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in the process of convincing my dad to let me purchase pivots for myself. He mainly just doesnt want me to waste my own money on 300+ bindings that I will only use until my skis break so i need some durability evidence to add to my argument. How many years have u been using a pair of pivots/how many pairs of skis have you remounted said pivots on?
5 years still bullet proof. You gotta convince him that they are also way safer than any other binding and tell him they are safer for your knees and tendons like your ACLS, even tho that may not be entirely true he will probably buy into it seeing how much different they are than traditional heel pieces
Railslayer695 years still bullet proof. You gotta convince him that they are also way safer than any other binding and tell him they are safer for your knees and tendons like your ACLS, even tho that may not be entirely true he will probably buy into it seeing how much different they are than traditional heel pieces
Do not pay $300 for any pivots, they can be found for much cheaper. Also the oldest pair I use are from 2006 I believe, they were pristine when I got them though so I imagine they were not used heavily.
Do not pay $300 for any pivots, they can be found for much cheaper. Also the oldest pair I use are from 2006 I believe, they were pristine when I got them though so I imagine they were not used heavily.
I would agree with this. I’ve never gotten Pivots for more than $200. Even that feels like a lot. People pay ungodly amounts for pivots now. I just nabbed some attack 13s for literally $120 yesterday
Paul.Do not pay $300 for any pivots, they can be found for much cheaper. Also the oldest pair I use are from 2006 I believe, they were pristine when I got them though so I imagine they were not used heavily.
my oldest are also from 2005 or 2006. i have never had an issue other than the plastic piece at the back (baseplate of sorts) cracking. i have actually several pairs from that era they are solid and work properly.
Increased elasticity means you can have the din at a lower setting without releasing than a binding with less elasticity. Obviously depends on the binding since I believe STH's have more elasticity in the toe than pivots. Pivots can also release vertically out of the toe which markers cannot. Definitely depends on the circumstance but I wouldn't call it entirely false that they're safer than some things on the market.
blyatfulI paid 500 for pivot 15 silver and bentchetler 100newest Modell all new
What country?? MSRP is $400 for the 15/18 in the US
**This post was edited on Dec 25th 2021 at 12:22:18pm
jompcockIncreased elasticity means you can have the din at a lower setting without releasing than a binding with less elasticity. Obviously depends on the binding since I believe STH's have more elasticity in the toe than pivots. Pivots can also release vertically out of the toe which markers cannot. Definitely depends on the circumstance but I wouldn't call it entirely false that they're safer than some things on the market.
What country?? MSRP is $400 for the 15/18 in the US
**This post was edited on Dec 25th 2021 at 12:22:18pm
Being able to have your release value lower doesn’t mean that a binding is safer 😂
faber-castellin the process of convincing my dad to let me purchase pivots for myself. He mainly just doesnt want me to waste my own money on 300+ bindings that I will only use until my skis break so i need some durability evidence to add to my argument. How many years have u been using a pair of pivots/how many pairs of skis have you remounted said pivots on?
Honestly they just look cool, that’s why I got them
animatorBeing able to have your release value lower doesn’t mean that a binding is safer 😂
How though? A binding with zero elasticity would need a really high din setting to not release and that would be quite dangerous. A binding capable of letting the boot rotate a 45º before releasing could have its din quite low and not exert such extreme forces on the users knees.
Paul.Sounds like he paid 500 total for bindings + skis
My point kind of applied to either direction. What shop is selling pivot 15's on a new pair of Bentchetler 100's for $500? That's a $1000 setup if you go from pricing on evo.
**This post was edited on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:50:24pm
jompcockHow though? A binding with zero elasticity would need a really high din setting to not release and that would be quite dangerous. A binding capable of letting the boot rotate a 45º before releasing could have its din quite low and not exert such extreme forces on the users knees.
More elasticity does not equal safer. It means that the binding can withstand higher energy before releasing. If a pro skier is subjecting his Marker Griffon to X amount of force, and he releases, but then does the same exact thing in a Look Pivot and doesn’t release, it could be better or worse. If he falls in a certain way, releasing could be better or worse depending on the scenario.
animatorMore elasticity does not equal safer. It means that the binding can withstand higher energy before releasing. If a pro skier is subjecting his Marker Griffon to X amount of force, and he releases, but then does the same exact thing in a Look Pivot and doesn’t release, it could be better or worse. If he falls in a certain way, releasing could be better or worse depending on the scenario.
