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September, 2024

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Is the company Faction going full conglomerate-mode?

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Eightsails
Posts: 150 - Karma: 1,621
Feels like faction is going the way of the soulless megacorp hellbent on making as much money as possible at the expense of heart, passion, etc. Obviously this is the way of all successful businesses, and congrats to them for making money in a difficult industry, but it definitely makes it harder to support them and I cant help but feel a icky thinking about the brand.

Stacking a huge team of legit athletes, putting them all on sticks with a topsheet from their 'do-it-all' line of skis even if the ski specs are totally different. (Specially for comps) - See alex hall pro-model for more recent offence.

Topsheet graphics are bland, rarely change more than a little year to year, and just looking at anything else on the Parade studio website they could have made some really cool looking art / designs. (Personal opinion about last few sets of prodigies and all the Candides except a couple colourways.)

Teaming up with brands like Prada and selling midline skis like the prodigy 2.0 for 4K USD.

I feel like their next step would be like a collab with Vail to only rent out only prodigies as rentals at all their hills.

At least Volkl actually puts their athletes on the same skis they sell to the consumer. (and collabs with them to make the ski)

/end rant
Jan 7 2022 1:49PM
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KilaTsunami
Posts: 2870 - Karma: 27,173
Their topsheets kinda remind me of those generic iPhone backgrounds nobody ever picks
Jan 7 2022 2:25PM
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tdollo
Posts: 3753 - Karma: 18,220
Not gonna lie the Prada's look pretty sick

https://www.prada.com/ww/en/men/prada_linea_rossa/prada_linea_rossa_fw21/products.Faction_x_Prada_Linea_Rossa_Prodigy_3_0_skis.2XD026_2DZT_F0009.html
Jan 7 2022 2:42PM
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skidemon22
Posts: 4418 - Karma: 1,944
FSSC, Full Stack Supply Co. (the company the Faction execs created to manage Faction, FW, etc.) is a business trying to find ways to make a profit. They already tried to make a rental ski program w/ the chapter 1.0 and 2.0 ski years ago; it failed miserably. They still have a rental offering, which also is pretty meh, and too expensive compared to what Head or Rossi can offer.

That said, they are relatively small when compared to AMER, MDV, VF corp, etc., so they were able to flirt with both being semi "core" and also developing a sustainable (as in long term goals, not saving the ice caps) and revenue-driven catalog. They have investors, employees to make money for. Being "core" doesn't impress the BOD, being profitable does. That said, unless FW has shored up their revenue, they were not in the black, even after ~15 years in the industry.
Jan 7 2022 3:21PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9266 - Karma: 67,497
tdolloNot gonna lie the Prada's look pretty sick

https://www.prada.com/ww/en/men/prada_linea_rossa/prada_linea_rossa_fw21/products.Faction_x_Prada_Linea_Rossa_Prodigy_3_0_skis.2XD026_2DZT_F0009.html


Kind of bummed they didn't just call it the Pradagy with that topsheet
Jan 7 2022 3:44PM
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OhJay
Posts: 320 - Karma: 1,062
And here they are making their way in to the ski boot arena. Hopefully those won't have QC issues like Faction's skis in the past (yes I know they've been moving around to bigger factories the past two years).

I do hope the ski boot side of things work out for them. Someone here guessed they might be buying up the Salomon SPK/Ghost molds as they're supposedly popular in Europe, and still Candide's current boot of choice. If true, would this not be core? I'd be interested to see what they look and feel like.
Jan 7 2022 4:04PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,573
At least this is a little more thoughtout than the Gilson slander earlier this week but is still pretty dumb. ON3P did pro model topsheets all using the same ski and no one cared but I guess Faction can't do that. Got it. They licensed their design to a company that will make a massive margine? Who cares, Faction will probably make a bunch of money through it cause there's people foolish enough to buy $4k skis. 'Core' needs to go back to being meme and not whatever arbituary thing you guys have turned it into to shame good companies that keep out sport movinh forward.
Jan 7 2022 5:21PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
Inb4 sponsonsored terrain park PradaPark
imagine they release prada park skis. They'd probably be 4 figures but I would 100% buy them resale if they were under 1k. Designer park skis—that's just unheard of.
Jan 7 2022 6:17PM
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jompcock
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 11,116
My understanding of core is that your money will go back into skiing. Seems they're mostly in the outdoor/freeski industry so while they're not as core as Arsenic or ON3P, they're still potentially ahead of companies like Amer and Head that have much more diverse financial interests such as tennis rackets and camp stoves.
Jan 7 2022 6:48PM
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Julius_Steezer
Posts: 776 - Karma: 4,531
Sponsor some of NS’s favourite skiers (legends like candide, established pros like Antti and ahall, up and comers like Bella b)

