The Downfall of Big Brands

easy to start, hard to make a living

I’d rather give my money to a super sick person who supports skiing than corporate fuckheads who only give a shit about profit

I feel better giving my money to someone that is putting their heart and so into a brand then corporate robots

Great to support the small guys, but corporate ain't losing money to homies 500 pair sales

Abomber22Great to support the small guys, but corporate ain't losing money to homies 500 pair sales

true, but an entire industry sourcing outerwear from its own members can become a great way for retired/active skiers to make a living

switchlip2I’d rather give my money to a super sick person who supports skiing than corporate fuckheads who only give a shit about profit

At the end of the day some of these super sick people may just use the same factory in china as the corporate, so who's that money really go to?

switchlip2I’d rather give my money to a super sick person who supports skiing than corporate fuckheads who only give a shit about profit

preach it!

This isn't necessarily a new thing, small clothing/ski brands have existed for the past two decades, they come and go.

You’ve also got to think that we just had a huge boom period economically despite everyone blaming COVID. Yes, inflation has increased in response and we’re probably entering a recession soon but a lot of people had more disposable income the last few years to be able to buy niche brands.

I would trade every small pants/fleece hat company in skiing for a Nike product line.

Get back to work mr. Squidward

I think that small companies have the upper hand in skiing at the moment but once corporate brands finally understand that snowpants need to be built wider the tides might shift again. Idrk tho. I love supporting small brands but im also not hyped about paying $300 for snowpants that you can tell were just made by some kid in his basement.

Young_pattyI would trade every small pants/fleece hat company in skiing for a Nike product line.

Nike vision slapped, had a pair for a bit.

Young_pattyI would trade every small pants/fleece hat company in skiing for a Nike product line.

Will never happen because (((Nike))) looks at one thing; thier bottom line. They shutdown the snowboarding line during the end of the shaun white heyday so no way in hell they make a ski gear line whose primary consumers would be young white kids in year 2000+22.

BLandzI think that small companies have the upper hand in skiing at the moment but once corporate brands finally understand that snowpants need to be built wider the tides might shift again. Idrk tho. I love supporting small brands but im also not hyped about paying $300 for snowpants that you can tell were just made by some kid in his basement.

Im pre sure the amount of skiers on the mountain who actually wear baggy pants is not enough to make a difference to a big brand

There are a kabillion skiers in the world who don’t know or care about the baggy 1 of 1s made by small companies, and by the time any one of these companies becomes known by enough of those skiers, it’ll be a ‘big company’. So I don’t think there will be any problems

eheathThis isn't necessarily a new thing, small clothing/ski brands have existed for the past two decades, they come and go.

I just think the pure amount of these small time companies is something we haven’t seen before at least in my time

CharlzHubThere are a kabillion skiers in the world who don’t know or care about the baggy 1 of 1s made by small companies, and by the time any one of these companies becomes known by enough of those skiers, it’ll be a ‘big company’. So I don’t think there will be any problems

I will never consider a company making 1 of 1’s to be a big company. Once complete outsourcing is done then it’s possible to move into that category imo.

CharlzHubThere are a kabillion skiers in the world who don’t know or care about the baggy 1 of 1s made by small companies, and by the time any one of these companies becomes known by enough of those skiers, it’ll be a ‘big company’. So I don’t think there will be any problems

Harlaut apparel is still making bank though

The world of fabrics & related materials is really interesting. There is a TON of fabric tech out there and a lot of it is very good. That industry is fragmented and also has gotten to the point where the design and manufacture are two distinct businesses, you know specialization like everything else.

When you add in color and prints and what not you end up with a lot of small batches. That really gives an in to smaller companies because you can buy a reasonably sized bolt 100 yards of something vs. 100,000 yards and the price differences are somewhat negligible on a per yard basis.

The real effort is in making the clothing (sewing and cutting) and no matter how hard any big brand may try, for a larger brand that means eventually having to tackle that cost. Even super high end brands like Norona are manufactured in lower cost places and then quality concerns, shipping, etc come into the picture once you start going that route. What do you do for instance if 1000 pieces are just a bit off and now don't sell? The only way a big company can deal with that is higher retail and selectively choosing the fabric tech to keep costs down. You add a pocket on a custom piece of clothing, no big deal, you want to add a pocket to something they are going to make 10,000 of, it's a HUGE deal in incremental cost from design to dealing with getting the specs over to your mfg, checking out they do it right, etc, etc.

This allows smaller brands a way in because they can make the same or better product in smaller batches and they don't necessarily have to hit all the same margins a big company does.

That little wrinkle means a smaller company can use the same tech or better and be more responsive to market trends (i.e. style) and as much as anyone does NOT want to admit it, for clothing and cars what sells is style first.

The smaller companies will come an go. If you are sewing locally you are at the mercy of keeping you awesome people sewing. It's so labor intensive that your costs will always be at a certain level. You get a failed design or bad year and the interests of the owner change. You lose 3-4 highly qualified sewers and you might be 6mos plus behind trying to get a team built back up.

