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Sure, the "M" wanted their cut (union dues), but at least they fought for the working man in exchange.
The "Cz" came down on my folk's third generation vegetable farm. It was nuts.
Much later, while I was working for one of the largest mushroom producers that had a "Cz" union, I stood on the strike line with them. I was one step away from a management spot, the boss told me to not cross the line.
He told me I could never be a manager without the respect of the workers. He was right.
That's why I say "Viva La Huelga" !
The working man deserves a "living" wage.
After WW2 was a time when the average man could have an average job, and the wife (other) could stay home for the health of the children, both mental, and physical.
Those were the days!
SuspiciousFishThe Patroller Union's need to take some lessons from these guys. If you going to play hard ball you gotta learn from the OGs:
DominatorJacquesSure, the "M" wanted their cut (union dues), but at least they fought for the working man in exchange.
The "Cz" came down on my folk's third generation vegetable farm. It was nuts.
Much later, while I was working for one of the largest mushroom producers that had a "Cz" union, I stood on the strike line with them. I was one step away from a management spot, the boss told me to not cross the line.
He told me I could never be a manager without the respect of the workers. He was right.
That's why I say "Viva La Huelga" !
The working man deserves a "living" wage.
After WW2 was a time when the average man could have an average job, and the wife (other) could stay home for the health of the children, both mental, and physical.
Those were the days!
Holy fuck, since when did NS become the hospice of forums?
VR just announced a $2 an hour bonus if you make it through the season (work 600 hours between jan 1 and april 15 and get a bonus check of $1200 in may) I bet the unions are exempt from that though.
skiermanAs we all know liberals love far-right religious extremists who believe women have no rights and violence is the only answer because democracy doesn't work....
Oh wait....
and we also know liberals love far-left extremists who believe black people have no rights and violence is the only answer because democracy doesn't work...
skiermanWait, they can cover cross country flights and $600 per diem but they cannot afford a $17 an hour living wage?
That makes as much sense as Republicans saying they don't have money for single payer healthcare but they have the money to fund two illegal wars for over a decade and $3 trillion to sink into the stock market.
the left is big on funding wars as well dude. look at what biden has done lol
LonelyWhat's so bad about unions? I get that there are some that are fear mongers/useless or just generally bad...but I still feel like it's good to have some sort of push back against the bloated, ineffective, and often shitty middle/upper management.
You can say that the market decides...but in the case of huge megacorps that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case when those businesses more or less become the market.
I also have a hard time looking at people trying to make a living wage for relatively skilled work vs corporations making millions in profit with shitty business practices and choosing to back the megacorp in that scenario. No matter how shitty unions are.
My friend worked for ups, they have a union and were just scalping his paycheck. completely ridiculous
Im not trying to do the whole "hurr durr look at the libtards" thing but those are just my 2 cents. ive never worked at a place with a union tbh
I also want to say fuck vail, they have ruined breck and keystone, it is so so bad (there a tons of threads and insta posts about this already this season)
the covid stuff is killer, i know people hate me for saying it but it is overplayed. just like hospitals, vail hurts themselves by creating this worker shortage with their policies. we are experiencing mass psychosis. calm down and realize covid isnt that bad but this big business is a real and tangible thing that actually ruins your day, every day.
Word to the PC patrollers--may they find success and support.
Unions don't seem to be what they once were, but it's never been a perfect situation. Yes, they take a share of your check, in return for making sure there's more in your check to begin with. And politics come with that.
It goes without saying that unions are one worker defense against the capitalistic overreach in the chase of the almighty dollar, and anyone who works in mountain operations understands how things have tipped there.
We can't overlook the significant fact that development and ever-increasing prices for everything from groceries to places to live has been fueled by many of the resorts themselves. Doesn't seem like the people working for them, at least in the rank and file, were considered in the long run game of where this all might go. So, the folks at the top are left with choices: they either make up for it, lose their people, or have to work with their people taking their own interest in hand via unions.
skiermanHoly fuck, since when did NS become the hospice of forums?
Ha ha! I'm not yet qualified for hospice care. Maybe someday, though, but I'd rather go quickly as not to need them.
They helped me a lot with my mother as she suffered a long, agonizing death.
