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Obligatory Tipping In America Is Stupid

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theabortionator
Posts: 51662 - Karma: 162,483
It doesn't make the service better, you aren't a baller tipping the same amount that's expected and everyone else tips, it's just dumb.

Can we do away with this ever?

The answer seemed unlikely but I've seen a few places including a 20% tip in with the price. That makes a lot if sense. Restaurants can still keep the tips and people can pay the price on the item.

It's seeping into everything though. Even fast food places are asking for tips now. We hate hidden fees, but love tipping, what is up America?
Jul 8 2021 11:20PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
You guys taking about just raise the price 20% need to realize there are significant payroll taxes employer would then be subject to in addition to wages, for the server to keep getting that 20% they would need to up the prices above that. Unless you want servers taking home less doing away with tipping will not save any money for the consumer.
Jul 16 2021 4:58PM
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Evantheshredster
Posts: 429 - Karma: 935
looking back at it man, you right. your the typa dude that can build his bike. honestly the nice bikes tend to come a lot better prepared and take less time to build. the real effort is with townies and trek marlins n shit.
BiffbarfIt's a bicycle in a box not a space shuttle my guy. Furniture from Ikea is harder to assemble. It's not like there's hardcore custom work on a 3k bike. Plus if there was a discount to do it yourself I would in a heartbeat.
Jul 27 2021 2:45AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
Jul 27 2021 8:56AM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
StaticYou guys taking about just raise the price 20% need to realize there are significant payroll taxes employer would then be subject to in addition to wages, for the server to keep getting that 20% they would need to up the prices above that. Unless you want servers taking home less doing away with tipping will not save any money for the consumer.


Tips are income and need to be declared and taxed like any other. There should be no difference in take home unless the server is being a cheat.

There are restaurants here in Ottawa that include gratuities in the bills and pay their servers a living wage. From what I've heard about it, the servers are much happier since there's no stress about what your take home will be at the end of they day and no pressure about getting tips. Happy servers = good service.
Jul 27 2021 12:46PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,845
coronaTips are income and need to be declared and taxed like any other. There should be no difference in take home unless the server is being a cheat.

There are restaurants here in Ottawa that include gratuities in the bills and pay their servers a living wage. From what I've heard about it, the servers are much happier since there's no stress about what your take home will be at the end of they day and no pressure about getting tips. Happy servers = good service.


Payroll taxes paid by the employer =/= employee income taxes made from tips
Jul 27 2021 1:03PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
coronaTips are income and need to be declared and taxed like any other. There should be no difference in take home unless the server is being a cheat.

There are restaurants here in Ottawa that include gratuities in the bills and pay their servers a living wage. From what I've heard about it, the servers are much happier since there's no stress about what your take home will be at the end of they day and no pressure about getting tips. Happy servers = good service.

Maybe it hasn't been common around where you live, but everyone I know who has been a bartender/server doesn't report all of their tips. Some people do because you must show income for loans etc but if youre in your 20s just trying to stack paper, why would you report cash? Just sayin, its common.
Jul 27 2021 1:06PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
BiffbarfPayroll taxes paid by the employer =/= employee income taxes made from tips


That makes no difference. When you declare income not on a pay slip you still have to pay CPP and EI for it (the two payroll taxes here in Canada). If you follow the law then your deductions are exactly the same for tips whether they be included in your pay or paid in cash on the side.

Just to add: The only way you could be deducted more from a payslip as opposed to collecting cash tips is if you have union dues or are paying into additional benefits (which almost certainly isn't the case as a server).

**This post was edited on Jul 27th 2021 at 3:36:09pm
Jul 27 2021 3:32PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,845
coronaThat makes no difference. When you declare income not on a pay slip you still have to pay CPP and EI for it (the two payroll taxes here in Canada). If you follow the law then your deductions are exactly the same for tips whether they be included in your pay or paid in cash on the side.

Just to add: The only way you could be deducted more from a payslip as opposed to collecting cash tips is if you have union dues or are paying into additional benefits (which almost certainly isn't the case as a server).

**This post was edited on Jul 27th 2021 at 3:36:09pm


He's talking about the tax employers have to pay to have employees. Not a tax employees pay.
Jul 27 2021 3:39PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
eheathMaybe it hasn't been common around where you live, but everyone I know who has been a bartender/server doesn't report all of their tips. Some people do because you must show income for loans etc but if youre in your 20s just trying to stack paper, why would you report cash? Just sayin, its common.


