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Fire fighters, fire prevention in forest areas

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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
I know 1 or more of our members works in this industry

1-are some areas/what areas, of Montana or more susceptible to these wild fires?

2-what kind of mitigation can be done to protect a home/property before building? From clearing, dead removal, even a very large pond…

3-even building material suggestions, I know what we do out east, but we don’t have your guys problems

im looking to build not only a home but put up 10ish trailers for rental units and I want my family and tenants to be as safe as can be, fire safety/prevention will be prioritized above all other budget areas.
Jul 15 2021 7:00AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,407
Just build your home in the center of a lake like rdr
Jul 15 2021 8:45AM
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profa_212
Posts: 8949 - Karma: 36,476
I mean i would suggest hiring a defensable space company. It's their entire job and they know what they are doing/have the actual tools to do it.

Especially if you are trying to rent out units it's my understanding that it can drop insurance rates.
Jul 15 2021 11:45AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,965
Just clean up the forests, I dunno like a broom or something maybe?
Jul 15 2021 11:46AM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Profahoben_212I mean i would suggest hiring a defensable space company. It's their entire job and they know what they are doing/have the actual tools to do it.

Especially if you are trying to rent out units it's my understanding that it can drop insurance rates.

Good suggestion thx, I may or may not have equip, I got stuff but the insurance rates maybe a large benefit idk
No.QuarterJust clean up the forests, I dunno like a broom or something maybe?

I do have a ventrac with a broom attachment lol and loader with a tree saw
Jul 15 2021 12:08PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9327 - Karma: 61,270
HypeBeastJust build your home in the center of a lake like rdr


who or what is rdr?
Jul 15 2021 12:10PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,407
SofaKingSickwho or what is rdr?

Correction, red dead didn't have a house in the middle of the lake. Just an island
Jul 15 2021 1:49PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6416 - Karma: 69,672
I really want to be a forest fire fighting pilot that seems like the tits
Jul 15 2021 2:20PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Def a cool job, def rewarding and important. Pay well? Idk it should, views, action …pilot license, helis, taking your friends up for a heli ski on a day off! sounds dope
ReturnToMonkeyI really want to be a forest fire fighting pilot that seems like the tits
Jul 15 2021 2:52PM
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SendyMcSendyface
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 24,040
ReturnToMonkeyI really want to be a forest fire fighting pilot that seems like the tits


That's my eventual goal, but hard as hell to get into. Ya really gotta know people.
Jul 15 2021 2:58PM
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SuspiciousFish
Posts: 2781 - Karma: 16,812
I know stucco siding helps a decent amount to repel fire. The biggest issue is creating a defensible space around your property which means no bushes against your house and no trees. If you have trees near your house and you cant take then down then at least trim the lower branches so a ground fire cant catch the tree on fire as easily.

This is the guideline set for Colorado which has similar risks. Some good info for sure:

https://csfs.colostate.edu/wildfire-mitigation/protect-your-home-property-from-wildfire/
Jul 15 2021 3:39PM
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DirtYStylE
Posts: 3652 - Karma: 8,889
ReturnToMonkeyI really want to be a forest fire fighting pilot that seems like the tits


I was just looking into it. You need 2-3k flight hours for a majority of the jobs. That’s basically when all the other jobs open up as well
Jul 15 2021 3:43PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6416 - Karma: 69,672
DirtYStylEI was just looking into it. You need 2-3k flight hours for a majority of the jobs. That’s basically when all the other jobs open up as well


Yeah. Heavily thinking about joining the military, that's the best flight training in the world and would cost a hell of a lot less money. Not sure about committing to it if I can't fly due to my minor vision impairments and concussions though. Hopefully those are non-issues as my biggest dream is to experience the thrust of afterburners and the joy of low altitude flying at high speeds.
Jul 15 2021 4:37PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 5,397
The farther in the woods, the farther away from responders you are. If you build you place tucked in a dense forest your obviously gonna be in extreme danger if your fire comes through.

For a general rule of thumb you should have at least of diameter of 100ft clearing if your house is in significant wooded stand. The more you thin out out around your house and cleanup the surrounding forest, the less intense the fire will be.
Dont forget about slope. The more terrain changes in your property, the more it can effect the fire behavior.


Here is an example of fairly well maintained forest area. It’s been Mechanically treated with logging equipment, and gets a prescribed burn every other season by local fire resources. With a forest like this it reduces the likely hood of extreme fire behavior and the destruction of the entire stand.