LiteratureWord to the PC patrollers--may they find success and support.
Unions don't seem to be what they once were, but it's never been a perfect situation. Yes, they take a share of your check, in return for making sure there's more in your check to begin with. And politics come with that.
It goes without saying that unions are one worker defense against the capitalistic overreach in the chase of the almighty dollar, and anyone who works in mountain operations understands how things have tipped there.
We can't overlook the significant fact that development and ever-increasing prices for everything from groceries to places to live has been fueled by many of the resorts themselves. Doesn't seem like the people working for them, at least in the rank and file, were considered in the long run game of where this all might go. So, the folks at the top are left with choices: they either make up for it, lose their people, or have to work with their people taking their own interest in hand via unions.
I am a free market guy and Unions are actually an important part of true Capitalism. You usually have a balance of available skilled labor and demand for that labor and where those lines meet is the market price for labor aka wages. However, if the demand for labor loses competition due to monopoly then it is a reasonable and inevitable balance for the supply of labor to collectivize through unions. Granted like any system there is politics and corruption but on a purely conceptual level it makes sense.
RIP_leos_shackYou really wanna be holding the bag while they're losing 2M+ a day in revenue, and have to refund thousands of customers while still paying employees?
Yes, better than paying 15% in taxes on shares I've had for years.
They'll strike for a day, the stock will sell off 5%, they'll come to a deal, the stock will rebound and everyone will forget that it happened in a week.
Look at the chart for $DE, same exact shit happens every labor dispute.
Park city is flat anyway, it's not Jackson hole. They'll close the upper mountain.
NotaskibumNah. They'll strike for a couple of days then settle it's nbd.
Not to burst your bubble but that is what os said before every strike. Kellogs was out like 6 weeks or something. The PC union is allegedly very well supported so they may be able to stick it out awhile should they choose to do so.
r00kieNot to burst your bubble but that is what os said before every strike. Kellogs was out like 6 weeks or something. The PC union is allegedly very well supported so they may be able to stick it out awhile should they choose to do so.
Sorry that wasn't clear. The they in this case settling was Vail.
The patrol wants 17, Vail wants 15. We all knows where this ends... 16 something
Its worth noting I think that a walk out and strike is going to have a huge impact because local ski clubs, adaptive sport teams, other organizations rely on the resort and its patrol staff to conduct operations and safely get kids/beginners/athletes skiing and lots of people are in support of the PCSPA. People are not happy to say the least around here.
**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 6:52:31pm
DeebieSkeebiesIts worth noting I think that a walk out and strike is going to have a huge impact because local ski clubs, adaptive sport teams, other organizations rely on the resort and its patrol staff to conduct operations and safely get kids/beginners/athletes skiing and lots of people are in support of the PCSPA. People are not happy to say the least around here.
**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 6:52:31pm
This is why I'm hesitant to throw my (meaningless) full fledged support to a strike. If the union involved all the other workers dependant on the mountain being open and not just ski patrol I probably wouldn't feel so iffy. This is hurt folks working for tips in bars/restuarants, rental shops, ski school, everyone you mentioned etc.
r00kieThis is why I'm hesitant to throw my (meaningless) full fledged support to a strike. If the union involved all the other workers dependant on the mountain being open and not just ski patrol I probably wouldn't feel so iffy. This is hurt folks working for tips in bars/restuarants, rental shops, ski school, everyone you mentioned etc.
It has a big community-backing aspect to it, lot's of people do care about this issue besides patrollers because above all else, yeah they need that mountain running and lots of people rely on it to pay bills. Sundance got cancelled this year again for the 2nd straight year which is another local economy hit, so if skier numbers take a hit then people will not forget about this.
DeebieSkeebiesIt has a big community-backing aspect to it, lot's of people do care about this issue besides patrollers because above all else, yeah they need that mountain running and lots of people rely on it to pay bills. Sundance got cancelled this year again for the 2nd straight year which is another local economy hit, so if skier numbers take a hit then people will not forget about this.
I would never blame the patrollers for asking to get paid for their work, I blame Vail for not paying them in the first place leading to said untenable conditions.
