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Black Crows Atris always feels like I'm riding the tails

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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Hello Fellow Atris skiers.

I was stoked to grab a pair of Atris skis last season, but after 10-15 days on them in variable conditions, I keep feeling like I'm always wheelying back on the tails and that the tails feel really short. This can be fun when done intentionally, but it's usually not intentional. Being more of a big mtn skier who learned to ski from the OG Norwegians, I ski very centered or even pretty forward with my weight, so it's not a "don't lean back" thing. They're mounted at recommended if that helps, but I'm afraid to re-mount them more forward and loose the feeling the ski was designed for.

What am I missing here? I'm 5'2" (AKA 1.57m), the skis are 169cm, and are smack in the middle of the sizing of all my other skis, which range from 162cm-174cm.

Anyone else experience this with the Atris? Have any of you tried mounting forward of recommended?

**This thread was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 12:41:40pm
Oct 9 2022 12:41PM
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tdollo
Posts: 3770 - Karma: 18,533
are you using full tilts?
Oct 9 2022 12:57PM
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RIP_leos_shack
Posts: 710 - Karma: 3,200
I imagine the recommended mount is probably around -7, but for a playful ski like that I would go around -4. Definitely worth trying of you feel like you're standing on your tails.
Oct 9 2022 1:53PM
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Vish-shoe
Posts: 1949 - Karma: 14,477
ThaLoraxHello Fellow Atris skiers.

I was stoked to grab a pair of Atris skis last season, but after 10-15 days on them in variable conditions, I keep feeling like I'm always wheelying back on the tails and that the tails feel really short. This can be fun when done intentionally, but it's usually not intentional. Being more of a big mtn skier who learned to ski from the OG Norwegians, I ski very centered or even pretty forward with my weight, so it's not a "don't lean back" thing. They're mounted at recommended if that helps, but I'm afraid to re-mount them more forward and loose the feeling the ski was designed for.

What am I missing here? I'm 5'2" (AKA 1.57m), the skis are 169cm, and are smack in the middle of the sizing of all my other skis, which range from 162cm-174cm.

Anyone else experience this with the Atris? Have any of you tried mounting forward of recommended?

**This thread was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 12:41:40pm


A more foreword mount, as well as some stiffer boots would probably help you
Oct 9 2022 2:04PM
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hoodratz47
Posts: 12020 - Karma: 9,475
Where are your hands when you ski. Are you just inherently skiing backseat? Remember to squish the grape
Oct 9 2022 2:34PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,841
hoodratz47Remember to squish the grape


The hwat now
Oct 9 2022 2:38PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
JITYA more foreword mount, as well as some stiffer boots would probably help you

Contemplating the forward mount. That's why I asked first people's experiences here before I drill new holes in my nearly new skis. Def not a stiffer boot problem. I'm a boot fitter and former ski instructor.
hoodratz47Where are your hands when you ski. Are you just inherently skiing backseat? Remember to squish the grape

Did you even read my post? I said I ski centered or forward, so its not a backseat skiing issue. I've been skiing for over 30 years. I know how to ski....

**This post was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 2:52:21pm

**This post was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 2:52:41pm
Oct 9 2022 2:47PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
RIP_leos_shackI imagine the recommended mount is probably around -7, but for a playful ski like that I would go around -4. Definitely worth trying of you feel like you're standing on your tails.

Damn. Super close guess! The recommended for last year's ski (mine) is about -7.5cm from center. -7.9cm for this year. -4 would be a big change. I was thinking about doing -5cm but again, I wanted to check if anyone else has mounted these more forward, and their experience with it.
Oct 9 2022 2:51PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
This review says to mount it even further back for more "directional" riders like myself. Weird.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2020-2021-black-crows-atris
Oct 9 2022 2:58PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 10,914
ThaLoraxThis review says to mount it even further back for more "directional" riders like myself. Weird.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2020-2021-black-crows-atris


I doubt it, but if you were a pretty big dude for your size then maybe you’d be riding on the soft tails more? I’ve ridden a buddies atris (184) on recommended mount and nothing felt out of the ordinary.
Oct 9 2022 4:10PM
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GrapeHunter
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 8,635
bold of u to assume im a fellow Atris rider.... i only ride Line Special Blends size 178 very limited edition white
Oct 9 2022 5:10PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
powpatrolI doubt it, but if you were a pretty big dude for your size then maybe you’d be riding on the soft tails more? I’ve ridden a buddies atris (184) on recommended mount and nothing felt out of the ordinary.


Haha, nope. I'm 5'2", 115 pounds. I'm a featherweight.

I do throw my weight around a ton to counterbalance/play around/make shenanigans. Maybe it's that? I am used to riding directionally on full twin tips. But working in the industry for so long, I've skied almost everything out there (that's widely available). I think i have only really experienced this on the old Rossi Soul series and the Dynastar Chams, with their fat tips, narrow tail design... but the Atris ain't like that
Oct 9 2022 5:17PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
I thought everyone had a pair?
GrapeHunterbold of u to assume im a fellow Atris rider.... i only ride Line Special Blends size 178 very limited edition white
Oct 9 2022 5:18PM
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mobadis
Posts: 406 - Karma: -3,484
hoodratz47Where are your hands when you ski. Are you just inherently skiing backseat? Remember to squish the grape

I thought the grape was under your heel and you weren’t supposed to squish it
Oct 9 2022 5:24PM
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JAlps
Posts: 555 - Karma: 1,937
-4 back from true.
Oct 9 2022 5:25PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
I rode a pair for a whole season back when I worked at Squaw. felt like the tips and tails on these were extra squishy. Might be an older version of them, but I doubt they've done much to change it.

Only used them with demo bindings but even then, I shifted them forward and always rode them about 3 back of true.

