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The fuck vail conundrum

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SmokedGouda
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 6,256
So I know the rhetoric on most ski cites is fuck vail, ski at aspen or nowadays on the ikon pass, but is the ikon pass really that much different. Alterra seems to look like a newcomer in the ski resort conglomerate era. Both vail resorts and alterra own countless resorts and both provide a relatively cheap pass, albeit pricier than the smaller hills they gobbled up. Lift tickets at both are on the rise as well because their business model wants you buying a pass before the season since lift tickets are conditions dependent. Both seem to be making cuts in park unless it’s Woodward(Park city, on the epic and copper/Eldora on ikon). Both where resorts they own also seem to be disrupting previous traditions or culture as well. Idk. In one area, vail mistreats or supposedly mistreats staff and on the other, alterra just gets rid of a lot of positions installing lift line pass rfid gates. Just seems like at this point that the rhetoric is getting old since both are pretty similar. Curious what you think though. I’ve riden on both.

**This thread was edited on May 6th 2021 at 4:27:37am
May 6 2021 4:25AM
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SurfinCow
Posts: 305 - Karma: 2,396
1.disregard resorts

2. obtain street skills

3. ???

4. profit
May 6 2021 4:28AM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,100
Vail itself i think is overrated. Summit county is better.
May 6 2021 4:52AM
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skierman
Posts: 8403 - Karma: 7,865
Just wait until all those little resorts are gobbled up or shut down and the only options left are Vail or Alterra so they can set the pass prices to whatever they want.


Alterra and Vail are not lowering their season pass prices to be nice, you short-sighted, stupid fucks.
May 6 2021 7:24AM
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keagan.karstens
Posts: 1610 - Karma: 34,971
I’m on epic this year and next year I’m gonna buy an epic pass again. Fuck vail Ik but my home resort and my next year main resort are both epic so whatcha gonna do ab it
May 6 2021 8:57AM
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WoFlowz
Posts: 8012 - Karma: 63,827
What do you mean cuts in their parks? Alterra parks have been just as big as normal. I find that some parks actually got better with Woodward’s being added some got more creative and other mtns parks have been the same size as they were pre ikon. Only one I can think of is snowmass who’s park was smaller as a result of covid but will be back to normal next year based off what I’ve heard
May 6 2021 9:05AM
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ericforman
Posts: 722 - Karma: 6,212
At least in CO at ikon you can pretty much park for free at the base and access great terrain off the very first lift ride (Mary Jane, abasin, eldora without seeing a hotel or steakhouse. Copper is a bit less convieient but still free parking + one bus.

At vail resorts, unless you can afford a house or hotel, you are going to be paying to park, taking a bus / gondola / walking far, passing by a ton of fancy shit, and then you have to take like 2 lifts to get to anything decent.
May 6 2021 9:50AM
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doubleblackjack
Posts: 627 - Karma: 6,720
Heres the difference i’ve noticed. At my local vail owned resort, it has become controlled by Vail entirely, with basically no wiggle room. But up at killington, it seems to be more or less unaffected, but just owned by ikon and on a multi mountain pass.
May 6 2021 10:15AM
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jakeordie
Posts: 664 - Karma: 3,277
SmokedGoudaBoth seem to be making cuts in park unless it’s Woodward(Park city, on the epic and copper/Eldora on ikon).

May 6 2021 5:53PM
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jakeordie
Posts: 664 - Karma: 3,277
doubleblackjack1But up at killington, it seems to be more or less unaffected, but just owned by ikon and on a multi mountain pass.

May 6 2021 6:33PM
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PsychicMigration
Posts: 2099 - Karma: 10,540
On the rise??? how about through the roof......
May 7 2021 9:48PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37692 - Karma: 123,873
It's just skiing. And climate change will end up burning down ski resorts in the West or push snowlines back up to create a less longer and more expensive ski season killing any and all fun :)
May 7 2021 9:55PM
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mikemac
Posts: 1297 - Karma: 3,710
DeebieSkeebiesIt's just skiing. And climate change will end up burning down ski resorts in the West or push snowlines back up to create a less longer and more expensive ski season killing any and all fun :)


Sad but true... get while u can fam!
May 8 2021 12:29AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 52,428
ikon and epic are both wack but if your local gets bought out what are you gonna do

the hill I ski at is owned by the town, local residents get discounted season passes. There are basically no rules on the mountain, lots of parking, no lift lines

**This post was edited on May 8th 2021 at 8:37:17am
May 8 2021 8:36AM
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a_burger
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 20,856
You guys realize that being on the Ikon pass doesn’t mean alterra owns the resort right?
May 8 2021 9:50AM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12536 - Karma: 116,742
DeebieSkeebiesIt's just skiing. And climate change will end up burning down ski resorts in the West or push snowlines back up to create a less longer and more expensive ski season killing any and all fun :)


thats why im gonna buy a house in alaska, shits gonna be coastal weather in 30 years
May 8 2021 2:40PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
Woodward is Powdr corp.