You could make the same argument about seat belts. People have avoided deadly car accidents by being thrown through the windshield. You could say summer tires are safer in the winter than winter tires because you'll get stuck in a snow bank before you have a chance to get in a highway accident.
Elasticity absolutely makes a binding safer when you consider the forces exerted on the knee. Elasticity means the boot can rotate further in the binding before release. You're literally increasing the time of impact with more elasticity which decreases the force exerted on the knee.
So honestly i think it's great.. Everything getting pricier but this shop is always fair.. Check it out at: xspo.com there you can search for betchetlers and kinda "make you setup" and add bindings. They will even mount them for you. It's a great shop, i've had no issues! Can only recommend. I think the shop is in germany but i orderes it to switzerland
jompcockHow though? A binding with zero elasticity would need a really high din setting to not release and that would be quite dangerous. A binding capable of letting the boot rotate a 45º before releasing could have its din quite low and not exert such extreme forces on the users knees.
My point kind of applied to either direction. What shop is selling pivot 15's on a new pair of Bentchetler 100's for $500? That's a $1000 setup if you go from pricing on evo.
**This post was edited on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:50:24pm
I have a pair of og fks 18s that are still kicking strong ten seasons later. My newer forzas been solid for three seasons now. I’ve only had to replace the baseplates on the fks once so not bad.
The newer pivots suck...I have broken 6 base, 4 afd plates and two heel pieces (On brand new p18s, since 2018. The past 20 years i have broken a total of 14 bases). The irony is I still have functioning fks from 2003. The build quality sucks and the plastic is super brittle; the afd plates are garbage on newer ones and have multiple flaws. They tried making the afd thicker on the gw, but you will still destroy that heel/brake due to cheap alloys being used. Also fun fact, Rossignol group will not warranty anything and tell you to take the heel piece up your ass.
jompcockYou could make the same argument about seat belts. People have avoided deadly car accidents by being thrown through the windshield. You could say summer tires are safer in the winter than winter tires because you'll get stuck in a snow bank before you have a chance to get in a highway accident.
Elasticity absolutely makes a binding safer when you consider the forces exerted on the knee. Elasticity means the boot can rotate further in the binding before release. You're literally increasing the time of impact with more elasticity which decreases the force exerted on the knee.
That’s not why elasticity exists dude 😂😂😂 elasticity is to prevent skiers from releasing earlier than necessary, not save their knees. That’s what the release is for
This is the case in most products nowadays not? Everyone want sell as many as possible and if a product is too durable the amount of selling goes down.. So every company builds product with a kind of defect.. But it's trash i agree..
rudolphThe newer pivots suck...I have broken 6 base, 4 afd plates and two heel pieces (On brand new p18s, since 2018. The past 20 years i have broken a total of 14 bases). The irony is I still have functioning fks from 2003. The build quality sucks and the plastic is super brittle; the afd plates are garbage on newer ones and have multiple flaws. They tried making the afd thicker on the gw, but you will still destroy that heel/brake due to cheap alloys being used. Also fun fact, Rossignol group will not warranty anything and tell you to take the heel piece up your ass.
I have a pair of the fks 155s that are black and gold. No idea what year but the brakes are probably 70mm so they were designed for race skis, I'm guessing early 2000s. They had been used for 10 seasons when I bought them off a dude on NS. I skied them hard for 3 seasons, had to replace a toe piece but those are easy to find. They are a little janky now just cause of how worn down they are but they still hold my skis on just fine.
Railslayer695 years still bullet proof. You gotta convince him that they are also way safer than any other binding and tell him they are safer for your knees and tendons like your ACLS, even tho that may not be entirely true he will probably buy into it seeing how much different they are than traditional heel pieces
BradFiAusNzCoCaI would agree with this. I’ve never gotten Pivots for more than $200. Even that feels like a lot. People pay ungodly amounts for pivots now. I just nabbed some attack 13s for literally $120 yesterday
out of curiosity, where can you get pivots for cheap?
I, most recently, bought them from sun n ski online in like September-ish. They had a promotional online discount code too so total was like $205 out the door. Mostly I just check random websites and keep my finger on the pulse of the pivot market when I’m bored. The good deals thread in gear talk is a good resource too
HomerPimpinout of curiosity, where can you get pivots for cheap?
JacobthesadskierThe real question you should be asking yourself OP is, why do you want pivots in the first place? Attacks are just as good, and a lot cheaper.
i think the vast majority of people who want pivots only want them for the style factor. i doubt anybody really benefits from the added safety of the elasticity, unless you’re throwing big stuff in the park or charge unimaginably hard.