Still never felt particularly confident on these.
Oct 9 2022 5:41PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
PacificRimJobI rode a pair for a whole season back when I worked at Squaw. felt like the tips and tails on these were extra squishy. Might be an older version of them, but I doubt they've done much to change it.

Only used them with demo bindings but even then, I shifted them forward and always rode them about 3 back of true.

Still never felt particularly confident on these.

Right. That's the thing. I don't feel confident on them like I do for many other skis. Even ones like the old Candide 2.0's, which are Noodles (but have a much longer tail at recommended). For my featherweight self, the Atris feels stiff underfoot, moderately stiff in the tail and smedium stiff tips.... which is usually a recipe for fun for me in a ski. The shape seems really similar to the old Line Prophets I had when we lived in NZ, just wider and with more rocker. On paper, i feel like I should love these skis 🤷‍♂️


Edit: The new(er) ones I have are probably stiffer than the ones you skied. They changed the construction a few years ago, I think.

**This post was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 5:45:52pm

**This post was edited on Oct 9th 2022 at 5:47:05pm
Oct 9 2022 5:44PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
JAlps-4 back from true.


Is that was you did?
Oct 9 2022 7:37PM
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hoodratz47
Posts: 12020 - Karma: 9,475
It's an old truck for little kids to get their shins into the front of the boots. It works great
T0AST.The hwat now
Oct 9 2022 10:48PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
hoodratz47It's an old truck for little kids to get their shins into the front of the boots. It works great


Ah, context... helps. We used to tell them to pretend to keep a $100 bill in the front or they'll lose it
Oct 9 2022 10:59PM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,032
This is a generalized point, but my experience is that most of the skis in this bracket (Prodigy 3.0, Atris, Reckoner et al) are nominally 'directional' but have loads of tail rocker and feel like shit when mounted at recommended. The recommended point seems to be put at around -8cm to reassure low-level dad skiers who are used to the Salomon x scream and just bought their first fat ski to match their shifts... and can't conceive of a forward mount because that's for twin tippers.

But with the way the rocker profiles are, they all ski waay better further forward (center to -4cm). I skied the Atris for one run at recommended on some demos and then pushed them as far forward as they would go (around -3 I guess given my boot size) and they felt like a different ski, and definitely in a good way.

**This post was edited on Oct 10th 2022 at 9:28:47am
Oct 10 2022 9:16AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 948 - Karma: 2,724
Your “out of balance and feeling like you’re in the backseat” makes me wonder if there was a boot or binding model change too when you got these skis? Too much forward lean in new boots especially combined with larger binding delta can cause that “fighting to get out of the backseat” feeling.
Have had binding delta issues myself that were noticeable as soon as I click and the skis always “felt off” as you’re describing.

Different binding delta can cause balance issues and will have an even greater effect on smaller sole length boots like you likely have. Even a low AFD could increase delta and wouldn’t feel solid and secure while skiing.

Are the Atris bindings/current boots different than what you’ve had on previous skis?
Oct 10 2022 6:08PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Thanks for the thought, but I have the same pair of boots for all my skis, and I use Tyrolia Attacks on all my alpine skis. I don't have this issue on the others
Greg_KYour “out of balance and feeling like you’re in the backseat” makes me wonder if there was a boot or binding model change too when you got these skis? Too much forward lean in new boots especially combined with larger binding delta can cause that “fighting to get out of the backseat” feeling.
Have had binding delta issues myself that were noticeable as soon as I click and the skis always “felt off” as you’re describing.

Different binding delta can cause balance issues and will have an even greater effect on smaller sole length boots like you likely have. Even a low AFD could increase delta and wouldn’t feel solid and secure while skiing.

Are the Atris bindings/current boots different than what you’ve had on previous skis?
Oct 10 2022 6:15PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 948 - Karma: 2,724
Forgot to ask if you’ve checked the bases to make sure they are flat. A base high ski (especially if it’s underfoot) gives the “skiing on marbles” type feeling where you’re constantly adjusting stance to try and get balanced.
Stone grind to flatten and it’s a different ski. Had this issue on a few skis over the years.
Oct 10 2022 6:17PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 948 - Karma: 2,724
The 2 screws above the AFD on your Attack2 are 1/3 to 1/2 covered similar like this? Very hit and miss if they adjusted properly up to this height. At least the Attack2 AFD are easy to spot if they are low.


Oct 10 2022 6:25PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4808 - Karma: 17,041
I don't own the Atris but noticed the same feeling when I demoed them. I liked the ski overall aside from the tails washing out and thought if I were to have bought a pair I'd have mounted them significantly forward of recommended to try to get some more strength out back.
Oct 10 2022 8:56PM
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dwt802
Posts: 3237 - Karma: 31,957
ThaLoraxIs that was you did?


My friend rode that, loved it, I tried the set up for a day too and it rode great.
Oct 10 2022 10:26PM
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GloryHoleGary
Posts: 178 - Karma: 1,758
I have a pair of the 190’s and I hate em. I have the opposite feeling you get though. When I’m pounding through variable snow it feels like the nose of the skis are folding on me and sending me too far forward over my tips. I’ve had them for almost 3 seasons now and I still don’t feel comfortable on them.
Oct 12 2022 6:15AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
So I finally remounted them between recommended and center... and they're soooo much more fun.

I think I moved 3cm forward of recommended? Since I'm on the 168's, the toe piece is butted right up against the end of the mounting plate. I imagine bigger sizes won't have an issue
Jan 14 2023 3:19PM
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muffMan.
Posts: 2768 - Karma: 26,055
I had some and the tips were crazy soft compared to the rest of the ski. Did mess with the mounts like you did and liked them a bit better, but once I got Jeff’s I sold them
Jan 15 2023 9:54PM
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