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Designed a weird fishtail, wanted to get anyones advice
Ik I could’ve gone to ski builder forums for this but as far as geometry and everything goes I wanted to get anyones advice as to how it would perform if I built it. Core would be poplar and beech with carbon stringers.
I don’t know shit about engineering but didn’t the black crows people say their new swallow tail design is purely aesthetic and there’s no real benefit to it?
armada1652150mm tip wayyy to big. Ski tip would make the ski be slow.
I agree with mr armada over here, the tip and tail seem to be too fat compared to the waist width. I really dig the graphic design though, the scales are fire
The right swallow tail design absolutely does make a difference. The most important thing is the difference in surface area that causes the tail to sink and tips to rise. The larger the difference in surface area, the more noticeable the performance in soft snow. You can achieve this surface area difference with larger overall taper angle (tips being wider than tail) or a pin tail design BUT swallow tails allows the effective edge to be longer witch makes the skis more versatile on harder snow. Hope that makes sense.
The right swallow tail design absolutely does make a difference. The most important thing is the difference in surface area that causes the tail to sink and tips to rise. The larger the difference in surface area, the more noticeable the performance in soft snow. You can achieve this surface area difference with larger overall taper angle (tips being wider than tail) or a pin tail design BUT swallow tails allows the effective edge to be longer witch makes the skis more versatile on harder snow. Hope that makes sense.
Like Lineenginerd said, swallowtails work, they just help the tail to sink, which the black crows one doesn’t really do. Cool that you draw skis out like that, have done it several times myself, even made s cardboard cutout model like Eric Pollard did. Super fun peoject, i think you should try it out to get a vision of how it will look
I like the play on fish tale with the scales, if u did it like a rainbow or brook trout type "scales" on it it would look so sick and people who fly fish would be extra drawn like how that one rainbow trout J skis graphic compelled so many skiers who fly fish to buy. the noodle name and logo is cool too
Imagine stating an opinion in 2022. I think the noodle is alright, I'm getting a lot of cutesy clip arty college kid vibes from it. Which is like kinda turning me off from it because its very overdone but yeah.
Like rn its lookin kinda?? "kawaii" for lack of a better word, fuck I hate saying tht.
DeadBImagine stating an opinion in 2022. I think the noodle is alright, I'm getting a lot of cutesy clip arty college kid vibes from it. Which is like kinda turning me off from it because its very overdone but yeah.
Like rn its lookin kinda?? "kawaii" for lack of a better word, fuck I hate saying tht.
No no, I’m not hating on OP I’m hating on the guy using :) ;) :(
flavourtownI like the play on fish tale with the scales, if u did it like a rainbow or brook trout type "scales" on it it would look so sick and people who fly fish would be extra drawn like how that one rainbow trout J skis graphic compelled so many skiers who fly fish to buy. the noodle name and logo is cool too
ooo I feel like photorealistic fish scales transitioning into just a solid color would look nice.
Nah I get that. Just a play on my last name thought it was neat
DeadBImagine stating an opinion in 2022. I think the noodle is alright, I'm getting a lot of cutesy clip arty college kid vibes from it. Which is like kinda turning me off from it because its very overdone but yeah.
Like rn its lookin kinda?? "kawaii" for lack of a better word, fuck I hate saying tht.
DesertStixI don’t know shit about engineering but didn’t the black crows people say their new swallow tail design is purely aesthetic and there’s no real benefit to it?
Yes but that was JRs reasoning behind it. The Sakanas and Pescados actually do make a difference like @Cascara said. The new Miriam Cor is aesthetic because they chose to implement it in a way that doesn’t make a mechanical difference
ok nvm about the reverse camber. i saw the 3mm of camber. i think its gonna be hard to get the core to press into that shape and hold. but i could be wrong.
snowcad doesnt really support rocker. so my previous post are garbage. sorry.
i think with that much rocker the ski going to be floppy on hard pack.
