Derek Chauvin Trial

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/murder-rates-go-up-dramatically-after-blm-protests-study-finds/ar-BB1fWwzt?li=BBnb7Kz

Oh look. more facts that liberals will ignore. Surprise surprise. OMG i'm sure this liberal website didn't mean to publish this.

Facts don't care about your feelings

skiermanHe's not black though so it won't happen. White people can shoot up a mall, theater, elementary school, etc. and they still get arrested without injury.

Holy generalization batman....

white ppl get shot by cops all the time, and if the proportion of white ppl who reacted violently with police was the same as the stat for black ppl, then cops would be just as trigger happy and nervous when yhey pulled over white ppl.



Floyd didnt deserve to die tho, and if you think he did bc he was high on fentanyl ur an asshole.

cops treat everybody like shit

snowfinderCops are told that every call could be their last call. When they show up somewhere in the back of their minds they are thinking that someone is going to go after them, creating a constant state of fear and lack of trust in the general public. Add that with the current people that become cops and the lack of training they get for using weapons. It all adds up to dangerous situations that keep repeating time and time again.

Better selection for people becoming cops and better training is needed.

They should be told that, especially in areas with high rates of crime/ violent crime. That doesn’t mean they actively try to kill people, which once again seems to be what you’re trying to say.

zuesOMG LOOK AT HOW MANY ARRESTS IN THE USA THERE ARE A DAY AND LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY DIE... DERRRRPPPPP LESS THAN 0.01% OF ARRESTS END IN DEATH... DURRRPPPPP YOU DUMBASS

Damn, you and Dolan are really biting on my style. You kids are so unoriginal nowadays.

Charlie_KellyThey should be told that, especially in areas with high rates of crime/ violent crime. That doesn’t mean they actively try to kill people, which once again seems to be what you’re trying to say.

never once did i say cops are going out trying to do that or try to apply that thought.

skiermanDamn, you and Dolan are really biting on my style. You kids are so unoriginal nowadays.

Get fukt grandpa. You didn’t invent the caps lock you miserable wretch. Derp is a word long before your dumbass can into existence.

Charlie_KellyI always find it weird people go around thinking cops want to kill people, especially black people. It’s just a strange position to take when you start thinking about it on a deeper level.

snowfinderYou should get to know some cops might change your mind on this.

zuesYou’re a clown dude. Stop talking. You sound dumber each post. Cops really go around trying to kill people ? You’re either 12 years old or just an idiot.

snowfinderCops are going around killing people thats what this thread is all about.

@snowfinder

Charlie_Kelly@snowfinder

Yes cops are killing people and that is what the discussion is about.

Personally do not trust cops from past experiences and those that I know that are now cops. The same pattern I keep seeing for cops is that they were losers and wanted power and they found a means to an end by becoming a cop. Police need to have a better hiring process to keep those people out of the career.

The lack of trust is the lack of judgement that they have. They make poor choices in life and sometimes they make a poor choice and it ends someone else's life.

Again not once did I say that cops are going out to kill people, but they do kill people because they are unsuited for the job and not well trained.

snowfinderCops are told that every call could be their last call. When they show up somewhere in the back of their minds they are thinking that someone is going to go after them, creating a constant state of fear and lack of trust in the general public. Add that with the current people that become cops and the lack of training they get for using weapons. It all adds up to dangerous situations that keep repeating time and time again.

Better selection for people becoming cops and better training is needed.

I dunno why you're jumping all over snowfinder for this. Cops have an us vs the world mentality trained into them, get to walk around with guns as the sole arbitrators of justice without accountability, and are expect to be treated like heroes for it. All this while hairdressers have to be trained for longer. The current crop of people who become police is filled with assholes who snap the second their authority gets questioned.

I don't think citizens should have to be train each other on how to interact with police, it indicates a problem with the police itself. Its a fact that police kill a ton of people in this country and some seriously abuse their power with their whole little dick complex. Even if they don't shoot you or use force against you they can easily add charges which put you at the mercy of our legal system where you're fucked if you're poor. The justice system is sympathetic towards police. Our laws leave enough space for easy justification, and any misconduct is investigated by an internal probe hidden from the public eye.