Building materials obviously metal roof, clean gutters religiously to avoid possible embers in burning down you house.
I’m not sure what siding is most fire resistant but talk to a general contractor and he could find out.
Having your own sprinkler system with pumps would be a worthwhile investment. You would get a pretty large reduction in insurance if you had all the equipment and plan in place.
Jul 15 2021 4:42PM
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SendyMcSendyface
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 24,040
ReturnToMonkeyYeah. Heavily thinking about joining the military, that's the best flight training in the world and would cost a hell of a lot less money. Not sure about committing to it if I can't fly due to my minor vision impairments and concussions though. Hopefully those are non-issues as my biggest dream is to experience the thrust of afterburners and the joy of low altitude flying at high speeds.


Talk to an FAA medical examiner, and maybe a military one as well. Vision impairments aren't usually an issue, as long as you can be corrected to around 20/20 (glasses/contacts/laser surgery). The concussions might make the military a little difficult, but shouldn't be a huge issue on the civilian side. Talk to a doc asap, don't kill your dream unless you know for sure.

PM me if ya got any questions about getting into flying! @jca is also a pilot, and knows more about the commercial side of things than I do, so he'd be another good dude to hit up.

**This post was edited on Jul 15th 2021 at 6:09:47pm
Jul 15 2021 6:08PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
50KalThe farther in the woods, the farther away from responders you are. If you build you place tucked in a dense forest your obviously gonna be in extreme danger if your fire comes through.

For a general rule of thumb you should have at least of diameter of 100ft clearing if your house is in significant wooded stand. The more you thin out out around your house and cleanup the surrounding forest, the less intense the fire will be.
Dont forget about slope. The more terrain changes in your property, the more it can effect the fire behavior.


Here is an example of fairly well maintained forest area. It’s been Mechanically treated with logging equipment, and gets a prescribed burn every other season by local fire resources. With a forest like this it reduces the likely hood of extreme fire behavior and the destruction of the entire stand.

Building materials obviously metal roof, clean gutters religiously to avoid possible embers in burning down you house.
I’m not sure what siding is most fire resistant but talk to a general contractor and he could find out.
Having your own sprinkler system with pumps would be a worthwhile investment. You would get a pretty large reduction in insurance if you had all the equipment and plan in place.


Very good info thx

do you have an idea on whether a home would be safer down in a valley or high on a hill? I was thinking hill top safer than a valley
Jul 16 2021 5:31AM
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50Kal
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 5,397
SavageBiffVery good info thx

do you have an idea on whether a home would be safer down in a valley or high on a hill? I was thinking hill top safer than a valley

Biggest factors will be fuel load and fire behavior (if and when the fire happens).

A low valley with a river through would have a higher humidity and would be a lot easier to clear trees then building on a hill top.
Additionally fires climb slopes faster when conditions line up, increasing flame length and intensity of fire.

I'd go with a low valley and clear trees out if I had all the money and cared about my property.
Jul 16 2021 12:49PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Thanks man, looking to understand as much as I can before I make the move, it’s not about the investment, I got two girls, a son and wife to protect, lives of tenants matter just as much.


ive worked tree clearing etc, got loaders, excavators whatev, I’m gonna do what I can to save $ and then hire some experts to finish so I wanna understand as much as possible, would have never guessed a valley would be safer than a hill, ngl, that’s a bummer but if it’s what needs to be it’s what needs to be.
50KalBiggest factors will be fuel load and fire behavior (if and when the fire happens).

A low valley with a river through would have a higher humidity and would be a lot easier to clear trees then building on a hill top.
Additionally fires climb slopes faster when conditions line up, increasing flame length and intensity of fire.