DeebieSkeebiesIt has a big community-backing aspect to it, lot's of people do care about this issue besides patrollers because above all else, yeah they need that mountain running and lots of people rely on it to pay bills. Sundance got cancelled this year again for the 2nd straight year which is another local economy hit, so if skier numbers take a hit then people will not forget about this.
Why would anything change unless something like this happened and the hill had to shut down a day where there is full coverage?
Vail is a real estate company. Ski town real estate has doubled/tripled in the last year or two they could eat increased operating costs easier than almost any other business.
TOAST.Do starting patrolers make the same as starting for lifty/cashier/etc?
Right now, they make less (starting at 13 something) but only because they are unionized and have separate contracts than everyone else. Vail raised the minimum to 15 company wide last year.
r00kieThis is why I'm hesitant to throw my (meaningless) full fledged support to a strike. If the union involved all the other workers dependant on the mountain being open and not just ski patrol I probably wouldn't feel so iffy. This is hurt folks working for tips in bars/restuarants, rental shops, ski school, everyone you mentioned etc.
that is what a strike is meant to convey. almost all of the capital generated in ski towns relies on ski patrollers to make it safe to travel and ski there. if everything shuts down when the patrollers stop patrolling, that means they should be paid more.
PeppermillRenoWhy would anything change unless something like this happened and the hill had to shut down a day where there is full coverage?
Vail is a real estate company. Ski town real estate has doubled/tripled in the last year or two they could eat increased operating costs easier than almost any other business.
Be my guest if you want to drop money on ski trips out west only to ski groomers because everything is closed. Also worthy noting that their is a lifty shortage and some parts of the mountain will not open until thats resolved which that probably wont, so expect other VR employees to quit too. Who wants to own real estate on a mountain you can't ski lol. Thats good business for their Alterra neighbor next door then.
**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 8:43:00pm
DeebieSkeebiesBe my guest if you want to drop money on ski trips out west only to ski groomers because everything is closed. Also worthy noting that their is a lifty shortage and some parts of the mountain will not open until thats resolved which that probably wont, so expect other VR employees to quit too. Who wants to own real estate on a mountain you can't ski lol. Thats good business for their Alterra neighbor next door then.
**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 8:43:00pm
Yeah.
I think these are problems you can't really solve with a couple extra bucks an hour though. They are going to have to go a little further and offer people nice public housing and some other perks. Who knows maybe they get rid of lifties if they are detachable chairs you can have someone watching a camera of all the lifts and stop them when a kid falls right? Maybe get robots?
My mountain isn't running their tram on Fridays anymore its now Sat/Sunday due to not enough lifties. I genuinely dislike skiing there when its not running and you'd have to take 3 chairs instead. People are going to buy passes based on who they trust to have enough staff.
There will be lots of people posting #fuckvail who are going to be renewing next year in hopes that everyone drops the epic and they have hills to themselves though.
I think these are problems you can't really solve with a couple extra bucks an hour though. They are going to have to go a little further and offer people nice public housing and some other perks. Who knows maybe they get rid of lifties if they are detachable chairs you can have someone watching a camera of all the lifts and stop them when a kid falls right? Maybe get robots?
My mountain isn't running their tram on Fridays anymore its now Sat/Sunday due to not enough lifties. I genuinely dislike skiing there when its not running and you'd have to take 3 chairs instead. People are going to buy passes based on who they trust to have enough staff.
There will be lots of people posting #fuckvail who are going to be renewing next year in hopes that everyone drops the epic and they have hills to themselves though.
skiermanWait, they can cover cross country flights and $600 per diem but they cannot afford a $17 an hour living wage?
That makes as much sense as Republicans saying they don't have money for single payer healthcare but they have the money to fund two illegal wars for over a decade and $3 trillion to sink into the stock market.
We didn't have the money for those things either. That's the point dumb shit.
Of course Vail could raise wages, but people keep taking the job because you get to ski at work and live in the mountains. The wages will go up inevitably when people stop doing that because everything cost way more now and it's getting worse.
Dustin.We didn't have the money for those things either. That's the point dumb shit.
Of course Vail could raise wages, but people keep taking the job because you get to ski at work and live in the mountains. The wages will go up inevitably when people stop doing that because everything cost way more now and it's getting worse.
