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My time In Colorado was in Leadville in 05 -,06ish. Loved that town back then. But growing up in Oregon and skiing hood. The whole scene was so different in Colorado. People were more agro. I was at a ski shop talking to a worker and he told me "if you don't have all your 270s on nobody thinks you are the shit ". I just couldn't fathom that kind of mentality. I think I just laughed. I remember so many kids from fucking Pittsburgh who couldn't handle their fucking liquor and wanting to fight.
I loved it and had so much fun. But at the end of the day I knew I was never gonna want to fully commit to that Colorado thing
DingoSeanIn Tahoe its more like, this resentment from the tourist crowd that once in a while has some bad eggs. Most of the time, I would say people coming up are perfectly respectful and care about the area, but every now and then there are those who drive up, and act like their dollar is the only reason why anything exists in Tahoe to begin with.
I cannot tell you how many jerks from hoity-toity bay area communes like Mill Valley or Danville, or Orinda that would come up, bring some Karen-ass entitled attitude, and act like assholes to me, my employees, my colleagues and my friends. Shit, I even remember some bay area news anchor who I was serving, who absolutely lost his fucking mind when a mistake happened on his order and he had to wait an extra 5-10 minutes. Like full childish meltdown it was embarrassing.
Really, the problem isn't so much that Tahoe is full of bitter locals who hate outsiders (although there definitely are those - for a plethora of reasons), but more that they are tired of the same entitled scumbags everyone else in the bay area also hates
Exactly. Everyone hates those assholes. I flipped my shit when I learned the average home in Danville goes for $2 million. 3 times as much as my place in San Leandro? Who the fuck would pay that much to live somewhere so boring? Are you that scared of black people you can't live in Piedmont like a respectable rich person? There's like, a total of 6 black people in Danville, and one of them is E-40. Shit is weird in this day and age. Like it's not enough to be on the top of the mountain looking down at Oakland, you gotta put a whole ass mountain range between you and Oakland.
betzExactly. Everyone hates those assholes. I flipped my shit when I learned the average home in Danville goes for $2 million. 3 times as much as my place in San Leandro? Who the fuck would pay that much to live somewhere so boring? Are you that scared of black people you can't live in Piedmont like a respectable rich person? There's like, a total of 6 black people in Danville, and one of them is E-40. Shit is weird in this day and age. Like it's not enough to be on the top of the mountain looking down at Oakland, you gotta put a whole ass mountain range between you and Oakland.
Haha you so totally get it, and I appreciate that.
I'm from the Delta originally, and I have never gotten along with 24/680 corridor folks... Many of them just have no real exposure to the real diversity you can find in the Bay Area. From LaMOrinda to Walnut Creek and down all the way past Dublin, its just one big old white ass bedroom community. Sure, the majority of the folks there are pretty good people, and in most cases even the 'bad' ones are usually not what I'd call antagonistically racist, but theyre definitely the types to lock the doors if they see a POC person walking by.. if anything, they certainly don't have much time for 'The Poors' or service industry types.
The worse of the lot end up in Tahoe on weekend ski trips, snapping their fingers at 'the help' while the servers and bartenders are obviously short staffed (usually because not enough people can afford to live up there). Seriously, the amount of entitled jerks from those areas is just really bad.
My dad is from Oakland, and yeah, he is from up on the hill in Crestmont, but he also went to Bishop Odowd as did my Uncles... They all walked the streets of what's known as East Oakland. 98th av from 580 to San Leandro was his real neighborhood - there's no way he would ever do the kinda nonsense that I have seen from some of the entitled ass bay area folks who come to Tahoe and expect to get their toes sucked.
They def exploit J1s because they know this. I was friends with many J1s and a lot of them were loaded. It was just a thing to spend a summer skiing in America and working. This shit pisses me off too. It’s like the same thing that’s happening across the country as a whole. My parents keep saying “people don’t want to work because unemployment benefits” and I tell them “no, it’s not that. It’s that these places are paying a horrible wage. Also, they are treated like shit and looked down upon. So this chance to actually sit back and reflect has allowed people to realize they hate those jobs and pursue employment elsewhere/go back to school/work on themselves.” We’ve got some serious issues in this country that are unsustainable and coming to a head. We can’t go on like this.
Funny story: when I was working in a shop in Australia, they hired a new guy from Argentina. I thought “damn I’ve met this guy before”. Took a few weeks but we eventually realized over beers that we HAD met in Tahoe 3 years earlier. We were pursuing the same girl at a bar (the grid) one night haha Crazy how life be.
theabortionatorLiving on the mountain at Crystal. Spend very little time down there. I can get along with anyone and avoid getting political with some of those types and just have a beer if I'm down there.
Caution: rant inbound
Yeah it's fucked. That's why I moved to WA. People at the ski resorts bitching that locals don't want to work while paying less than fucking taco bell. Like yeah, I'm trying to compete in this insane housing market for a skilled job to make less than the base sticker price for fast food. Fuck those people in the ski industry and I hope them and their mountains eat shit.
Sucks J1's are coming back. I love visas and travel but I hate the way the ski industry exploits that labor force. I hope the ski industry gets fucked over eventually. It fully would deserve it.
