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what is line doing differently to other brands with their construction ?
like k2s are made in the same factory, is line using shitty epoxy or something
K2 is on par with Line nowadays at least with the wReckoner line.
jps2.0what is line doing differently to other brands with their construction ?
like k2s are made in the same factory, is line using shitty epoxy or something
jps2.0what is line doing differently to other brands with their construction ?
like k2s are made in the same factory, is line using shitty epoxy or something
tominiemenmaaK2 is on par with Line nowadays at least with the wReckoner line.
Yep I have a buddy who’s reckoners exploded after like 3 days on the hill. I have a pair of sick days that were cooked after 5 days of hard riding.
My wReckoners were done after five days in the park. One bulging sidewall with cracks underfoot on three edges on a pair which was heavily detuned. Got my money back and will never buy k2 for park again. The wreckoner 102 was a fun and super lightweight ski tho.
KootenayRipper69Yep I have a buddy who’s reckoners exploded after like 3 days on the hill. I have a pair of sick days that were cooked after 5 days of hard riding.
Faction seems to have upped their quality to near indestructible with the Prodigy line. My current pair has 120+ park days on them and yes, they are far from pristine but yes, they also are in way better shape than any other ski I've had with lesser than half the days on them.
jps2.0yeah k2s aren't exactly 'good' quality but better than faction candides and line skis
line skis are good quality i've had tw pros for a few days before i got my back blown out lmao and they held up great and took a beating on the rails only a little sidewall chipping and tiny bit of delamination which is typical
tominiemenmaaK2 is on par with Line nowadays at least with the wReckoner line.
It's weird because I have 2012 K2 recoils (great skis) that look better than Line SFB's after a season. K2 must have shit the bed in the last 5-8 years.
qazwsxedc34It's weird because I have 2012 K2 recoils (great skis) that look better than Line SFB's after a season. K2 must have shit the bed in the last 5-8 years.
Nah, poachers are their bombproof model. Recoils aren’t poachers but the durability is identical
poachers are great, heard good stuff about the blade optic model's durability. Park skis are just not good durability wise from what I hear though, @drew.ski had a pair of TW pros that delammed pretty quick if I recall
line is just too popular now and they must have terrible quality control or the workers just arent paying attention because they all break. The older models are much stronger but they are all used.
SwitchJib@BackseatBallsack had a pair of blends and after 2 days in the park his side wall was destroyed, and top sheet was basically all the way off the ski.
Yup this is true. Never buying lines again, unless I get TWPs to jib around copper on. Horrible quality. Sick pool noodles.
jps2.0yeah k2s aren't exactly 'good' quality but better than faction candides and line skis
k2s were bombproof up to the reckoners. I think poachers are still bombproof, but I'm not buying anything new from k2, they lost a lot of loyal customers with the reckoners durability
I don't understand how people brake skis. I had a pair of 2014 Chronics for five seasons, and I skied park on average twice a week on 'em. I now have a pair of 2020 Chronics and they still have a lot of life left in them. Maybe my case is unique, but I've never had an issue with Line skis.
I've also had a pair of K2 Pettitors since 2015 and they also still ski like they are new.
Are people treating their skis like they're made of Vibranium and expect them to survive Thanos' gauntlet or something??
tri_photoI don't understand how people brake skis. I had a pair of 2014 Chronics for five seasons, and I skied park on average twice a week on 'em. I now have a pair of 2020 Chronics and they still have a lot of life left in them. Maybe my case is unique, but I've never had an issue with Line skis.
I've also had a pair of K2 Pettitors since 2015 and they also still ski like they are new.
Are people treating their skis like they're made of Vibranium and expect them to survive Thanos' gauntlet or something??
Definitely super dependent on how and where you ski. I know lots of people who have never broken a ski, I break them semi-frequently, another friend is lucky if any brand lasts him a full season.
