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Is cast worth it?

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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
I want to get a cast setup on my vision 118s. I already have the pivots on a different pair of skis that I would need to remount. Is it worth it? or should I just get dedicated touring bindings?
Oct 30 2021 9:21PM
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gravel
Posts: 5523 - Karma: 42,371
they are dope as fuck. it only works with the pivot 15 and 18. depending on the snow consistency the brake lever sometimes pops up and you have to bend down and reclip it which sucks
Oct 30 2021 10:28PM
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Yukon_Cornelius
Posts: 307 - Karma: 2,660
Yes 200%

when other crossover bindings like shift 13’s cost like 600 bucks just to have issues, and tech bindings can run even more, 300 is a small price to be able to rock pivots on the way down imo.
Oct 31 2021 12:24AM
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elm.
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 13,601
Yes. They're great for 5050 resort, touring. Although the brake lock can be finicky and so can swapping to tour mode if it's icy.

I suggest quiver killers/binding freedom cause pivots are the most expensive part. I've got 3 skis quiver killed with cast.
Oct 31 2021 10:53AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5075 - Karma: 43,049
Cast is totally worth it depending on what you're trying to use those skis for. If you're only touring on them, and you're not in ski movies, or trying to be in ski movies, chances are, you'd be better served by a good tech binding (probably an ATK Freeraider).

If the other options you're looking at are Shifts, Kingpins, Daymakers, or the new Dukes, I'd go Cast in a heartbeat. If the other options you're looking at are tech bindings (Vipecs, Rotations, Ions, etc) then no, go Freeraiders.

If you're mostly skiing inbounds on those skis, and want the option to tour, Cast is great. And if your tours involve a lot of booter builds and cliff hucks, Cast is great.

But, if you're mostly just "backcountry skiing" and not hucking your meat every time you walk uphill on skis, or aren't skiing them inbounds a lot, what's the point? They're heavier, and slightly more finicky than good tech bindings, and take much longer to transition. Cast is really freaking awesome for the people that need it. But you've gotta have a realistic conversation with yourself about whether you fall into that category.
Oct 31 2021 11:37AM
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SlitherySnake
Posts: 1168 - Karma: 8,616
honestly i’d go with daymakers since you don’t have to mess with swapping bindings over at all

unless weight is a concern for you if you’re doing long tours

**This post was edited on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:28:09pm
Oct 31 2021 12:25PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10585 - Karma: 11,216
gravelthey are dope as fuck. it only works with the pivot 15 and 18. depending on the snow consistency the brake lever sometimes pops up and you have to bend down and reclip it which sucks


One big tip I can give for anyone for the brake lever issue is making sure you lean down close to the heel and hear an audible click noise. The lip of the brake retainer wraps around the brake drum and sometimes it's easy to think it's all the way engaged when it just needs an extra little push.
Oct 31 2021 1:15PM
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gravel
Posts: 5523 - Karma: 42,371
.nastyOne big tip I can give for anyone for the brake lever issue is making sure you lean down close to the heel and hear an audible click noise. The lip of the brake retainer wraps around the brake drum and sometimes it's easy to think it's all the way engaged when it just needs an extra little push.


yeah i noticed that as well, but it still occastionally pops back up even when it's fully clipped down. i think it just really depends on the snow consistency and how easy it is for the snow to infiltrate
Oct 31 2021 1:16PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10585 - Karma: 11,216
SlitherySnakehonestly i’d go with daymakers since you don’t have to mess with swapping bindings over at all

unless weight is a concern for you if you’re doing long tours

**This post was edited on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:28:09pm


Lugging those heavy things around and taking them on and off your bindings is much more invasive than simply changing the toe piece on Cast. Not a fan of daymakers personally.
Oct 31 2021 1:16PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10585 - Karma: 11,216
gravelyeah i noticed that as well, but it still occastionally pops back up even when it's fully clipped down. i think it just really depends on the snow consistency and how easy it is for the snow to infiltrate