I'd go with a low valley and clear trees out if I had all the money and cared about my property.
Jul 17 2021 5:10AM
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TheMoostafian
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Masonry construction is non combustible.
Jul 17 2021 1:00PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Ya that wasn’t my top choice tho, originally it was gonna be a modern interior with a log exterior and some glass walls but these forest fires got the wife like whoa…
I’m not a fan of bricks, I’ve labored, laud pointed enough I don’t even wanna look at it lol but I agree with your point about masonry and fire, brick ranches are on top of the construction choice for built or reconstructed rentals tho.
so ima talk to some engineers that deal with fire before I redo this blue again, I’d like to prevent fire from reaching so I can still build my dream, I f not, probably build a concrete and stone home.
TheMoostafianMasonry construction is non combustible.
Jul 17 2021 5:29PM
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TheMoostafian
Posts: 4504 - Karma: 9,435
SavageBiffYa that wasn’t my top choice tho, originally it was gonna be a modern interior with a log exterior and some glass walls but these forest fires got the wife like whoa…
I’m not a fan of bricks, I’ve labored, laud pointed enough I don’t even wanna look at it lol but I agree with your point about masonry and fire, brick ranches are on top of the construction choice for built or reconstructed rentals tho.
so ima talk to some engineers that deal with fire before I redo this blue again, I’d like to prevent fire from reaching so I can still build my dream, I f not, probably build a concrete and stone home.


There is an abundance of really cool stone everywhere in montana. If you find the right piece of property you could definitely quarry enough basalt or granite on site to do full bed stone siding on the entire house. If you've got an excavator you could save a LOT of money by sourcing all the stone yourself.

Also I'll come do all the stonework for ya 🤠
Jul 17 2021 9:29PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,976
Probably not a bad gig until it's 110° out and your fighting forest fires.
Jul 18 2021 1:25AM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Wow that sounds like a lotta rock… do slate roof too?
TheMoostafianThere is an abundance of really cool stone everywhere in montana. If you find the right piece of property you could definitely quarry enough basalt or granite on site to do full bed stone siding on the entire house. If you've got an excavator you could save a LOT of money by sourcing all the stone yourself.

Also I'll come do all the stonework for ya 🤠
Jul 18 2021 6:43AM
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TheMoostafian
Posts: 4504 - Karma: 9,435
SavageBiffWow that sounds like a lotta rock… do slate roof too?


Slate roofing is badass! Very expensive though.
Jul 19 2021 10:54PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
Some family friends of mine lost their home in grand lake colorado and lost all their pictures and possessions and everything. Incredibly sad.

i dont know why we cant get better control of these fires. I guess we gotta fund welfare instead of funding forest fire fighting equipment. Ppl gotta have their jordans i guess.
Jul 20 2021 1:26AM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,976
DolansLebensraumSome family friends of mine lost their home in grand lake colorado and lost all their pictures and possessions and everything. Incredibly sad.

i dont know why we cant get better control of these fires. I guess we gotta fund welfare instead of funding forest fire fighting equipment. Ppl gotta have their jordans i guess.

I was thinkin they could have a huge fleet of fire fighting jumbo jets and just douche the bajeezez out of forest fires when they start, just money.
Jul 20 2021 2:14AM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
That’s a f in shame, some things insurance just cannot replace , and welcome back btw.
DolansLebensraumSome family friends of mine lost their home in grand lake colorado and lost all their pictures and possessions and everything. Incredibly sad.

i dont know why we cant get better control of these fires. I guess we gotta fund welfare instead of funding forest fire fighting equipment. Ppl gotta have their jordans i guess.

Don’t forget welfare says “they’re entitled to a fucking cell phone too”! , I don’t have a problem with the idea of welfare, but I have some issues with how it’s run and how easily abused it is
Jul 20 2021 6:27AM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
I would think they would run sprinklers everywhere the way underground power is run everywhere. Probably not a complete solution, but sprinklers everywhere and more fire funding, make every home owner a fire fighter, we hand out tax money all the time, as a PA resident, I wouldn’t mind my fed taxes increasing to support western fires, give everyone a hose.
ElcheapoI was thinkin they could have a huge fleet of fire fighting jumbo jets and just douche the bajeezez out of forest fires when they start, just money.
Jul 20 2021 6:31AM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6416 - Karma: 69,672
ElcheapoI was thinkin they could have a huge fleet of fire fighting jumbo jets and just douche the bajeezez out of forest fires when they start, just money.

I love the 747 supertanker. Only one in the world.

Jul 20 2021 9:31AM
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Vitiligo
Posts: 535 - Karma: 1,126
ReturnToMonkeyI love the 747 supertanker. Only one in the world.



Even with three of these they wont do much to the bigger fires. Once fires get big enough its about trying to control where they will burn next, not about extinguishing them all the way (unless they are close to civilization of course)
Jul 20 2021 9:57PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
SavageBiffThat’s a f in shame, some things insurance just cannot replace , and welcome back btw.