Idk for every place but the mountain I work at is Altera and we're expanding our parks.

What examples are you talking about with them scaling back parks. Buttermilk seems to be legit again, snowmass is always fire, mammoth is friggin mammoth.

Vail is nerfing parks for sure though.
May 8 2021 5:02PM
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Celery
Posts: 2037 - Karma: 25,119
You guys always seem to have a semi decent park too.
pinkcamo1000ikon and epic are both wack but if your local gets bought out what are you gonna do

the hill I ski at is owned by the town, local residents get discounted season passes. There are basically no rules on the mountain, lots of parking, no lift lines

**This post was edited on May 8th 2021 at 8:37:17am
May 8 2021 5:44PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 52,428
CeleryYou guys always seem to have a semi decent park too.


I'm not sure if I'd go that far it's pretty sketch a lot of the time but everything is appropriately small so it's good to go lol
May 8 2021 6:27PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
theabortionatorWoodward is Powdr corp.

Idk for every place but the mountain I work at is Altera and we're expanding our parks.

What examples are you talking about with them scaling back parks. Buttermilk seems to be legit again, snowmass is always fire, mammoth is friggin mammoth.

Vail is nerfing parks for sure though.

alpine used to have a huge park now it only has a baby park, winter park has scaled back, squaw builds half as much as they used to...
in general i think parks are just being more catered to small and medium sized features over having big lines. breck still builds an awesome park but no freeway anymore since it got 1/20th the usage of park lane and no longer had dew tour.

you work at crystal right? are they ever going to build anything even medium sized? everything was small this year. though i think people slept on stevens, their park was super fun with good sized stuff once it got rebuilt/unburied for march.
May 9 2021 1:14AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
Ryanvdonkalpine used to have a huge park now it only has a baby park, winter park has scaled back, squaw builds half as much as they used to...
in general i think parks are just being more catered to small and medium sized features over having big lines. breck still builds an awesome park but no freeway anymore since it got 1/20th the usage of park lane and no longer had dew tour.

you work at crystal right? are they ever going to build anything even medium sized? everything was small this year. though i think people slept on stevens, their park was super fun with good sized stuff once it got rebuilt/unburied for march.


Squaw seems to just crank it up in the spring. Its a bummer with alpine. Their park used to be sick back in the day.

We had some pretty big rails in at times. Jumps were small but they weren't that small.

I didn't build the knuckles. It was a bitch to get them riding good this spring wiith how tight it was. Idk jump 2 was riding pretty mint all spring.

I didnt have any control of the park early season really. Ill have a lot more control in the future. Jumps will be bigger but probably a proper 35 upper 30s in the 3 jump. Doesn't need anything 40. A propper 35- 40 is a pretty decent size jump.

We need taller knuckles better spaced.


Stevens looks surprisingly good i never made it there. Will make sure to get out next year. Im jealous of the zaugg they got.

Hopefully csn build a couple bigger rails in addition to the beginner shit im building here this summer/fall. A z tube would be dope.

But yeah Crystal is going to be decent. Hopefully can improve a bit each year and get more budget and staff to keep growing. Management is on board with the parks expanding though.
May 9 2021 2:54AM
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toe-bang-gang
Posts: 208 - Karma: 1,271
i’m just mad that the food at the whistler lodges sucks shit now, i just about shit my pants because the fucking mac n cheese made me so sick
May 9 2021 3:57PM
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crimeenthusiast
Posts: 784 - Karma: 3,503
I listened to the storm skiing podcast with Rusty Gregory, Alterra's CEO and he seems pretty big on letting resorts keep their own identity. Huge plus that Alterra is also down with the long season! Vail is totally messed up for closing many of their resorts early, let the people ski!
May 24 2021 2:27PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
programmed_robotI listened to the storm skiing podcast with Rusty Gregory, Alterra's CEO and he seems pretty big on letting resorts keep their own identity. Huge plus that Alterra is also down with the long season! Vail is totally messed up for closing many of their resorts early, let the people ski!


I mean some places that might have an impact but most places people dont rode in the spring. Ticket sales drop to nothing and even passholders aren't coming out. This isnt everywhere. Obviously squaw, abay, and others do decent enough in the spring.

But even small mtns in the east coast close with 100% terrain open some years because its not worth staying open. That really isn't a Vail thing.

Some of those mtns were already going deep on good years before they were alterra. I dont lnow that vr buying resorts had that big of an inpact in closing dates.
May 24 2021 5:51PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7548 - Karma: 37,105
theabortionatorI mean some places that might have an impact but most places people dont rode in the spring. Ticket sales drop to nothing and even passholders aren't coming out. This isnt everywhere. Obviously squaw, abay, and others do decent enough in the spring.

But even small mtns in the east coast close with 100% terrain open some years because its not worth staying open. That really isn't a Vail thing.

