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181 or 186 Jeff's(I know, I know)

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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Yo! I've googled, search barred, read a ton of stuff and I'm still on the fence. Please help!

Gonna get some custom Jeffreys in different widths over the summer so my whole quiver will be mad familiar. All with Pivot 15's and only skiing Full Tilt Ascendant SC's for everything.

I'm ~5'9" ~150lbs.

I could get away with the 181's or the 186's. Not sure which to choose.

Currently ski J Hotshots in 184, mounted at rec ~(-8cm from true center?) And Vishnu Wides in 183, mounted dead center.

Jeff's are -4 at 181 and -4.25? At 186 iirc. Also I think J's and V's measure a little shorter than ON3Ps.

Here's what I'm thinking.

⭐Jeffrey 96
Mounted +2 from center?
Stock layup
Softer flex

Rails/butters/early season/street(not worried about stability, I don't do inverts or big airs in the park)

⭐Jeffrey 110, stock

West coast daily driver/cliffs/trees/variable conditions/charging through chop/crud

⭐Jeffrey 118
Mounted -2 from center?
Tour layup
Stock flex
Skin clip tail
CAST system

Deep resort days/cliffs/backcountry/sidecountry/heli/etc

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I might just mount them all at recommended tbh but I know a lot of their team has them at +2, fwiw. I wouldn't go further than 2cm in either direction.

Thinking the 186's could be unwieldy, esp. if the 184's I'm on now measure short.

Worried if I get the 181's, especially for the powder skis, that I'll eventually wish I got the 186's. However, I'm also worried the 186's will be tougher in trees, and for 360's/540's/skiing switch. Only really considering the -2 mount cause if the 181's seem slightly too short, it could potentially even it out without changing the feel noticeably. Could also help prevent too much tip dive, but tbh the ON3P rocker is massive and I probably won't have that problem mounted at rec.

Also considering how much tip/tail rocker these have, they ski shorter.

If I mount +2 on the J96's for park, worried that the tips will feel too short on the 181's. Also concerned about the chargeability of the stock J110's and the float of the J118 Tours. Since the 110 will replace the Hotshot as my daily driver, I want to make sure it's long/stable enough for charging crap and dropping cliffs, but I don't want it to be too heavy/unwieldy for rotations and trees.

Anyone got any input here? I know the 186's are COOLER but if I'm dropping thousands on customs I want to be certain.

A big help since my skis are in the locker room at work RN and I don't have any Jeff's, would be if y'all could post actual tip to tail length measurements of J Hotshots in 184, Vishnu Wides in 183, and ON3P Jeffreys in 181 and 186.

If anyone has the effective edge measurements of these skis in these sizes that would also be greatly appreciated
Mar 8 2023 1:23AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Found some of the EEs

Hotshot-183 - 1500
Jeff 110-181 - 1445
Jeff 110-186 - 1490
Jeff 118-181 - 1385
Jeff 118-186 - 1430
Mar 8 2023 1:29AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Found some actual measured lengths

Hotshot 183's - 180.6
Wide 183's - 181.6
Mar 8 2023 1:32AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Jeff 186's - 186.6/186.69 cm

Hopefully this thread will help someone in the future. I'm having a moment of gear madness. Really wish I could just edit my post instead of spewing out this disgusting combo but it is what it is. I'm asking the internet for help hahah
Mar 8 2023 1:36AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
In my first post it's supposed to say +/-2 from REC, not center.

Hotshots have a tighter radius than the Jeff's or V's. I only got them cause they were $500 and do what I need them to do. Okay, hands off the keyboard, I'll just leave this here if anyone wants to chime in with their experiences. Sorry about the post diarrhea. Thanks from Alyeska!!
Mar 8 2023 1:44AM
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Nofeetepete
Posts: 17 - Karma: 91
I have my Jeff 96 181 at +2 from recommended (which I believe is -4 from true center but I could be wrong) but I only ski park about 30% of the time on them. For reference I’m 5’10 and 155lbs and I think that it’s plenty long enough in and out the park. Unless you really want a much longer ski I think the 186 would start to feel pretty long IMO.

But in all seriousness is 5cm gonna make or break your day?
Mar 8 2023 2:55AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
I'm not entirely sure. I'm sure 5cm could make or break -someone's- day 😉

I think +2 from rec is -2 from center.

Thanks for the input! Definitely leaning towards 181 after finding out how short the J's actually measure...