Usually when they break for me, its because shit hit the fan, not something I tried to do to the skis. Absolutely stuffing the tips or tails crashing when trying a new trick, slamming them into rock by accident in a narrow chute, smacking tips into rails on b2 outs, finding hidden rocks in the landing of a cliff, slamming the side of a ski into a rail on accident, that type of stuff
SwitchJib@BackseatBallsack had a pair of blends and after 2 days in the park his side wall was destroyed, and top sheet was basically all the way off the ski.
homie at my local mountain has had his blends for 4 years. Said he'd ride them until they exploded and although they have some chipping they at least have an edge. Some people are just unlucky
I've ridden Lines since 2003 almost exclusively. I've owned a few other brands skis in between but kept going back to Line. I can say with the utmost certainty that their quality has fallen off a cliff since then. Up until about 2014 their skis were extremely durable. You could break them if you wanted too, but it took some effort.
I have gone through three pairs of their skis in the last 2 seasons (1 x honey badger and 2x TWPs). The honey badgers are just cheap skis, so I didn't really expect them to last, however, the first set of TWPs made it 5 days before the sidewall on both skis started de laminating. They replaced the TWPs under warranty. The replacement pair made it another 5 days before they also started de laminating too. I keep epoxying them back together, but its only a matter of time before I won't be able to any more and I'll likely need to buy another pair of skis to finish this season out. The funny thing is, I'm over 30 and probably don't abuse my skis as badly as most of the people here do either.
Lines are a ton of fun to ski, they just don't last. As a result, I'm likely done buying their products. It seems extremely wasteful to have to buy two pairs of skis each season, I'd rather spend more and get something that will last a season or two.
lines r pretty ass nowadays yeah, but if ur gonna be skiing park and fucking up ur skis, i think cheap skis are kinda the way to go. (line, k2, head, etc etc) edge condition doesnt really matter in park anyways if ur hitting rails and smashing ur skis against shit. ur not really making hard turns skiing park
however, the only 2 pairs of skis ive ever snapped were both lines. so take that into account
i honestly cringe when i see park rats on 800$ ON3P's or something of that caliber. like why tf r u spending so much guap on a ski that ur just gonna trash by the end of the season, and doesnt really perform that much better (considering ur skiing park) than something made for 1/2 the price.
im saying this as an owner of two pairs of on3p's btw (great skis, just dont ride park on them)
if ur gonna ski park get a cheap ski. no use dropping cash on something thats gonna get smashed regardless. lines will do just fine
if ur planning to actually ski tho, id say drop the extra cash and get something nice thats gonna last you a few seasons and performs how u like.
qazwsxedc34It's weird because I have 2012 K2 recoils (great skis) that look better than Line SFB's after a season. K2 must have shit the bed in the last 5-8 years.
dude i swear K2 used to make the best quality skis on the market for years, but since 2016 ish they have lost so much craftsmanship.
my 2012 petitors have so many days (300ish) and still ski great. hardly any chipping on the topsheet too. Honestly my favorite ski ive ever had, durable asf, and the most amazing rocker/camber pattern.
Had a pair of hell bents too that i probably put close to 300 days on skiing hard asf before i gave them to a homie (who is still skiing them hard after 4+ mounts).
currently on some 112 reckoners, great performing / fun / light ski, but they have taken way too much damage for only 50ish days, not very happy about that, but hey they were 300$ with my homies pro deal...
supremeblienteledude i swear K2 used to make the best quality skis on the market for years, but since 2016 ish they have lost so much craftsmanship.
my 2012 petitors have so many days (300ish) and still ski great. hardly any chipping on the topsheet too. Honestly my favorite ski ive ever had, durable asf, and the most amazing rocker/camber pattern.