Don’t forget welfare says “they’re entitled to a fucking cell phone too”! , I don’t have a problem with the idea of welfare, but I have some issues with how it’s run and how easily abused it is


The cell phone thing i think is a wasted opportunity. Like if the kids were on wikipedia and reading or watching videos about science and engineering it would be a great tool for them to learn and help themselves.

but judging by the absolute state of the fecal tier wokish garbage there is on television today i think most of these kids are using their free internet to talk about gilmore girls and send eachother pictures of their jordans.

if you really wanted to help the lower class you would require the kids to watch a certain amount of educational videos on their phones every day and take a quiz on it at the end— otherwise their internet service gets disabled until they watch the vids and take the quiz.

if you have no curiosity to learn and help yourself you need to stop expecting people you dont care about to care about you and provide you everything you want for free.

Bc of the internet, almost everything you need to better your conditions in life is at your fingerprints, but its wasted by so many people.
Jul 22 2021 12:21AM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10831 - Karma: 57,376
Some good advice in here already-- look into fire mitigation companies your the region you're trying to move to. I know Bozeman, Missoula, and Kalispell have companies that can assess your property and can make recommendations/do the work to make it less likely to burn. Fire is a way of life out here, you can do everything in your power to prevent it and it still might not be enough.
Jul 22 2021 6:28PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,976
I use this shortcut to this interactive website about current fires, its a must before going hiking, camping etc , could give an idea were there's fires and not fires etc
https://www.fireweatheravalanche.org/fire/state/washington
Jul 22 2021 8:03PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Fuck that map makes shit look bad, the states is literally on fire and waaay worse than anywhere on the planet, wtf
ElcheapoI use this shortcut to this interactive website about current fires, its a must before going hiking, camping etc , could give an idea were there's fires and not fires etc
https://www.fireweatheravalanche.org/fire/state/washington
Jul 22 2021 8:21PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,976
SavageBiffFuck that map makes shit look bad, the states is literally on fire and waaay worse than anywhere on the planet, wtf


If you zoom in it's not so bad, not so good but not so bad
Jul 22 2021 9:36PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 5,397
SavageBiffFuck that map makes shit look bad, the states is literally on fire and waaay worse than anywhere on the planet, wtf

Yep it’s terrible. You should just stay on the east coast.
Jul 23 2021 9:09AM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Lol that ant happening, we’re flying out next week to look at several lots, a triplex and a home my wife “wants” me to look @which only reason I’m considering is it’s 15 from big sky, also looking inyoming and Co so a deal will be done by august1😁
50KalYep it’s terrible. You should just stay on the east coast.
Jul 23 2021 10:16AM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6416 - Karma: 69,672
SavageBiffLol that ant happening, we’re flying out next week to look at several lots, a triplex and a home my wife “wants” me to look @which only reason I’m considering is it’s 15 from big sky, also looking inyoming and Co so a deal will be done by august1😁

Honestly I think the benefits of finding a sweet place to live that might be in danger of fires outweigh the risk of fire. It's fairly easy to track fires now and with all the proper preparation you seem like you'll make, it shouldn't be a huge deal to batten down the hatches and make a stand for your property. Obviously have an evac bag ready during fire season and be vigilant, ready to get your family tf out of there. But I wouldn't fear it that much. Last summer when the Bridger's went up in flames, they managed to save quite a few homes to the point where literally all the trees around were burned down but the houses were untouched. It's amazing what they can do. Enjoy your life man! All the places you're talking about are sick af to live in and I'm sure you won't take it for granted.
Jul 23 2021 11:36AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37540 - Karma: 121,592
threads for NS'ers chiming in that dabble in Wildland Fire stuff, Forestry Service stuff, Fire Mitigation, etc. I know its absolutely brutal to get into as far as training, education, and connections and that doesn't even cover the type of work, but everyone I've talked to about it says its a great way to spend summers and can turn into a decent career at some point.
Jul 23 2021 2:32PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
ReturnToMonkeyHonestly I think the benefits of finding a sweet place to live that might be in danger of fires outweigh the risk of fire. It's fairly easy to track fires now and with all the proper preparation you seem like you'll make, it shouldn't be a huge deal to batten down the hatches and make a stand for your property. Obviously have an evac bag ready during fire season and be vigilant, ready to get your family tf out of there. But I wouldn't fear it that much. Last summer when the Bridger's went up in flames, they managed to save quite a few homes to the point where literally all the trees around were burned down but the houses were untouched. It's amazing what they can do. Enjoy your life man! All the places you're talking about are sick af to live in and I'm sure you won't take it for granted.

