Possible law suit: REI set DIN's incorrectly, only signed off on front DIN's

mayslayOnce saw a tech at REI knock over the ski rack holding all of the skis waiting to get mounted

wasatch_ratAmerica is so litigious its insane. He knew how to check his DIN. He knew how to adjust his DIN. The tech gave him a chance to look at his own DIN. He chose not to do any of these things. REI may have fucked up but it's impossible to prove that, and you can't know that that caused the injury. Especially because the heel piece controls forward release, not twist release. You might get a tiny settlement out of it if you're lucky, but it won't be worth your time, and it contributes to a shitty situation that the ski industry has.

This instinct to sue every time something goes wrong is a real problem in skiing. It's why a lot of shops refuse to let you use their screwdrivers, you often need to pay to have your bindings checked just to slightly adjust the DIN, forward pressure or toe height. I probably spent just as much time dealing with liability issues than I did actually working on equipment once I started managing the shop I was at. It's so frustrating to have a customer fill out all their info, take off their boot, adjust the binding, test the binding (usually takes like 5-10 minutes) have them sign for the adjustment, then charge them (40$ at my shop), when all they wanted was to turn the DIN from 8 to 8.5.

One customer will chew you out for not letting them borrow a screw driver to adjust their own bindings, and the next one will insist that it's your fault that they popped out too early when their binding was set by the book. Sometimes people will lie about their physical information (height weight and age) and get salty about their bindings not doing what they wanted. You know how awkward it is to double check someone's weight when they claim to be 145lbs and they clearly weight 180lb+? Or their age when they claim to be 39, but are clearly over 50? The number of times I hear "well I don't want to pop out too easily, but if I crash then they have to. I don't trust the chart so where should I put it?" As if I'm some wizard that can magically know exactly where to set someone's binding just by looking at them. Then someone will bring in a binding that tests poorly, you tell them, and they're mad at you when you tell them that you can't continue to work on their broken binding. Then someone will bring in a touring boot on a binding that doesn't accommodate that sole, and get mad that you won't set up their binding "I've done it like this for years ok I'm not going to sue you!" But if they get hurt they absolutely will. There is no winning.

The point is, there are 3-4 adjustment screws on most alpine bindings. Thats it. If you know how you want your binding set, then its really not that hard to set it yourself, especially if you're an experienced skier. This instinct to have the shop do everything, then sue instead of taking responsibility for your own equipment; it drives up costs, wait times, and infringes on the potential "bro favors" that shops can provide. People are so quick to label shop techs as incompetent but they are completely unwilling to learn how to work on their own equipment. People would rather act like petulant victims, and it gets old. Not to mention, a first year shop tech routinely makes less than a fast food worker, yet they can be individually sued (along with the shop) if they set something wrong.

Legally, I get the whole shop obligation and negligence and blah blah blah. But it does get old spending so much time keeping the lawyers and insurance companies happy, instead of helping the customer.

wasatch_ratIt's so frustrating to have a customer fill out all their info, take off their boot, adjust the binding, test the binding (usually takes like 5-10 minutes) have them sign for the adjustment, then charge them (40$ at my shop), when all they wanted was to turn the DIN from 8 to 8.5.

People are so quick to label shop techs as incompetent but they are completely unwilling to learn how to work on their own equipment.

HypeBeastHoly rant lol. Two things: 1) you don't gotta charge $40 for a binding adjustment. You could charge $0.01 and still be fine. That's your shop's choice. 2) Did it ever cross your mind 99.9% of people don't have equipment to test the release values? That tool is expensive so yeah while setting dins and installing bindings is easy, it's much simpler and faster to have someone do it for you. The added safety is they do this all the time, follow standards, and should be testing release values.

wasatch_ratLol I know, 8 years worth of salt.
1. I agree 40$ is a lot, but the industry standard binding test machines are not cheap. And no we could not charge $0.01 to test a binding. Besides the labor time, the second we touch a binding we assume liability, why would we do that for free? My whole point is that if people weren't so litigious, then I would happily adjust people's din for no charge.
2. Literally all you need to adjust din is a screwdriver. Anyone can check a din and adjust it. OP wanted a din of 7, he had all the means to make that happen.

To me its like trying to sue a skateshop after getting speed wobbles when they put your trucks on. If you know you like tight trucks, then tighten them. If you know you want a din of 7, do it yourself.

Chunder_KhatI mean the dude said REI mounted the heels at 9 and the toes at 7 on both skis.

Graham0596And he signed off saying they were correct?