I hate seeing mountains go under but the mountains in those markets exploiting people should eat shit and go under tomorrow. It sucks to say but that's how I feel. It's crazy how low some of these mountains pay in resort towns where housing is a crisis and every fast food place offers a significant raise. And then these pieces of shit in marketing say that "the locals just don't want to work and that's why we have to hire J1's". Like yeah, the locals want to be able to pay rent and buy groceries in the same month. Many J1's just want the visa and money doesn't matter. They come to be in America. I wish that visa was restricted more. The way the ski industry exploits it is terrible. Once again I hope those mtns eat shit and fold.
Look at fast food the last 5 years, especially the last 2 years. Any place you drive by is hiring for a legit wage. The ski industry can fuck off. All those scumbag mountains paying garbage wages should go under.
Currently am working for a mountain that pays well and has cheap employee housing, but the ski industry is fucked. I get sad seeing places fold, but that's the only way anyone learns. If fast food is going to pay more than skill operators I hope those places eat shit and fold. They fully deserve it, and nobody should feel bad.
Sorry, rant about obviously terrible $$$ and exploitation of foreign workers to avoid paying reasonable wages while pretending to be offering a service. Those ski areas are trash and should eat shit and fold.
I think we’d all do a lot better with a daily reminder that even if we were born in a city or state, our own ancestors moved there also at some point. Where do we draw the line at who’s really a local? 2 generations removed? 5?
betzAll of this completely true, though it's more of a problem with vacation rentals than it is outsiders coming to Tahoe. Once I was on a chairlift with a local, an older lady who coached a kids ski team. I was having a good conversation with her and her friends until she asked me where I was from, I said the bay area and she literally ignored me for the rest of the ride. Like wouldn't acknowledge me and just carried on like I wasn't there. This was probably about 3 years back at Sierra. Like, a broad hatred of all people from a certain area never makes sense to me. You start hating on them when it's clear they're the part of the problem lol.
And as for Colorado I think many people in Tahoe actually have to live that outdoors life, whether they like it or not. So there is less vibes Instagram-y "outdoors" people. Not nearly as pampered as living in a big city like Denver. In Tahoe you have to shovel/blow several feet of snow out of your driveway every year.. in Denver you only have to shovel snow regularly if your driveway faces the wrong direction lol.
DesertStixI think we’d all do a lot better with a daily reminder that even if we were born in a city or state, our own ancestors moved there also at some point. Where do we draw the line at who’s really a local? 2 generations removed? 5?
I generally say youre a local if youre really a part of the community whether from a cultural standpoint, or an effort standpoint... either you were raised in or have lived someplace long enough and know most of the people, or youre someone who moved to town, and made friends not only with your neighbours or the guys at the local pub, but actually involved yourself in the community whether through events or organizations or volunteered for things.
DingoSeanI generally say youre a local if youre really a part of the community whether from a cultural standpoint, or an effort standpoint... either you were raised in or have lived someplace long enough and know most of the people, or youre someone who moved to town, and made friends not only with your neighbours or the guys at the local pub, but actually involved yourself in the community whether through events or organizations or volunteered for things.
DingoSeanAs someone who lived for a long time in Truckee, and also lived on the Front Range, I would say they are very different...
Truckee/Tahoe is more like how people feel in Aspen or maybe Silverthorne or Dillon or Breckenridge or something... big city people coming up and flooding everything and not really respecting locals or the natural environment. Tahoe has always been a place where people from the Bay Area and elsewhere come up for recreation. Everyone in the basin recognizes that much.
The newer problem that ticks off locals is more that people who have lived in Truckee or Tahoe for a long time and have businesses built or who have established themselves, are being completely priced out of living at an absurd rate due to influx of 2nd home buying for short-term rentals. The area has always been known for 2nd homes, but nowadays its even worse with people buying a 2nd home (or several) wholly as investment property first and foremost - the same thing is happening in any ski town, but with Tahoe being a world class summer destination as well, it is a little exacerbated by the fact that they can rent it out for both new years and 4th of July and make bank, and then just let it sit empty the rest of the time. Its basically out of towners, only renting to other out of towners. It wasn't always like that. 10 years ago when I first moved there, it wasn't like that. I paid 400$ for rent in a modest shared house. I had plenty of options for long-term rentals, too. The rent would now be 1200$ for that room simply because of market rate, and I would be lucky to be chosen to live there.
There are thousands of empty homes, and very few available for long-term rental or purchase to locals. The regional and local powers that be don't cater to the people that vote for them, but rather the single-family developments that are willing to pay big dollars. It's the same problem in any ski town, but Tahoe is being squeezed really hard, and the people are pretty done with it. I myself was pretty established there for a long time, but left once I saw the writing on the wall.
This is a really, really good explanation of the housing crisis going on in Tahoe right now.
There are very few high-paying jobs there are in the Basin. Most high-paying jobs are small tech firms that moved their offices up from the Bay. A lack of high-paying jobs is common with a lot of mountain communities, but there are some additional geographic factors that affect Tahoe.
