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What’s everyone’s opinion on wood sidewalls

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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
If they’re hydrophobic wood, I dig it. I’ve got some bamboo sidewalls (core is same piece as sidewall - blew my mind at first) and some purple heartwood sidewalls.

For plastic, ABS isn’t bad but I prefer UHMW sidewalls.
There is something so cool and trippy about a wooden sidewall though.

Whats everyone’s thoughts and experiences with wooden sidewalls? Anyone had just an awful experience with one?
May 6 2021 10:29AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9292 - Karma: 61,002
ive seen a couple that looked amazing. a purple heartwood one sounds wild

can't be durable enough though right? seems like the last place i'd want wood
May 6 2021 10:43AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
Here’s a video of it from my insta awhile ago.
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1003077/trim-80297BDF-882A-4811-9738-3265AB4E2BDE-MOVBut yeah, I thought the same as well. Then I had the bamboo sidewall and it’s been fine. I ride those skis hard too.

I’ve ridden a few skis with wooden sidewalls and they seem to be a lot more popular now . Haven’t tried purple heartwood yet but they seem to be great. Will report back.
SofaKingSickive seen a couple that looked amazing. a purple heartwood one sounds wild

can't be durable enough though right? seems like the last place i'd want wood
May 6 2021 10:50AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9292 - Karma: 61,002
wow those are sick. interesting that you haven't had any durability issues. keep me updated haha
May 6 2021 11:06AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 608 - Karma: 6,579
If treated right, well chosen hardwood sidewalls can be comparably durable, water resistant and complement the flex of skis rather than create a dead zone over the edges like ABS tends to.

Those old enough to remember the problems of the afterbangs and their ply construction, a construction just not built for end grain impacts with the volume of water that comes with skiing, just shows how there are bad choices. Theres a reason skate decks that are left out in the rain snap easily.

Through developing the hardwood sidewalls on Fauna skis, I used a bunch of woods and finishes and mashed my fair share of sidewalls until I returned to the traditional preparation of gunstock wood of black american walnut finished with teak oil, which gets right between the fibres of the wood and hardens, sealing and strengthening the walnut. It's definitely an extra cost to get the factory to do but as a more sustainable choice, that improves ski feel while maintaining durability and looks sweet, I'd say it's worth it.
May 6 2021 12:02PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
I"m sure there are ways to make it work. But wood, to me, is a material found in nature that just happens to be pretty good at certain tasks but could easily be outperformed by a material that is manufactured for a specific purpose. Now whether or not that is cost effective varies. I guess wood is renewable over the long term. I'm hoping chemical upcycling and that sort of thing becomes more useful in the near future so more carbon containing waste streams can be upcycled into new stuff.
May 6 2021 1:08PM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 608 - Karma: 6,579
DrZoidbergI'm hoping chemical upcycling and that sort of thing becomes more useful in the near future so more carbon containing waste streams can be upcycled into new stuff.

Let’s just say this is an active interest in these kind of things.
There is some interesting early work into depolymerisable resins which would mean you can separate the raw materials back out and process them again either for re-use or recycling. There are also some other interesting materials popping up in other applications which have crossover.
May 6 2021 3:07PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
FaunaSkisLet’s just say this is an active interest in these kind of things.
There is some interesting early work into depolymerisable resins which would mean you can separate the raw materials back out and process them again either for re-use or recycling. There are also some other interesting materials popping up in other applications which have crossover.


There's a lot of research being done into it. I'm actually a chemist and I work in catalysis. I just got a sample of oil that was made from the pyrolysis of some particular plastic, for example. Then we'd just run that through a standard refinery over the cracking catalyst I make and convert it back to plastics precursors or whatever we want, really. They'd like to get to the point where you can just send in mixed plastic waste to some combo of catalytic and pyrolytic/anoxic heat treatment steps to create more or less a circular plastic economy.

I think if people dumped the money into it they could do it faster, but good luck convincing some dude to sink a huge sum of money into research that might not turn out short term gains.

I bet if you wanted you could synthesize the perfect ski core material. It'd just be expensive right now.

**This post was edited on May 6th 2021 at 5:12:39pm
May 6 2021 5:12PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
The idea of a wooden sidewall seems stupid to me. Wood is a fucking sponge to a certain extent. No matter how you treat it.

