to them. But nobody seems interested in talking about that, maybe because we all k own what we are doing/ did to them is ACTUALLY horrible.
Has anyone studied the trail of tears in school because I haven't I learned about it myself. 1 we came as friends.
2 they save most of the first colonizers lives while 70% of there people die to our diseases 3 we get greedy and take everything except a little piece of America that they can live in.
4 we decided that land was to good for them so we March men woman and children with barley any food or water to the tiny miserable place they have now and there mane source of food is fish because they don't have enough land to hunt. And many died on the March.
I live down the street from the hard rock hotel in Hollywood. And just watched the f1 Grand Prix at rock stadium. Don’t try to talk to me about indigenous peeps. In Florida they’re getting their moneys worth. At least the Seminoles are.
PartyBullshiitI live down the street from the hard rock hotel in Hollywood. And just watched the f1 Grand Prix at rock stadium. Don’t try to talk to me about indigenous peeps. In Florida they’re getting their moneys worth. At least the Seminoles are.
PartyBullshiitI live down the street from the hard rock hotel in Hollywood. And just watched the f1 Grand Prix at rock stadium. Don’t try to talk to me about indigenous peeps. In Florida they’re getting their moneys worth. At least the Seminoles are.
yeah what a smokin deal. in return for the genocide of their ancestors and pretty much all of their land, the tribal leadership gets to own a hotel. what nerve they have to complain
**This post was edited on May 9th 2023 at 5:05:11am
cyphersyeah what a smokin deal. in return for the genocide of their ancestors and pretty much all of their land, the tribal leadership gets to own a hotel. what nerve they have to complain
**This post was edited on May 9th 2023 at 5:05:11am
The natives are getting back at the white man by running payday loan schemes from their reservations.
cyphersyeah what a smokin deal. in return for the genocide of their ancestors and pretty much all of their land, the tribal leadership gets to own a hotel. what nerve they have to complain
**This post was edited on May 9th 2023 at 5:05:11am
Hard rock is valued at 1.6 billion and the Seminole trip is estimated to be a 12 billion dollar tribe. They’re doing absolutely fine. Lmao.
PartyBullshiitHard rock is valued at 1.6 billion and the Seminole trip is estimated to be a 12 billion dollar tribe. They’re doing absolutely fine. Lmao.
you're not getting it dude. the market value of hard rock is meaningless. thousands of their people were killed and their culture was completely erased by american expansion. have a look at the 1st and 2nd seminole wars and tell me it was all worth it so they could build a fucking casino
cyphersyou're not getting it dude. the market value of hard rock is meaningless. thousands of their people were killed and their culture was completely erased by american expansion. have a look at the 1st and 2nd seminole wars and tell me it was all worth it so they could build a fucking casino
I do get it. I understand the loses they suffered and no amount of money etc would change that or make it right
My point is the Seminole tribe currently is not suffering in anyway shape or form. In fact most of the tribe is doing far better off than most of America. I live down the road from their private neighborhood. Every home is a million dollar home or more.
The tribe also doesn’t just own a “hotel” they own the hard rock corporation and all
It’s entities. Every hotel around the world. Every shop and restaurant around the world etc.
I am also only talking about them. No other tribes as I have zero experience with them and I also understand that the seminoles situation is not the norm across the us and Canada.
Evidently the Shakopee are the current heavy west.
“Today, the Shakopee Mdewakanton are believed to be the richest tribe in American history as measured by individual personal wealth: Each adult, according to court records and confirmed by one tribal member, receives a monthly payment of around $84,000, or $1.08 million a year”
PartyBullshiitI do get it. I understand the loses they suffered and no amount of money etc would change that or make it right
My point is the Seminole tribe currently is not suffering in anyway shape or form. In fact most of the tribe is doing far better off than most of America. I live down the road from their private neighborhood. Every home is a million dollar home or more.
The tribe also doesn’t just own a “hotel” they own the hard rock corporation and all
It’s entities. Every hotel around the world. Every shop and restaurant around the world etc.
I am also only talking about them. No other tribes as I have zero experience with them and I also understand that the seminoles situation is not the norm across the us and Canada.