You explained the first issue with short-term rentals pricing people out. Four hours to the east is one of the largest, highest-earning metro areas in the country. These are hundreds of thousands of people with excess funds looking to recreate. Tahoe is their first choice. It's easy for them to price out locals with their fuck-you tech money. With how airbnb and vrbo created their business models, second homes have become investments that pay for themselves. Who wouldn't buy a sweet vacation home that paid its own mortgage? When there are no legal barriers, it only makes sense to buy when you can afford the down payment.
Second, 30-45 minutes to the east is Reno and Carson. They're more affordable communities, which means workers are willing to work for less pay since their living expenses aren't as high. Minimum wage in CA is almost twice the minimum wage in Nevada. There's a daily commute of hundreds of workers over Spooner Summit each day to fill the minimum wage service jobs in South Lake. The same thing happens for Truckee and North Lake with workers living in Reno on an even larger scale. If a business can fill their positions with out-of-towners, where's the pressure to increase pay to support locals?
Third, politics have been painfully slow to react. North Lake is in Placer County, which contains wealthy, conservative suburbs of Sacramento. These people love taking advantage of cheap rentals 2 hours up the hill. They don't live in the Basin, so they aren't seeing the effects of the crisis. Why would they vote to make their weekend getaways more expensive? The congressional district for the whole lake has the same issue. Sac suburbanites make legislative decisions for the whole region. Smaller, local politics feel pressured to protect the tourism industry that supports the Basin, and haven't supported local workers as much as they need to.
All of this travel and commuting increases vehicle traffic and puts further strain on the environment of the Basin. It's created an atmosphere that's hostile towards Bay Area travelers. Tahoe and its community is being taken advantage of and it's not reaping the benefits like it should. They need to tax the shit out of these rentals to the point where it discourages second home buying. If you buy a home and use it like a hotel, it should be taxed like a hotel. They need to subsidize affordable housing and cater less towards the tech billionaires who visit once a year and build fugly lakefront mansions.
DingoSeanHaha you so totally get it, and I appreciate that.
I'm from the Delta originally, and I have never gotten along with 24/680 corridor folks... Many of them just have no real exposure to the real diversity you can find in the Bay Area. From LaMOrinda to Walnut Creek and down all the way past Dublin, its just one big old white ass bedroom community. Sure, the majority of the folks there are pretty good people, and in most cases even the 'bad' ones are usually not what I'd call antagonistically racist, but theyre definitely the types to lock the doors if they see a POC person walking by.. if anything, they certainly don't have much time for 'The Poors' or service industry types.
The worse of the lot end up in Tahoe on weekend ski trips, snapping their fingers at 'the help' while the servers and bartenders are obviously short staffed (usually because not enough people can afford to live up there). Seriously, the amount of entitled jerks from those areas is just really bad.
My dad is from Oakland, and yeah, he is from up on the hill in Crestmont, but he also went to Bishop Odowd as did my Uncles... They all walked the streets of what's known as East Oakland. 98th av from 580 to San Leandro was his real neighborhood - there's no way he would ever do the kinda nonsense that I have seen from some of the entitled ass bay area folks who come to Tahoe and expect to get their toes sucked.
Small world. My mom is from Caballo hills/ eastmont, went to middle school down in east Oakland but high school at Skyline high. She might have grown up to be a Karen if she hadn't grown up there haha.
"The help" and "the poor's". Blows my mind people say this or think that way. But I've heard it. Agreed that some people just live in places like Danville because they have the financial means and the schools are great etc. But it's also a place to cultivate entitlement. And unfortunately, skiing is still rich person sport in many ways, which means they'll come to Tahoe. Well, not exclusively a rich person sport, as many of us poor degenerates know. But shit, there's a reason Martis Camp exists... And they even have their own chairlift. Imagine living in a neighborhood with a chairlift named after your neighborhood dedicated to your neighborhood, for one of the biggest most posh resorts in Tahoe.
DesertStixI think we’d all do a lot better with a daily reminder that even if we were born in a city or state, our own ancestors moved there also at some point. Where do we draw the line at who’s really a local? 2 generations removed? 5?
DingoSeanI generally say youre a local if youre really a part of the community whether from a cultural standpoint, or an effort standpoint... either you were raised in or have lived someplace long enough and know most of the people, or youre someone who moved to town, and made friends not only with your neighbours or the guys at the local pub, but actually involved yourself in the community whether through events or organizations or volunteered for things.
It's exactly this. Well, any of those things, in my opinion. You don't have to live somewhere your whole life to be a local. But if you're trying to be a part of the community.. well it's not long before you're a part of the community. If you just live there and hate on outsiders, well that's pretty much it. You a hater.
BrandoComandoFour hours to the east is one of the largest, highest-earning metro areas in the country. These are hundreds of thousands of people with excess funds looking to recreate.
betzBut shit, there's a reason Martis Camp exists... And they even have their own chairlift. Imagine living in a neighborhood with a chairlift named after your neighborhood dedicated to your neighborhood, for one of the biggest most posh resorts in Tahoe.