Isn't it fair that citizens are afraid whenever they interact with cops? Doesn't it suck that you can't exercise your rights as a citizen because of that fear?

Charlie_KellyI do know quite a few cops, played baseball with a couple, went to school/hung out with a few others. Gf’s sisters bf is a state cop. Not once did they talk about or give any indication they got into the profession to kill people. Or that they want to even have to discharge their firearm. So once again I find it just weird that people like you think otherwise. It’s just a strange mentality to have.

It all just depends on where you are a cop, in my opinion. The police in my small city spend their days flashing sirens at school assemblies, hanging out at the park, writing a speeding ticket here and there, maybe a fender Bender or the occasional DV call.

If you are tasked with patrolling the bad parts of a major metropolitan area you are facing gangs, guns, drugs, violence and communities that have been broken by decades poverty every day of your shift. Aside from being dangerous in the here and now sense to the officer, I have to imagine that exposure will harden a person over time. If they aren’t able to process all that trauma in a healthy way it’s going to come out at some point.

My main takeaway from watching the other body cams in the Floyd case was just like, man these cops do not view these bystanders as anyone they remotely give a fuck about. You can here it in how they talk to them. Chang knows for certain that Floyd is dead when the other girl tries to get his phone out of the car to take to the hospital for him and he says, “he won’t need that, he is gone.” And she thinks he meant that he left the scene it’s pretty chilling

AndrewGravesSVI dunno why you're jumping all over snowfinder for this. Cops have an us vs the world mentality trained into them, get to walk around with guns as the sole arbitrators of justice without accountability, and are expect to be treated like heroes for it. All this while hairdressers have to be trained for longer. The current crop of people who become police is filled with assholes who snap the second their authority gets questioned.

I don't think citizens should have to be train each other on how to interact with police, it indicates a problem with the police itself. Its a fact that police kill a ton of people in this country and some seriously abuse their power with their whole little dick complex. Even if they don't shoot you or use force against you they can easily add charges which put you at the mercy of our legal system where you're fucked if you're poor. The justice system is sympathetic towards police. Our laws leave enough space for easy justification, and any misconduct is investigated by an internal probe hidden from the public eye.

Isn't it fair that citizens are afraid whenever they interact with cops? Doesn't it suck that you can't exercise your rights as a citizen because of that fear?

I really think you are missing the boat on this. This has nothing to do with training. This has nothing to do with trust. This has nothing to do with an us vs them mentality. Go reread the OP I made and the first response from snowfinder. It’s a weird mentality to have that cops want to, or derive some sort of self serving gratification from, killing civilians. And that’s absolutely the growing sentiment in America. I’d bet my entire 401k on the prospect that 99% of cops hope to never have to fire their weapon once in the line of duty. The things you are bringing up are a whole other conversation and I’d tend to agree with you on most, but the undertone that goes with every police shooting/killing (that they meant to) is fucking cringey dude.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angeles-area-cop-video-punching-handcuffed-woman/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=116953265

Today, this pig got kicked so then he punched a handcuffed woman twice in the face. Two other cops helped pull him off but still thats an abuse of power right? We hold children to higher standards.

He's now on paid leave while his peers investigate him. I wish when I fucked up at my job I got a paid vacation.

DolansLebensraumHoly generalization batman....

white ppl get shot by cops all the time, and if the proportion of white ppl who reacted violently with police was the same as the stat for black ppl, then cops would be just as trigger happy and nervous when yhey pulled over white ppl.



Floyd didnt deserve to die tho, and if you think he did bc he was high on fentanyl ur an asshole.

cops treat everybody like shit

Who said he deserved to die because he was high on fentanyl?

Did I miss that in this thread?

Charlie_KellyI’d bet my entire 401k on the prospect that 99% of cops hope to never have to fire their weapon once in the line of duty. The things you are bringing up are a whole other conversation and I’d tend to agree with you on most, but the undertone that goes with every police shooting/killing (that they meant to) is fucking cringey dude.

