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I wanna get into touring, but also want to hold onto my colored pivots, park values ig. I've heard of systems where u attach a peice to the pivots making it touring compatable. Anyone know what I could do? Or if I should just get the marker barons.
if you have the metal toe (15 or 18 din) you can get cast, but I'm pretty sure you need ski boots with pin inserts for that system
or you can get daymakers, which work with any ski boot. Cast is definitely a more high performance system but is more expensive and harder to get I think they've been selling out fast.
I'm gonna be touring in daymakers with pivot 14s and alpine boots this winter, not the nicest setup but I think it will work for what I'm trying to do
hi_vis360if you have the metal toe (15 or 18 din) you can get cast, but I'm pretty sure you need ski boots with pin inserts for that system
or you can get daymakers, which work with any ski boot. Cast is definitely a more high performance system but is more expensive and harder to get I think they've been selling out fast.
I'm gonna be touring in daymakers with pivot 14s and alpine boots this winter, not the nicest setup but I think it will work for what I'm trying to do
I have used daymakers and I can guarantee you would be happier just investing in another binding if you want to tour, pivots are great and all but you would probably have a better experience if you get something different. The cast system is great if you want to keep your pivots
Any kind of adapter system is pretty subpar from a touring standpoint, but if you absolutely must carry heavy metal up a hill, the Cast system is probably the best of the bunch.
I too am a big proponent of adding additional weight to my pack so I can pretend the highly capable toe pieces I used to get up the hill won’t work on the way down.
cobra_commanderI too am a big proponent of adding additional weight to my pack so I can pretend the highly capable toe pieces I used to get up the hill won’t work on the way down.
i don't really think anyone is making the case that the CAST system is an ultralight setup but i think i'd rather have the CAST than a frame binding that adds weird stack height, weight, and changes the underfoot flex of the ski. if we are staying in the realm of retaining resort/downhill performance. i can't really speak to whether or not the tech toe piece is capable on the downhill but for the person that wants to keep their pivots, or wants a one-quiver setup where touring is a minority of their time on skis, i fail to see how the CAST isn't the ideal solution. even when compared to a binding like the shifts.
cobra_commanderI too am a big proponent of adding additional weight to my pack so I can pretend the highly capable toe pieces I used to get up the hill won’t work on the way down.
what are you comparing to here? it's a little ludicrous to suggest a pin binding for someone charging above a certain riding level. otherwise, frame bindings are probably heavier than the CAST setup
Had my first day on the CAST system yesterday, pleasantly surprised. Took me longer to peel my skins off than it did to do any of the binding transition work. I was pretty nervous about weight at the beginning of the day but the weight on the way up wasn't super noticeable. Unless you have lots of days on a lightweight dedicating touring binding or you're trying to go 5+ KM both ways you'll hardly notice it. I'd never ride a frame binding after trying CAST, IMO they're lighter weight and any extra weight is dampened by having a legit pin toe. Frame toe pieces' shitty range of motion and awkward pivot point makes them feel heavy and slow vs. the CAST which is a little heavy but has traditional pin binding pivot points for a comfortable/effortless uphill motion.
mattytruwhat are you comparing to here? it's a little ludicrous to suggest a pin binding for someone charging above a certain riding level. otherwise, frame bindings are probably heavier than the CAST setup
I guarantee you people have ‘charged harder’ on pin bindings than anyone not skiing at the FWT level.
People seriously underestimate the capability of higher end touring bindings, while severely overestimating both how ‘hard charging’ they ski or their fitness/capacity to haul heavy shit up and over mountainous terrain in a winter environment.
what do you think would have a higher impact on your ability to ski aggressively: a bit of elasticity or the extra fatigue you accrued hauling all that bullshit a few thousand vertical feet?
cobra_commanderwhat do you think would have a higher impact on your ability to ski aggressively: a bit of elasticity or the extra fatigue you accrued hauling all that bullshit a few thousand vertical feet?
the problem with charging on a tech binding (as i understand it) is the unpredictability of the release. it could be 2 or 20 din in no specific scenario.
i think knowing you could release for no good reason makes you ski less agressivley, or if your toes are locked off, knowing you can screw up your legs would also make you ski less agressivley.
either way, you shouldnt be risking your life in the bc unless you have a heli on call. even a broken leg a couple of clicks out could be possibly potentially life threatning. how agressive do you really ski knowing that?
cobra_commanderI guarantee you people have ‘charged harder’ on pin bindings than anyone not skiing at the FWT level.
People seriously underestimate the capability of higher end touring bindings, while severely overestimating both how ‘hard charging’ they ski or their fitness/capacity to haul heavy shit up and over mountainous terrain in a winter environment.
what do you think would have a higher impact on your ability to ski aggressively: a bit of elasticity or the extra fatigue you accrued hauling all that bullshit a few thousand vertical feet?
I didn't mean to aggress upon you, but my basic point is that I, personally, like to be able to do weird shit on my skis wherever I am. I'm not always going out for massive tours; sometimes I just go to hits I like or shorter pitches. I consider myself a clean skier, but there's no chance I would choose to hit jumps, land switch, or butter at speed on an ultra-light binding with no DIN rather than use a pivot.