It's so wild that Martis Camp has their own private lodge and their own chairlift at Northstar. The Ritz Carlton at Northstar doesn't even have its own chairlift. Goes to show how much money is in Martis Camp
BrandoComandoIt's so wild that Martis Camp has their own private lodge and their own chairlift at Northstar. The Ritz Carlton at Northstar doesn't even have its own chairlift. Goes to show how much money is in Martis Camp
BrandoComandoThis is a really, really good explanation of the housing crisis going on in Tahoe right now.
There are very few high-paying jobs there are in the Basin. Most high-paying jobs are small tech firms that moved their offices up from the Bay. A lack of high-paying jobs is common with a lot of mountain communities, but there are some additional geographic factors that affect Tahoe.
You explained the first issue with short-term rentals pricing people out. Four hours to the east is one of the largest, highest-earning metro areas in the country. These are hundreds of thousands of people with excess funds looking to recreate. Tahoe is their first choice. It's easy for them to price out locals with their fuck-you tech money. With how airbnb and vrbo created their business models, second homes have become investments that pay for themselves. Who wouldn't buy a sweet vacation home that paid its own mortgage? When there are no legal barriers, it only makes sense to buy when you can afford the down payment.
Second, 30-45 minutes to the east is Reno and Carson. They're more affordable communities, which means workers are willing to work for less pay since their living expenses aren't as high. Minimum wage in CA is almost twice the minimum wage in Nevada. There's a daily commute of hundreds of workers over Spooner Summit each day to fill the minimum wage service jobs in South Lake. The same thing happens for Truckee and North Lake with workers living in Reno on an even larger scale. If a business can fill their positions with out-of-towners, where's the pressure to increase pay to support locals?
Third, politics have been painfully slow to react. North Lake is in Placer County, which contains wealthy, conservative suburbs of Sacramento. These people love taking advantage of cheap rentals 2 hours up the hill. They don't live in the Basin, so they aren't seeing the effects of the crisis. Why would they vote to make their weekend getaways more expensive? The congressional district for the whole lake has the same issue. Sac suburbanites make legislative decisions for the whole region. Smaller, local politics feel pressured to protect the tourism industry that supports the Basin, and haven't supported local workers as much as they need to.
All of this travel and commuting increases vehicle traffic and puts further strain on the environment of the Basin. It's created an atmosphere that's hostile towards Bay Area travelers. Tahoe and its community is being taken advantage of and it's not reaping the benefits like it should. They need to tax the shit out of these rentals to the point where it discourages second home buying. If you buy a home and use it like a hotel, it should be taxed like a hotel. They need to subsidize affordable housing and cater less towards the tech billionaires who visit once a year and build fugly lakefront mansions.
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it, however... note that North Lake Tahoe is a mess of multiple counties. You have Placer County, yes, but you also have Nevada County which makes up most of Truckee, so places that are served by people who live locally, such as Olympic Valley, Tahoe City and the west side of the lake are more beholden to shit happening in Auburn than Truckee 10 miles away. Getting low-income developments approved is a total mess and municipal governments don't have the power to flex on the county.
El Dorado County where Southlake is has the same problem as Placer County.. the powers that be are down the road a few hours and the largest pop. center is El Dorado Hills, which is full of a bunch of white suburbanites who don't give a fuck any more than their Placer County contemporaries in Rocklin and Roseville.
There's always talk about getting something like a basin-wide bus system going, similar to what you have in Aspen/Carbondale or other ski town areas, however, good luck getting that done with 3 different California Counties, 3 different Nevada Counties, 2 sets of state laws, and and overwhelming ambivalence from the powers that be to care about the locals about public transportation. Doing anything Basin-wide is absolutely impossible at this time. The people in Tahoe feel like they are not being listened to by anyone for any of their legitimate concerns, and Its making things severely strained for the communities there.
It's just such a frustrating situation... like you said, the travel and commuting in the basin is putting a severe strain on the environment, but also takes a huge toll on the locals. I actually used to hate powder days, especially on weekends because I would have to pay 4 bucks for a gallon of gas in my 10 year old car to drive 13 miles from truckee to olympic valley every day in stop and go traffic - it would take me a god damn hour in both directions, and all to make far less than I deserved for my labour and expertise.
I was able to eventually get a job within the confines of Truckee itself so I didnt have to go through the 89 gauntlet, and was being paid an acceptable amount, but the problem ultimately came down to housing, and I just couldnt find anything locally at the time. It was a pretty whack situation so I bolted the country again.
There’s a private community with their own lodge and lift at north star? That’s fckin wild
betzSmall world. My mom is from Caballo hills/ eastmont, went to middle school down in east Oakland but high school at Skyline high. She might have grown up to be a Karen if she hadn't grown up there haha.
"The help" and "the poor's". Blows my mind people say this or think that way. But I've heard it. Agreed that some people just live in places like Danville because they have the financial means and the schools are great etc. But it's also a place to cultivate entitlement. And unfortunately, skiing is still rich person sport in many ways, which means they'll come to Tahoe. Well, not exclusively a rich person sport, as many of us poor degenerates know. But shit, there's a reason Martis Camp exists... And they even have their own chairlift. Imagine living in a neighborhood with a chairlift named after your neighborhood dedicated to your neighborhood, for one of the biggest most posh resorts in Tahoe.