Probably mostly concerned about the powder skis since they're going to be the most expensive what with the touring layup and CAST system, but I was wondering if mounting -2 on the 181's would be a good middle ground. I feel like -6 from true center, in the lighter-weight touring layup, would still spin pretty good. I think Wildcats rec is like -6 behind center.
Mar 8 2023 3:05AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
When you put it like that though I guess it's only what, an inch longer on either end with the 186's? I think I'm gonna go with 181's but I'd still love to hear some feedback from Jeff/Kartel owners
Mar 8 2023 3:21AM
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dmcdmc
Posts: 206 - Karma: 1,423
You're overthinking this a lot. I have the Jeff 110 in 181. They're mounted at recommended. If they were 186 I'd probably ski 99% the same. Longer is a smidge more stable. Shorter is a smidge easier to turn.

Whatever you get, I wouldn't move the mount point. If you want more centered, get mangos, if you want less centered, get woodsmans. I wouldn't change the flex. If you knew better than the creators then you wouldn't be asking the internet for advice. On3p has said that it makes maybe a 10% diff which isn't much anyway.
Mar 8 2023 7:54PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
They offer different flexes. Their team moves the mount points. I wasn't sure about how big of a difference it was, turns out it would be quite a large difference as my V's and J's actually measure quite short. I figured since I learned a lot from this place, maybe someone googling it would find all these dimensions and opinions and it could help someone else. Really looking for real world experience from people who are around my height and weight and have skied both sizes. But thank you! I agree I'm prolly overthinking it.
Mar 8 2023 8:16PM
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Paul.
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 11,047
You could always run different sizes for each ski. Personally (5’7 ~150) I go 176 for pure park skis and 181 for all mountain/pow. I like the longer length for stability and float, they work fine in the park but Im not trying to 3 swap them. The shorter length I definitely notice less stability when skiing rough terrain/dropping cliffs, but I can throw them around on rails and jumps a lot easier.

As far as mount point goes, on a Jeffrey Im using for park Id move it up +1 or 2 from rec, for pow Id stick with rec, and the middle Id go rec or +1 depending on how much you plan on dipping into the park with them.

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2023 at 9:36:07pm
Mar 8 2023 9:32PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Hmmm thanks. Been thinking about the longer effective edge and more damp effect of the 186's. Hella people ski 189 wets, and some pure powder skis are only offered in one size, usually high 80's low 90's...
Mar 8 2023 10:03PM
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mikem
Posts: 898 - Karma: 8,310
You’re overthinking this. 5’9 + charge = 186s.
Mar 8 2023 11:06PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Tight. I'd probably not be overthinking it if it wasn't so much money hahah. I'm a lil ocd about shit so it's good to hear so many people saying either or will be fine.
Mar 8 2023 11:12PM
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mikem
Posts: 898 - Karma: 8,310
Get the buttersticks
Mar 8 2023 11:32PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
I was thinking the clear topsheets, looks so sick to see some of the guts in there. Considered butter sticks, grizzlycorn, or just pink topsheets as well
Mar 9 2023 12:22AM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Honestly to save a bunch of money I should probably just get stock mango 90's, Jeff 110's and billy goat 118 tours and mount at rec.

I just thought it would be really cool to have an uber consistent quiver that I could get really used to and the Jeff seems to be the best option on the market for that, would be an interesting experience if I won the lottery or something
Mar 9 2023 3:12AM
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five-cents
Posts: 8 - Karma: 47
I'm 5'11 and swing between 175lbs-185lbs depending on the month.

I've owned and tried the J102, J110, and J118 all in the 181 length. I've got a bit of weight on you and have never overpowered my skis. Jeffs are not floppy noodles, they have lots of backbone and the flex profile is very progressive (gets stiffer a lot faster as you get father away from the tips/tails and more towards the center of the ski). At my weight I'm able to get a lot of pop out of the tails, but struggle to butter the tips at slower speeds (note, I am bad at nose butters). I ski almost entirely all-mountain, never do any park stuff.

I didn't like the 102s. I bought them thinking I could use them for days when there had been no new snow for a while. But the Jeffrey shape is not conducive to hard-pack performance, but if you're skiing primarily park I could see why you'd like that width (less swing-weight, quicker, etc).

The 110 is my favorite width. It's also not the best on hard-pack, but it's predictable. Very stable on landings and feels balanced at air mounted at rec. I love to double up moguls and jumps with these. These still float great in boot-top powder and deeper, I've taken them into some 1-3ft deep sections and didn't have any issues. If I could only ski one ski at the resort these would be it.

