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How to make skiing more affordable

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foolmetwice
Posts: 605 - Karma: 1,069
An assignment for one of my poli sci classes about the way capitalism commodifies parts of our identities got me thinking about the cost of skiing. It's no secret that for the average person, skiing is basically untenable. Even at the tiniest midwestern hills a lift ticket generally costs upwards of $50 these days. Out west that's more like $100 minimum. Throw in the cost of rentals and transportation and its remarkable there are any new skiers at all. I'm sure others have discussed this, but given that a majority of ski areas (at least in the west) are on public lands, is it time for the government to start regulating the cost of lift tickets at ski areas on public lands? Another solution would be for the larger ski areas to start subsidizing smaller "feeder" ski areas but I don't see this happening. Frankly, I'm quite happy paying $650 for a (college) ikon pass and skiing over 100 days a year at a bunch of different world class mountains, but that's not going to work for the entry level skier. So what are some solutions, outside or inside the box, to combat the cost of skiing and help grow the sport?

**This thread was edited on Nov 11th 2022 at 12:58:50am
Nov 11 2022 12:57AM
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foolmetwice
Posts: 605 - Karma: 1,069
oops can a mod move this to ski gabber?
Nov 11 2022 12:57AM
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iFlip
Posts: 4543 - Karma: 19,132
Growing the sport matters most to the resorts. They are the ones who stand to benefit the most. Clearly they see that upper middle class and upper class folks provide plenty of revenue and do not see a need to grow the sport further. Additionally, can resorts handle greater capacity? Lift lines already stretch quite far. Parking is difficult. There simply may not be room to grow the sport.
Nov 11 2022 7:30AM
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STEEZUS_CHRI5T
Posts: 2923 - Karma: 22,202
Sorry but I don't feel that those prices can be lowered (as much as I'd like them to be).
1. Inflation
2. The government would need to benefit from regulating ticket costs and it's too small of a problem for them to be concerned with anyway.
3. In most cases when you buy in bulk, suppliers are happy to lower the prices and take less profit when they know the sale is a sure thing. All year they have season pass users locked in buying their food, drinks, parking spots/shuttles, merchandise, lessons, shop services..etc. I don't see them pandering to the people who rarely use their product.

Unless there's an economic collapse or a world war to shake things up, I feel that prices can only increase.

**This post was edited on Nov 11th 2022 at 7:59:17am
Nov 11 2022 7:57AM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
Skiing should be more expensive. Too many mf's as it is.
Nov 11 2022 9:46AM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
ASSholebomber22Skiing should be more expensive. Too many mf's as it is.


Op clearly hasn’t driven on i70 in the past decade. Skiing has had no problems bringing in new people.
Nov 11 2022 2:21PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
Craw_DaddyOp clearly hasn’t driven on i70 in the past decade. Skiing has had no problems bringing in new people.


Seriously. The last thing skiing needs is more accessibility to people who don't care about it. If you want to ski and you're of average intelligence and physical ability, you'll ski. Accessibility talk is just sanctimonious pandering.
Nov 11 2022 2:32PM
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foolmetwice
Posts: 605 - Karma: 1,069
Despite what the liftlines at ur local mega resort may lead you to believe, the number of skiers is shrinking. There are less skiers, skiing more days, at fewer ski areas
Nov 11 2022 2:55PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
foolmetwiceDespite what the liftlines at ur local mega resort may lead you to believe, the number of skiers is shrinking. There are less skiers, skiing more days, at fewer ski areas


I don't ski mega resorts. Nice try tho. Sorry midwest trashhill skiing is dieing or whatever.
Nov 11 2022 2:59PM
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foolmetwice
Posts: 605 - Karma: 1,069
ASSholebomber22I don't ski mega resorts. Nice try tho. Sorry midwest trashhill skiing is dieing or whatever.

“nice try tho” ah damn I almost got you! Or wait maybe this is not a gotcha discussion and you could just shut up if you don’t have anything meaningful to contribute
Nov 11 2022 3:23PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
foolmetwiceDespite what the liftlines at ur local mega resort may lead you to believe, the number of skiers is shrinking. There are less skiers, skiing more days, at fewer ski areas

I legitimately do not care. There are too many people in the mountains as it is. Having a quarter million jerrys funneling through I70 every weekend ruins the experience. Talk to any hunting or fishing guide, talk to rock climbers, talk to kayakers, talk to old redneck locals. They will all tell you the same thing… having tons of people around you ruins your experience in the mountains. Skiing is no different. I am willing to pay a premium to get the fuck away from other people. I do not want this sport to be more affordable.