I'd probably agree that most dont want to actually kill someone. But I do think that a LOT of cops relish these high-intensity moments that allow them to parade around in their military getups, wave guns around and demonstrate their authority.

Shit, did you see the video of this dude making the rounds on Twitter yesterday? Dude is a police trainer and literally talks about how great sex is after shooting someone and that "it's one of the best perks of the job"

https://meaww.com/dave-grossman-police-trainer-killology-best-sex-after-killing-another-human

disgusting but not surprising

GrandThingsI'd probably agree that most dont want to actually kill someone. But I do think that a LOT of cops relish these high-intensity moments that allow them to parade around in their military getups, wave guns around and demonstrate their authority.

Shit, did you see the video of this dude making the rounds on Twitter yesterday? Dude is a police trainer and literally talks about how great sex is after shooting someone and that "it's one of the best perks of the job"

https://meaww.com/dave-grossman-police-trainer-killology-best-sex-after-killing-another-human

**This post was edited on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:33:05pm

That's completely fucked up.

Dude looks like a fucking psycho too.

GrandThingsI'd probably agree that most dont want to actually kill someone. But I do think that a LOT of cops relish these high-intensity moments that allow them to parade around in their military getups, wave guns around and demonstrate their authority.

Shit, did you see the video of this dude making the rounds on Twitter yesterday? Dude is a police trainer and literally talks about how great sex is after shooting someone and that "it's one of the best perks of the job"

https://meaww.com/dave-grossman-police-trainer-killology-best-sex-after-killing-another-human

**This post was edited on Apr 23rd 2021 at 1:35:41pm

Charlie_KellyI really think you are missing the boat on this. This has nothing to do with training. This has nothing to do with trust. This has nothing to do with an us vs them mentality. Go reread the OP I made and the first response from snowfinder. It’s a weird mentality to have that cops want to, or derive some sort of self serving gratification from, killing civilians. And that’s absolutely the growing sentiment in America. I’d bet my entire 401k on the prospect that 99% of cops hope to never have to fire their weapon once in the line of duty. The things you are bringing up are a whole other conversation and I’d tend to agree with you on most, but the undertone that goes with every police shooting/killing (that they meant to) is fucking cringey dude.

I mean your original post is assuming that people believe all cops want to kill people which is a big generalization that you keep circling back to. I'd say most people don't believe that, and that most cops have trauma if they do shoot and kill someone because they're human. The whole undertone that they meant to is one part your own bias to want to defend cops and another part the media being garbage. Oh no, cops kill lots of people and now the some of the public thinks they're all murderers so I should feel really really bad for the cops. You can miss me with that one.

How isn't this related to either training or instilled mentality? If you tend to agree with most of what I said, then how can't you see that it completely is the same conversation?

Coming into a situation with an us vs them mentality equates the citizen to an enemy which dramatically reduces the chances of communication and understanding and lends itself more to escalation where shooting is the peak. Add in the cop's personal biases based on stereotypes and past experiences and its easy to see how cops can arrive at a scene nervous and stressed. That's where you see mistakes happen and almost always at the cost of the citizen. This can happen to any cop regardless of how good of a person they are, and there are a ton of asshole cops.

What's the justification for this?

In 2019, 48 officers died due to criminal acts. In 2018, it was 56. In 2015 it was 41 and 2010 it was 55. Before you bring it up, yes, there were more in 2020 and I think you can attribute that to desperation due to Covid as well as the media narrative. Still, for every one cop dying, they kill 20 citizens.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

I don't think that it's necessarily an issue of cops wanting to kill people, although I am sure there are some "Boot" cops that couldn't go die in the middle east so they try to make up for it here. I think the big issue is training.

I forgot who the gentlemen is, I will have to look through my bookmarks and edit, but he is a very popular trainer for large departments. His whole mentality and teaching style is "That person you pulled over? They are your enemy. They want to hurt you and everyone you love. They are an evil person and you should be thinking about how best to go about shooting them at all times".