It's exactly this. Well, any of those things, in my opinion. You don't have to live somewhere your whole life to be a local. But if you're trying to be a part of the community.. well it's not long before you're a part of the community. If you just live there and hate on outsiders, well that's pretty much it. You a hater.
DesertStixThere’s a private community with their own lodge and lift at north star? That’s fckin wild
Wanna hear something even more wild? Average home in Martis camp sold for 5.6 million in 2020. AVERAGE selling price. Out of 61 houses sold in 2020.
And it's a decent sized community. On the backside of northstar and takes up more than half the space between Northstar and Truckee. Voted "best place to own a second home in Tahoe". Ugh. The website makes me want to vomit. https://www.martiscamp.com/
The price doesn’t surprise me for that access at all. Just a friendly reminder that my cheap ass should stay away from north star
betzWanna hear something even more wild? Average home in Martis camp sold for 5.6 million in 2020. AVERAGE selling price. Out of 61 houses sold in 2020.
And it's a decent sized community. On the backside of northstar and takes up more than half the space between Northstar and Truckee. Voted "best place to own a second home in Tahoe". Ugh. The website makes me want to vomit. https://www.martiscamp.com/
It’d be nice too if half the people you meet up here weren’t perma baked on dabs and shit. I smoke everyday but holy shit some people up here are legitimately hard to talk to.
DesertStixThere’s a private community with their own lodge and lift at north star? That’s fckin wild
I mean, technically it's not a private lift just for Martis Camp... it used to be just known as the Lookout Express, and they installed it to actually have some terrain that was worthwhile at Flatstar. Before then it was REALLY flatstar where the only worthwhile terrain was the backside, or up off the top ridge. It's always been a bit of a boring ass mountain...
but because Lookout was right up above the Martis Camp development, and because Vail Resorts' entire MO is to capitalize on as many wealthy people as possible while shedding overhead everywhere else in every way possible, they extended the chairlift all the way to the bottom and renamed it the Martis Camp chair. It's pretty low elevation down there, so sometimes it doesnt even get coverage at the bottom (especially lately)... so it essentially became a private chairlift going up and downloading for Martis Camp people.
Can you ride it without being a resident because the website really tries to make it sound like it’s an exclusive lift for residents to directly access the mountain with a private lodge and everything…?
DingoSeanI mean, technically it's not a private lift just for Martis Camp... it used to be just known as the Lookout Express, and they installed it to actually have some terrain that was worthwhile at Flatstar. Before then it was REALLY flatstar where the only worthwhile terrain was the backside, or up off the top ridge. It's always been a bit of a boring ass mountain...
but because Lookout was right up above the Martis Camp development, and because Vail Resorts' entire MO is to capitalize on as many wealthy people as possible while shedding overhead everywhere else in every way possible, they extended the chairlift all the way to the bottom and renamed it the Martis Camp chair. It's pretty low elevation down there, so sometimes it doesnt even get coverage at the bottom (especially lately)... so it essentially became a private chairlift going up and downloading for Martis Camp people.
DesertStixCan you ride it without being a resident because the website really tries to make it sound like it’s an exclusive lift for residents to directly access the mountain with a private lodge and everything…?
Anybody with a pass can ride it. Sugar pine glades is fire. Stampede is also a ripping groomer.
People will always bitch and call it flatstar, but there's some pretty good terrain in there. Straight up some of the best turns I've ever had/will ever get, were at that mountain. Always great when people talk shit because it's usually people that ride squaw and squaw is so legit, but you never see them skiing any of the real lines there or dropping any big cliffs.
People love to hate but northstar has some phenomenal tree skiing and the haters can get fucked. Nothing like beating the crowds into good zones at northstar and riding 8' of powder in open trees while everyone is stuck trying to get up squaw bitching at each other about how core they are.
Squaw is a great mountain and has some proper lines, but a lot of the people that ski there are insufferable cunts that aren't even that good and would ruin any fun occasion.
theabortionatorAnybody with a pass can ride it. Sugar pine glades is fire. Stampede is also a ripping groomer.
People will always bitch and call it flatstar, but there's some pretty good terrain in there. Straight up some of the best turns I've ever had/will ever get, were at that mountain. Always great when people talk shit because it's usually people that ride squaw and squaw is so legit, but you never see them skiing any of the real lines there or dropping any big cliffs.
People love to hate but northstar has some phenomenal tree skiing and the haters can get fucked. Nothing like beating the crowds into good zones at northstar and riding 8' of powder in open trees while everyone is stuck trying to get up squaw bitching at each other about how core they are.
Squaw is a great mountain and has some proper lines, but a lot of the people that ski there are insufferable cunts that aren't even that good and would ruin any fun occasion.
Northstar also has one of the best parks in Tahoe. The tree skiing is great also. And if you like groomers, well. They got em.