**This post was edited on Nov 11th 2022 at 3:25:47pm
Nov 11 2022 3:25PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
foolmetwice“nice try tho” ah damn I almost got you! Or wait maybe this is not a gotcha discussion and you could just shut up if you don’t have anything meaningful to contribute


Just because its not what you want to hear echoed back to you doesn't mean its not meaningful.
Nov 11 2022 3:30PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
foolmetwice“nice try tho” ah damn I almost got you! Or wait maybe this is not a gotcha discussion and you could just shut up if you don’t have anything meaningful to contribute


Dude you came on here with one of the most brain dead self-righteous-college-kid takes of all time and got mad when someone gave an opposing view lmao. The government won’t regulate ski ticket prices because the do not have the legal authority to do so. For one, ski resorts are privately owned and they LEASE the land from the government. And two, with out profit, the ski resorts would fail and the local economies would fail with them as they rely heavily on tourists.
Nov 11 2022 3:39PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
Craw_DaddyDude you came on here with one of the most brain dead self-righteous-college-kid takes of all time and got mad when someone gave an opposing view lmao. The government won’t regulate ski ticket prices because the do not have the legal authority to do so. For one, ski resorts are privately owned and they LEASE the land from the government. And two, with out profit, the ski resorts would fail and the local economies would fail with them as they rely heavily on tourists.


You can tell this kid's never paid for a damn thing in his life acting like 100 bucks for a days worth of activities is anything anymore.
Nov 11 2022 3:57PM
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STEEZUS_CHRI5T
Posts: 2923 - Karma: 22,202
The like/dislike ration is perfectly balanced on all comments, so weird.
Nov 11 2022 4:03PM
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GrapeHunter
Posts: 2398 - Karma: 8,635
scamming kids on snowshare is essential to making things cheaper
Nov 12 2022 4:12AM
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Icant_kfed
Posts: 1274 - Karma: 11,538
ASSholebomber22Seriously. The last thing skiing needs is more accessibility to people who don't care about it. If you want to ski and you're of average intelligence and physical ability, you'll ski. Accessibility talk is just sanctimonious pandering.


I’m yet to see someone of average intelligence at my local
Nov 12 2022 9:26AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6960 - Karma: 60,852
All the old heads love to say skiing is dying and visitation is decreasing but my experience has been the opposite. SAM (ski area management) data supports my conclusion.

I get what you mean about accessibility and it being accessible to, primarily, a certain demographic. But the reality is that infrastructure is at its limit in the western states. I think the primary issue is roads and resort layout regarding lifts. I can go along I-70 and tell you all the choke points. Everyone is a merge point. It’s the same in Tahoe. Same with lifts. Funneling into one area and causing a bottleneck. I, largely, blame the structure of mega passes as the genesis. Instead of “maybe we’ll go out west” it became “we will go skiing in December out west and use our local epic pass”. It snowballed from there.

I actually studied this shit in college, if you can believe that
Nov 12 2022 1:38PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6960 - Karma: 60,852
Also, I hate to be a Debby downer but eastern resorts largely function as feeders for western resorts in the scheme of things. Why do you think people like Vail bought Peak resorts? A sub $10 stock.

Plus, we’re not seeing a decrease in visitation but rather a consolidation of visits to certain resorts and the moms and pop resorts are dying as a result. I could go for days about this shit.
BradFiAusNzCoCaAll the old heads love to say skiing is dying and visitation is decreasing but my experience has been the opposite. SAM (ski area management) data supports my conclusion.

I get what you mean about accessibility and it being accessible to, primarily, a certain demographic. But the reality is that infrastructure is at its limit in the western states. I think the primary issue is roads and resort layout regarding lifts. I can go along I-70 and tell you all the choke points. Everyone is a merge point. It’s the same in Tahoe. Same with lifts. Funneling into one area and causing a bottleneck. I, largely, blame the structure of mega passes as the genesis. Instead of “maybe we’ll go out west” it became “we will go skiing in December out west and use our local epic pass”. It snowballed from there.