Just like how most cops and traffic stops don't kill or hurt anyone (Although even 1 is too much), the vast majority of people pulled over in traffic stops are not going to be violent murderers.

I think the root problem is this. People are told all the time that cops are evil people who want to kill and hurt them (which is not entirely unjustified). Cops are told all the time that people are evil gun-toting criminals and that any and every single person is getting ready to shoot the cop (which is not entirely unjustified). Combine the above two issues with poor police training and a highly held societal ideal that you can do whatever you want...and you get what we have today.

T.L.Unpopular opinion time..

Derek Chauvin is a piece of shit. He has a history of being a piece of shit. At a minimum he should have been convicted easily in any court in the country for manslaughter.

With that being said, George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose, not from Chauvin with his knee on his neck and shoulder. The medical examiners said as much in the trial and one of the prosecutions medical experts even admitted the oxygen saturation of his blood was normal meaning his airway was not restricted enough to kill him.

Chauvin was convicted of all charges because the jury knew what would happen if they didn't.

Ordinarily, I'm of the opinion that it's better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man to be imprisoned but in this Chauvin is not completely innocent. Floyd still died in his custody and there were other options to restrain him where his physical condition could have been monitored better by himself and the other officers on scene.

This is a tough one for sure. The jury likely saved many lives by convicting him of everything because we all know what would have happened if he just got manslaughter...

It really didn't matter what the defense showed. I agree with you there is a lot of reasonable doubt in the fact that he was speedballing, they found chewed up pills in the cop car as well. So the defenses whole argument is the cops walked up Floyd ate every drug he had and overdosed. Floyd did the same thing in 2019 he was rushed to the hospital and almost died. But the difference in 2019 is the officers were able to get him in the car and to the hospital rather than just let him die on the pavement.

Which is why the case with Chauvin is complete negligence. I think the defense argued you don't have to administer aid if there's an ongoing threat but the 6-7 people gathered around filming and saying get off him aren't enough of a reason to not attempt to save his life. In the most recent police shooting with the 16 year old girl in Ohio who tried to stab another person I agree the police used justified force in the situation. But even after shooting the girl he immediately runs up to her and attempts every life saving maneuver he can. In that case in Ohio those officers had much better chance of being assaulted by the people around, there was only 3 officers and what looks like 10 people who are yelling at them. They did the right thing and administered pressure right away after assessing the situation.

Also the second degree murder law in Minnesota that he was charged with which is different than normal 2nd degree murder is another very complicated charge that I still don't understand fully despite reading 5+ criminal defense attorneys explanations on it. It seemed liked another gray area charge.

Chauvin is a bad dude, Floyd was not a saint. But it's pretty fucked up to let someone who's clearly under medical stress from both drug intake and physical force just go limp and die and not try and flip him over and do something.

Also it really didn't matter what the defense said in this case, the jury was convicting for their own personal safety and I don't blame them at all for doing so.

Film.It really didn't matter what the defense showed. I agree with you there is a lot of reasonable doubt in the fact that he was speedballing, they found chewed up pills in the cop car as well. So the defenses whole argument is the cops walked up Floyd ate every drug he had and overdosed. Floyd did the same thing in 2019 he was rushed to the hospital and almost died. But the difference in 2019 is the officers were able to get him in the car and to the hospital rather than just let him die on the pavement.

Which is why the case with Chauvin is complete negligence. I think the defense argued you don't have to administer aid if there's an ongoing threat but the 6-7 people gathered around filming and saying get off him aren't enough of a reason to not attempt to save his life. In the most recent police shooting with the 16 year old girl in Ohio who tried to stab another person I agree the police used justified force in the situation. But even after shooting the girl he immediately runs up to her and attempts every life saving maneuver he can. In that case in Ohio those officers had much better chance of being assaulted by the people around, there was only 3 officers and what looks like 10 people who are yelling at them. They did the right thing and administered pressure right away after assessing the situation.

