A serious discussion about Pivots

skierman_jackA little background: I have been skiing park for 4 seasons now. In that time I’ve rode Griffins, Jesters, Attacks, and of course pivots. I’m riding pivots on my daily driver park skis right now.

recently I’ve noticed this surge in demand for pivots and I’ve received some ridiculous offers for my battered and conglomerated Frankenstein pivots. I want to shed some light on the truth about pivots and why they are not maybe all they are hyped to be

Pivots are the BMW of bindings: they’re still just a car, but they have some luxuries that people desire. They are also really expensive and tend to break down more than the usual car and cost you a lot when they do. I currently own 3 pairs of pivots: 18s, fks 185s, and some older 12s. Of those 6 heels and 6 toes, I have 1 working set. The rest are for parts. That is the reality of owning pivots more than a couple seasons old. They will break and it will ruin your day. Mine broke again on Sunday and yes they are properly set up. Oh and if you’ve ever hiked with pivots you know they are a pain in the ass.

the Tyrolia Attack is like a Honda Accord. Nicer than people think, cheaper, and about 95% of the BMW. It will also run forever and when it breaks it will be easy and cheap to fix.

pivots are great bindings. They do what a binding should. The release feels consistent and the feedback from the ski is great. But they are not the end all be all. they have plenty of flaws including their price.

I get that there is this status around pivots. They look really cool and they have cool color ways and they are the “top tier” of bindings. But Tyrolia and Marker have been catching up with new colorways. And really there’s not too much a pivot gives you that any other cannot

As with everything: focus on skiing and not the gear on your feet. I shouldn’t have kids offering me 300 bucks for my excuse of pivot 18s just because they’re pivot 18s. Bindings are bindings. As long as you get good quality ones they will never hold you back. If anyone reading this is holding out for a pair of pivots: I recommend you just grab some Tyrolia attacks. You will not be disappointed at all. They will be just as good and cheaper

**This thread was edited on Jan 4th 2022 at 11:37:44am

OhJayQuestion for those who have tried Pivots as well as Griffins, Attacks, STHs, etc.

Is the shorter mount point that noticeable compared to others? Do you feel it actually affects your skiing?

Mounted up my new dailies with Attacks for this season, and can't help but notice how long that metal track is behind my heel. Can't tell any difference though from Griffons and STH2s I've used in the past, but I've never tried Pivots before so am curious. Although reading through the comments here, even if there is a noticeable difference, not sure this benefit alone would be worth the switch to Pivots for me.

betzAs a dude who skies minimal park and has been on either markers, attacks, or STH bindings for his whole life, and just got on pivots this season, I gotta say I do notice the difference. All my other bindings I have to set to at least 9 DIN or else my bindings will pop out just losing my balance for a sec, but the pivots are much better at not pre releasing and mine are only set to 8 DIN. They had an uncanny ability to just release when they were supposed to, and my other bindings especially when riding in powder would pre release left and right. Otherwise they do seem a little finicky to get on sometimes and don't have the same powerful click in that STH's or attacks have, but the tendency not to pre release definitely puts them a leg up on other bindings. I'll just have to see how they hold up over time.

Out of the other bindings the attacks are definitely my favorite though. For the price and that it's stupid easy to adjust and it fits a pretty wide range of boot sizes so I can let my friends try my skis out. Pivots are nearly mounted to your exact boot size with very little adjustment which can pose some issues.

migidimigiI've been skiing park for 15 years, I've used griffons for 12 years and pivots for 4-5. Last season I had two park ski pairs, one with pivots, one with griffons, so I was able to use the back to back.
With that experience, pivots are better and they feel more solid and sort of make you more in touch with your skis. I'll pick pivots any day over griffons based on that and considerable durability gain.

That being said, the difference is no way worth the price difference. If you have the money, get pivots but if you are short on cash prioritise boots and skis and pretty much everything else.

Skier_boi616Well my friend you must be some kind of trust funder or something because none of us guys can afford your “supreme quality”. Or all that “ I need to set the DIN higher” bullshit. Just saying.

OhJayQuestion for those who have tried Pivots as well as Griffins, Attacks, STHs, etc.

Is the shorter mount point that noticeable compared to others? Do you feel it actually affects your skiing?

Mounted up my new dailies with Attacks for this season, and can't help but notice how long that metal track is behind my heel. Can't tell any difference though from Griffons and STH2s I've used in the past, but I've never tried Pivots before so am curious. Although reading through the comments here, even if there is a noticeable difference, not sure this benefit alone would be worth the switch to Pivots for me.

migidimigiIt is noticeable for sure especially when bending the ski for butters, taps, ollies etc.

Does it make you ski better or faster or smth tho? Absolutely not! The binding and the whole setup just feels better and more solid

betzuhhhhhhh ok? I'm just trying to give my experience with them. I'm a 28 y.o. mechanical engineer, I make ok money for my area and I grew up with my mom on food stamps and was never given money for shit. I didn't start skiing until college and it was always on my own dime.