Buuuut... The list of resorts with better terrain is pretty long. Sugar bowl, Kirkwood, Alpine/ Olympic Valley of course, probably even Mt. Rose, Sierra at Tahoe and Homewood. and shit. Bear Valley? Yeah. Bear valley. But let's be real. Most those places are really sick. Northstar can be really sick too. Skiing is really sick.
Northstar gets the hate because of what it's known for. Which is, accomodations, ski in ski out lodging. A safe, accessible, family friendly resort with something to do for everyone, even if you're not getting on the snow.
Meanwhile, Palisades is know for KT-22, the fingers, Palisades, KNAR.
People can get hung up on what's the BEST and what has the BEST terrain and the BEST most famous lines. It's like chill bro, you're not the best skiier in the world. Let's hit Sentinel bowl at Kirkwood, crow's canyon at Sugar bowl, preacher's trees at Sierra, or sugar pine glades at Northstar. It's gonna be sick as fuck.
SuspiciousFishI bet $100 you have a Native bumper sticker...
Jokes aside the biggest problem with Colorado is Denver is basically a giant easy to develop field right next to world class mountains with a big freeway going right up it. This makes it really easy for people to come from other states, have all the urban stuff they like and super easy to access "wilderness". This allows the kind of people that just want the vibe to come here instead of people that actually appreciate the mountains and the responsibilities that come with it.
I moved to CO to go to college and lived in Utah for a few years before moving back to CO with my Wife who was born here. Colorado is an amazing state but I have to say I cant stand Denver and the whole "CO branded Bro" attitude. That is one of the reasons I live in Colorado Springs because there is less people and you are actually right up against the mountains and some real Wild West mines and stuff to explore. I refuse to have any shirt, sticker or mug with a Colorado flag on it too.
The more I live here the more I see how the locals are pissed off at the over development of the state and the 'brand' that drives it. Its shitty that the same thing is happening to Eastern Washington/North Idaho where I am from but the infrastructure cant handle it at all which causes even more problems.
i agree. im from here and the land development makes me sick. my parents grew up here too and they and their friends say the same thing. its just so overwhelming and it feels like there is no way to stop the rape of the land here
theabortionatorLiving on the mountain at Crystal. Spend very little time down there. I can get along with anyone and avoid getting political with some of those types and just have a beer if I'm down there.
Caution: rant inbound
Yeah it's fucked. That's why I moved to WA. People at the ski resorts bitching that locals don't want to work while paying less than fucking taco bell. Like yeah, I'm trying to compete in this insane housing market for a skilled job to make less than the base sticker price for fast food. Fuck those people in the ski industry and I hope them and their mountains eat shit.
Sucks J1's are coming back. I love visas and travel but I hate the way the ski industry exploits that labor force. I hope the ski industry gets fucked over eventually. It fully would deserve it.
I hate seeing mountains go under but the mountains in those markets exploiting people should eat shit and go under tomorrow. It sucks to say but that's how I feel. It's crazy how low some of these mountains pay in resort towns where housing is a crisis and every fast food place offers a significant raise. And then these pieces of shit in marketing say that "the locals just don't want to work and that's why we have to hire J1's". Like yeah, the locals want to be able to pay rent and buy groceries in the same month. Many J1's just want the visa and money doesn't matter. They come to be in America. I wish that visa was restricted more. The way the ski industry exploits it is terrible. Once again I hope those mtns eat shit and fold.
Look at fast food the last 5 years, especially the last 2 years. Any place you drive by is hiring for a legit wage. The ski industry can fuck off. All those scumbag mountains paying garbage wages should go under.
Currently am working for a mountain that pays well and has cheap employee housing, but the ski industry is fucked. I get sad seeing places fold, but that's the only way anyone learns. If fast food is going to pay more than skill operators I hope those places eat shit and fold. They fully deserve it, and nobody should feel bad.
Sorry, rant about obviously terrible $$$ and exploitation of foreign workers to avoid paying reasonable wages while pretending to be offering a service. Those ski areas are trash and should eat shit and fold.
betzNorthstar also has one of the best parks in Tahoe. The tree skiing is great also. And if you like groomers, well. They got em.
Buuuut... The list of resorts with better terrain is pretty long. Sugar bowl, Kirkwood, Alpine/ Olympic Valley of course, probably even Mt. Rose, Sierra at Tahoe and Homewood. and shit. Bear Valley? Yeah. Bear valley. But let's be real. Most those places are really sick. Northstar can be really sick too. Skiing is really sick.
Northstar gets the hate because of what it's known for. Which is, accomodations, ski in ski out lodging. A safe, accessible, family friendly resort with something to do for everyone, even if you're not getting on the snow.
Meanwhile, Palisades is know for KT-22, the fingers, Palisades, KNAR.
People can get hung up on what's the BEST and what has the BEST terrain and the BEST most famous lines. It's like chill bro, you're not the best skiier in the world. Let's hit Sentinel bowl at Kirkwood, crow's canyon at Sugar bowl, preacher's trees at Sierra, or sugar pine glades at Northstar. It's gonna be sick as fuck.
Yeah for sure. I guess it's just where you are on a pow day. Also something about mobbing through open trees when it's deep af. That's what i want.