I'm sure it's common, but servers definitely get audited and it's pretty damned easy to see how much you made in tips these days with practically no cash being used. Honestly would you rather the stress of not knowing what your income is going to be before a shift and having to fight for the good shifts and the good spots in the restaurant or just be paid a liveable wage and losing a few bucks in tax that pays for shit you use?
Jul 27 2021 3:43PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
coronaI'm sure it's common, but servers definitely get audited and it's pretty damned easy to see how much you made in tips these days with practically no cash being used. Honestly would you rather the stress of not knowing what your income is going to be before a shift and having to fight for the good shifts and the good spots in the restaurant or just be paid a liveable wage and losing a few bucks in tax that pays for shit you use?


I've got a pretty good friend who is a bartender at a nice PC bar, he's quite happy with his situation because he makes a pretty decent wage + CC tips so the cash tips are just on the side in his pocket. I think you're overestimating the amount of ppl who get audited, the IRS doesn't give a shit about < $15k.
Jul 27 2021 3:45PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
BiffbarfHe's talking about the tax employers have to pay to have employees. Not a tax employees pay.


I don't get it then. Employee compensation is tax deductible, so it makes no difference to the restaurant if they increase revenue by x but then also pay employees x more. Maybe it's different in the US.
Jul 27 2021 3:47PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
eheathI've got a pretty good friend who is a bartender at a nice PC bar, he's quite happy with his situation because he makes a pretty decent wage + CC tips so the cash tips are just on the side in his pocket. I think you're overestimating the amount of ppl who get audited, the IRS doesn't give a shit about < $15k.


Good to hear he has a comfy salary before tips, it would certainly make life much less stressful. Many places there's just no way you can even pay basic living costs on the base pay alone. I've heard of servers making $5k+ / month in tips, but I imagine that's pretty uncommon (also Canadian $, so like three bucks USD).

I'm sure very few do get audited, but still, many people aren't comfortable lying about their income. If the reason for not including tips in the price is simply because you can make more money if you cheat on your taxes then that's a pretty shit reason.
Jul 27 2021 3:53PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
coronaGood to hear he has a comfy salary before tips, it would certainly make life much less stressful. Many places there's just no way you can even pay basic living costs on the base pay alone. I've heard of servers making $5k+ / month in tips, but I imagine that's pretty uncommon (also Canadian $, so like three bucks USD).

I'm sure very few do get audited, but still, many people aren't comfortable lying about their income. If the reason for not including tips in the price is simply because you can make more money if you cheat on your taxes then that's a pretty shit reason.


I think its still based on the "good service gets good wages" kinda thing, if you're a bad server you shouldn't get good tips, its part of the job. If the tip is guaranteed, what is there to motivate the server? its not like being a server is a career, its not like people strive to be the best server, if they don't have a reason to be attentive and efficient, why would they?

That's certainly a devil's advocate take, but I would assume many people who work for tips would be happy one way or the other, but its hard to completely shift how an industry operates.
Jul 27 2021 3:56PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,975
Nothing like giving a nice generous cash tip to the waiter/waitress then later seeing on the receipt a generous mandatory tip was already taken out.
Jul 27 2021 4:05PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
eheathI think its still based on the "good service gets good wages" kinda thing, if you're a bad server you shouldn't get good tips, its part of the job. If the tip is guaranteed, what is there to motivate the server? its not like being a server is a career, its not like people strive to be the best server, if they don't have a reason to be attentive and efficient, why would they?

That's certainly a devil's advocate take, but I would assume many people who work for tips would be happy one way or the other, but its hard to completely shift how an industry operates.


It's a fair point, but I would argue if tips are included in the price then the recourse of a customer for bad service is to just not go to that restaurant. This means it's now in the best interest of the restaurant management to hire competent employees and to value their work. As I've said, the restaurants around here that have adopted it have apparently done so with great success for all parties. Plus, of the places I've been to where tips are already in the price (in Canada and abroad), I certainly haven't noticed a decline in service and would argue the service has actually been better.

Also it seems tips do little to weed out bad servers the way it is now. I think most people just automatically tip regardless of the service. And even when the service is shit most people still expect 10% or something. Rarely do people just not tip at all.
Jul 27 2021 4:10PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
For sure, I don't necessarily agree with how it is, but ya.
coronaRarely do people just not tip at all.