You want some bulletproof shit on your sidewall.

its also structually integral from what i understand.

just visualizing it i think if ur sidewall was weak or too flexible you might have poor torsional rigidity.
May 6 2021 11:12PM
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migidimigi
Posts: 430 - Karma: 3,114
Havusnow.com guys also do wooden sidewalls. I think the environmental aspect is their reasoning for it but seems to work fine. What I've seen people skiing Havu skis they are as durable as any park skis.

If you are interested in wooden sidewalls here's Havu's info page on them and their maintenance https://havusnow.com/wood-sidewalls/
May 7 2021 8:25AM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 3,772
DrZoidbergI think if people dumped the money into it they could do it faster, but good luck convincing some dude to sink a huge sum of money into research that might not turn out short term gains.

I bet if you wanted you could synthesize the perfect ski core material. It'd just be expensive right now.

**This post was edited on May 6th 2021 at 5:12:39pm

Why would they dump money into it? I'm pretty sure the petrochemical industry is actively lobbying for the use of single-use plastics vs. more sustainable solutions. How would you define a perfect ski core? Seems kind of subjective, but I am honestly interested to hear what you would have to say.

Back to the topic- It's purpleheart, purple heartwood isn't a thing. It's uhmwpe not uhmw. Wood sidewalls are fine, I personally can't feel any sort of difference in terms of performance. Depending on the species it may or may not chip more than a traditional sidewall. I have used ipe with great success and it's water repelling properties means that I have had no need to seal them. Sustainability shouldn't be mentioned as a factor, the logging industry is certainly not sustainable in it's current form. Wood sidewalls might be more sustainable than plastics in comparison but I couldn't say as I'd only be guessing. Either way we lose if the goal is to be more environmentally friendly.
May 9 2021 7:10AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
That actually sounds like the best option.
FaunaSkisLet’s just say this is an active interest in these kind of things.
There is some interesting early work into depolymerisable resins which would mean you can separate the raw materials back out and process them again either for re-use or recycling. There are also some other interesting materials popping up in other applications which have crossover.

Was this a typo?
DolansLebensraumits also structually integral from what i understand.

Yeah those guys look cool! I think Pusu uses wooden sidewalls too. Finnish builders are all about the wooden sidewalls! 🇫🇮
migidimigiHavusnow.com guys also do wooden sidewalls. I think the environmental aspect is their reasoning for it but seems to work fine. What I've seen people skiing Havu skis they are as durable as any park skis.

If you are interested in wooden sidewalls here's Havu's info page on them and their maintenance https://havusnow.com/wood-sidewalls/

I know it is UHMWPE, it just feels unnecessarily long winded when everyone knows what I mean by UHMW. The industry, as a whole, uses UHMW terminology (look at ON3p or lib tech website now) and people understand what I mean.

As for the Purple Heart, yeah I combined heart and wood when there should have been a gap. I’ll take an L on that one.

My question is: why do so many garage builders use IPE? It seems like I’ve only seen people on builder forums use it but never any actual manufacturers of any size
PoikenzWhy would they dump money into it? I'm pretty sure the petrochemical industry is actively lobbying for the use of single-use plastics vs. more sustainable solutions. How would you define a perfect ski core? Seems kind of subjective, but I am honestly interested to hear what you would have to say.

Back to the topic- It's purpleheart, purple heartwood isn't a thing. It's uhmwpe not uhmw. Wood sidewalls are fine, I personally can't feel any sort of difference in terms of performance. Depending on the species it may or may not chip more than a traditional sidewall. I have used ipe with great success and it's water repelling properties means that I have had no need to seal them. Sustainability shouldn't be mentioned as a factor, the logging industry is certainly not sustainable in it's current form. Wood sidewalls might be more sustainable than plastics in comparison but I couldn't say as I'd only be guessing. Either way we lose if the goal is to be more environmentally friendly.
May 9 2021 11:58AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
also, isnt IPE the wood used for decks?
BradFiAusNzCoCaMy question is: why do so many garage builders use IPE? It seems like I’ve only seen people on builder forums use it but never any actual manufacturers of any size
May 9 2021 12:00PM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 3,772
BradFiAusNzCoCaMy question is: why do so many garage builders use IPE? It seems like I’ve only seen people on builder forums use it but never any actual manufacturers of any size