The 118 blasts through everything and is a super stable all-mountain freestyle ski. I've straight lined through crap and crud I should have had no business going through. They can be a pretty cumbersome ski to move around all day though. You don't really sink into snow at all when skiing these skis fast through powder, so you'll go VERY fast down the fall line. I've landed rock jumps and side hits into fresh pow and these things keep me rocketing forward whereas on other skis I would have sunk in a bit and slow down on the landing.

If I were you I would pull the trigger on the 110s and see how you like them before committing to filling your entire quiver with just Jeffs (like I did). I would go with the 181 length.
Mar 9 2023 10:39AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9267 - Karma: 60,736
get the 181s. you're 175cm tall, those are ~5cm taller than you, you're more than covered, if you wanted/needed them a full 11cm over your head you wouldn't want or need to ask

plus you mentioned trees; skis 11cm over your head do not help in trees
Mar 9 2023 4:58PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Thank you, this really helps cause I know the longer ones are gonna be recommended a lot because they're "cooler." BG's are mounted like 9 back though, I don't know if I would like something so directional. I think with the gnarly rocker I'd probably be fine at rec in pow with the Jeff's?
Mar 9 2023 5:22PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
five-centsI'm 5'11 and swing between 175lbs-185lbs depending on the month.

I've owned and tried the J102, J110, and J118 all in the 181 length. I've got a bit of weight on you and have never overpowered my skis. Jeffs are not floppy noodles, they have lots of backbone and the flex profile is very progressive (gets stiffer a lot faster as you get father away from the tips/tails and more towards the center of the ski). At my weight I'm able to get a lot of pop out of the tails, but struggle to butter the tips at slower speeds (note, I am bad at nose butters). I ski almost entirely all-mountain, never do any park stuff.

I didn't like the 102s. I bought them thinking I could use them for days when there had been no new snow for a while. But the Jeffrey shape is not conducive to hard-pack performance, but if you're skiing primarily park I could see why you'd like that width (less swing-weight, quicker, etc).

The 110 is my favorite width. It's also not the best on hard-pack, but it's predictable. Very stable on landings and feels balanced at air mounted at rec. I love to double up moguls and jumps with these. These still float great in boot-top powder and deeper, I've taken them into some 1-3ft deep sections and didn't have any issues. If I could only ski one ski at the resort these would be it.

The 118 blasts through everything and is a super stable all-mountain freestyle ski. I've straight lined through crap and crud I should have had no business going through. They can be a pretty cumbersome ski to move around all day though. You don't really sink into snow at all when skiing these skis fast through powder, so you'll go VERY fast down the fall line. I've landed rock jumps and side hits into fresh pow and these things keep me rocketing forward whereas on other skis I would have sunk in a bit and slow down on the landing.

If I were you I would pull the trigger on the 110s and see how you like them before committing to filling your entire quiver with just Jeffs (like I did). I would go with the 181 length.

Thank you so much!!!

Yeah, defo gonna getting the stock 110's first to get an idea for them before I order any customs is a solid bet
Mar 9 2023 5:29PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9267 - Karma: 60,736
WhaddupThank you, this really helps cause I know the longer ones are gonna be recommended a lot because they're "cooler." BG's are mounted like 9 back though, I don't know if I would like something so directional. I think with the gnarly rocker I'd probably be fine at rec in pow with the Jeff's?


NS is a bunch of parrots, they'd literally recommend the longest length to a 4 foot tall person with MS and no toes who has skied twice

believe me, i like big skis.... all of mine are above my head. but that doesn't mean you should listen to these reprobates too literally when it comes to your own gear. you will not gain anything from these skis being 11cm over your head, i would only do that on like big mtn cruise missile skis... park/resort/trees is not going to benefit in the slightest from that extra length

i might be on the fence if youre between sizes, but you're not. the 181 is over your head and even gives you some breathing room to mount them up a little (sorry, not enough experience with ON3Ps to advised on mount point. feel like i see +2 more than anything else though)
Mar 9 2023 5:37PM
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five-cents
Posts: 8 - Karma: 47
If you mount +2 Jeffs will probably ride less like an all-mountain ski. If you're jibbing it might make sense, I guess.

Someone posted a while ago that Karl Fostvedt mounted his Kartels (old name for Jeffs) at -2.

Mine feel good on the line.
Mar 9 2023 5:47PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
That's kinda what I figured but needed to hear from someone with more experience.