I actually studied this shit in college, if you can believe that
Nov 12 2022 1:57PM
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SamuelForsgren
Posts: 144 - Karma: 1,462
Season pass is like 170$ in my local
Nov 12 2022 2:16PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6960 - Karma: 60,852
My local in Finland was the same. 169€
SamuelForsgrenSeason pass is like 170$ in my local
Nov 12 2022 2:55PM
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SamuelForsgren
Posts: 144 - Karma: 1,462
BradFiAusNzCoCaMy local in Finland was the same. 169€


Yeah i live in Sweden. Seems to be crazy expensive to ski in america everybody posting about
Nov 12 2022 3:27PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6960 - Karma: 60,852
Yeah it’s not. It’s gotten insane. Even comparing a day ticket. Ruka was 44€ during New Years. America would be more along $100+ up to as high as $250 depending on resort.
SamuelForsgrenYeah i live in Sweden. Seems to be crazy expensive to ski in america everybody posting about
Nov 12 2022 4:41PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
Craw_DaddyI legitimately do not care. There are too many people in the mountains as it is. Having a quarter million jerrys funneling through I70 every weekend ruins the experience. Talk to any hunting or fishing guide, talk to rock climbers, talk to kayakers, talk to old redneck locals. They will all tell you the same thing… having tons of people around you ruins your experience in the mountains. Skiing is no different. I am willing to pay a premium to get the fuck away from other people. I do not want this sport to be more affordable.

**This post was edited on Nov 11th 2022 at 3:25:47pm


This is why people hate skiers. Self righteous elitist douchebags who don’t see themselves as a contributor to the congestion on the mountain.

Stop skiing resorts and get into touring if you want to get away from people.
Nov 12 2022 5:36PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -673
ASSholebomber22Skiing should be more expensive. Too many mf's as it is.


I'm going to Inner BC Xmas-NYE for 9 days my rental car will cost more than everything else combined. Hotels 50/night and might only buy 1-2 lift tickets I'm probably going to ski off the pass before that trip.

Marmot Basin, Revy, KH, Panorama, LL, Banff I doubt I wait in any liftline more than 5 mins.
Nov 12 2022 5:57PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -673
S.J.WThis is why people hate skiers. Self righteous elitist douchebags who don’t see themselves as a contributor to the congestion on the mountain.

Stop skiing resorts and get into touring if you want to get away from people.


Yeah go cause slides and make SAR risk their lives... Fucking douchebag there are already too many idiots in the backcountry we don't need more.
Nov 12 2022 5:58PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
S.J.WThis is why people hate skiers. Self righteous elitist douchebags who don’t see themselves as a contributor to the congestion on the mountain.

Stop skiing resorts and get into touring if you want to get away from people.


Bro uses self righteous elitist douchebag and 'go touring' in the same sentence HA
Nov 12 2022 6:11PM
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BigmoneyMatt
Posts: 1545 - Karma: 1,185
Old depressed ski instructors need to go first of all.
Nov 12 2022 6:11PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
S.J.WThis is why people hate skiers. Self righteous elitist douchebags who don’t see themselves as a contributor to the congestion on the mountain.

Stop skiing resorts and get into touring if you want to get away from people.


Stay in Austria please

**This post was edited on Nov 12th 2022 at 6:51:27pm
Nov 12 2022 6:48PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
PeppermillRenoYeah go cause slides and make SAR risk their lives... Fucking douchebag there are already too many idiots in the backcountry we don't need more.


It’s true I will trigger slides. Above people.
Nov 12 2022 6:49PM
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SteezyYeeter
Posts: 3617 - Karma: -12,152
foolmetwiceDespite what the liftlines at ur local mega resort may lead you to believe, the number of skiers is shrinking. There are less skiers, skiing more days, at fewer ski areas


stats or a study? not to be argumentative but i'm interested. because ask anybody that skis and they'll tell you the exact opposite.
Nov 12 2022 6:49PM
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SteezyYeeter
Posts: 3617 - Karma: -12,152
the way to make it more affordable is to get out as much as possible.
Nov 12 2022 6:50PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6394 - Karma: 69,424
SteezyYeeterthe way to make it more affordable is to get out as much as possible.

Not really. I probably spend 2-3 times more on gas just for skiing than any pass plus ski gear each season
Nov 12 2022 7:09PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
ReturnToMonkeyNot really. I probably spend 2-3 times more on gas just for skiing than any pass plus ski gear each season


That just means skiing's cheap over a season but driving a car up a mountain often isn't
Nov 12 2022 7:23PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6394 - Karma: 69,424
ASSholebomber22That just means skiing's cheap over a season but driving a car up a mountain often isn't

Right, the more you go skiing, the more you have to drive a car to get there. Even if it's just a 10 min drive to hit some street.
Nov 12 2022 7:33PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
PeppermillRenoYeah go cause slides and make SAR risk their lives... Fucking douchebag there are already too many idiots in the backcountry we don't need more.