Also depends on how it's mounted. I've seen some of the riser/brake retainer pieces get mounted a mm or two too forward of the heel baseplate and it causes a lot of issues. I don't even use the template Cast provides, I just shove it flush against the heel baseplate and use a punch to mark where to drill.
Oct 31 2021 1:41PM
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anders_a
Posts: 1680 - Karma: 5,603
vision 118 is a superlight ski, pivot metal is super heavy though, just have that in mind.
Oct 31 2021 2:08PM
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piss.boy
Posts: 1491 - Karma: 10,621
How do they work? I saw a picture and it has pins? Do you have to switch boots?
Oct 31 2021 3:05PM
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gravel
Posts: 5523 - Karma: 42,371
my own thoughts about the weight thing, unless you’re into some crazy skimo or are really objective driven, i don’t know why you need ultralight and i don’t know why you need to shave like 1 or 2 minutes off your transition time. it’s a better workout to have to carry a few extra ounces, like weight training lmao. it isn’t as efficient but i hardly think that matters depending on your values and goals with backcountry. personal priorities. plus it’s really nice to have a ski you can ski full confidence at both a resort or in the backcountry, as a dedicated touring setup is pretty niche unless touring is all you do.
Oct 31 2021 3:07PM
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animator
Posts: 4557 - Karma: 26,301
anders_avision 118 is a superlight ski, pivot metal is super heavy though, just have that in mind.


I wouldn’t call it super light, it’s not a skimo ski
Oct 31 2021 6:28PM
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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
SlitherySnakehonestly i’d go with daymakers since you don’t have to mess with swapping bindings over at all

unless weight is a concern for you if you’re doing long tours

**This post was edited on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:28:09pm

I had daymakers and they were great for short tours but I'm looking for more consistent touring
Oct 31 2021 6:29PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1630 - Karma: 10,939
cydwhitCast is totally worth it depending on what you're trying to use those skis for. If you're only touring on them, and you're not in ski movies, or trying to be in ski movies, chances are, you'd be better served by a good tech binding (probably an ATK Freeraider).

If the other options you're looking at are Shifts, Kingpins, Daymakers, or the new Dukes, I'd go Cast in a heartbeat. If the other options you're looking at are tech bindings (Vipecs, Rotations, Ions, etc) then no, go Freeraiders.

If you're mostly skiing inbounds on those skis, and want the option to tour, Cast is great. And if your tours involve a lot of booter builds and cliff hucks, Cast is great.

But, if you're mostly just "backcountry skiing" and not hucking your meat every time you walk uphill on skis, or aren't skiing them inbounds a lot, what's the point? They're heavier, and slightly more finicky than good tech bindings, and take much longer to transition. Cast is really freaking awesome for the people that need it. But you've gotta have a realistic conversation with yourself about whether you fall into that category.


Interesting. So it sounds like you're saying that CAST system sort of negates need for burlier tech bindings like Kingpins and Tectons? I've always sort of lumped touring bindings in my head into three categories: Light (ATK, Vipec, Ion), Burly pins (Kingpins, Tectons), and DIN (Shift, CAST). Are you just writing off the inbetweeners? So my touring skis should get mounted with a solid lightweight binding exclusively? I've been a Kingpin fan for a while but I'll probably buy ATK's next.
Oct 31 2021 9:04PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5075 - Karma: 43,049
-eREKTion-Interesting. So it sounds like you're saying that CAST system sort of negates need for burlier tech bindings like Kingpins and Tectons? I've always sort of lumped touring bindings in my head into three categories: Light (ATK, Vipec, Ion), Burly pins (Kingpins, Tectons), and DIN (Shift, CAST). Are you just writing off the inbetweeners? So my touring skis should get mounted with a solid lightweight binding exclusively? I've been a Kingpin fan for a while but I'll probably buy ATK's next.

Yeah. Sorta. I thought of touring bindings the same way for a long time, but IMO, and I know others in this thread will disagree, the combo of ATK’s, and cast/shift/dukes killed the kingpin and Techton for me. I just don’t think either of those bindings offers enough of an upgrade in either performance or safety to justify their weight. I trust the Freeraider to stay on when it should, and it delivers power to the ski well. So why take the big weight penalty to ski a kingpin or techton when they do the same thing?