For this season I bought a set of 3 skis on craigslist, a couple with attacks and one with pivots which is why I'm still messing with the DINs on them, gonna probably sell a couple later after I've tried them all out. For my first day out though I tried out what the ski shop set them to.

But anyways, that has nothing to do with how look pivots operate. Most bindings release at a specific torque while pivots release at that torque + they move (pivot) a set distance so there has to be a prolonged torque for them to release. This is why they are better at not pre-releasing and the whole point of them is so you can set the DIN at an appropriate level for your skill and they will do a better job at releasing appropriately. I care about my knees so I try and set my bindings at the lowest DIN possible where they only release when I've had a fall and not when I'm still standing.

I'm like, probably a pretty shit skier compared to most of you guys but I think we can all agree that pre-releasing is not fun, neither are torn ACL's. The people who think pivots are just universally better on your knees and crank the fuck out of the DIN are dumbasses, the whole point of pivots are that they don't pre-release as easily, which is why they are better for skiers who ski hard. Me, I am just heavy, so just throwing my weight around sometimes normal bindings will release where the pivots don't. I literally just skied back to back on some Tyrolia attacks and pivots both set at 8 DIN, the attacks were on a deep deep powder day and the pivots were on a leftovers / mogul day. The attacks I was sending it down a little chute and they immediately double ejected when I had my weight too far forward, and later in the trees I hit a flat spot and I was still standing and one ski ejected for barely any good reason. With the pivots I had a couple of close calls where I almost fell and the pivots stayed in place. They also did release that day though when I just fell like an idiot but they never released when I was standing. So yeah seems like they work as intended.

bennwithtwonshow are your guys' bindings failing, pivots or otherwise?

elm.I got pivots for CAST and pivots just have some kind of secret sauce that other bindings don't.

Also getting them on in powder really isn't that hard at all, just get all the snow off your skis and boots.

DTetzI just snapped the brake on my griffons. This being said they’re 4 years old

sambuswellSTH2s are underrated on here. They have easy to replace brakes, a variety of colorways, consistent release, easy step in, and a proven toe piece design.

Do pivots ski better? Maybe, but I'm not good enough to notice a difference. It's reqlly nice being able to adjust my STHs for different boot sizes and sole standards without having to remount or buy new bindings.

LemuelThis right here. Glad you guys all go pivot and attack crazy, keeps it affordable for us Solly fans. I’ll never put any other binding on my skis. I feel way more connected to my skis in the STH2 than in pivots. I’m going to go ahead and say it has the best toe piece on the market, and no other binding matches the step in consistency. It’s got a floating heal piece too, so the ski flexes underfoot unlike the marker or attack.

dynafitdaffyI'm gonna agree with you here, the small difference in release on the pivots has served me well. I can think of several times off the top of my head where my pivot 15s released and I was glad they did, or else I'd have had a nastier fall. There are also times when the pivots held in (hard charging in pow/trees) when I really would not want them to fall off. To be fair I haven't spent a lot of time on other bindings. However, the fact that pivots are so hard to clip into, especially in pow when you're trying to hike a park feature, is annoying as fuck. If it weren't for the cast free tour system I'd be rocking griffons, jesters, or attacks.

mrk127Pivots are the most overrated piece of ski gear to ever exist.

Change my mind

MPoubThis thread is aids because no one is talking about the actual performance differences between other bindings on the market. I agree, the Pivot craze is ridiculous because Attacks work just fine, but if it’s a good deal, it’s a good deal.

betzAs a dude who skies minimal park and has been on either markers, attacks, or STH bindings for his whole life, and just got on pivots this season, I gotta say I do notice the difference. All my other bindings I have to set to at least 9 DIN or else my bindings will pop out just losing my balance for a sec, but the pivots are much better at not pre releasing and mine are only set to 8 DIN. They had an uncanny ability to just release when they were supposed to, and my other bindings especially when riding in powder would pre release left and right. Otherwise they do seem a little finicky to get on sometimes and don't have the same powerful click in that STH's or attacks have, but the tendency not to pre release definitely puts them a leg up on other bindings. I'll just have to see how they hold up over time.

Out of the other bindings the attacks are definitely my favorite though. For the price and that it's stupid easy to adjust and it fits a pretty wide range of boot sizes so I can let my friends try my skis out. Pivots are nearly mounted to your exact boot size with very little adjustment which can pose some issues.

skeirmangore-tex

AlexHallsEyebrowWhat is bad about hiking features with pivots?

betzBut anyways, that has nothing to do with how look pivots operate. Most bindings release at a specific torque while pivots release at that torque + they move (pivot) a set distance so there has to be a prolonged torque for them to release. This is why they are better at not pre-releasing and the whole point of them is so you can set the DIN at an appropriate level for your skill and they will do a better job at releasing appropriately.

bennwithtwonshow are your guys' bindings failing, pivots or otherwise?

IsaacNW82I'm not sure you have this right. The force at the toe to release is the DIN setting and the distance is the elastic travel. This is true of every alpine binding. Non-turntable bindings still allow the boot to rotate, just at the heel cup instead of rotating the entire assembly. Also, if I remember correctly, STH's actually have more elastic travel than Pivots.