Moment Skis durability - what's your experience with them?

kittywampusI bought a pair of Wildcat 108s last year and after less than 1 season the bases are in pretty bad shape. I did hit plenty of rocks and debris and stuff, but I've hit plenty of rocks on other skis too and they never got damaged this easily. I've got whole chunks of the base missing, which bums me out since a lot of this damage is deep and right next to the edges.

Check out the photos. Does this seem normal after about 24 days of shredding? If you ride Moments, have you had this issue too or did they hold up better?

People always say they're "bombproof" but tbh I'm disappointed in the durability of these so far. I have a pair of 2015 atomic bentchetlers that I've ridden hundreds of days, including hitting rocks and even patches of grass and dirt, and the bases are in better condition than my much newer Moments. They've been chewed up a bit but I have *never* had whole chunks of the base get ripped out.

I'm probably just going to get them repaired locally and deal with it, but it's annoying that I'll feel like I have to baby these things compared to my other skis.

GhiniThere are only a certain amount of base materials out there that all manufacturers use. None of the brands have their own. Same goes for edges. Although Moment gives those edges extra heat treatment. Some bases are more expensive so brands decide what type goes on what skis. Cheaper skis get cheaper bases. Moment has always put higher end bases on their skis. I have skied 6 pairs of Moments and a ton of other brands over the years. ( I used to test a lot of skis for work ) Moments have always had great built quality, better than most brands.

GhiniThere are only a certain amount of base materials out there that all manufacturers use. None of the brands have their own. Same goes for edges. Although Moment gives those edges extra heat treatment. Some bases are more expensive so brands decide what type goes on what skis. Cheaper skis get cheaper bases. Moment has always put higher end bases on their skis. I have skied 6 pairs of Moments and a ton of other brands over the years. ( I used to test a lot of skis for work ) Moments have always had great built quality, better than most brands.

What actually matters a lot to bases is wax. Base material is porous, it has micro holes and channels in it so it can hold wax. If a base is full with wax, so not only a quick top layer of wax but so that the whole base layer material is filled with wax, it is a lot stronger than when there is little wax in there. So if you only do a quick thin layer of wax on there, ski it off, thin layer again etc you will never have strong bases. Probably half the material will be porous that way. Bases with little wax will scratch easier but when you hit a rock it takes out a pieces much easier. Those holes and channels can be pushed in if there is no wax in them.
Also, I think all brands use cheap soft quick wax in their factories. Wax that out and built up a solid wax system. Start with a deep hard wax. (If possible with a heatbox, or take it to a shop who can do that.) If the base is saturated, take a layer off by hot waxing and scraping off right away and then apply the type of wax you want to use. You will notice the difference in durability of your bases.

bustedpivotlol

kittywampusOne interesting variable - I recently moved from the PNW to SLC and the different geological composition of these ranges is probably a factor.

GhiniWhat actually matters a lot to bases is wax. Base material is porous, it has micro holes and channels in it so it can hold wax. If a base is full with wax, so not only a quick top layer of wax but so that the whole base layer material is filled with wax, it is a lot stronger than when there is little wax in there. So if you only do a quick thin layer of wax on there, ski it off, thin layer again etc you will never have strong bases. Probably half the material will be porous that way. Bases with little wax will scratch easier but when you hit a rock it takes out a pieces much easier. Those holes and channels can be pushed in if there is no wax in them.

Also, I think all brands use cheap soft quick wax in their factories. Wax that out and built up a solid wax system. Start with a deep hard wax. (If possible with a heatbox, or take it to a shop who can do that.) If the base is saturated, take a layer off by hot waxing and scraping off right away and then apply the type of wax you want to use. You will notice the difference in durability of your bases.

GhiniThere are only a certain amount of base materials out there that all manufacturers use. None of the brands have their own. Same goes for edges. Although Moment gives those edges extra heat treatment. Some bases are more expensive so brands decide what type goes on what skis. Cheaper skis get cheaper bases. Moment has always put higher end bases on their skis. I have skied 6 pairs of Moments and a ton of other brands over the years. ( I used to test a lot of skis for work ) Moments have always had great built quality, better than most brands.

What actually matters a lot to bases is wax. Base material is porous, it has micro holes and channels in it so it can hold wax. If a base is full with wax, so not only a quick top layer of wax but so that the whole base layer material is filled with wax, it is a lot stronger than when there is little wax in there. So if you only do a quick thin layer of wax on there, ski it off, thin layer again etc you will never have strong bases. Probably half the material will be porous that way. Bases with little wax will scratch easier but when you hit a rock it takes out a pieces much easier. Those holes and channels can be pushed in if there is no wax in them.
Also, I think all brands use cheap soft quick wax in their factories. Wax that out and built up a solid wax system. Start with a deep hard wax. (If possible with a heatbox, or take it to a shop who can do that.) If the base is saturated, take a layer off by hot waxing and scraping off right away and then apply the type of wax you want to use. You will notice the difference in durability of your bases.

kittywampusThis is kinda interesting. I'm pretty good about hot waxing at home, but I also got Phantom applied to these bases and a homie of mine that worked at DPS told me it might affect the base's ability to absorb wax. AFAIK there's nothing wrong with waxing on top of Phantom, but maybe it doesn't penetrate as well.