You are one of those idiots in the back country. I can guarantee you, that someone who has been into ski touring longer than you thinks you’re the idiot in the back country.


And it was purely to highlight his hypocrisy, of course no one should go into the back country without proper guidance and training. But as you see, he is complaining about more people coming to his resort, then the option to avoid said people is touring. But then those in the touring scene don’t want him there.


It’s a fundamental paradox of majority of nature activities and hobbies, climbing, hiking, surfing, etc. And it doesn’t have a clear concise answer to solve it.
Nov 12 2022 9:13PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 36,027
BradFiAusNzCoCaAlso, I hate to be a Debby downer but eastern resorts largely function as feeders for western resorts in the scheme of things. Why do you think people like Vail bought Peak resorts? A sub $10 stock.

Plus, we’re not seeing a decrease in visitation but rather a consolidation of visits to certain resorts and the moms and pop resorts are dying as a result. I could go for days about this shit.


True with the east coast being feeder mountains, but at least in my area the price to get into the sport skyrocketed when vail came to town. Learning to ski at a east coast vail resort is not something I would recommend, way more expensive than the smaller corporations (mom and pop resorts dont seem to be a think here anymore)
Nov 12 2022 9:21PM
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Dilldoes
Posts: 761 - Karma: 5,853
ASSholebomber22Seriously. The last thing skiing needs is more accessibility to people who don't care about it. If you want to ski and you're of average intelligence and physical ability, you'll ski. Accessibility talk is just sanctimonious pandering.


I would happily pay double of what a season pass is now to keep the plebs out of the mountains. Shorter lift lines and less traffic is completely worth the money.
Nov 12 2022 9:47PM
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SteezyYeeter
Posts: 3617 - Karma: -12,152
ASSholebomber22That just means skiing's cheap over a season but driving a car up a mountain often isn't


oh yeah lol. i didn't think of that cause i don't really have to worry about it yet
Nov 12 2022 9:47PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,840
DilldoesI would happily pay double of what a season pass is now to keep the plebs out of the mountains. Shorter lift lines and less traffic is completely worth the money.


Real talk.

Y'all cry fuck vail this fuck vail that but don't realize a single mountain pass use to be 2-3x what an epic or ikon pass is now.
Nov 12 2022 9:53PM
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SteezyYeeter
Posts: 3617 - Karma: -12,152
ASSholebomber22Real talk.

Y'all cry fuck vail this fuck vail that but don't realize a single mountain pass use to be 2-3x what an epic or ikon pass is now.

yeah, fuck vail... for making passes cheap. #makeskiingexpensiveagain
Nov 12 2022 9:59PM
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malchik
Posts: 42 - Karma: -411
gatekeeping is a good thing. The moment anything touches the mainstream it dies a pathetic death. Surfing has already been largely killed by crowds outside of a few heavily localized breaks and this trend has no foreseeable end in sight. Skiing can be corporatized and held up by the rotten scaffolding that is the mega corp resort during economic downturn but will inevitably end up killing itself going those route as a result of overcrowding and understaffing. I’d tell you to pick up [REDACTED] but then the brainless masses would ruin that too.
Nov 12 2022 11:06PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6960 - Karma: 60,852
Yeah they subsidize the pass and increase the price of everything else because their corporate structure is to own everything. They “lock you” in that way and convert you for on mountain purchases. So it is totally their game to increase the costs.

Even many retail shops aren’t Company shops there. I remember the Oakley shop, and a few others, in the village I worked at was a vail shop set up to look like an Oakley shop.
TOAST.True with the east coast being feeder mountains, but at least in my area the price to get into the sport skyrocketed when vail came to town. Learning to ski at a east coast vail resort is not something I would recommend, way more expensive than the smaller corporations (mom and pop resorts dont seem to be a think here anymore)
Nov 12 2022 11:32PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -673
S.J.WYou are one of those idiots in the back country. I can guarantee you, that someone who has been into ski touring longer than you thinks you’re the idiot in the back country.


And it was purely to highlight his hypocrisy, of course no one should go into the back country without proper guidance and training. But as you see, he is complaining about more people coming to his resort, then the option to avoid said people is touring. But then those in the touring scene don’t want him there.


It’s a fundamental paradox of majority of nature activities and hobbies, climbing, hiking, surfing, etc. And it doesn’t have a clear concise answer to solve it.


I think we should just embrace the influx of newcomers to the sport and expand the resorts. Removing a few trees and installing lifts is worth it if it gives a bunch of people great pleasure and reduces things like obesity. I mean go look at every defunct little ski hill the trails have all grown back in only a decade or two the harm to the land is nonexistent in the big picture.