Shift/Duke PT/cast on the other hand both stay on like they should, and come off like they should. For much of my backcountry skiing, I’m most worried about my skis staying on, I don’t want to kick a shoe someplace consequential. But, sometimes I like to build jumps and fall off cliffs, and when I’m doing that, I want my bindings to release instead of tearing my knees apart. The heavy DIN bindings are great for that. Kingpin and and Techton are not necessarily.

I used to make the “who cares about weight/efficiency” argument, and I still get it, but two main things have motivated me to go lighter and more efficient.

1). The lighter/more efficient my gear is (to a point) the more likely I am to go back up for another lap. For me (maybe not for everyone else ) more efficient gear = more skiing for Cy. Big win.

2) Efficiency really matters in a companion rescue situation. If I’m trying to get back up to dig out a homie, I want to be able to transition very quickly and get up there to help. I’ve had a couple of issues with some of the burlier options out there being really hard to transition/not working that well in walk mode, and if I’m having trouble transitioning on a mellow tour, there’s no way I’m going to do it well when the adrenalin is pumping.



Binding choice conversations are my favorite conversations because they’re so nuanced.
Oct 31 2021 9:26PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1630 - Karma: 10,939
cydwhitYeah. Sorta. I thought of touring bindings the same way for a long time, but IMO, and I know others in this thread will disagree, the combo of ATK’s, and cast/shift/dukes killed the kingpin and Techton for me. I just don’t think either of those bindings offers enough of an upgrade in either performance or safety to justify their weight. I trust the Freeraider to stay on when it should, and it delivers power to the ski well. So why take the big weight penalty to ski a kingpin or techton when they do the same thing?

Shift/Duke PT/cast on the other hand both stay on like they should, and come off like they should. For much of my backcountry skiing, I’m most worried about my skis staying on, I don’t want to kick a shoe someplace consequential. But, sometimes I like to build jumps and fall off cliffs, and when I’m doing that, I want my bindings to release instead of tearing my knees apart. The heavy DIN bindings are great for that. Kingpin and and Techton are not necessarily.

I used to make the “who cares about weight/efficiency” argument, and I still get it, but two main things have motivated me to go lighter and more efficient.

1). The lighter/more efficient my gear is (to a point) the more likely I am to go back up for another lap. For me (maybe not for everyone else ) more efficient gear = more skiing for Cy. Big win.

2) Efficiency really matters in a companion rescue situation. If I’m trying to get back up to dig out a homie, I want to be able to transition very quickly and get up there to help. I’ve had a couple of issues with some of the burlier options out there being really hard to transition/not working that well in walk mode, and if I’m having trouble transitioning on a mellow tour, there’s no way I’m going to do it well when the adrenalin is pumping.



Binding choice conversations are my favorite conversations because they’re so nuanced.


Thanks for all this, dude. I've never owned a really light-weight set up so maybe it's just time to take the plunge and see what I've been missing.
Oct 31 2021 9:32PM
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tcurle
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 5,290
Yes, and if you have pivot 18's already it's the cheapest touring binding.

*anything cheaper isn't a touring bindings and sucks.
Nov 1 2021 1:44PM
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gravel
Posts: 5523 - Karma: 42,371
cydwhitEfficiency really matters in a companion rescue situation


great point
Nov 1 2021 2:05PM
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Cast
Posts: 34 - Karma: 297
.nastyOne big tip I can give for anyone for the brake lever issue is making sure you lean down close to the heel and hear an audible click noise. The lip of the brake retainer wraps around the brake drum and sometimes it's easy to think it's all the way engaged when it just needs an extra little push.


This. If they're mounted half decent and fully engaged I rarely have them flip down. Only sometimes when setting a skin track in the deep.
Nov 2 2021 2:00PM
3 0
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12534 - Karma: 116,689
tcurleYes, and if you have pivot 18's already it's the cheapest touring binding.

*anything cheaper isn't a touring bindings and sucks.


Clearly you're new to skiing.

Nov 2 2021 2:49PM
7 0
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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
CastThis. If they're mounted half decent and fully engaged I rarely have them flip down. Only sometimes when setting a skin track in the deep.