I think it's actually very cool to have that kind of dynamic. Both companies can exist. The more smaller companies there are the more you get a little bit of local heritage built into the products. It's small batch so not everyone ends up with the exact same piece and style.

To give some idea, from the last high tech jacket my friend made for me, the material cost was $100, the labor was 60ish hours. At $20/hr (and it's really more like $35-45 for a pro) that's $1200 in labor so it's a $1300 jacket. Of course it's a friend thing so it was a present and labor of love but that's kinda where it's at. Once you design a pattern and really go at it maybe that's 4-6hours per jacket, so now you are at $240ish and you can retail at $400ish and still be competitive with a big brand, until they slash everything at 50% at the end of the season that is.

Real shit I wear the nike pooh shiesty mask every time I ski, shit goes hard and it’s mad warm😂

Young_pattyI would trade every small pants/fleece hat company in skiing for a Nike product line.

NotEnoughSkiingThe world of fabrics & related materials is really interesting...

u couldve written something a bit shorter to flex ur expensive jacket bro

Huh. I'd have argued that the pendulum has been swinging away from small brands back toward big brands the last 10 years, but maybe I'm just older and don't have my ear to the ground.

Humans need clothes, humans like to buy clothes, there are a lot of humans, selling clothing is a lucrative business and theres room for all types of companies.

jl4wu couldve written something a bit shorter to flex ur expensive jacket bro

I think you totally missed my point entirely which is clothing isn't the runaway cash machine everyone thinks it is.

It's a ton of effort, either big or small can get blown out of the water by a whim, and the profits are not the treasure chest everyone thinks it is.

Conclusion: You are not being ripped off. Be glad someone is willing to do it and provide so many gear options at a lot of different price points.

NotEnoughSkiingI think you totally missed my point entirely which is clothing isn't the runaway cash machine everyone thinks it is.

It's a ton of effort, either big or small can get blown out of the water by a whim, and the profits are not the treasure chest everyone thinks it is.

Conclusion: You are not being ripped off. Be glad someone is willing to do it and provide so many gear options at a lot of different price points.

I was talking to my buddy who does commercial video work in nyc. He’s doin shoots for like Kate spade, the gap, under armour and all types of brands like that and other smaller boutique brands. He was telling me about people’s day rates, and what equipment costs, and how some people just making a living for renting out their camera equipment for other people to use in shoots.

I said to him, “damn, this is crazy money people are making! I gotta stop selling clothes and get into this”

then he said to me, “idk man, the companies that pay for all of this are selling clothes.”

Slightly related, slightly unrelated but when I was younger, I had a dream of having an outerwear company. I managed to arrange a sit down with the former president of Salomon North America through my college’s president. The guy spent the whole hour telling me why I shouldn’t get into that industry and why I should get into finance because “that’s where the money is”.

This industry has a lot of gatekeepers.

-DanI was talking to my buddy who does commercial video work in nyc. He’s doin shoots for like Kate spade, the gap, under armour and all types of brands like that and other smaller boutique brands. He was telling me about people’s day rates, and what equipment costs, and how some people just making a living for renting out their camera equipment for other people to use in shoots.

I said to him, “damn, this is crazy money people are making! I gotta stop selling clothes and get into this”

then he said to me, “idk man, the companies that pay for all of this are selling clothes.”

Truth and that's exactly my point for the big brands, if you are big, you don't have a kid with an iphone taking product photos.

There's a good living in being a reliable cog and not the machine designer.


So if you are 20-200K in just on getting the product marketed, it's a ton of pressure to just break even on that product. For a $500 product at $50k, that's 100 units. Is that a lot? idk I think it could be depending on what it is. That's just marketing let alone all their other costs. If one of those products totally flops it's a major problem, so they have to have a dozen or more products or lines and go with the shotgun approach.

If you are a small shop you don't have that issue as much because you'll use other marketing but instead producing 50+ units in different sizes is a huge undertaking where that's no big deal for the big boys. So the small brand costs are on the production side, the big brand cost is on the marketing side and just running a big organization and making sure everyone eats every night.

Being a service provider in those businesses is where you want to be. Owning the camera and renting it out is EXACTLY where you want to be in that business with way less risk. Being the brand owners or managers it's a totally different set of panic each and every day. You own the camera and it doesn't rent out, you rent it to someone else or sell it. Way less to unwind!

-DanI was talking to my buddy who does commercial video work in nyc. He’s doin shoots for like Kate spade, the gap, under armour and all types of brands like that and other smaller boutique brands. He was telling me about people’s day rates, and what equipment costs, and how some people just making a living for renting out their camera equipment for other people to use in shoots.

I said to him, “damn, this is crazy money people are making! I gotta stop selling clothes and get into this”

then he said to me, “idk man, the companies that pay for all of this are selling clothes.”