Had a pair of hell bents too that i probably put close to 300 days on skiing hard asf before i gave them to a homie (who is still skiing them hard after 4+ mounts).
currently on some 112 reckoners, great performing / fun / light ski, but they have taken way too much damage for only 50ish days, not very happy about that, but hey they were 300$ with my homies pro deal...
k2 certainly doesnt make em like they used too
Yup, my 2012 recoils were bombproof. They had thick edges, top sheet was extremely durable, better than atomic, Line, and most brands then and now. The base was strong, and their profile made them so fun to ski on while still being very stable. Weirdly, they took out the urethane underfoot when the shreditor 92 came out in 2013. I noticed a big difference in feeling and performance. Rubber/Urethane underfoot, on tips/tales or above edges seems to increase durability and dampening feeling.
After the recoils, the shreditors declined in quality, and the top sheets were shit. They were two different skis yet K2 was claiming they were basically the same thing. Maybe in 2015/16 did K2 skis really start to decline. Maybe not on par with Line, though Line 2015 maple block SFB108's are probably more durable than the k2 reckoner series today, but once line went the flax route and made SFB's sloppy penis, the quality declined exponentially.
qazwsxedc34Yup, my 2012 recoils were bombproof. They had thick edges, top sheet was extremely durable, better than atomic, Line, and most brands then and now. The base was strong, and their profile made them so fun to ski on while still being very stable. Weirdly, they took out the urethane underfoot when the shreditor 92 came out in 2013. I noticed a big difference in feeling and performance. Rubber/Urethane underfoot, on tips/tales or above edges seems to increase durability and dampening feeling.
After the recoils, the shreditors declined in quality, and the top sheets were shit. They were two different skis yet K2 was claiming they were basically the same thing. Maybe in 2015/16 did K2 skis really start to decline. Maybe not on par with Line, though Line 2015 maple block SFB108's are probably more durable than the k2 reckoner series today, but once line went the flax route and made SFB's sloppy penis, the quality declined exponentially.
2012 K2 was certainly bombproof. What happened?
So many people still ride petitors a decade later. Did the ski industry suddenly decide to go the planned obsolescence route?
supremeblientelei honestly cringe when i see park rats on 800$ ON3P's or something of that caliber. like why tf r u spending so much guap on a ski that ur just gonna trash by the end of the season, and doesnt really perform that much better (considering ur skiing park) than something made for 1/2 the price.
Prepare to cringe, these are all for park skiing lmao. Yes, even the wood veneers. I can never go back
The unmounted pair are actually the osama pros now, I need to take a new family picture
Writing "not hating" in the end of a hate post doesn't remove the hate in the post. People have jobs, jobs make you money. You should try it.
Having the ability to buy multiple pairs of expensive skis is more about prioritizing than you must believe it to be. Not about the money necessarily, but about the willingness to do so. Yes, there's a ton of people with more money than they know where to spend it to, but it's not like everyone with $5000+ of ski gear is rich in any means.
supremeblientelewhat kind of hustle do u have that allows u to purchase 4,000$+ worth of the same model ski - not counting bindings
either u have rich parents or ur just extremely financially retarded.
not hating i un ironically wish my parents were stacked and that i had a phat trustfund
supremeblientelewhat kind of hustle do u have that allows u to purchase 4,000$+ worth of the same model ski - not counting bindings
either u have rich parents or ur just extremely financially retarded.
not hating i un ironically wish my parents were stacked and that i had a phat trustfund
It's not as dramatic as you think. Been working an average white collar job for almost 10 years now. Average parents. Accumulated those skis over the course of several years. It takes me about 3 seasons to break a pair, so I estimate I have enough skis to last me well into my 40's
Skiing is actually cheaper than a lot of adult hobbies. A lot of my friends my age are into even more expensive hobbies like cars/motorcycles/boats/endless home improvement projects and all sorts of shit. None of them came from "trust funds" or anything either. Season passes are dirt cheap where I live, like 300$
I probably posted this in another thread but there are two points I'd actually like to make about durability. I ski a lot of skis, but rarely long enough or hard enough to break them these days. However, when I was skiing harder, I rarely noticed a big difference between brands (with a couple of exceptions), I'll get to that. However in general I have a fairly simple theory, and it's this: The more pairs of skis you sell to park skiers, the worse your reputation for durability gets.