Do ppl just like have a huge water tank on thdir property in case shit hits the fan?
or do they just rely on the water pressure coming thru the pipes?
Jul 23 2021 2:42PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
ReturnToMonkeyHonestly I think the benefits of finding a sweet place to live that might be in danger of fires outweigh the risk of fire. It's fairly easy to track fires now and with all the proper preparation you seem like you'll make, it shouldn't be a huge deal to batten down the hatches and make a stand for your property. Obviously have an evac bag ready during fire season and be vigilant, ready to get your family tf out of there. But I wouldn't fear it that much. Last summer when the Bridger's went up in flames, they managed to save quite a few homes to the point where literally all the trees around were burned down but the houses were untouched. It's amazing what they can do. Enjoy your life man! All the places you're talking about are sick af to live in and I'm sure you won't take it for granted.

Thanks a lot man!! I’ve begun talking with a prevention company and they said basically what you said so I’ve got the fire worry out of my head, and if it happens it happens we’ve already begun discussing our “escape”, talking to the kids, browsing insurers so we get a good one when it’s time, kids r stoked
Jul 23 2021 2:59PM
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JAHBRADOR
Posts: 3032 - Karma: 17,232
I did forest firefighting for a season.



in no particular order:

1, clear out all deadfall/leaves/any combustible vegetation within a 100mtr radius around your property in the spring/early summer.

2. No point in trying to build with ‘fire retardant materials’. If your house is in the path of a forest fire, it’s going to get fucked no matter what it’s made of.

3. If there is an active fire in your area, try and set up a sprinkler system that will soak your property constantly. This will do little to nothing if the fire is directly on your doorstep but if the fire is close it will extinguish any embers or flammable debris that is in the air.

4. If you have a lot of time and a lot of heavy equipment, you could create a ‘fire break’ around your property.

5. pray to Todd Walnuts

6. Get dank insurance.
Jul 23 2021 3:45PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Thanks. All of these are in the plan, unfortunately probably rent heavy equipment, cost just as much to haul mine.
you don’t feel an all concrete and stone house, talking concrete decks, interior floors concrete, metal framing, concrete walls would do well? Bc aside from some glass and aesthetic log siding, that’s the bones and skin. If we build, it’s looking like it will be at the center of a 36 acre lot that will be clear in every direction for 1000’.
the triplex we’re looking at is for rent getting insurance and that’s it.
JAHBRADORI did forest firefighting for a season.



in no particular order:

1, clear out all deadfall/leaves/any combustible vegetation within a 100mtr radius around your property in the spring/early summer.

2. No point in trying to build with ‘fire retardant materials’. If your house is in the path of a forest fire, it’s going to get fucked no matter what it’s made of.

3. If there is an active fire in your area, try and set up a sprinkler system that will soak your property constantly. This will do little to nothing if the fire is directly on your doorstep but if the fire is close it will extinguish any embers or flammable debris that is in the air.

4. If you have a lot of time and a lot of heavy equipment, you could create a ‘fire break’ around your property.

5. pray to Todd Walnuts

6. Get dank insurance.
Jul 23 2021 4:34PM
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TheMoostafian
Posts: 4504 - Karma: 9,435
JAHBRADOR2. No point in trying to build with ‘fire retardant materials’. If your house is in the path of a forest fire, it’s going to get fucked no matter what it’s made of.


A house I helped build a few year back burnt to the ground. Everything was a total loss except the masonry work. The house is being re built exactly the same as it was. The two masonry chimneys and all the masonry work in front of the house is still standing and as good as new (after cleaning the soot off).

You wouldn't want to be inside a house in the path of a fire, but quality masonry work will not burn.
Jul 23 2021 5:18PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
Oh even if I thought it’s be ok we would be long gone, wouldn’t play that game
TheMoostafianA house I helped build a few year back burnt to the ground. Everything was a total loss except the masonry work. The house is being re built exactly the same as it was. The two masonry chimneys and all the masonry work in front of the house is still standing and as good as new (after cleaning the soot off).

You wouldn't want to be inside a house in the path of a fire, but quality masonry work will not burn.
Jul 23 2021 6:09PM
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