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DingoSeanI didnt know they used fuckin live rounds on set anymore.. wtf I figured this couldnt even happen.
That's the fucked up part... they don't. There's supposed to be a whole shitload of checks in place and people whos whole job is to handle and control the custody of prop guns.
The story out there right now is that the normal film/prop crew were union people and were told to leave the production site due to a dispute over conditions. As a result non-union people were brought in, one of which was someone responsible for the weapons. The end result was improper handling of a prop gun and a live(?) round was in the gun.
However, there are people out there (on the internet) who say that even a blank can do serious damage if it's at a close range.
.MASSHOLE.The story out there right now is that the normal film/prop crew were union people and were told to leave the production site due to a dispute over conditions. As a result non-union people were brought in, one of which was someone responsible for the weapons. The end result was improper handling of a prop gun and a live(?) round was in the gun.
However, there are people out there (on the internet) who say that even a blank can do serious damage if it's at a close range.
A blank can kill you I'm pretty sure but that's if it's real close like if you put a prop gun to your head. I've never tried it though so I don't know much about it.
NS_LawyerWhat's the difference between Donald Trump and Alec Baldwin's impression of Donald Trump?
Donald Trump only joked about shooting someone.
A little lawyer humor for you.
Yeah. Lots of people make accounts on skiing websites pretending to be lawyers. Thank god I'm finally able to get the legal advice I need at a price I can afford.
seems shady as hell to me. Proxy Hitman shit or something
Yeah seems a bit suspicious, the gun had to be pointed at her, then the trigger pulled, then a a live round?,pretty slim chance it was an accident but you never know. She could have been a 'trouble maker " and had to go, who knows , either way, he's got money and can buy his way out of it either way.
In all seriousness, this is a sad reminder of why you should always ensure that a firearm is unloaded by visually inspecting the chamber and magazine yourself. Even if you hate guns, like Alec here, you should still know how they work and how to be safe with them before handling them. Also just dont point them at people even as a joke.
Craw_DaddyIn all seriousness, this is a sad reminder of why you should always ensure that a firearm is unloaded by visually inspecting the chamber and magazine yourself. Even if you hate guns, like Alec here, you should still know how they work and how to be safe with them before handling them. Also just dont point them at people even as a joke.
I'm plenty comfortable with guns but I know nothing about how they use blanks, dummies or anything else in hollywood, and I'm not defending baldwin but...
It sounds like the scene required a "loaded" (with blanks or dummies) firearm. If that was the case, even if he does a press check...it wouldn't make a difference right? You would see a round in there, and go "Great!" because there is supposed to be something in there. Either a blank or a dummy. If it was a revolver, they're going to have dummies in there...which look more like actual bullets than blanks do.
Blanks, for example.
Now to be fair...to anyone who knows anything about anything firearm related the difference between a blank/dummy and an actual bullet is obvious.
So if you have a scene where you are supposed to shoot at someone/something...what more is baldwin supposed to do? Take the dummy out and open it up to see if there is any powder in there? There's supposed to be a whole team of people doing that. If you're handed a gun, that was supposed to be checked by multiple people, and you press check and something bullet-shaped is in there, like there is supposed to be if they use blanks for the scene... well what do you do?
Still think Baldwin is at fault. He pulled the trigger. But people point real guns at other people with blanks ALLL the time in hollywood. There is supposed to be a system in place to ensure it's a fake round and not a real one. So while baldwin is still at fault, imo the prep team is way more at fault. This is in a vacumn though. If you ain't an actor on a set you should never be pointing at something you don't plan on shooting.
If I had to take a very random guess...they were using blanks, prep team messed up, live round got in there...being very charitable to baldwin he checked...saw the above and couldn't tell the difference between a live round and a blank because he's an anti gun nut...and then the rest is history...
I feel so bad for the guy, especially seeing headlines saying shit like "Alec Baldwin kills woman". the guy was just doing his job. showed up on set, was given a gun and told to shoot. someone in props made the mistake, not Alec, and now the guy has to live the rest of his life knowing he was the one who pulled the trigger. also the media is having an absolute field day with it, ambushing him outside his house and shit. poor guy, couldn't imagine how he must feel rn
I haven't seen anyone blaming Baldwin. Not sure why you're asking rhetorically "what was he supposed to do." He was supposed to do what he did. Fire a prop gun at someone. No one is saying he is at fault.