My general rule is scale gives you a worse reputation with the same actual break rate. I'll explain.
Small brand starts up, makes fun skis, they sell 500 pairs, maybe 5 break in unexpected ways, which means at most there are 5 unhappy customers. Perhaps two or three complain on NS/Instagram... so that's a 1% break rate and say a 0.5% bitching rate. But the brand is cool, it grows now they sell 5000 pairs. Even with no change in the breakage of skis, you suddenly have 50 pairs break and maybe 25-30 people complaining about their skis online. Suddenly you have 20 threads calling your skis shit, and it doesn't take many actual complaints to create an impression that something is wrong. Lo and behold, nothing has changed but your extraordinary durability reputation is falling away.
My impression is most skis hold up pretty well most of the time, with a few exceptions. There clearly are cases where skis have issues. In general, brands are pretty open about it, at least towards the end of a product's life. Salomon edge armour (exploding skis), Faction Candides (snapping), Rossignol Slats topsheets blew apart, Line skis (particularly the Blend (what do you expect by the way, have you felt those things?)) snapping, ON3Ps don't work in ditches (ok, that one wasn't real).
Salomon are an exception, they tend to carry on in the face of the obvious but most brands switch it up pretty quickly. Line know they have had issues for a couple of seasons now, especially with the park line. K2 know the Reckoner (102 in particular, probably because it gets used in the park) also has issues. Next season sees changes.
I haven't seen it but I believe K2 have beefed up the Reckoner 102 for this coming season. I have the new '24 Line Bacon and that thing looks like a tank next to the old one. The new Chronics are also massively beefed up. I feel pretty confident saying if you are serious about skiing, buy a Chronic/Bacon not a Wallisch/Blend from next season. Faction pulled their really questionable skis and they brought out the Studio series, which feels very solid (I never had big issues with the Prodigy line either). These things go up and down, and one thing we forget is pros are often not all that hard on their skis... they land well, they generally ski smoothly and crash in to less stuff, so stuff does come up unexpectedly once things hit production.
Faction pulled their really questionable skis and they brought out the Studio series, which feels very solid (I never had big issues with the Prodigy line either). These things go up and down, and one thing we forget is pros are often not all that hard on their skis... they land well, they generally ski smoothly and crash in to less stuff, so stuff does come up unexpectedly once things hit production.[/quote]
I will second this in regards to the prodigy. I did see a lot of Candide 2.0s blow up though.
To add to pros not being as hard on their skis, they generally don't have to keep riding a pair of skis once they start falling apart. When edges start breaking and delam happens, it's much easier for a ski to break. Most of use have to keep using the skis when they start wearing out, but when someone representing a brand has that happen, a new pair is available.
For instance, I expect to get 300-500 days out of a ski before it's rendered unusable (barring things like ditches and landing on rocks). I'd be surprised if many pros would use the same pair of skis for 60 days.
tominiemenmaaWriting "not hating" in the end of a hate post doesn't remove the hate in the post. People have jobs, jobs make you money. You should try it.
Having the ability to buy multiple pairs of expensive skis is more about prioritizing than you must believe it to be. Not about the money necessarily, but about the willingness to do so. Yes, there's a ton of people with more money than they know where to spend it to, but it's not like everyone with $5000+ of ski gear is rich in any means.
I've been skiing on my EP Pros since the 2008/2009 season and they still slay. I've had seasons with 150 days on the snow. Not every day with the EPs, but still. Here they are this 22/23 winter. I love this ski.
In 2015 I got some Line Mordecais and it has been my daily mixed-conditions ski since then. However, on powder days I still take my EPs. These skis last. They really hold up well when hitting rocks compared to my friends' gear.