GhiniYou have applied Phantom to the bases you posted the pictures of? I never applied Phantom but we were looking into it with the shop I worked at. As far as I can remember you completely fill the base material with Phantom. Sure you can put a layer of wax on that but it will go off right away as it is not in the base material. But again, I am not sure..

kittywampusI recently moved from the PNW to SLC and the different geological composition of these ranges is probably a factor. Very different mountains with very different rocks. There's a lot of granite and quartzite in the Wasatch Range, which are generally harder than the primarily volcanic igneous rock found in the Cascades. Harder / sharper rocks would inflict more damage so I imagine that's part of it.

IsaacNW82Maritime vs Intermountain snowpack, too. Maritime snowpacks are deeper, denser, more water content snow and thus cover the rocks much better.

kittywampusI had my buddy do it at the DPS factory, but yeah they were Phantomed up at the very beginning of the season when they were brand new. Maybe rode like 1 day before having it done.

Yep they say Phantom goes all the way through the base. I was skeptical so I asked the owner of a local shop in SLC a bunch of questions about it. He said he was skeptical too when it was first released and he wanted to test out whether or not it really penetrates all the way down. So he applied Phantom (they've got one of those crazy UV boxes there), and then he apparently ground down the bases repeatedly to see if it went all the way through the base. Not sure how he could tell... but he destroyed the skis to find out and he sounded confident that it fills the full depth of the base.

You're prally right that waxing on top of it is mostly superficial. I don't wax these ones as often as my others, don't usually feel the need to. But I have found (as have others I've talked to) that the advantage Phantom gives you isn't very pronounced in slushy spring conditions. Once it gets warm/wet out they get a touch sluggish so I just wax on top of it every 3 days of riding or so.

shin-bangCurrently on Moments (CB and Ghost Trains) and i ride an extremely rocky resort. Id say moments base durability is average alongside k2, 4frnt, etc. After coming off 2 other pairs of ON3Ps, I would say ON3Ps are the most durable and their is a noticeable difference between the two. This is likely due to their using of a 1.8mm +2.5x2.5 edges, vs moments layup of ~1.5mm + 2.2x2.2 edges.

I love moments skis/shapes, but feel their durability is average. you are not alone op

IsaacNW82Maritime vs Intermountain snowpack, too. Maritime snowpacks are deeper, denser, more water content snow and thus cover the rocks much better.

shin-bangCurrently on Moments (CB and Ghost Trains) and i ride an extremely rocky resort. Id say moments base durability is average alongside k2, 4frnt, etc. After coming off 2 other pairs of ON3Ps, I would say ON3Ps are the most durable and their is a noticeable difference between the two. This is likely due to their using of a 1.8mm +2.5x2.5 edges, vs moments layup of ~1.5mm + 2.2x2.2 edges.

I love moments skis/shapes, but feel their durability is average. you are not alone op

hi_vis360Wtf is the green base made out of it seems impossibly durable, I put core shots in my skis all the time but with my on3ps I just run right over rocks and get nothing it’s wild

definitely not the fastest base though I feel like I wax them twice as often

GhiniThere are only a certain amount of base materials out there that all manufacturers use. None of the brands have their own. Same goes for edges. Although Moment gives those edges extra heat treatment. Some bases are more expensive so brands decide what type goes on what skis. Cheaper skis get cheaper bases. Moment has always put higher end bases on their skis. I have skied 6 pairs of Moments and a ton of other brands over the years. ( I used to test a lot of skis for work ) Moments have always had great built quality, better than most brands.

What actually matters a lot to bases is wax. Base material is porous, it has micro holes and channels in it so it can hold wax. If a base is full with wax, so not only a quick top layer of wax but so that the whole base layer material is filled with wax, it is a lot stronger than when there is little wax in there. So if you only do a quick thin layer of wax on there, ski it off, thin layer again etc you will never have strong bases. Probably half the material will be porous that way. Bases with little wax will scratch easier but when you hit a rock it takes out a pieces much easier. Those holes and channels can be pushed in if there is no wax in them.
Also, I think all brands use cheap soft quick wax in their factories. Wax that out and built up a solid wax system. Start with a deep hard wax. (If possible with a heatbox, or take it to a shop who can do that.) If the base is saturated, take a layer off by hot waxing and scraping off right away and then apply the type of wax you want to use. You will notice the difference in durability of your bases.

IsaacNW82Every base prep wax I've come across is very soft, so it can get deep into the base. Are there any "deep hard" waxes you recommend? I do not know of any, apart from maybe dominator renew which is a mix of hard and soft

shin-bangCurrently on Moments (CB and Ghost Trains) and i ride an extremely rocky resort. Id say moments base durability is average alongside k2, 4frnt, etc. After coming off 2 other pairs of ON3Ps, I would say ON3Ps are the most durable and their is a noticeable difference between the two. This is likely due to their using of a 1.8mm +2.5x2.5 edges, vs moments layup of ~1.5mm + 2.2x2.2 edges.