Places like Alta-Snowbird have no more inbounds terrain than they did 30 years ago everything in the Wasatch Range could be in bounds and have interconnected lifts people legit don't want this because they want to be able to skin next to the resort and risk slides and the well being and safety of SAR.

Again sports like baseball people bemoan the lack of youth involvement I think its great skiing is bucking the trend and its also great that these super passes have affordable options for people that aren't 1%ers. There are always options to ride other lifts or ski later in the day or pick different days if you hate crowds even doing 1 run and drinking yourself stupid in the bar when its super busy can be fun.
Nov 13 2022 1:31PM
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RIP_leos_shack
Posts: 710 - Karma: 3,200
I was talking to someone from France where 40€ gets you a ticket to an area 10x the size of Vail. It seemed to come down to a few things. First is the lack of vertical integration. There might be 5 different "lift companies" with pass sharing agreements on one mountain. Rather than the Vail model where a behemoth controls everything, there are separate companies for ski school, patrol, restaurants etc.

Secondly, the ski industry is heavily subsidized by local and national governments. If an area wants to build a lift, they receive a grant from the town most of the time.

Finally there aren't the same insurance and liability concerns as in the states. If you fall off the chairlift for being an idiot, you don't get to sue the resort. Rather you just get taken to the hospital where your health care is free and learn from your mistake.
Nov 13 2022 1:41PM
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b_in_subtle
Posts: 139 - Karma: 824
ReformedBOld depressed ski instructors need to go first of all.


What about young depressed instructors?
Nov 13 2022 5:18PM
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BigmoneyMatt
Posts: 1545 - Karma: 1,185
b_in_subtleWhat about young depressed instructors?


They don't exist and I'll tell you why.

It's possible to get a depressed young dude who's depressed about life but never 1 who's depressed about skiing.
You gotta be in the game at least 9-10 years to even think about reaching the level of delusion of the fuckers who've been fulltime instructors as a career. 90% of them got in young had the time of their life and kept with it while everyone they were ever close to left the industry 40 years ago. You know how much pussy these dudes get? none man, mfers lonely and resent new skiers. They are nasty with the kids and the kid's attribute that to skiing in general.

I actually snitched on a mf like this cause he hit a kid. Thank fuck he's gone, lifty's had beef with him too.

For the record I'm aware the post is about making skiing more affordable, but I think making skiing more accessible plays a hand.

**This post was edited on Nov 14th 2022 at 12:38:12am

**This post was edited on Nov 14th 2022 at 12:38:52am
Nov 14 2022 12:35AM
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PsychicMigration
Posts: 2099 - Karma: 10,540
The super passes don’t help. Most people I know with one either ski 10 or 100 days little in between. I’d rather pay 800$ for a pass and get 20 runs a day then 350$ plus parking rates expensive lodge prices overcrowded trails and then only get 10 runs. Doesn’t make it as cost effective as they typically seem to be. Midweek changes the game for super passers since it’s typically less crowded. Many places have seen little expansion and the number of people has increased uncontrollably. 8pack is not the solution. I’m going to make an educated guess and say that more people means more injuries, injuries come from collisions and with less space that’s very much more likely to occur. As for the US forest service they’re basically a landlord for these places can’t see them doing anything. Ski areas seem to be going the same way as colleges are by adding tons of unnecessary feature and jacking the price to pay for investments and then make all they’re money on 1%. Housing is more of an issue then ski areas are now I think. Seems to have been a big boom since Covid with skiing and it’s noticeable impacted surfing a lot as well. More people everywhere outside.
Nov 14 2022 11:36AM
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swagfarms123
Posts: 2 - Karma: 26
My local got bought out by Alterra a few years ago and pass prices keep getting higher, jumped to like 1.5k this year. People were mad, but passes still sold out within a few weeks.

Mountain sports are historically rich activities and those who can afford it will continue to pay whatever is needed to continue their lifestyle. Buy used gear, hit locally owned mountains, and become friends with a lifty.
Nov 14 2022 1:48PM
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HaydenB
Posts: 1072 - Karma: 8,135
promote street skiing
Nov 14 2022 5:36PM
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SteezyYeeter
Posts: 3617 - Karma: -12,152
HaydenBpromote street skiing


that makes skiing more expensive. if everyone's on the streets, then the resorts will need to price up their tickets to make up for the loss.
Nov 14 2022 5:37PM
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