Easier to bond to the core, possibly cheaper depending on your location and shipping options, can't pick up sidewalls in my area, but I can certainly find ipe. It can also be easier to work/ clean up depending on someone's setup. A large manufacturer will find the reverse, where a large supply of sidewall material will be cheaper than ipe. It is certainly not sourced in an environmentally conscious way and a lot of it is illegally logged so manufacturers might wish to avoid that. Yes, ipe is used for decks, very expensive decks.
May 9 2021 12:23PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
Makes sense. That’s for answering. What sidewall do you prefer? It sounds like you build some
PoikenzEasier to bond to the core, possibly cheaper depending on your location and shipping options, can't pick up sidewalls in my area, but I can certainly find ipe. It can also be easier to work/ clean up depending on someone's setup. A large manufacturer will find the reverse, where a large supply of sidewall material will be cheaper than ipe. It is certainly not sourced in an environmentally conscious way and a lot of it is illegally logged so manufacturers might wish to avoid that. Yes, ipe is used for decks, very expensive decks.
May 9 2021 1:51PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
PoikenzWhy would they dump money into it? I'm pretty sure the petrochemical industry is actively lobbying for the use of single-use plastics vs. more sustainable solutions. How would you define a perfect ski core? Seems kind of subjective, but I am honestly interested to hear what you would have to say.

Back to the topic- It's purpleheart, purple heartwood isn't a thing. It's uhmwpe not uhmw. Wood sidewalls are fine, I personally can't feel any sort of difference in terms of performance. Depending on the species it may or may not chip more than a traditional sidewall. I have used ipe with great success and it's water repelling properties means that I have had no need to seal them. Sustainability shouldn't be mentioned as a factor, the logging industry is certainly not sustainable in it's current form. Wood sidewalls might be more sustainable than plastics in comparison but I couldn't say as I'd only be guessing. Either way we lose if the goal is to be more environmentally friendly.

Somebody other than big oil. Though they’ll get involved at some point. There’s money to be made.


I will yield to some sort of materials scientist on that one cause I have no idea. Higher elasticity that wood at the same stiffness? More consistent batch to batch since I assume not every tree is up to par. Waterproof. Optimal surface for binding with resin. Probably a lot of materials fit the bill.
May 9 2021 3:14PM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 3,772
BradFiAusNzCoCaMakes sense. That’s for answering. What sidewall do you prefer? It sounds like you build some

I can't make out a difference in terms of performance. I'm sure some would argue a uhmwpe sidewall to be faster, but I couldn't say. For wood, the heavier the better as it will chip out less. Ipe kind of sucks because it splinters and blunts tools, but it looks nice and doesn't need to be sealed. Other woods that would be nice would be teak or any sort of wood that falls into the "ironwood" classification. I've tried ash out of laziness, which if sealed properly will be fine, chips out really fast though.
DrZoidbergSomebody other than big oil. Though they’ll get involved at some point. There’s money to be made.


I will yield to some sort of materials scientist on that one cause I have no idea. Higher elasticity that wood at the same stiffness? More consistent batch to batch since I assume not every tree is up to par. Waterproof. Optimal surface for binding with resin. Probably a lot of materials fit the bill.

Grain orientation plays a huge factor, so really quality control vs. how much product you are willing to waste. If you watch some factory tours and shit you will see cores that have knots in them, you want to talk about a failure point, well there it is. I think that is why some go for bamboo as it is a manufactured product and fairly consistent.
May 9 2021 6:28PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
Deviation works said that that’s why they moved from black locust to Purple Heart because the knots would cause half the sidewall to fall out when they were laying them up for the press
PoikenzGrain orientation plays a huge factor, so really quality control vs. how much product you are willing to waste. If you watch some factory tours and shit you will see cores that have knots in them, you want to talk about a failure point, well there it is. I think that is why some go for bamboo as it is a manufactured product and fairly consistent.
May 9 2021 7:10PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6998 - Karma: 61,199
I seriously hope you two have a pair or an incentive program from sego because that’s gotta be exhausting to write sego bighorn everywhere
The referenced post has been removed.
May 9 2021 8:52PM
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