Yo glad to have attracted the higher ups with my thread. When you say that cast ships by early December is that still true?
Nov 2 2021 6:47PM
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Cast
Posts: 34 - Karma: 297
batskinatskiYo glad to have attracted the higher ups with my thread. When you say that cast ships by early December is that still true?


Yessir. Also to answer the original question, yes totally worth it.
Nov 2 2021 9:25PM
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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
CastYessir. Also to answer the original question, yes totally worth it.

Update: Got cast, sick as fuck. However people are saying that I should remove the brakes on my pivots. Is that a good idea? If so, how will my skis stay on the hill if they come off?
Jan 9 2022 5:41PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4235 - Karma: 10,716
nathanielbatsonHowever people are saying that I should remove the brakes on my pivots. Is that a good idea?

Absolutely do not do this.
Jan 9 2022 6:26PM
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animator
Posts: 4557 - Karma: 26,301
hot.pocketAbsolutely do not do this.


LMFAO I’ve never heard this, don’t do that or you’ll spear someone with your ski if you fall like the Mashed Potatoes skit
Jan 9 2022 8:31PM
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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
hot.pocketAbsolutely do not do this.

Haha I always knew my friend was completely off his shit. I wouldnt dream of doing it myself but he insisted lol. Not to mention his reason was because the skins wouldnt fit properly. Maybe cut. your. skins. to. your. ski. width.

**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:33:57pm
Jan 11 2022 3:30PM
1 0
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4235 - Karma: 10,716
nathanielbatsonHaha I always knew my friend was completely off his shit. I wouldnt dream of doing it myself but he insisted lol. Not to mention his reason was because the skins wouldnt fit properly. Maybe cut. your. skins. to. your. ski. width.

**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:33:57pm


He runs skins wider than his skis? Does he not lock his brakes up during touring? Talk some sense into the guy.
Jan 11 2022 3:37PM
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stonedbrian
Posts: 171 - Karma: 957
hot.pocketHe runs skins wider than his skis? Does he not lock his brakes up during touring? Talk some sense into the guy.


lost cause I'm afraid
Jan 11 2022 9:50PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
I'm on the same page man. I've been ski touring for over a decade and I totally bought into the "I don't care about weight on the up, I'm all about the down" mentality.

I went from frame bindings to MFD all-times to Dynafit Beast 16s and day-wreckers all because I believed traditional pin bindings were useless for what I wanted to ski.

I used to struggle on big objective days, lugging around a super heavy powder setup that I made work for touring, I didn't realize how dumb I was being.

This year I finally went all in and got some Marker Alpinist bindings, Technica Zero G Pro tour boots, and some Movement Alp Tracks 106 carbon skis and some 120 waisted WhiteDot Ragnarok Asym skis.

The difference is mind boggling. The alpinist binding skis great, it's functionally better than all the other touring solutions I tried, I can still ski exactly how I want to, still jump off stuff and hit pillows with no issues. I feel like I've been lied to the last 10 years, all this marketing to try and sell us heavier gear was for nothing. IMO if you're not spinning over 360 or hucking off >30 foot cliffs most days you don't need to lug around that extra weight.

The best part for me about this, is now I feel like I can tour all day. I'm smiling and talking on the way up instead of being out of breath, I'm enjoying more of my time out there and I'm getting more experience by being out there for longer and having the confidence to go further.
cydwhitYeah. Sorta. I thought of touring bindings the same way for a long time, but IMO, and I know others in this thread will disagree, the combo of ATK’s, and cast/shift/dukes killed the kingpin and Techton for me. I just don’t think either of those bindings offers enough of an upgrade in either performance or safety to justify their weight. I trust the Freeraider to stay on when it should, and it delivers power to the ski well. So why take the big weight penalty to ski a kingpin or techton when they do the same thing?

Shift/Duke PT/cast on the other hand both stay on like they should, and come off like they should. For much of my backcountry skiing, I’m most worried about my skis staying on, I don’t want to kick a shoe someplace consequential. But, sometimes I like to build jumps and fall off cliffs, and when I’m doing that, I want my bindings to release instead of tearing my knees apart. The heavy DIN bindings are great for that. Kingpin and and Techton are not necessarily.