Also, how do you think a "live round got in there"? Like someone just showed up on set with the correct caliber bullet in their pocket, and just accidentally took it out of their pocket and slipped it into the gun on the set before the scene was shot? Does this really make any sense to you?
LonelyI'm plenty comfortable with guns but I know nothing about how they use blanks, dummies or anything else in hollywood, and I'm not defending baldwin but...
It sounds like the scene required a "loaded" (with blanks or dummies) firearm. If that was the case, even if he does a press check...it wouldn't make a difference right? You would see a round in there, and go "Great!" because there is supposed to be something in there. Either a blank or a dummy. If it was a revolver, they're going to have dummies in there...which look more like actual bullets than blanks do.
Blanks, for example.
Now to be fair...to anyone who knows anything about anything firearm related the difference between a blank/dummy and an actual bullet is obvious.
So if you have a scene where you are supposed to shoot at someone/something...what more is baldwin supposed to do? Take the dummy out and open it up to see if there is any powder in there? There's supposed to be a whole team of people doing that. If you're handed a gun, that was supposed to be checked by multiple people, and you press check and something bullet-shaped is in there, like there is supposed to be if they use blanks for the scene... well what do you do?
Still think Baldwin is at fault. He pulled the trigger. But people point real guns at other people with blanks ALLL the time in hollywood. There is supposed to be a system in place to ensure it's a fake round and not a real one. So while baldwin is still at fault, imo the prep team is way more at fault. This is in a vacumn though. If you ain't an actor on a set you should never be pointing at something you don't plan on shooting.
If I had to take a very random guess...they were using blanks, prep team messed up, live round got in there...being very charitable to baldwin he checked...saw the above and couldn't tell the difference between a live round and a blank because he's an anti gun nut...and then the rest is history...
i think they’re calling blanks live rounds since they have gunpowder in them. idk how a real bullet would get on set unless someone in did it on purpose.
seems to me like a horrific accident and just a depressing case of bad luck. can’t imagine the trauma caused to baldwin and everyone else involved
A prop gun is just a gun. Someone had to bring live rounds in and load them into the firearm as far as I can tell. That is either shockingly ignorant or definitely malicious. Both are punishable with jail time.
Also, are we ignoring that 2 people were hit? Or am I missing something? Multiple shots?
Piss_Boyis this his fault legally? like who gets in trouble for this
No. From what I've read there is a required "master of arms" on set who is certified and licensed and whose job it is to inspect the gun before handing it to an assistant master of arms who then performs a second check and then hands the gun directly to the actor. This provides a closed chain of custody for safety purposes. The actor is not expected nor qualified to do the inspection, and relying on the actor to inspect the gun, who is not trained or licensed, would actually be negligent.
It sounds like the production company failed multiple redundant levels safety measures. I just don't understand what the gun was actually loaded with. I can't see how it could have been live ammo. It seems there was a single discharge that killed one and injured a second person. Maybe a faulty blank of some sort that exploded.
skeirmanNo. From what I've read there is a required "master of arms" on set who is certified and licensed and whose job it is to inspect the gun before handing it to an assistant master of arms who then performs a second check and then hands the gun directly to the actor. This provides a closed chain of custody for safety purposes. The actor is not expected nor qualified to do the inspection, and relying on the actor to inspect the gun, who is not trained or licensed, would actually be negligent.
It sounds like the production company failed multiple redundant levels safety measures. I just don't understand what the gun was actually loaded with. I can't see how it could have been live ammo. It seems there was a single discharge that killed one and injured a second person. Maybe a faulty blank of some sort that exploded.
The armorers name is Hannah Reed. She's the daughter of some "famous" hollywood armorer who allegedly taught her how to be a terrible hollywood armorer...
Here's a recent podcast where she's interviewed after her first gig ever as lead armorer on a nic cage movie where she says she was "nervous" about taking the job because she was worried she wasn't ready.
skeirmanNo. From what I've read there is a required "master of arms" on set who is certified and licensed and whose job it is to inspect the gun before handing it to an assistant master of arms who then performs a second check and then hands the gun directly to the actor. This provides a closed chain of custody for safety purposes. The actor is not expected nor qualified to do the inspection, and relying on the actor to inspect the gun, who is not trained or licensed, would actually be negligent.