Also from living in tahoe for years so many people that can't even ski intermediate shit at squaw or kirkwood etc are chirping about flatstar. Like bro you can barely ski a blue groomer safely.
Also as far as cliffs northstar has very very few and none that are that big. No exposed above tree line techy rock chutes and stuff.
Idk i would totally rip northstar on another 8 foot pow storm.i got lucky to get some monster days at kirkwood over the years. I never made it to sugar bowl or sierrs though . Was going to hit both when the covid shut things down.
Everyone skis different shit and likes differnt shit. Crystal where im living now has nore in common with squaw, kirkwood, crested butte, highlands etc. I like rocky terrain above treeline.
I guess i just hate when people bitch about places being lame when they can't even ski well and aren't utilizing the good terrain at the mtns they're repping. And then when everyone gangs up on the place as far as mgmt and vail, fucj northstar fuck vail. But there's some fun trees to rip though. It's surfy af to float through going fast in the deep deep.
I probably coukd have condensed that a bunch but i needed to get it all out. Hope the business is going well. Good you got away from Beaver Creek eventually.
theabortionatorYeah for sure. I guess it's just where you are on a pow day. Also something about mobbing through open trees when it's deep af. That's what i want.
Also from living in tahoe for years so many people that can't even ski intermediate shit at squaw or kirkwood etc are chirping about flatstar. Like bro you can barely ski a blue groomer safely.
Also as far as cliffs northstar has very very few and none that are that big. No exposed above tree line techy rock chutes and stuff.
Idk i would totally rip northstar on another 8 foot pow storm.i got lucky to get some monster days at kirkwood over the years. I never made it to sugar bowl or sierrs though . Was going to hit both when the covid shut things down.
Everyone skis different shit and likes differnt shit. Crystal where im living now has nore in common with squaw, kirkwood, crested butte, highlands etc. I like rocky terrain above treeline.
I guess i just hate when people bitch about places being lame when they can't even ski well and aren't utilizing the good terrain at the mtns they're repping. And then when everyone gangs up on the place as far as mgmt and vail, fucj northstar fuck vail. But there's some fun trees to rip though. It's surfy af to float through going fast in the deep deep.
Powder lasts longer at Northstar than most resorts in Tahoe since the target market sticks to groomers. The mountain is naturally protected, so you can ski on most storm days. The parks are legit and lookout mountain has some of the steepest groomers in Tahoe. They absolutely rip. Northstar has some redeeming qualities given what they lack in terrain
r00kieDenver sounds horrible. Paying insane housing prices to live in a big city out the plains. All the mountain activities are still to far away to make part of a daily routine. Pretty sure I would spend more time indoors living in Denver than I would anywhere in Michigan.
Yep. You are no where near the outdoors if you live in most parts of Denver. I find most people only ski a couple days a year or don't even bother with passes for the season. The people who do ski a lot live in their cars on the weekends to make it happen. Denver as a city is cool, but I would never want to live there. I prefer to mountain bike from my front door every day and not brag about it rather than be a typical Denver bro who spends 6 days outside each year and posts on IG every time they do it.
Not all are that way... I try to avoid those places as the ski resorts are usually just as bougie.
MaimHelpI felt poor walking around in towns when I went on a ski trip to CO
Are you generalizing this or have specific groups in mind? Groups like morons who go out into the wilderness unprepared or drive in the snow with zero fucking clue how to?
Because imo Denver is a perfect city as you describe for a good mix of urban and wilderness within an hour's drive. Same goes for SLC except Mormons so nah. Seattle is close to ski resorts too. I know there's others but that's just a few. I'll agree there's toooooooooooo many millenials dropping 50-75% of their income on housing just to live in an area; that's every big city right now and it will crash eventually. If the gov didn't drop stimulus bombs on everyone the past two years covid might have fixed the dumb millenials problem.
If I were to move to Colorado I'd probably move to Denver. Why? Because of the perks you stated as well as the fact that the specific types of jobs I'm looking for would be best in a big city. I could work anywhere, truly, but big cities have their perks, especially for employment and I'd be sacrificing to work for a shitty health system if I didn't work in a city. Housing prices aren't actually that much worse there than here.
SuspiciousFishJokes aside the biggest problem with Colorado is Denver is basically a giant easy to develop field right next to world class mountains with a big freeway going right up it. This makes it really easy for people to come from other states, have all the urban stuff they like and super easy to access "wilderness". This allows the kind of people that just want the vibe to come here instead of people that actually appreciate the mountains and the responsibilities that come with it.
CaseyJust don’t pretend like you personally invented mountains if you move elsewhere.
*Just don't pretent like you personally invented or own mountains or an area in general even if you've lived there your entire life.
These threads and sentiment are a dime a dozen on here and it's really overkill tbh. Y'all complain about transplants yet half of you already are. What sort of negative vibe are you talking about? The local mentality I see on here is so outrageous. State pride is widespread and not exclusive to Colorado so sorry people but your state isn't special.
As for the housing prices, yeah you got big buyers from CA coming east but you also got everyone else willing to pay higher prices all across the country. My house went up $100k in value in 2 fugging years in Ohio of all places. Vacation spots are even more rapid. It's sad that local governments don't do more to protect renters but that's capitalism for you.