This isn't necessarily accurate, just to use my good friend as an example again, but he gets stiffed way more often than I thought and hes making a complex drink in someone's face. Definitely a good amount of ppl out there who straight up don't tip, its pretty wild.
Jul 27 2021 4:15PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51662 - Karma: 162,483
eheathI think its still based on the "good service gets good wages" kinda thing, if you're a bad server you shouldn't get good tips, its part of the job. If the tip is guaranteed, what is there to motivate the server? its not like being a server is a career, its not like people strive to be the best server, if they don't have a reason to be attentive and efficient, why would they?

That's certainly a devil's advocate take, but I would assume many people who work for tips would be happy one way or the other, but its hard to completely shift how an industry operates.


A lot of people work in jobs where they engage with people but don't get tips. They're nice to people because theyre nice, and they're working and doing a good job.


From everyone I've tslked to it seems like if you don't tip at least 15 percent you're an asshole even if the service is garbage.

Also a lot of service just isn't good. I don't feel there's any advantage at this point. It's expected.

The only time it seems helpful is at the bar. Somebody might give you free drinks or stronger drinks and you tip the decently to continue.


It wouldn't be as bad if we just admit that it doesnt make sense and we do it just because it's the way it is and we're stubborn af.
Jul 27 2021 4:45PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
theabortionatorA lot of people work in jobs where they engage with people but don't get tips. They're nice to people because theyre nice, and they're working and doing a good job.

Are they nice tho? Definitely have ran into plenty of not-so-nice employees at many different types of businesses.

That being said, I dont agree with it and was playing devils advocate, but its ingrained into our society, I think tipping is important until the industry changes from that system, but I doubt they will anytime soon.
Jul 27 2021 4:48PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51662 - Karma: 162,483
eheathAre they nice tho? Definitely have ran into plenty of not-so-nice employees at many different types of businesses.

That being said, I dont agree with it and was playing devils advocate, but its ingrained into our society, I think tipping is important until the industry changes from that system, but I doubt they will anytime soon.


For sure, there's about a 0.0001% chance it changes anytime soon.
Jul 27 2021 5:19PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
I only tip mexicans.

we have to punish white ppl in order to bring about equity, remember.
Jul 28 2021 12:29AM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,975
DolansLebensraumI only tip mexicans.

we have to punish white ppl in order to bring about equity, remember.

What if a Mexican spits in your food, you still tip? Ir the white waitresses boobs fall out, you ain't tipping that?
Jul 28 2021 2:06AM
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iH8pow
Posts: 1808 - Karma: 7,695
I was reading the “workplace rights” or whatever poster in the safety meeting room one day. One thing that really stood out to me was the paragraph that explained that workers who make like $30/month in tips (or some insanely low number) are then eligible to be paid the tipped worker minimum wage. so by tipping the person at Subway or whatever position, you could actually be fucking them and only helping the owner get to pay them even less. Especially when its traceable via credit card receipt. use fucking cash. Taxation is literally theft in this example, much like the bank will pay you 1/20th the inflation rate on your savings account, and despite the fact your money is losing 2% value/year to inflation, they’ll still withhold tax on the minuscule interest they do pay as if you’re actually making money.

fuck this whole economy is a scam thats why im legitimately so hard into bitcoin. There’s virtually nothing left untouched these days that isnt completely rigged against the little guys
Aug 1 2021 1:02AM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 69,845
theLiquorI was reading the “workplace rights” or whatever poster in the safety meeting room one day. One thing that really stood out to me was the paragraph that explained that workers who make like $30/month in tips (or some insanely low number) are then eligible to be paid the tipped worker minimum wage. so by tipping the person at Subway or whatever position, you could actually be fucking them and only helping the owner get to pay them even less. Especially when its traceable via credit card receipt. use fucking cash. Taxation is literally theft in this example, much like the bank will pay you 1/20th the inflation rate on your savings account, and despite the fact your money is losing 2% value/year to inflation, they’ll still withhold tax on the minuscule interest they do pay as if you’re actually making money.

fuck this whole economy is a scam thats why im legitimately so hard into bitcoin. There’s virtually nothing left untouched these days that isnt completely rigged against the little guys


Many counter service restuarants including subway will pay min wage + tips. Full service restuarants will pay less than minimum wage unless the servers do not make enough tips, then the restuarant will cover up to min wage.

If you want restuarants to just pay min wage up front, you're gonna get more and more application based ordering, counter service and automation to keep payroll costs down.
Aug 1 2021 1:16AM
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