Produce a film every year with nbds and insane production quality and release for free

Make skis specifically for the freeski crowd (no race skis or snowboards etc to supplement profits)

Still get called out for being not core because they made a profit…
Jan 7 2022 7:21PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,573
Julius_SteezerSponsor some of NS’s favourite skiers (legends like candide, established pros like Antti and ahall, up and comers like Bella b)

Produce a film every year with nbds and insane production quality and release for free

Make skis specifically for the freeski crowd (no race skis or snowboards etc to supplement profits)

Still get called out for being not core because they made a profit…


For real. I hate feeling like the old boomer but this is ridiculous. Its getting as bad as the random pdog slander from this summer, now we're just pointlessly targeting ski companies based on nothing other than unjustified feelings.
Jan 7 2022 8:00PM
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skidemon22
Posts: 4418 - Karma: 1,944
shinbangclanInb4 sponsonsored terrain park PradaPark
imagine they release prada park skis. They'd probably be 4 figures but I would 100% buy them resale if they were under 1k. Designer park skis—that's just unheard of.


They are already available under 1k… the prodigy 1.0 is available for 499, identical ski. You are literally paying for the top sheet.
Jan 7 2022 8:09PM
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dmcdmc
Posts: 206 - Karma: 1,423
Easy to measure profits (dollars). How do you measure "heart" and "passion"?

As someone already posted they support some killer athletes and put out good content so nothing wrong with being a big ski company with partnerships that make them money (Prada). Same ski, different topsheet is a great way for ski companies to break into other industries. If someone wants to pay more for the same product or if the company wants to sell the same product with a different skin for more money, all the power to em. It's no more or less cool or core. Would I pay for some Prada Factions? Definitely not. The fact that they exist doesn't make me feel icky about any company other than Prada for not making their own stuff.
Jan 7 2022 8:21PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
skidemon22They are already available under 1k… the prodigy 1.0 is available for 499, identical ski. You are literally paying for the top sheet.


damn right im paying for the topsheet. The graphic is a make-or-break selling point for me. If a ski has perfect specs but looks like crap I am simply not riding it. Considering HALF my skiing experience is spent staring at my topsheets on the lift, that shit better be looking good.
Jan 7 2022 8:41PM
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AndrewRamsey
Posts: 5 - Karma: 55
Next years graphic on the Prodigy Series is pretty sick. It’s either people hate it or will love it. The general theme is all black with neon drawings. Would go hard with a forza.
Jan 7 2022 8:54PM
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clindblomskier
Posts: 686 - Karma: 5,139
I for one rock with the minimalist and simplistic graphics that faction brings to the table. Other than the massive conglomerate brands (head, Salomon etc) faction is the only one making skis with good shapes and quality with a minimalist design, which a lot of people (myself included) think is cool

louder more complex graphics are also totally awesome, but more options is cool
Jan 7 2022 9:28PM
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muffMan.
Posts: 2716 - Karma: 25,590
I just picked up a used pair of 2020s that you couldn’t be more right about



KilaTsunamiTheir topsheets kinda remind me of those generic iPhone backgrounds nobody ever picks
Jan 7 2022 9:53PM
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KilaTsunami
Posts: 2870 - Karma: 27,173
Coleg55I just picked up a used pair of 2020s that you couldn’t be more right about