Perfect example of a vacation spot that has been absolutely decimated by second homes and rental based income is Isle of Palms, SC. It's the best beach by Charleston imo and has been built up to an incredible degree. My family used to go there for vacation all the time. It used to be very spread out with tons of empty lots, affordable to an extent. Now there's houses on every lot, some two per lot. The city and suburbs are exploding. Lots are selling for hundreds of thousands and I've even seen a lot go for a million. I'm talking like 1/4 acre lots. Homes are selling over $1200/sq ft and people renting for $10k+ per week. This isn't just your precious mountain towns; it's everywhere.
Tldr: the whole point is that times change. Populations increase. People move. Prices are dictated by demand that we all create. No one has a right to call "dibs" on anything short of the Native Americans. While native Americans were also transplants, they can claim sovereignty, and since we violated that sovereignty, that is why they have the right to say we stole their land. Any of you else complaining about people moving to your state can seriously fuck off. Like get something else to complain about. You don't like the people or traffic or whatever then move. You're free to do as you please as are others.
DingoSeanI generally say youre a local if youre really a part of the community whether from a cultural standpoint, or an effort standpoint... either you were raised in or have lived someplace long enough and know most of the people, or youre someone who moved to town, and made friends not only with your neighbours or the guys at the local pub, but actually involved yourself in the community whether through events or organizations or volunteered for things.
/threads
Seriously this. Only thing I'll add is we can't be having people with attitudes trying to prevent assimilation into said community. If that's the case, that community can fuck off.
Dustin.Yep. You are no where near the outdoors if you live in most parts of Denver. I find most people only ski a couple days a year or don't even bother with passes for the season. The people who do ski a lot live in their cars on the weekends to make it happen. Denver as a city is cool, but I would never want to live there. I prefer to mountain bike from my front door every day and not brag about it rather than be a typical Denver bro who spends 6 days outside each year and posts on IG every time they do it.
Why I deleted Facebook and don't use Instagram often. The fakeness of society is cringe these days.
As someone who must drive a minimum of 5 hours to ski anywhere decent, I would love to live somewhere closer to mountains. My schedule would allow me to ski sooo much if I lived closer rather than having to consistently plan trip after trip after trip. I struggle with this dilemma every day. I hate everything about where I live except my job. Kinda at a breaking point.
Who is downvoting these posts? He’s 100% correct. I’m 3 hours from the southern California border and our entire housing market is FUCKED thanks to people cashing out and moving here where the cost of living is exponentially less or just flat out buying second homes in my area. My fiancé and I can’t find a home to save our lives and when we do, it goes into a bidding war and is 50-70k over asking price.
But what am I going to complain about? That’s capitalism and I don’t blame anyone for trying to better their living situation. I mean the second houses as rental properties are not even that frustrating to me because I would do the same if I had the capital.
The best I can do is try to help people who are moving here assimilate and contribute to the local community because you sure as hell can’t stop them.
HypeBeastWhy I deleted Facebook and don't use Instagram often. The fakeness of society is cringe these days.
As someone who must drive a minimum of 5 hours to ski anywhere decent, I would love to live somewhere closer to mountains. My schedule would allow me to ski sooo much if I lived closer rather than having to consistently plan trip after trip after trip. I struggle with this dilemma every day. I hate everything about where I live except my job. Kinda at a breaking point.
hoodratz47A Colorado thread turned into a California thread.
Who didn't see that coming
Californians who move to Colorado for skiing are greedy dumbasses.
Both are expensive to live, California more expensive but the pay is also higher.
Both have copious amounts of traffic
Both have annoying af people but also cool people
Both have amazing mountains
California is a more beautiful state overall with much more than just mountains
California doesn't care if your native unless it's Tahoe (shit we got people moving from fucking China)
California weather is way better
BUT California snow is sometimes wet ohhh nooooooo
Like for me the thing that would really make skiing better is living closer to the mountains. Could accomplish that living in Tahoe obvs, Reno, SLC, Alaska lol. But not so much Colorado.
Californians are dumb dude they're all moving to Austin Texas? Bro, stay in fucking Austin Texas. If you think it's going to be better out there in any way, you don't deserve California.
Now we have these jaded Colorado ducks coming to east Oregon....... Thanks god
betzCalifornians who move to Colorado for skiing are greedy dumbasses.
Both are expensive to live, California more expensive but the pay is also higher.
Both have copious amounts of traffic
Both have annoying af people but also cool people
Both have amazing mountains
California is a more beautiful state overall with much more than just mountains
California doesn't care if your native unless it's Tahoe (shit we got people moving from fucking China)
California weather is way better
BUT California snow is sometimes wet ohhh nooooooo
Like for me the thing that would really make skiing better is living closer to the mountains. Could accomplish that living in Tahoe obvs, Reno, SLC, Alaska lol. But not so much Colorado.
Californians are dumb dude they're all moving to Austin Texas? Bro, stay in fucking Austin Texas. If you think it's going to be better out there in any way, you don't deserve California.