It sounds like the production company failed multiple redundant levels safety measures. I just don't understand what the gun was actually loaded with. I can't see how it could have been live ammo. It seems there was a single discharge that killed one and injured a second person. Maybe a faulty blank of some sort that exploded.
Yeah honestly, this doesnt seem like entirely Baldwin's fault... it seems like the whole production was plagued with safety violations when it came to weapons discharges... There were accidental weapons discharges the previous weekend from baldwins stunt double, and nothing was done about it. The production team seems like they were negligent about the whole thing and failed to reign in the situation.
It absolutely was a live single round that was fired... Baldwin was simply practicing removing the gun from the holster when the gun discharged, hit the cinematographer who died, and the round went through her shoulder and hit the director behind her.
Besides all that it sounds like the working conditions were fucked on this production... crew had to commute 50 miles from Albuquerque and then work 12-13 hour shifts every day. That is not cool man. They brought in a bunch of non-union people so they could continue the production because they were trying to rush the whole thing. They were cutting corners and put people in danger. Someone died. What an absolute mess. No wonder the unions are walking off production sets these days...
so how far back is the blame game going to go? is it the person who made the guns fault? the person the purchased it? the person that gave it to alec? or the person that used the gun and killed someone and injured another? the person that shot the gun has to be held accountable. you cant always play stupid and say i didnt know? imagine for example if a surgeon didnt check all his instruments and operating tools before using them, and something went wrong with them and he just blamed the person that gave the surgeon the tools
MiIfHunterso how far back is the blame game going to go? is it the person who made the guns fault? the person the purchased it? the person that gave it to alec? or the person that used the gun and killed someone and injured another? the person that shot the gun has to be held accountable. you cant always play stupid and say i didnt know? imagine for example if a surgeon didnt check all his instruments and operating tools before using them, and something went wrong with them and he just blamed the person that gave the surgeon the tools
Discussing how this allegedly happened isn't shifting blame one direction or another. The blame lies with Alec Baldwin because he's the idiot who trusted other idiots with the safety of people's lives and then pulled the trigger.
T.L.Discussing how this allegedly happened isn't shifting blame one direction or another. The blame lies with Alec Baldwin because he's the idiot who trusted other idiots with the safety of people's lives and then pulled the trigger.
T.L.Discussing how this allegedly happened isn't shifting blame one direction or another. The blame lies with Alec Baldwin because he's the idiot who trusted other idiots with the safety of people's lives and then pulled the trigger.
Nahhh I disagree. I don't know much about the situation but it's a movie. In the real world this absolutely checks out....but they are supposed to have multiple barriers so that this situation doesn't happen.
It's like getting pissed at the goalie when you get scored on in soccer. It doesn't make sense because it had to go through every other player to get there.
T.L.Discussing how this allegedly happened isn't shifting blame one direction or another. The blame lies with Alec Baldwin because he's the idiot who trusted other idiots with the safety of people's lives and then pulled the trigger.
I mean the actor is not qualified or expected to check the safety or working order of a prop gun on a movie set. There are two other people on set specifically to do that. The actor isn't expected to ensure the safety of any prop on set, actually. Saying the blame is on Alec Baldwin is stupid as hell.
skeirmanI mean the actor is not qualified or expected to check the safety or working order of a prop gun on a movie set. There are two other people on set specifically to do that. The actor isn't expected to ensure the safety of any prop on set, actually. Saying the blame is on Alec Baldwin is stupid as hell.
This is totally incorrect, the fact of the matter is that he was holding a real gun, that fired blank bullets. If a real bullet is placed in it and capable of killing someone it is clearly in the category of a lethal weapon and not a prop. It does not matter how much safety protocols were in place and who checked it before you. When a gun is handed to you, you check to see if it is loaded, PERIOD. You always treat a firearm as if it is loaded even if you know it is not. Gun safety stems from good gun safety habits. This is 100% Baldwins responsibility, it may have been an accident but it was still his fault, he was the one holding the gun and the one who pulled the trigger.
skeirmanI mean the actor is not qualified or expected to check the safety or working order of a prop gun on a movie set. There are two other people on set specifically to do that. The actor isn't expected to ensure the safety of any prop on set, actually. Saying the blame is on Alec Baldwin is stupid as hell.