Haha these the ones I was talking about 😂
Jan 7 2022 9:56PM
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skierman
Posts: 8293 - Karma: 7,287
Dang, can you imagine being so pathetic and vain that you care more about how your ski looks than how it performs?
Jan 8 2022 8:54AM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
The bullshit thing about Faction is that AHall skis the candide 1, but with prodigy topsheets to promo them. If he's promodel-graphic was on Candide 1 I would be totally down with it but making it seem like he skis prodigy 2 is just wack af
r00kieAt least this is a little more thoughtout than the Gilson slander earlier this week but is still pretty dumb. ON3P did pro model topsheets all using the same ski and no one cared but I guess Faction can't do that. Got it. They licensed their design to a company that will make a massive margine? Who cares, Faction will probably make a bunch of money through it cause there's people foolish enough to buy $4k skis. 'Core' needs to go back to being meme and not whatever arbituary thing you guys have turned it into to shame good companies that keep out sport movinh forward.
Jan 8 2022 9:36AM
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tominiemenmaa
Posts: 573 - Karma: 3,387
Really?
migidimigiThe bullshit thing about Faction is that AHall skis the candide 1, but with prodigy topsheets to promo them. If he's promodel-graphic was on Candide 1 I would be totally down with it but making it seem like he skis prodigy 2 is just wack af
Jan 8 2022 9:49AM
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Eightsails
Posts: 150 - Karma: 1,621
dmcdmcEasy to measure profits (dollars). How do you measure "heart" and "passion"?

As someone already posted they support some killer athletes and put out good content so nothing wrong with being a big ski company with partnerships that make them money (Prada). Same ski, different topsheet is a great way for ski companies to break into other industries. If someone wants to pay more for the same product or if the company wants to sell the same product with a different skin for more money, all the power to em. It's no more or less cool or core. Would I pay for some Prada Factions? Definitely not. The fact that they exist doesn't make me feel icky about any company other than Prada for not making their own stuff.

I mean you can't really measure 'heart' and 'passion', but I can definitely tell when I fell like a company has got it. The problem is that even the other big megacorps who own brands like Armada or Volkl for instance, (Amer / MDV) still manage to put out a brand that feels like it cares (obviously doesn't really care) about how people at least in the freestyle community view it. Even K2 bros drop in top forums and chat about development and graphics and stuff.

I doubt you would see Henrik skiing on a edollo in xgames with different specs than an actual edollo.

And lets be real all of factions dope films are because of the athletes and redbull media house. Just feels like faction is trying to really market a brand alone, instead of a brand in a sport.

Maybe I just really dislike Factions marketing department LOL.
Jan 8 2022 10:08AM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
Yeah even his real ski has couple of shots with mismatch pair of candide + "prodigy" skis
tominiemenmaaReally?
Jan 8 2022 11:02AM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
Even more clear on his security notice -video
https://youtu.be/2nQrYk7hTac
Jan 8 2022 11:09AM
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@LANTASKI
Posts: 599 - Karma: 1,586
way more core and more rad than Gilson. Big fan of my factions
Jan 8 2022 12:53PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,573
migidimigiThe bullshit thing about Faction is that AHall skis the candide 1, but with prodigy topsheets to promo them. If he's promodel-graphic was on Candide 1 I would be totally down with it but making it seem like he skis prodigy 2 is just wack af


Its not whack, for what I have always understood its pretty common practice. The whole point of sponsering skiers for the company is to promote their product. Line has done it and I'm sure just about any other company sponsering skiers has.
Jan 8 2022 1:18PM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
It is for sure whack no matter who does it. My original point was that ON3P was open about that their promodels are just graphics while Faction is using AHall to promote prodigy while he skis candide.
r00kieIts not whack, for what I have always understood its pretty common practice. The whole point of sponsering skiers for the company is to promote their product. Line has done it and I'm sure just about any other company sponsering skiers has.
Jan 8 2022 1:28PM
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mnosbod
Posts: 95 - Karma: 922
migidimigiEven more clear on his security notice -video
https://youtu.be/2nQrYk7hTac


Curious what makes you think this? Those look like the 2022 prodigy 1.0s...
Jan 8 2022 1:48PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,573
migidimigiIt is for sure whack no matter who does it. My original point was that ON3P was open about that their promodels are just graphics while Faction is using AHall to promote prodigy while he skis candide.