That said, I am currently pursuing an ultra-light setup for casual usage/long tours/some hut trips. These things don't have to be mutually exclusive, but if I could only have one setup, I would go with the CAST on a relatively light ski.
ajbskithe problem with charging on a tech binding (as i understand it) is the unpredictability of the release.
cobra_commanderI guarantee you people have ‘charged harder’ on pin bindings than anyone not skiing at the FWT level.
People seriously underestimate the capability of higher end touring bindings, while severely overestimating both how ‘hard charging’ they ski or their fitness/capacity to haul heavy shit up and over mountainous terrain in a winter environment.
what do you think would have a higher impact on your ability to ski aggressively: a bit of elasticity or the extra fatigue you accrued hauling all that bullshit a few thousand vertical feet?
Yes, but pin bindings are still not proper bindings when you fall.
When you keep and eye on some of these people who go ham on pins like, Carlson, Wester, Schirmer, alot of times they have toe piece locked. Thats something i really dont want to do in a fear of not releasing when crashing and getting my knee fucked, possibly, in a remote location.
Also you can feel the difference on pin and alpine binding when you are driving the ski on hard snow. I have Diamir Vipec12 on my ZeroG and they are really great if theres soft snow and alot of vertical for the day, but as soon as there is hard snow i lose all my confidence on my skiing because of the binding.
I give you that people, me included, overestimate their charge levels, but if you are not 100% confident on your equipment you cant have the mindset to go for your own level of maximum charge/drops/tricks on the way down compared to having alpine binding.
Having AtocmicTrackers on my RangerFR102(prob will get CAST on that ski next season, frame binding is medival torture device compared to pins), STH14 on Bonafides and Attack16s on park skis, i would always opt in for these 3 and bca treckers if i know i wana have the option on doing some proper skiing and not just touring.
I also have ISO 5355 alpine soles on my current touring boot, so i dont have to think about all WTR and GripWalk bullshit. Anyone know why these are on every single pair of new boots? Whats the advantage over alpine sole when skiing down?
I have dragged my Rangers with frame bindings, 3,5kg + park boot without walk mode to 1400m in Norway and hated every minute of the climb, but when it was time to start cruising, i was care free and confident, tired but confident. I know some of it is in my brain, but so be it, i rather start 1h earlier and go slower if i think theres some skiing to be done.
That said i just bought used light touring setup for bootpacking couloirs and longer touring days. I think 1 ski 1 boot 1 binding quiver is a big joke pushed by markething departments. Same with cycling, hybrid bike is nice if you want to from place a to b but cant do what bmx, mtn and road bike combined can (buy used so you dont have to sell your other kideny).
Just get as many pair of skis/boots/binding as you want/need! Buy used and try as much different gear as you can.
I would definitely buy someone's used setup starting out and maybe adapt some of it to your current skis if you would like, or just use the setup to see how much you like and enjoy it. I see deals all the time on full touring kits that are like less than half the cost of buying new.
I also come from a park background and want to get rowdy AND do not trust touring bindings for the trouble I am looking to get into. I went with the Marker Duke PT 16's because I got a deal on them and didn't already have a set of compatible pivots to go cast with. As mentioned in the great article recently done here on NS about touring bindings, everything is a tradeoff and for you and I, we would prioritize the downhill performance over the uphill performance. I could see myself getting a set of traditional touring bindings with a pinned heel as well for certain missions but for now I am just enjoying being out and skiing.
Lastly, I made the switch to touring freeride boots full time in the park as well and I have loved it. The lightness under foot is sooo nice and it helps get tricks around easier, makes walking around easier (also walk mode) and overall just feels great. I have Dalbello Lupo 120 AX's and coming from a guy who normally wouldn't buy a 3piece boot, I only have good things to say. I bring this up because going forward, if you bought a freeride touring boot as your only boot you could ride everything with it. Sure a normal boot would be more durable but these still have been great to me as a 230lb 6ft Avid lifelong skier and it's still cheaper than buying 2 sets of boots (unless of course you can afford it and don't care). I'm far from a touring expert but I recently got into it and was in a similar spot of not having much gear and trying to figure out what to do. have fun, be safe and please read "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" which is basically the Bible of avy books from what I am told. send me a message and I can help you get ahold of a copy.
vissiI also have ISO 5355 alpine soles on my current touring boot, so i dont have to think about all WTR and GripWalk bullshit. Anyone know why these are on every single pair of new boots? Whats the advantage over alpine sole when skiing down?
I don't think there's an advantage skiing down but I don't think there's a disadvantage, either. so, long term, I would expect more MNC bindings to become the standard in the future, rather than Alpine-only or Grip Walk only. all of this year's Pivots are branded "GW" to be GripWalk compatible but they also are ISO 5355 compatible (presumably without a separate AFD? I didn't buy Pivots this year so I wouldn't know).