When you fully agree with skierman on a post.
It's a movie set. The people who's job it is literally to ensure this happens safety hand you the gun, you do the scene.
steeze_louiseThis is totally incorrect, the fact of the matter is that he was holding a real gun, that fired blank bullets. If a real bullet is placed in it and capable of killing someone it is clearly in the category of a lethal weapon and not a prop. It does not matter how much safety protocols were in place and who checked it before you. When a gun is handed to you, you check to see if it is loaded, PERIOD. You always treat a firearm as if it is loaded even if you know it is not. Gun safety stems from good gun safety habits. This is 100% Baldwins responsibility, it may have been an accident but it was still his fault, he was the one holding the gun and the one who pulled the trigger.
Legally, you are completely wrong. It would be legal negligence on the part of the production company to rely on an ass-clown untrained, uncertified, unlicensed actor to ensure the working order and safety of a firearm and ammunition. What you are saying is actually ridiculous.
**This post was edited on Oct 24th 2021 at 2:41:13pm
skeirmanI mean the actor is not qualified or expected to check the safety or working order of a prop gun on a movie set. There are two other people on set specifically to do that. The actor isn't expected to ensure the safety of any prop on set, actually. Saying the blame is on Alec Baldwin is stupid as hell.
I don’t know about that. If I was asked to take a gun, not a fake plastic gun, but a real gun capable of killing somebody, the last thing I’d be doing is pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger. I’d want to be 100% I knew exactly what i was holding and what the outcome was going to be, every time.
**This post was edited on Oct 24th 2021 at 2:45:05pm
TheMailManI don’t know about that. If I was asked to take a gun, not a fake plastic gun, but a real gun capable of killing somebody, the last thing I’d be doing is pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger. I’d want to be 100% I knew exactly what i was holding and what the outcome was going to be, every time.
**This post was edited on Oct 24th 2021 at 2:45:05pm
Idk man, hind sight is 420. It's going to be interesting seeing where it goes in the future. Will def up the anxiety unless there's some changes in a way that it can't actually fire anything.
It's a movie set. If they ask you to drive a car are you going to take it to a mechanic and get it checked out? Obviously guns can be gnarly but think of all the movies where somebody fires a gun at somebody. There's a lot of them. There's people in place to make sure this doesn't happen.
I get that if you were in that position you might do it differently which is fine, but you also aren't in that position. There's all kinds of things they're given, driving, whatever as part of a movie. It's crazy to expect that they would think anything else from a prop gun given by them from people who work on movies and keep things safe, would not be safe. After this, obviously that's going to be different.
People are judging this off of now, not after before it occurred. We know somebody died so we aren't looking at it the same way as before hand. I've never been shooting prop guns in a movie either, but I think it's wild that all these people act like he should have known better, or that they would have done something differently.
theabortionatorIdk man, hind sight is 420. It's going to be interesting seeing where it goes in the future. Will def up the anxiety unless there's some changes in a way that it can't actually fire anything.
It's a movie set. If they ask you to drive a car are you going to take it to a mechanic and get it checked out? Obviously guns can be gnarly but think of all the movies where somebody fires a gun at somebody. There's a lot of them. There's people in place to make sure this doesn't happen.
I get that if you were in that position you might do it differently which is fine, but you also aren't in that position. There's all kinds of things they're given, driving, whatever as part of a movie. It's crazy to expect that they would think anything else from a prop gun given by them from people who work on movies and keep things safe, would not be safe. After this, obviously that's going to be different.
People are judging this off of now, not after before it occurred. We know somebody died so we aren't looking at it the same way as before hand. I've never been shooting prop guns in a movie either, but I think it's wild that all these people act like he should have known better, or that they would have done something differently.
He absolutely should have known better. If someone hands you any sort of projectile based weapon, whether its a nerfgun, propgun, potato gun, or a AR, you check to see if it's loaded. That's day one firearms safety shit and he's been handling prop guns on set for literally decades. If he can't make a distinction between a blank and a live round, maybe he's just as bad at his job as his armorer was.