But you're aware of this so why do you care? Faction is just trying to sell skis so they use atheletes to promote different models. You want to slam a business for....doing business.
Jan 8 2022 2:06PM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
He has mitcmatch pair in a few shots, one candide, one "prodigy", but the skis are for sure the same model
mnosbodCurious what makes you think this? Those look like the 2022 prodigy 1.0s...
Jan 8 2022 2:11PM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
Because people who don't know this think that for example honey badger is bomb proof because andy and khai use it but in reality they use chronic with different top sheet.
Then they buy it and are disappointed when the ski breaks.
No matter the company, I think it's misleading and just whack
r00kieBut you're aware of this so why do you care? Faction is just trying to sell skis so they use atheletes to promote different models. You want to slam a business for....doing business.
Jan 8 2022 2:17PM
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@LANTASKI
Posts: 599 - Karma: 1,586
I mean what do u expect with Line? theyre a broke boi brand for teens.

ive haf multiple pairs of lines ranging from invaders to Bacons and Opuses and they all fell apart after 15 or so days

graduated to Fischer and Blizzard and wi never go back to an American ski. Build quality aint there
Jan 8 2022 3:20PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
skiermanDang, can you imagine being so pathetic and vain that you care more about how your ski looks than how it performs?


Cause this isn't racing. Park skiing is about style. Style includes your setup. Good skiers can make any decent ski work. Style is what shows personality and ski graphic is included in that. I'm sorry you ride QSTs or something
Jan 8 2022 4:13PM
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mnosbod
Posts: 95 - Karma: 922
migidimigiBecause people who don't know this think that for example honey badger is bomb proof because andy and khai use it but in reality they use chronic with different top sheet.
Then they buy it and are disappointed when the ski breaks.
No matter the company, I think it's misleading and just whack

Pretty positive the Khai thing was a myth. He has posted and said multiple times in interviews he rides the regular Honey Badgers. They just get multiple pairs per season so durability isn't really an issue at that point

**This post was edited on Jan 8th 2022 at 5:01:15pm
Jan 8 2022 5:00PM
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migidimigi
Posts: 409 - Karma: 3,009
3-4 years ago andy even sold his chronics with honey badger topsheet. Don't know if line has changed their ways since, hopefully so
mnosbodPretty positive the Khai thing was a myth. He has posted and said multiple times in interviews he rides the regular Honey Badgers. They just get multiple pairs per season so durability isn't really an issue at that point

**This post was edited on Jan 8th 2022 at 5:01:15pm
Jan 9 2022 1:13AM
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Rodigan
Posts: 1292 - Karma: 1,851
tdolloNot gonna lie the Prada's look pretty sick

https://www.prada.com/ww/en/men/prada_linea_rossa/prada_linea_rossa_fw21/products.Faction_x_Prada_Linea_Rossa_Prodigy_3_0_skis.2XD026_2DZT_F0009.html


i got a used pair for sale, only had two days.......delam'd to fuck ....£2500
Jan 9 2022 9:07AM
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tdollo
Posts: 3753 - Karma: 18,220
Rodigani got a used pair for sale, only had two days.......delam'd to fuck ....£2500

Mate don't tell me you paid 2.5k on em...
Jan 9 2022 11:21AM
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sarc
Posts: 246 - Karma: 1,879
The 1.0s look great to me.

I'd feel like a wanker on a 4k ski though. Maybe used for under $1k like you say, but I don't think people like that bother to re-sell things. They just toss them in the warehouse or the dump.
Jan 9 2022 11:46AM
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Rodigan
Posts: 1292 - Karma: 1,851
I wouldn’t pay £50 for a new pair homie.
tdolloMate don't tell me you paid 2.5k on em...
Jan 9 2022 2:45PM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 243 - Karma: 702
A lot of companies use false topsheets for athletes because often the top athletes are on proto skis. Those are either custom for them or in development for future use- Most of them will have a proto program for their comp ski and ride something stock for fun. Backcountry/non-comp park guys are almost always on stock skis because that is generally the best tool for the job. I have mounted a bunch of skis for some big names (albeit older ones at this point) at the shop I used to work at, and you could tell early in the season when dew tour was around there were a ton of prototype skis floating around (generally super light, super stiff and constantly breaking), and as the season went on and most people were there just to film were on bone stock skis.

IDK man there are not a ton of companies that really invest in media in the way that Faction does. When was the last K2 movie? Does Volkl even make more than one twin? The only one that is even sort of on par is Line IMO. Or maybe Armada. On3P makes awesome team movies and has great riders, but doesn't really have the resource to support and uplift some of these big names making money on their teams.