HomerPimpinout of curiosity, where can you get pivots for cheap?
Corbetts.com has 12s for ~$190ish USD, 18s for $260ish and 14s + 15s in the middle.i'd have to check the exchange rates and do math but it's something around that. Corbetts is all priced in CAD and they deliver to the US free.
animatorMore elasticity does not equal safer. It means that the binding can withstand higher energy before releasing. If a pro skier is subjecting his Marker Griffon to X amount of force, and he releases, but then does the same exact thing in a Look Pivot and doesn’t release, it could be better or worse. If he falls in a certain way, releasing could be better or worse depending on the scenario.
True, I would say the pivot is popular with pro level skiers because of the lack of pre-release in non fall situations.
In terms of durability it depends which model you're talking about. I had a pair of pivot 14s that didn't last a month before the sliding plate on the toe piece jammed and basically left the binding useless. Look refused point blank to refund me for this as well. I replaced them with pivot 18s which don't have that mechanism on them and no issues in 5 years. As a result I would seriously advise anyone to avoid having a binding with one of these sliding contact plate mechanisms on the toes under your boot sole.
baz25216True, I would say the pivot is popular with pro level skiers because of the lack of pre-release in non fall situations.
In terms of durability it depends which model you're talking about. I had a pair of pivot 14s that didn't last a month before the sliding plate on the toe piece jammed and basically left the binding useless. Look refused point blank to refund me for this as well. I replaced them with pivot 18s which don't have that mechanism on them and no issues in 5 years. As a result I would seriously advise anyone to avoid having a binding with one of these sliding contact plate mechanisms on the toes under your boot sole.
Are you talking about the AFD? There’s a lot of good bindings out there with sliding AFDs, and the fact that you don’t know what it’s called means you should probably avoid giving advice like “everyone should avoid owning bindings with the sliding toe mechanism” because A. One person having an AFD break means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of quality and B. Your advice is based on your experience only, just because yours broke does not speak to the reliability of the product at all.
animatorAre you talking about the AFD? There’s a lot of good bindings out there with sliding AFDs, and the fact that you don’t know what it’s called means you should probably avoid giving advice like “everyone should avoid owning bindings with the sliding toe mechanism” because A. One person having an AFD break means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of quality and B. Your advice is based on your experience only, just because yours broke does not speak to the reliability of the product at all.
Really. Hmm, it doesn't matter to me what its called. That would be why I've not bothered to look into it. But I've enough sense to know they're not reliable if I get two pairs of look bindings with the same mechanism in it, and both of them have a similar issue with that mechanism inside 3 months of use in the case of the SPX12, and inside 1 month of use in the case of the pivot 14... So go away and read another binding information sheet.... Its not unlucky if it happens twice, it is poor quality or design of products that result in this. They are also completely unnecessary, which is why I would avoid using them in preference. The more moving parts there are, the more parts there are to fail. A well designed ski binding should be more than capable of lasting a decade without issues. You can still see old dudes going around with vintage kit from the 80s on that works just as well now as it did then. Not all developments are improvements. And I may be cynical, but I feel sometimes manufacturers put extra gimmicks in there that will result in failures which help drive sales, particularly when their response when you have a product failure like I described is to tell you to GTF.
mystery3$300 USD for pivot 14s from 2019? (when were they making the dual/WTR versions)
That seems like a lot to me. Did you search the internets thoroughly?
Kid probably just wanted white pivots and had his mommy’s card
You can use bindings for over a decade but I wouldn’t recommend it Lmao
baz25216Really. Hmm, it doesn't matter to me what its called. That would be why I've not bothered to look into it. But I've enough sense to know they're not reliable if I get two pairs of look bindings with the same mechanism in it, and both of them have a similar issue with that mechanism inside 3 months of use in the case of the SPX12, and inside 1 month of use in the case of the pivot 14... So go away and read another binding information sheet.... Its not unlucky if it happens twice, it is poor quality or design of products that result in this. They are also completely unnecessary, which is why I would avoid using them in preference. The more moving parts there are, the more parts there are to fail. A well designed ski binding should be more than capable of lasting a decade without issues. You can still see old dudes going around with vintage kit from the 80s on that works just as well now as it did then. Not all developments are improvements. And I may be cynical, but I feel sometimes manufacturers put extra gimmicks in there that will result in failures which help drive sales, particularly when their response when you have a product failure like I described is to tell you to GTF.
i had a pair from 2013 and they were still fine functionally. they MIGHT have lost some of the elastic travel but it was a very small amount if anything.
