Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!
NeonGreenSharpieKind of a slippery slope argument imo. People aren't going to change sex for medals and I don't think that creating a trans division will fix the problem.
jps2.0its honestly just not a issue
name a single male skier thats switched sides..
it's just a common far right outrage type thing
Professor-ModeloThinking dudes shouldn’t be able to fuck chicks up in sports isn’t a “far right outrage thing”, you oaf
NeonGreenSharpieKind of a slippery slope argument imo. People aren't going to change sex for medals and I don't think that creating a trans division will fix the problem.
ToddlerBodyBagIts just bull shit. Everybody knows its bull shit but nobody wants to be labeled as trans phobic.
BigPurpleSkiSuitWhy wouldn't it fix the problem?
Icant_kfedEh, if people do it for other sports why would skiing be an exception?
NeonGreenSharpieWhich sports?
dshilandTrack and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
NeonGreenSharpieYes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
jps2.0its honestly just not a issue
name a single male skier thats switched sides..
it's just a common far right outrage type thing
NeonGreenSharpieYes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
NeonGreenSharpieYes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
NeonGreenSharpieWhich sports?
Icant_kfedIt’s still completely unfair for the actual women who trained just to get absolutely blown out by someone with a dick
LonelyA meh take in the Ahmet sea of stupidity.
Probably the best thing for all parties involved would be to have a separate league, and/or much more invasive testing and metrics to consider who can compete in what league.
Unfortunately, that is an idealistic solution, because as a minority group trans individuals take up an incredibly small part of the population. So in high schools, colleges, and professional sports, there is no incentive to invest in a separate league for the people with the money.
So now you run into issues where teens or older people who really do feel like they are stuck in the wrong body just are not allowed to compete in sports unless you go to a school or college that has a separate league...which is approximately none of them.
The interesting thing about this is that I never see people complain about women who transition to men competing, just men transitioning to women.
This could become a problem in the future, but I don't think it is one right now. You can bring up a handful of examples but when you consider all of the high-level high school, college, or even professional games or competitions that happen every year....I'd imagine that a male-to-female transperson winning them due to an unfair advantage is probably much much less than 1%.
Plenty of more common unfair shit happening. People messing around/lying about their age, private high schools having the ability to recruit whereas public schools do not, certain schools having way more funding than others, school districts messing around with their borders so they can stay in a more desirable division, 17 year running backs on gear etc. etc.
I'd wager that these things are much more common and have a much more detrimental effect on sports in the aggregate.
Icant_kfedYou bring up a lot of good points but females becoming men don’t have the biological advantages that someone who has been a man his whole life has been.
LonelyYeah, I understand that, just pointing out that banning all transpeople from competition because men->women have a big advantage would unfairly hurt women who have transitioned to men that don't have the same advantage.
Female to male get punished for the actions of male to female
BorchmoreThis just seems like an attempt to put the trans athlete debate in a skiing context, when it is really a non-issue. I do not know a single trans freestyle skier. I think we should always be working towards greater inclusivity in skiing, so fear mongering about a hypothetical problem does more harm than good IMO. Unless trans women suddenly start dominating the podium, there's no real reason to bring this up
dshilandTrack and field ncaa d2 had a man win events he entered as a women. NCAA swimming a man Lea Thomas (I think) just beat women and set an ncaa womens record I think despite being a biological man. CT HS track and field dealt with it a few years ago and TX HS wresleting I think. Its definitely becoming way more common unfortunately.
Way*MoIn World Cup DH mountain biking there have been several trans-women athletes. None have won a single event. The top women routinely beat them by large margins.
skiermanYou mean Kate Weatherly who swept the NZ DH national series and won national champs her first year competing against women? The next season she placed 2nd at the Crankworx Rotorua DH and nothing but top 10 finishes, two of which were podiums in her first year racing World Cup Elite DH?
Yeah bro, that like happens all the time in DH, completely normal.
Way*MoNZ nationals is not WC racing. A fourth or fifth place while technically a podium is not winning. She didn’t do anything last years when the top dogs were back.
Gwin had a pretty meteoric rise, or are we purposely ignoring that?
What about Deprala almost winning the overall his first season in elites even with missing finals in a race.
Nice cherry picking bruh
skiermanGwin and Deprala didn't go from finishing last to snagging podiums against the world's fastest after changing their genders.
You're a fucking idiot.
AndrewGravesSVLike some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.
I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
AndrewGravesSVLike some others have pointed out, its not a huge issue except for right wingers getting triggered and blowing shit out of proportion because they found a new easy marginalized group to attack. The gut reaction is that men competing against women isn't fair which immediately frames the whole discussion as these aren't "real" women which is transphobic by nature. A brief google shows that up to a year after hormone treatment that trans women retain some competitive advantage showing a bit of validity to the argument. However, its hard to quantify without many studies and there are clearly diminishing returns.
I think what is missing from this whole conversation in general is how your genetics give athletes their biggest competitive advantages anyway. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and a freak wingspan which give him a huge advantage but doesn't mean we have to put him into another category. Likewise, some women have naturally higher testosterone than others but we don't even know if testosterone is the main indicator of athletic prowess. Realistically, to be an elite athlete relies on freakish genetics, hard work and mentality, and it helps a ton to have some amount of privilege to be able to singularly on your sport (especially with niche ones).
I don't see it as a huge issue at the top level considering how few trans people there are, and so why make it a huge issue across the board? Sports can be the best impact for someone's mental health and deciding a group of people with the highest suicide rates can't do them because it would be "unfair" seems cruel to me.
Professor-ModeloWe ABSOLUTELY do know that testosterone levels and athletic abilities directly correlate with one another.
NeonGreenSharpieYes I know it is problematic, but no one's changing sex to win.
Icant_kfedSaying your a girl doesn’t take away your chromosomes, testosterone, bone structure, fundamentally men and women are different, apples to oranges
GloryHoleGaryTrans = Mental Illness
AndrewGravesSVNot talking about surgeries or any transition process but I think if you're willing to present yourself as a woman to society then you should be considered one. Women have faced a lot more obstacles in our society than men, a lot of which still exist today. If you don't think thats true then you should talk to more women and listen. If you want society to treat you as a woman then you should at least be able to take the title too.
Sick take dude lay off the jordan peterson
GloryHoleGaryI honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.
you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
GloryHoleGaryI honestly can’t believe this is even a debate. The fact that there are people out there like yourself who literally believe the words that just came out of your mouth is absolute lunacy.
you got dick and balls you’re a dude.
you got a pussy you’re a chick.
end of story.
cannot believe this has to be explained and argued. It’s absolutely asinine.
yungspliffywow theres actually a negative ratio on this, imma take a break from Newschoolers. too many public HS kids that hold an opinion which has been fed to them. Its not their fault though, these topics are for whatever reason being shoved down their throat 24/7. my mom is a public high school teacher and is literally required to speak on all of this BS as if any of it is productive. ironic how sexuality and gender definitions have become the biggest hot button issue in a pussy internet era where no one is even having sex. pose a logical argument that might hurt some people's feelings? you are now a something "-phobe". Fucking sad where this country is at
skiermanIts sad you need to "take a break" from a forum because of some peoples' opinions.
Run off to your safe space, fucking snowflake.
NeonGreenSharpieKind of a slippery slope argument imo. People aren't going to change sex for medals and I don't think that creating a trans division will fix the problem.