Have you ever skied on a prodigy? that ski is fucking awesome, especially the 3.0 Way better than the CT in my opinion.
Jan 10 2022 1:44PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 13,488
r00kieAt least this is a little more thoughtout than the Gilson slander earlier this week but is still pretty dumb. ON3P did pro model topsheets all using the same ski and no one cared but I guess Faction can't do that. Got it. They licensed their design to a company that will make a massive margine? Who cares, Faction will probably make a bunch of money through it cause there's people foolish enough to buy $4k skis. 'Core' needs to go back to being meme and not whatever arbituary thing you guys have turned it into to shame good companies that keep out sport movinh forward.


I don't understand how making pro edition skis is "corporate" and "not core" when there are so many other companies without any pro skis at all. Honestly I think that promoting specific riders and emulating skateboarding brands is pretty far from "corporate".

Also, Faction topsheets have always had a simple "modern art" style, and their recent designs are just evolutions of that. I don't love them but I don't think they look uninspired or lazy yet.

It's so cringy how much the word "corporate" is thrown around on this site lmao, y'all don't know what an actually "corporate" vibe is like.
Jan 12 2022 11:30AM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 13,488
jompcockMy understanding of core is that your money will go back into skiing. Seems they're mostly in the outdoor/freeski industry so while they're not as core as Arsenic or ON3P, they're still potentially ahead of companies like Amer and Head that have much more diverse financial interests such as tennis rackets and camp stoves.

Name literally one company that sells skis (aside from Salomon) whose profits don't "go back into skiing".
Jan 12 2022 11:42AM
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Twig
Posts: 6400 - Karma: 59,590
Funny thread. FWIW I dropped by the Faction head office more or less unannounced a couple days ago and had some beers with the CEO. I checked out some of the new gear and we chatted shop about the industry, he was super hyped on adding Bella to the team and bummed they didn't have a street part in the new film. There are things you can hate on Faction for, but being an out-of-touch super corp is not one of them.
Jan 12 2022 12:56PM
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NikolaB73
Posts: 163 - Karma: 1,393
AngryGrampsA lot of companies use false topsheets for athletes because often the top athletes are on proto skis. Those are either custom for them or in development for future use- Most of them will have a proto program for their comp ski and ride something stock for fun. Backcountry/non-comp park guys are almost always on stock skis because that is generally the best tool for the job. I have mounted a bunch of skis for some big names (albeit older ones at this point) at the shop I used to work at, and you could tell early in the season when dew tour was around there were a ton of prototype skis floating around (generally super light, super stiff and constantly breaking), and as the season went on and most people were there just to film were on bone stock skis.

IDK man there are not a ton of companies that really invest in media in the way that Faction does. When was the last K2 movie? Does Volkl even make more than one twin? The only one that is even sort of on par is Line IMO. Or maybe Armada. On3P makes awesome team movies and has great riders, but doesn't really have the resource to support and uplift some of these big names making money on their teams.

Have you ever skied on a prodigy? that ski is fucking awesome, especially the 3.0 Way better than the CT in my opinion.

appreciate the info man, good stuff
Jan 12 2022 1:12PM
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Eightsails
Posts: 150 - Karma: 1,621
Dear Faction,

Jan 12 2022 1:40PM
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Rodigan
Posts: 1292 - Karma: 1,851
TwigFunny thread. FWIW I dropped by the Faction head office more or less unannounced a couple days ago and had some beers with the CEO. I checked out some of the new gear and we chatted shop about the industry, he was super hyped on adding Bella to the team and bummed they didn't have a street part in the new film. There are things you can hate on Faction for, but being an out-of-touch super corp is not one of them.

did he mention those £2600 Prada topsheets .....
Jan 12 2022 3:42PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 13,488
Rodigandid he mention those £2600 Prada topsheets .....


Ngl I think it doesn't make sense for them to be so exorbitantly expensive, could've made the skis just like $950 and it would still be appropriate price for a Prada product
Jan 12 2022 3:56PM
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jompcock
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 11,116
FruitBootProName literally one company that sells skis (aside from Salomon) whose profits don't "go back into skiing".


When you buy a pair of Head skis, they can choose to take that money and put it toward skiing. They also make tennis rackets so they can take their ski related profits and put it toward tennis gear. I don't pay enough attention to know who owns k2 right now but at one point they too were owned by a conglomerate who owned Coleman and Rubbermaid, with the capability to take K2's profits and put them toward other things. Also this wasn't very core either.
Jan 13 2022 1:11AM
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