Yeah I'm sure the inflation has nothing to do with the ever increasing record profits of corporations who claim they must raise prices to offset inflation and increased wages. Its almost like they're raising the costs of their goods using inflation as an excuse!
COROPRATIONS LYING TO THE PUBLIC FOR THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS??? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
Fuck off, you corporate boot licking piece of shit.
skiermanYeah I'm sure the inflation has nothing to do with the ever increasing record profits of corporations who claim they must raise prices to offset inflation and increased wages. Its almost like they're raising the costs of their goods using inflation as an excuse!
COROPRATIONS LYING TO THE PUBLIC FOR THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS??? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
Fuck off, you corporate boot licking piece of shit.
I know your god CNN told you that, but what if the government had ACTUALLY printed an additional $6 trillion in 2 years and sent it off to people who largely did not need it. It’s not an opinion, that happened and it was ridiculous. The limit for stimulus checks was $150,000 for joint tax filers, Jesus Christ. I know that you literally copy and paste the shit you butt chug from the news but I live and work in the real world outside of your sheltered mountain paradise. Maybe you are okay with a barely functioning brain and never questioning what you see on TV, but I still thought I might point that out.
Any more Joe Biden direct quotes you want to share with us? Any sources and real research you want to post about the legality of war? I don’t see you slinging paychecks, but you sure seem to know all about it.
Ignorance is bliss, especially when you’re Skierman and you can hide behind volume and anger instead of knowledge on the internet. But ya, it’s because I just LOVE Vail. I bet you have an Epic pass too, hypocritical asshole.
Dustin.I know your god CNN told you that, but what if the government had ACTUALLY printed an additional $6 trillion in 2 years and sent it off to people who largely did not need it. It’s not an opinion, that happened and it was ridiculous. The limit for stimulus checks was $150,000 for joint tax filers, Jesus Christ. I know that you literally copy and paste the shit you butt chug from the news but I live and work in the real world outside of your sheltered mountain paradise. Maybe you are okay with a barely functioning brain and never questioning what you see on TV, but I still thought I might point that out.
Any more Joe Biden direct quotes you want to share with us? Any sources and real research you want to post about the legality of war? I don’t see you slinging paychecks, but you sure seem to know all about it.
Ignorance is bliss, especially when you’re Skierman and you can hide behind volume and anger instead of knowledge on the internet. But ya, it’s because I just LOVE Vail. I bet you have an Epic pass too, hypocritical asshole.
I don't have an Epic pass, watch CNN or listen to the ghost formally known as Biden. I'm relying on the stats of corporations ever increasing record profits which have not been affected by rising costs. If the rise in costs and labor was affecting prices, you wouldn't see an exponential growth of profits, it would remain relatively flat during this time.
Thanks for confirming you're another stooge that's spoon-fed his opinions by corporate sponsored right-wing garbage.
AndrewGravesSVlmao imagine anyone ever thinking this is a hot take
Corporations are the public. The vast majority of business is not Apple or CNN making billions of dollars a year. The idea that its isolated to that is unimaginably ignorant.
It is sad to know that Vail came to everyone’s house and forced them to work for $17 an hour when they could get a job in like 2 hours working for Belay or something online at their house for $20/hr.
skiermanI don't have an Epic pass, watch CNN or listen to the ghost formally known as Biden. I'm relying on the stats of corporations ever increasing record profits which have not been affected by rising costs. If the rise in costs and labor was affecting prices, you wouldn't see an exponential growth of profits, it would remain relatively flat during this time.
Thanks for confirming you're another stooge that's spoon-fed his opinions by corporate sponsored right-wing garbage.
Of course you did, the White House is THE source for that line. The POTUS is THE person who said it. You got it from the fucking White House. That doesn’t make you some untouchable purveyor of logical fallacies as facts any more than it somehow makes me a Republican voter. You can’t go through life just saying everything that slams into your unfiltered prefrontal cortex without someone eventually noticing you are an uneducated, full of shit douche. The library is free, I pay for it even though you don’t. Go read a book, it may surprise you.