I did not know about the Seminole tribe owning hard rock, that is interesting. Can't speak to their particular situation because I clearly don't know much about it, but it's my understanding that regarding the native-owned casinos in general, a lot of the people getting ripped off at the casinos are native themselves, since a lot of the casinos are located on reservation lands.
PartyBullshiitEvidently the Shakopee are the current heavy west.
“Today, the Shakopee Mdewakanton are believed to be the richest tribe in American history as measured by individual personal wealth: Each adult, according to court records and confirmed by one tribal member, receives a monthly payment of around $84,000, or $1.08 million a year”
some tribes are balling (especially in Minnesota) and a lot more will probably be forever poverty stricken. you ever driven through a res?
Christian_BaleI did not know about the Seminole tribe owning hard rock, that is interesting. Can't speak to their particular situation because I clearly don't know much about it, but it's my understanding that regarding the native-owned casinos in general, a lot of the people getting ripped off at the casinos are native themselves, since a lot of the casinos are located on reservation lands.
Jemssome tribes are balling (especially in Minnesota) and a lot more will probably be forever poverty stricken. you ever driven through a res?
That’s why I was saying I can only speak about seminoles here. I live in south Florida so we don’t have tribes all over. We have a couple spread out. I’m minutes away from the seminoles and their guitar hotel. So that’s the only res i drive through on a regular basis as it’s smack right in a main area down here.
I’ve driven by a couple in NC but they all had larger hotels and a lot of investment into their land.
don’t have any experience with any out west or north etc who are more remote and don’t have the same access.
PartyBullshiitDid you read the article and see the benefits they currently receive? Between money, health insurance, school covered through college etc.
but your point was that those things are "worth" an effective cultural genocide? just making sure
cyphersbut your point was that those things are "worth" an effective cultural genocide? just making sure
Lol you’re really trying so hard to make nothing into something. I never said anything of the sort. You’re just implying bullshit lol.
again if you actually read the article and stop just talking out of you’re asshole you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about and what benefits they receive how they’re making the most of their money.
PartyBullshiitLol you’re really trying so hard to make nothing into something. I never said anything of the sort. You’re just implying bullshit lol.
PartyBullshiitDon’t try to talk to me about indigenous peeps. In Florida they’re getting their moneys worth. At least the Seminoles are.
aight you literally said exactly that so i'm gonna have to assume you just don't know what the saying "get your money's worth" means. it implies that the benefits they're receiving are somehow worth the cost of what they had to endure. basically means "they got a pretty good deal."
so my bad. thought you were kinda racist but i guess you just aren't very literate
cyphersaight you literally said exactly that so i'm gonna have to assume you just don't know what the saying "get your money's worth" means. it implies that the benefits they're receiving are somehow worth the cost of what they had to endure. basically means "they got a pretty good deal."
so my bad. thought you were kinda racist but i guess you just aren't very literate
Yea lets give money to the people so they can use it for more drugs. What a brilliant scheme. I'm sure this will surely right the past.
Slavery still exists in other countries in present day and you idiots are crying about something that ended 160 years ago in this great country.
Get it together hombres. paying out shit for something you had nothing to do with will just make this country plunge deeper into debt as the dollar crumbles. Shits fucking doomed here with you morons.
**This post was edited on May 9th 2023 at 6:26:18pm
Christian_BaleBlack Americans very a massive source of free and/or very cheap labor, both during and after the Civil War, and helped make the US what it is today. Therefore, some form of reparations does make sense to me but I think giving people money would be less effective than a large number of specific investments, such as grants for black people to start businesses, building recreation centers in inner city areas, etc. I'm sure there's plenty of money in the CIA and military budgets that could be reallocated without many people noticing.
How about we stop giving ukraine over a 100 billion dollars and actually use that tiny fraction to pay back our 31 trillion national debt? Handing money to people never solves the problem. About time our dumbass government starts to realize that.
VTshredder69Yea lets give money to the people so they can use it for more drugs. What a brilliant scheme. I'm sure this will surely right the past.
Slavery still exists in other countries in present day and you idiots are crying about something that ended 160 years ago in this great country.
Get it together hombres. paying out shit for something you had nothing to do with will just make this country plunge deeper into debt as the dollar crumbles. Shits fucking doomed here with you morons.
**This post was edited on May 9th 2023 at 6:26:18pm