I actually looked up the pescado blister review and copied its rocker profile, tweaked the shape a bit and the rocker, camber but im hoping it doesn't ski like total shit
ajbski
ok nvm about the reverse camber. i saw the 3mm of camber. i think its gonna be hard to get the core to press into that shape and hold. but i could be wrong.
snowcad doesnt really support rocker. so my previous post are garbage. sorry.
i think with that much rocker the ski going to be floppy on hard pack.
nOtyRmOm123I actually looked up the pescado blister review and copied its rocker profile, tweaked the shape a bit and the rocker, camber but im hoping it doesn't ski like total shit
compared to the pescado, i think your proportions are a little bit off. almost everything is ski-able, really the most important part of a home build is getting a good base grind.
if i were you, id:
- increase the running length of the ski (shorter tip/tail rocker; more cambered area)
- lose the extra radius for the tip and tail. the rocker should be enough for your tip rise.
- move the widest point of the nose a little bit down the ski. so the effective edge is closer to your foot and rides like a shorter ski on hard pack
- add a little more camber 1cm
ajbskicompared to the pescado, i think your proportions are a little bit off. almost everything is ski-able, really the most important part of a home build is getting a good base grind.
if i were you, id:
- increase the running length of the ski (shorter tip/tail rocker; more cambered area)
- lose the extra radius for the tip and tail. the rocker should be enough for your tip rise.
- move the widest point of the nose a little bit down the ski. so the effective edge is closer to your foot and rides like a shorter ski on hard pack
- add a little more camber 1cm
The pink foam has enough compressive strength to not deform under pressure? Or are you pressing under vacuum?
I hear the tail sinking argument, and I've never skied a swallow tail ski so I can't actually speak to it. Is it actually enough surface area reduction to matter? The tail of a ski is, in the grand scheme of things, not a lot of surface area, though it is at the end of a lever. Without a really deep cut, are you even in a realm where it matters that much? There's probably something to be said for allowing for extreme flex on the extremities with a deep swallow too. But I think when people say "we reduced the tail area by x%" it's a bit misleading. You took a low surface area item and made it lower, and that number changes depending on where you start measuring. So was it ever hard to keep the tails sunken since even a high area tail isn't all that much area, given that I'm a human of some mass and strength? Again, I don't know and I'd like try it, and am 100% okay with being wrong. But it seems like one of those things where it's like yeah, we made your 100hp car 110hp so it's technically faster. Except either way it's in the category of slow af.
I shape surfboards, and the tail area of a surfboard is much higher than on skis. On a wide tail board the force exerted due to the high surface area is significant when the forces pushing against it are considered, aka a human standing on it. Reducing that by half makes a substantial difference when trying to sink the tail, whether you pin it or swallow it. You go from enough force to support said human to making that human sink the tail into the water and stall. Pinning it and swallow do different things, with the wide swallow keeping a longer, straighter rail line projecting a bit more than a pin. I assume a pintail ski would carve poorly, or ski like early JJs where the sidecut was compressed to like a snowblade length underfoot. People even do swallow flextails, where the foam feathers out to a solid fiberglass tail that's very thin, which supposedly flexes in the water and occasionally chops your foot off. That's a concept I'd like to see attempted on a ski, where the tail can really bend at the ends due to a deep swallow and even twist when the ski is cranked over.
Currently you are running about a 16m sidecut radius. I would consider something more in the range of 18+ as I feel like this could be kind of catchy in the tips especially since these are going to ski short due to the tails sinking from the swallow tail.
LukeTheWafflewhy is the tail rising even though its a swallow?
I thought about that too. I would hope its more rocker than anything although its drawn more like a twin. The rocker would help it be less catchy in more variable snow and that's important as these could easily feel like boats in front of you
nOtyRmOm123well i just bought demos and am laying them up in a week so come out to Wisconsin pay for my lift ticket and "make the whole mountain your playground"