I love moments skis/shapes, but feel their durability is average. you are not alone op

kittywampusThanks man that makes me feel a little better / less crazy. For some reason I've always thought of Moment as on the same tier as ON3P in terms of durability. My brother has Jeffreys and Kartels and when we shred together he often hits the exact same rocks as I do on the Wildcats, but he doesn't have a single core shot.

Turd__AuthorityLiterally the same sintered base material moment uses— Durasurf 4001

Op in this thread is wack

Turd__AuthorityLiterally the same sintered base material moment uses— Durasurf 4001

Op in this thread is wack

cydwhitThis. This x1000. I used to ski a pretty maritime snowpack, that, combined with PNW geology meant that snow stuck to most terrain really well. I got one coreshot in like five years of skiing there. And that one core shot was from a rock that was above the snow that I ran over like an idiot. Now, living in the Tetons, with a similar snowpack and geology to you in the Wasatch, I get waaaaay more base damage, regardless of ski. And I get core shots from rocks I never even see. The snow just doesn't stick to the rocks as well, and instead of having big, smooth rocks, that sort of follow the contour of the snow, we have more jagged, random, pointy rocks that will shark you harder.

I've had pretty solid durability with Moments, and I've put a bunch of days on various pairs over the last 7 years. As stated above, core shots aren't a great gauge of a ski's durability, since bases are pretty similar between most brands. A better gauge is delams and sidewall compressions because they reflect things the ski maker is in control of, like the layup, resin, temp, etc.

Turd__AuthorityOp in this thread is wack

Turd__AuthorityYou're really making a fool of yourself with this thread.

kittywampusThanks man! You seem like a chill person

myguyFunny - I have last years Wildcat 108s too.

Just figured out today they are completely shot. Screws stripped in both heels. I trust the people who initially did the mount job.

I definitely beat the shit out of my skis. I live in Mammoth Lakes, and we have plenty of rocks. My bases held up fine.

Im torn because they were probably the favorite ski in my quiver, but I also like to get more than a year out of a pair of skis. I was planning on using those things for three years in the my bag. They made it like 1.15 years.

myguyFunny - I have last years Wildcat 108s too.

Just figured out today they are completely shot. Screws stripped in both heels. I trust the people who initially did the mount job.

mystery3Pics? Do you leave your skis wet or store in a less than ideal location?

myguyIts not a wet location. They are stored in my insulated garage, vertically, usually either up against my workbench or benchpress.

The tech who looked at the stripping said it was too big for his biggest coils.


*edit* I mean they aren't stored wet, and there isnt a ton of moisture in the garage.

**This post was edited on Dec 19th 2022 at 4:56:36pm

**This post was edited on Dec 19th 2022 at 4:56:57pm

mystery3You might want to email about warranty but to me it looks like a bad mount, like the holes weren't sealed properly.

link80Bummer that you hit some rocks, some sharp ones too. Those Wildcats are several years old because we haven't used orange base in awhile. That orange base is actually Crown Durasurf 4001, I can tell due the white ALA backing we have Crown add to those pop colors.

We use Isosport 7000 series base material on every die cut base we have made the last several years. The first year we transitioned to primarily die cut bases we used a mixture of Crown and Isosport as the pop color.

We made this move from Crown Durasurf 4001 for a few reasons:

- The Isosport 7000 black base is carbon infused, its faster, takes wax way better than Durasurf, looks good even when all your wax wears off your base and is higher quality than anything Crown can produce. Crown has really been dropping the ball the last few years and doesn't care much about skiing. Isosport is dedicated to skiing and makes a majority of the material for all the major European manufacturers.

- The Crown Durasurf 4001 we use/used (same material as ON3P just a tad thinner) is definitely one of the hardest bases on the market but it has its draw backs. Crowns tolerance is all over the place and makes it a pain to grind. It doesn't take wax very well. The solid colors "dry out" and look washed/grey if you don't wax them a lot.

The first 15 years or so we always used Crown Durasurf 4001. We still use it on a couple models, like when you see a sublimated graphic base on our skis. We are also 100% transparent on our website and let you know what materials we put in our skis.

Everyone skis a different line on the mountain and rocks are harder and sharper than ski base. I get it, you bought new, they are expensive and hitting rocks sucks but this is standard wear and tear caused by an unlucky line choice which could happen to any ski on the market.

Regardless, we are always here to take care of you anyway we can. At our factory we still service and tune skis we made 18 years ago. We try to help people out with single skis if something catastrophic happens. We do this for our customers even if they are out of the 2 year warranty window or if its not even a warranty case.

Yes, we are a business, but we are skiers first and use the best materials and construction techniques we know about and have access to.

I am not always on NS but if you guys have any other questions feel free to stop by the website and chat with the factory Tues-Fri 8-6. A lot of the folks chatting used to work on the factory floor so they really know what they are talking about. You can also call the factory direct 775-527-1595.

luke@momentskis.com