That said, my park days are over. Back in my younger days I did wreck quite a few Armadas, 9thward, and Surface skis on rails. Isn't that normal? Isn't that why rail skis are supposed to be cheap and disposable?
supremeblienteleif ur gonna ski park get a cheap ski. no use dropping cash on something thats gonna get smashed regardless. lines will do just fine
here’s the thing, lines will legitimately get trashed, to the point where you can’t even ride em. Snapped, sidewall completely blown out to where you can see wood core, serious delam at tip or tail, etc.
other skis, let’s take on3p for example, will get “““““trashed”””””” aka edges crack and come out. Which is fine. You’re right, if you’re riding rails you don’t need edge, but the more legit brands like on3p or Icelantic or vishnu will still be rideable when they’re “trashed”. Aka edges fall out and maybe you get some sidewall warping. You don’t have to deal with classic Line issues like snaps, complete underfoot delam (to where it lifts your binding and your screws pretty much aren’t attached to the entire wood core anymore), major delam of the tip and tail to where it affects how the ski flexes, etc.
and let alone all of this having a high chance of happening in a short amount of time spent on the ski.
weatcoasthere’s the thing, lines will legitimately get trashed, to the point where you can’t even ride em. Snapped, sidewall completely blown out to where you can see wood core, serious delam at tip or tail, etc.
other skis, let’s take on3p for example, will get “““““trashed”””””” aka edges crack and come out. Which is fine. You’re right, if you’re riding rails you don’t need edge, but the more legit brands like on3p or Icelantic or vishnu will still be rideable when they’re “trashed”. Aka edges fall out and maybe you get some sidewall warping. You don’t have to deal with classic Line issues like snaps, complete underfoot delam (to where it lifts your binding and your screws pretty much aren’t attached to the entire wood core anymore), major delam of the tip and tail to where it affects how the ski flexes, etc.
and let alone all of this having a high chance of happening in a short amount of time spent on the ski.
true all good points. im all for giving our money to rider owned brands who make solid products, but at the same time i dont think most 14 year old kids need a pair of 8-900$ on3ps to do front swaps and 270s out of rails. its more reasonable imo to get something in the 2-300$ range. i dont ski much park anymore tho so im prolly a bit out of touch with just how bad lines quality has got
supremeblientelewhat kind of hustle do u have that allows u to purchase 4,000$+ worth of the same model ski - not counting bindings
either u have rich parents or ur just extremely financially retarded.
not hating i un ironically wish my parents were stacked and that i had a phat trustfund
It's really not hard to acquire that much gear when you start working full time. If you know how to budget, get shit on sale, it's really not that hard to wind up with thousands of dollars worth of gear.
Farmville420It's really not hard to acquire that much gear when you start working full time. If you know how to budget, get shit on sale, it's really not that hard to wind up with thousands of dollars worth of gear.
over the course of a few years no doubt, ive prolly got 2-3k worth of skis/bindings alone. but that has taken years to accumulate, as well as having to sell old skis / working fulltime
i was quick to judge and thought homie bought 4-5k worth of the same on3p's in one order. (which would be some rich kid shit)
i still think having 5 pairs of 900$ skis to trash in the park is dumb tho, but whatever, to each is own .... hyped that he at least bought on3ps and gave that money to some good people.
supremeblienteleover the course of a few years no doubt, ive prolly got 2-3k worth of skis/bindings alone. but that has taken years to accumulate, as well as having to sell old skis / working fulltime
i was quick to judge and thought homie bought 4-5k worth of the same on3p's in one order. (which would be some rich kid shit)
i still think having 5 pairs of 900$ skis to trash in the park is dumb tho, but whatever, to each is own .... hyped that he at least bought on3ps and gave that money to some good people.
Idk it depends. Eventually after a while you find that perfect ski and you stock up. After a few years I’ll probably wind up with 3-4 pairs of zahner Allplays cuz it’s the best ski I’ve ridden. Bet rparr felt the same about those ON3P’s.