Some of those mtns were already going deep on good years before they were alterra. I dont lnow that vr buying resorts had that big of an inpact in closing dates.


The difference was that before vail I felt like their was always a chance for an extra weekend, now i feel like there is no chance of a bonus weekend. Plus I always had big boulder until at least the last weekend in march, usually into april, not anymore.
May 24 2021 10:58PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
TOAST.The difference was that before vail I felt like their was always a chance for an extra weekend, now i feel like there is no chance of a bonus weekend. Plus I always had big boulder until at least the last weekend in march, usually into april, not anymore.


Also rip may day :(
May 25 2021 12:38AM
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Eastcoastskier95
Posts: 795 - Karma: 673
theabortionatorSquaw seems to just crank it up in the spring. Its a bummer with alpine. Their park used to be sick back in the day.

We had some pretty big rails in at times. Jumps were small but they weren't that small.

I didn't build the knuckles. It was a bitch to get them riding good this spring wiith how tight it was. Idk jump 2 was riding pretty mint all spring.

I didnt have any control of the park early season really. Ill have a lot more control in the future. Jumps will be bigger but probably a proper 35 upper 30s in the 3 jump. Doesn't need anything 40. A propper 35- 40 is a pretty decent size jump.

We need taller knuckles better spaced.


Stevens looks surprisingly good i never made it there. Will make sure to get out next year. Im jealous of the zaugg they got.

Hopefully csn build a couple bigger rails in addition to the beginner shit im building here this summer/fall. A z tube would be dope.

But yeah Crystal is going to be decent. Hopefully can improve a bit each year and get more budget and staff to keep growing. Management is on board with the parks expanding though.

From what I heard squaw brought the builder over from heavenly and just has done a shit job. Lotta people are calling him out and complaining. Also I heard Vail is getting rid of the park at northstar
May 25 2021 4:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
Eastcoastskier95From what I heard squaw brought the builder over from heavenly and just has done a shit job. Lotta people are calling him out and complaining. Also I heard Vail is getting rid of the park at northstar


Vail getting rod of the park at northatar? This doesn't seem like a reliable source.

Even Kirkwood has a park even though its tiny. Northstar just bought 4 new park pros in the last 3 years. Has 5 ops on swing and 4 ops on grave sometimes.

There's 7-9 park cat shifts every night, they have 3 pipe cutters(which mostly dont get used)

Is vail scailing back Northstar, for sure. But that's a long way from getting rid of the park.

Personally dont know anything about Squaw at the moment didnt make it there this year or last.

2 years ago the jumps were fun but 1 and 2 then a huge gap between 3 and 4 made it easy to get overly sendy on jump 3. Rail setup was pretty solid. I only rode it in the spring though.
May 25 2021 7:29PM
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Eastcoastskier95
Posts: 795 - Karma: 673
theabortionatorVail getting rod of the park at northatar? This doesn't seem like a reliable source.

Even Kirkwood has a park even though its tiny. Northstar just bought 4 new park pros in the last 3 years. Has 5 ops on swing and 4 ops on grave sometimes.

There's 7-9 park cat shifts every night, they have 3 pipe cutters(which mostly dont get used)

Is vail scailing back Northstar, for sure. But that's a long way from getting rid of the park.

Personally dont know anything about Squaw at the moment didnt make it there this year or last.

2 years ago the jumps were fun but 1 and 2 then a huge gap between 3 and 4 made it easy to get overly sendy on jump 3. Rail setup was pretty solid. I only rode it in the spring though.

Never really got to hit squaw when it was good. But heard the north * thing from a ski patroller there
May 26 2021 12:15PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51958 - Karma: 166,153
Eastcoastskier95Never really got to hit squaw when it was good. But heard the north * thing from a ski patroller there

Idk, they lost the straights but that was barely getting built recently and was kinda slapped together. To get some features in sometimes. Racers wanted it. They kept the rail line at the top of pinball rightside which was considered part of the straights. Thats awesome because that's the best 30 seconds since the last time I got laid.

But for real that tight rail line hits. Nothing fancy but i dig it.


But yeah it will take a lot to really get rid of the parks or even nuke them to nothing. Pinball still gets hit a fuckton so it shouldn't be hard to justify the $$. Also its about the only VR park in tahoe that vail seems to care about. Seems like it would make sense to keep it. Idk though.
May 26 2021 4:51PM
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*Nickdel*
Posts: 2264 - Karma: 956
Eastcoastskier95Never really got to hit squaw when it was good. But heard the north * thing from a ski patroller there


They only got rid of the straits (large park) and forerunner. Parks will still be at northstar. Your source is bunk
May 27 2021 12:02PM
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*Nickdel*
Posts: 2264 - Karma: 956
Eastcoastskier95Never really got to hit squaw when it was good. But heard the north * thing from a ski patroller there


They only got rid of the straits (large park) and forerunner. Parks will still be at northstar. Your source is bunk
May 27 2021 12:03PM
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