Your point about profits only makes sense in a world where no one responds to other facets of the economy at all. Santa Cruz bikes raised their prices something like 8% just to cover shipping. Are they greedy corporate assholes or just dudes making bikes? Should they fire some employees or work for free? Of course the price rises. It costs them more to make the bike, it costs them more to ship the bike, and basically everyone in the US was handed $5k in a matter of months for existing. The value of every one of those dollars is 7% lower than last year. The price goes up. It only has since the times of Rome though, it’s probably because of Microsoft.
Dustin.Corporations are the public. The vast majority of business is not Apple or CNN making billions of dollars a year. The idea that its isolated to that is unimaginably ignorant.
It is sad to know that Vail came to everyone’s house and forced them to work for $17 an hour when they could get a job in like 2 hours working for Belay or something online at their house for $20/hr.
Live in the real world, it’s all around you.
bro youre fucking hilarious lmao
Corporations are literally not the public and most often directly go against what the public wants in favor of profit. That's why they spend billions of dollars lobbying. This is true for both Democrats and Republicans before you on a tangent railing against cnn and biden or whatever.
There are countless examples of corporations fucking normal people for greed from oil corporations ignoring climate warnings for decades to airlines spending 90% of their money on stock buybacks and then being bailed out by taxpayers. Unions had to fight tooth and nail for a 40 hour workweek and it was a struggle to get child labor laws passed.
Maybe in the "real world" you have to lick boots so much you get high from the shoe polish and end up with stockholm syndrome.
Dustin.Corporations are the public. The vast majority of business is not Apple or CNN making billions of dollars a year. The idea that its isolated to that is unimaginably ignorant.
It is sad to know that Vail came to everyone’s house and forced them to work for $17 an hour when they could get a job in like 2 hours working for Belay or something online at their house for $20/hr.
Live in the real world, it’s all around you.
Shut the fuck up. The company basically relies on human trafficking to operate (J1s) and then when their revenue doubles their workforce somehow halves.
Manipulating people's desire to ride those hills into working for slave wages isn't exactly ethical business. They own all the land around their mountains and have had plenty of time to provide satisfactory employee housing and all that and never gave a fuck to do so. The one time I signed up for the Experience of a Lifetime I was expected to pay for my own hotel room in Gunnison CO to do what should have been a volunteer bootpack program because I just wanted a free pass. Fuck them.
The company is so evil that anything bad for Vail Corp is good for the hills and communities themselves and skiing. Have you rode any of the smaller hills they have purchased and put no money into and seen how much worse they are? (PC/Whistler/Stowe etc someone else had already invested a fortune into before them they aren't going to go in with a wrecking ball and take shit out but it wasn't them at any of these places bringing in upgrades.)
Fuck Eheath too for being too pussy to post in this thread. Its a great sign that this is the first Vail related thread he hasn't posted in immediately to defend them.
PeppermillRenoShut the fuck up. The company basically relies on human trafficking to operate (J1s) and then when their revenue doubles their workforce somehow halves.
Manipulating people's desire to ride those hills into working for slave wages isn't exactly ethical business. They own all the land around their mountains and have had plenty of time to provide satisfactory employee housing and all that and never gave a fuck to do so. The one time I signed up for the Experience of a Lifetime I was expected to pay for my own hotel room in Gunnison CO to do what should have been a volunteer bootpack program because I just wanted a free pass. Fuck them.
The company is so evil that anything bad for Vail Corp is good for the hills and communities themselves and skiing. Have you rode any of the smaller hills they have purchased and put no money into and seen how much worse they are? (PC/Whistler/Stowe etc someone else had already invested a fortune into before them they aren't going to go in with a wrecking ball and take shit out but it wasn't them at any of these places bringing in upgrades.)
Fuck Eheath too for being too pussy to post in this thread. Its a great sign that this is the first Vail related thread he hasn't posted in immediately to defend them.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the "if they can find people to work for whatever dollars thats on them" argument in general. Kind of a shitty start to try and make a point from.
Then the fact that clearly they can't find enough people in general and half the people working there are literally imported from other countries on the j1 visa. People who this is still better than what they make back home and want to hang in America, or people that don't care about the job and just want to hang in America.
All the "the market dictates" people are fucked on a lot of things but they're also impressively wrong.
Clearly the market and every other sign shows that things are fucked. I'm not even against the free market. Just that people come off as incredibly douchey when they use it to justify companies fuckery like this situation.