I turned 34 yesterday and am relatively new to skiing. I'm from Flint Michigan and never would've guessed I'd be a good skier. but I played hockey since I was 2 years old and used to get shoes from Emerica for skateboarding when I was like 18-20. I got soft symmetrical park skis for my first skis, since I wouldn't know the difference anyway, and would still want to keep them and detune them when I figured out what type of ski I really wanted. That way I wouldn't have to sell anything and could just make a good decision once I figured out what my skiing style is. Skiing on V's has forced me to land perfectly to avoid washing out. When I picked up the J Hotshots for $500 a week or so ago, I could instantly go so much faster and land bigger stuff so much more consistently. I'm just not a super fan of the -8 mount and subtle tail rocker. I'm on my second season at Alyeska, and all I want to do is drop cliffs and charge. It's so much gd fun. I did not expect to progress this fast. I feel like a kid again. I'm trying to play catch up with my friends and want a big powder ski for next year. Then I thought, what if I had a quiver of 3 or 4 skis, that were all the same design? It's like how Andrew Reynolds skated the exact same shape deck and size trucks and wheels for like 25 years and he's one of the best skateboarders of all time. I thought that consistency would be nice.

I've heard with Jeff's you don't want to really move the mount more than 2. With BGs or woodsmans I don't think you'd want to change the mount at all.

On the fence if I should get mangos or Jeff's for the park skis, leaning towards mangos for the more centered mount and probably lighter weight

On the fence about sticking with rec for the Jeff 118's or going two back. Tram/north face laps at alyeska on center mounted vishnus is a workout hahah. The tips don't dive too bad I'm honestly surprised they perform pretty well. They were supposed to be my early season skis, and I was gonna get Jeff 110's or big horn 106's for daily drivers, but the season crept up on me and I didn't have any money hahah so I skied the V's everywhere.

Pretty damn sure I'm gonna get 181's across the board. At my weight they should be fine in a couple feet of fresh snow.


So,

Jeff 96
181
Softer flex
Stock layup
+2 mount

Jeff 110
Stock
181

Jeff 118
181
Stock flex
Tour layup/skin clip tail
-2 mount


This seems like the move.

Sorry for writing a whole gd book go easy on me it's just the internet
Mar 9 2023 6:09PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Just realized I just wrote the exact same setups again, I didn't realize I hadn't changed them one bit. Hah. Well no one has to read this thread if they don't want to, but for me it's fun to discuss this stuff, and some kids gonna Google it and find this thread and go give ON3P money so I'm here for it, whatever. Thanks to everyone for the advice and info.
Mar 9 2023 6:11PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
Inb4 everyone rips me a new one for only having skied a couple years 😆

Well I'm having a fuckin blast, I don't ski with poor form, my boots fit me perfectly, I can go anywhere I want on the mountain(if it's open) and have a good time, and I've never been left behind skiing with my friends who have been doing this 15-20 years longer than me. I just want to start off next season with a fuckin bang and not have to wonder about gear anymore and I think the Jeff's suits my skiing style to a t. Okay byeeee love you
Mar 9 2023 6:15PM
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slimkumquat
Posts: 52 - Karma: 126
You said yourself youve only been skiing a couple years - take the advice of the above posters who've been skiing for decades and only buy the 110 and then decide whether thats the ski you want to fill out your quiver with.

Also, if you want to the skis to ski the same you should definitely mount them at recommended each time especially cuz ON3P has a bi-radius sidecut. Maybe -1 from rec on the pow skis but like everyone above said ON3P knows what they're doing when reccing mount points and the only reason to even mount your all mtn skis (102s) forward would be to make em easier to trick which it doesn't sound like youre doing much anyway. For perspective, I had a Wrenegade 96 mounted at like -9 that felt super balanced in the air but just not easily spinnable. I've never even heard of anyone mounting them further back but would be interested to read if you found experiences about it while asking around.

Finally, the founder himself has said that no one in the factory really skis the tour layup and that they're all on 50/50 or stock for their touring setups. I talked to him on the phone as well about some similar stuff, and he said if you like charging and hitting jumps then the stock or even 5050 layups will blow the touring layup out of the water in anything variable and when it comes to stomping cliffs. Unless you're doing like 6000 ft vert days multiple times a week the stability alone is probably worth going 5050 on, not to mention predictability (your main reason for getting all these skis in the first place).
Apr 4 2023 10:05PM
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Whaddup
Posts: 105 - Karma: 586
That was the idea, get a stock 110 in 181 as a daily driver at alyeska and see how I like it

I'd been thinking 50/50 would be fine too, been mulling it over and was like man, I want the thicker base and edges.

my J's are 8cm back from center and spin just fine

Thanks so much for the advice, I especially agree with the 50/50 layup instead on the wider ones, I mean if I like em anyways. Which I'm p sure I will. Thanks again! Sound logic!

**This post was edited on Apr 6th 2023 at 3:26:09am
Apr 6 2023 3:22AM
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