Chunder_KhatI can't tell what he did. He said they only showed him the toes or some shit. Sounds like a shit sandwich all around. But the bindings were adjusted by the shop incorrectly. This is a little different from wanting your skate trucks tighter, tho.

wasatch_ratRight because an individual moment of clumsiness means an entire corporation is incompetent. Seriously you've never dropped something or knocked something over at work?

crayolaguyHello community, I come with quite the slander on REI... Pre-season I had my bindings remounted for my new smaller boots and had requested my DIN's be set to 7 on my Tyroila Attack 12's. When I was grabbing my skis, I signed off that they had correctly been set to DIN's of 7, but I was only presented with the front DIN's, and didn't think to check the back ones too, as I figured they were competent to set them both to 7. Fast forward to 12 weeks ago, I tore my MCL skiing after my right ski caught an edge after landing a fat air. Big bummer on the season. Fast forward again to 3 days ago on Friday, I was finally going skiing again and wanted to lower my DIN on just my right bindings to protect that knee a little more. The front was correctly set to 7, however, the back of the bindings had a DIN set to 9! Both of them! I have not touched them since the shop originally set them this way, so I am currently outraged, I set both the back DIN's to 7. Now I am wondering what I should do, there is a high likelihood that REI's incompetence is the reason I tore my MCL or at least contributed to it. Yes, I signed off on their waiver after checking the front DIN's but not the back DIN's.

What should I do here? Try and get some under-the-table compensation? Is it worth a try? Threaten a lawsuit? Has anyone had any similar experiences?

I have attached an image of the DIN's before I set them correctly myself. It is easy to confuse the 7 and the 9 on the back binding as you can see.

mayslayHaven't knocked over something that belongs to a customer at work. Also didn't say the entire corporation is incompetent. But I haven't seen that happen at other shops.

LippamaniWhy is this thread still going?

baz25216Just to wind you up :-)

wasatch_ratyou're a moron if you think knocking over a ski is a big deal, or in any way reflects the professionalism and competence of an employee. Lol you would be horrified to see how skis get handled on their way to being tuned.
spends all day hitting rails, getting core shots, and abusing skis, but gets upset because "rEi kNoCKed OveR my sKiS."

DeebieSkeebiesThis and to shit on people going to REI.

baz25216What is REI???

skiermanWHAT IS GOOGLE!?

baz25216I hear ya.... its a shop online... is it owned by another large US chain, or do they get bad rep cause they're online only? Sorry my question, slightly tongue in cheek though it was, was more around who are they, what do they do and why you lot are bashing them? I'm not in the US and know nothing about the brand...

skiermanJust fuck off already.

baz25216I'm sorry, are you offended by simple questions squire?

skiermanI think this discussion will be more productive over a tall glass of bleach.

skiermanI think this discussion will be more productive over a tall glass of bleach.

skiermanJust fuck off already.

SchoessYou first please

skiermanFOOOTAGE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DUURRRRRRRRRRRRRR

SchoessYeah man I can switch triple 14 both ways

skiermanHomie had to quit hitting jumps before the age of 30 because the knees would blow out under his immense weight. LOL lay off the sugars, fat fuck.

SchoessLol ur not very original

crayolaguyHello community, I come with quite the slander on REI... Pre-season I had my bindings remounted for my new smaller boots and had requested my DIN's be set to 7 on my Tyroila Attack 12's. When I was grabbing my skis, I signed off that they had correctly been set to DIN's of 7, but I was only presented with the front DIN's, and didn't think to check the back ones too, as I figured they were competent to set them both to 7. Fast forward to 12 weeks ago, I tore my MCL skiing after my right ski caught an edge after landing a fat air. Big bummer on the season. Fast forward again to 3 days ago on Friday, I was finally going skiing again and wanted to lower my DIN on just my right bindings to protect that knee a little more. The front was correctly set to 7, however, the back of the bindings had a DIN set to 9! Both of them! I have not touched them since the shop originally set them this way, so I am currently outraged, I set both the back DIN's to 7. Now I am wondering what I should do, there is a high likelihood that REI's incompetence is the reason I tore my MCL or at least contributed to it. Yes, I signed off on their waiver after checking the front DIN's but not the back DIN's.

What should I do here? Try and get some under-the-table compensation? Is it worth a try? Threaten a lawsuit? Has anyone had any similar experiences?

I have attached an image of the DIN's before I set them correctly myself. It is easy to confuse the 7 and the 9 on the back binding as you can see.

arsonnoodleOne thing to keep in mind is that the spring tension sometimes will vary between heel and toe pieces. Shops are allowed to move the din up or down 2 to produce the same result on the din testing machine. What might have happened is that the din was testing low when it was set at 7, (meaning that it was set a 7 but when tested, the springs released as if they were at 5) so they moved it up to 9 to get the same release value as the toes. Not saying that REI didn't fuck up, but that could be why they were both set at 9.