I used to make the “who cares about weight/efficiency” argument, and I still get it, but two main things have motivated me to go lighter and more efficient.

1). The lighter/more efficient my gear is (to a point) the more likely I am to go back up for another lap. For me (maybe not for everyone else ) more efficient gear = more skiing for Cy. Big win.

2) Efficiency really matters in a companion rescue situation. If I’m trying to get back up to dig out a homie, I want to be able to transition very quickly and get up there to help. I’ve had a couple of issues with some of the burlier options out there being really hard to transition/not working that well in walk mode, and if I’m having trouble transitioning on a mellow tour, there’s no way I’m going to do it well when the adrenalin is pumping.



Binding choice conversations are my favorite conversations because they’re so nuanced.
Jan 12 2022 6:04AM
4 0
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8800 - Karma: 6,308
Hey all, one season in on my JJ UL's with cast system. Day 1 at whistler is tomorrow and I am dusting off the skis and noticed one toe piece has a good bit of play. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV
Nov 24 2022 11:46PM
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deelonmusk
Posts: 234 - Karma: 1,414
VT_scratchHey all, one season in on my JJ UL's with cast system. Day 1 at whistler is tomorrow and I am dusting off the skis and noticed one toe piece has a good bit of play. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV


Are you sure this wasn't there when you first mounted the setup? If any of the 4 toe screws are a bit off, it can cause a little bit of play.
Nov 25 2022 12:29AM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8800 - Karma: 6,308
deelonmuskAre you sure this wasn't there when you first mounted the setup? If any of the 4 toe screws are a bit off, it can cause a little bit of play.


Hmmm I wish I had a video of the setup right after it was mounted. I don't recall. I do remember this at the end of last season but I don't recall the beginning.
Nov 25 2022 12:38AM
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cndr
Posts: 160 - Karma: 856
VT_scratchHey all, one season in on my JJ UL's with cast system. Day 1 at whistler is tomorrow and I am dusting off the skis and noticed one toe piece has a good bit of play. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV


Mine do that too and I've never had any problems. As long as it's solid when the boot is in you should be good to go. There was a thread about a month ago regarding the tech toe pieces but also some reassurance for the alpine wiggle as well.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/932552/Cast-system-toe-play--
Nov 25 2022 11:15PM
1 0
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8800 - Karma: 6,308
VT_scratchHey all, one season in on my JJ UL's with cast system. Day 1 at whistler is tomorrow and I am dusting off the skis and noticed one toe piece has a good bit of play. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV


Here's a reply from CAST. TLDR; Nothing to worry about.

"Hey Max,

Thanks for reaching out on this matter. First off make sure the alpine toe is staying locked onto the ski. If it is staying locked ....The little bit of play you are seeing in the Alpine toe comes from the lock. I will try and explain this the best I can. We had to make the locks a little looser two years ago. The reason we did this is due to the mount. It was very hard for people to get the mount 100% correct/ all 8 toe screws perfectly straight. If the lock was tighter and the mount was not a 100% perfect the toes would have trouble locking into the mechanism causing them to fall off. We ended up making the locks a little looser so that if the mount was a little off the alpine toe would still lock on. So, if you are getting a little bit of wiggle in the toe that is pretty normal. That little bit of wiggle will go away when a boot is engaged. I describe it kind of like a demo binding. There is a little bit of wiggle until a boot is engaged. You should check to make sure the alpine toe stays locked on in case of a fall, then we are all good.

Another way to look at this is if you are mounting the binding well/good there will be a little bit of wiggle in the toe. The bindings that don't have much or any wiggle is due to one of the toe screws not being straight and it snugs it up. So, in a way a little bit of wiggle is good.


Let me know if you have any other questions about this?"
Nov 29 2022 8:33PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
CastYessir. Also to answer the original question, yes totally worth it.

We mount a hell of a lot of these
dont see many problems or issues
thanks fer hookin up the L9 shop rats
stoked to git out n give em a whirl

Dec 4 2022 9:19AM
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