Also the second degree murder law in Minnesota that he was charged with which is different than normal 2nd degree murder is another very complicated charge that I still don't understand fully despite reading 5+ criminal defense attorneys explanations on it. It seemed liked another gray area charge.

Chauvin is a bad dude, Floyd was not a saint. But it's pretty fucked up to let someone who's clearly under medical stress from both drug intake and physical force just go limp and die and not try and flip him over and do something.

Also it really didn't matter what the defense said in this case, the jury was convicting for their own personal safety and I don't blame them at all for doing so.

Yup, exactly all of this. Chauvin demonstrated severe negligence by not monitoring Floyds condition. Had he used a more appropriate restraint he and the other officers would have been able to see his condition deteriorating from eating all those drugs.

imo, those other officers are complicit for not intervening regardless of the chain of command.

T.L.Yup, exactly all of this. Chauvin demonstrated severe negligence by not monitoring Floyds condition. Had he used a more appropriate restraint he and the other officers would have been able to see his condition deteriorating from eating all those drugs.

imo, those other officers are complicit for not intervening regardless of the chain of command.

The restraint he used was not a problem for the first minute. Because if you watch the body cam Floyd forces himself out of the cop car and then starts kicking like all hell at the officers. But after they had him subdued around 1:30-1:45 was the timeline the prosecution showed if I recall. Floyd begins to start screaming for help and Chauvin just doesn’t give a fuck. What’s he screaming for help for? Probably because his heart is exploding from the speed ball in his system and the knee on his neck/ back are not helping whatsoever.

In a lot of ways it reminds me of the scene in Breaking Bad when Walter White enters into Jesses house and sees Andrea overdosing and choking on her vomit and chooses to walk out rather than administer aid. Did Chauvin want to kill Floyd? Probably not but he sure didn’t give a fuck if he OD’d under his watch and didn’t do a thing about it.

Film.The restraint he used was not a problem for the first minute. Because if you watch the body cam Floyd forces himself out of the cop car and then starts kicking like all hell at the officers. But after they had him subdued around 1:30-1:45 was the timeline the prosecution showed if I recall. Floyd begins to start screaming for help and Chauvin just doesn’t give a fuck. What’s he screaming for help for? Probably because his heart is exploding from the speed ball in his system and the knee on his neck/ back are not helping whatsoever.

In a lot of ways it reminds me of the scene in Breaking Bad when Walter White enters into Jesses house and sees Andrea overdosing and choking on her vomit and chooses to walk out rather than administer aid. Did Chauvin want to kill Floyd? Probably not but he sure didn’t give a fuck if he OD’d under his watch and didn’t do a thing about it.

I agree with this, great comparison with Breaking Bad. From the footage I've seen, I can understand the reasoning behind restraining him that way temporarily if they were actively kicking and behaving erratically as a safety precaution for officers and bystanders. If I'm not mistaken, that method of restraint was confirmed as an authorized tactic for Hennepin County officers to follow when someone's physically lashing out in resistance to arrest/protocol in such circumstances. But there's absolutely no justification for keeping him there when he began insisting that he couldn't breathe and long after began to go limp and stop speaking. Chauvin's face looked so cold and contemptuous in the footage too, like he was just trying to teach Floyd a lesson. Another officer suggested that he remove himself, and he didn't. Others continually screamed out concerns for Floyd and Chauvin clearly heard them but didn't move an inch. Even if killing Floyd wasn't Chauvin's conscious intention, there was a clear shift from prioritizing law enforcement to prioritizing Chauvin's own stubborn ego over the risk to another human's life. He either didn't take two seconds to consider that Floyd could easily die (even while others actively voiced this) and adjust his actions accordingly, or he just didn't care. His palpable indifference to whether Floyd lived or died wasn't remotely connected to rationality or standard risks of police work and he's not above the consequences of that.

Unpopular opinion apparently: While everyone seems to think Chauvin's conviction doom the other 3 officers, I'm coming away with a different impression and think a lot that came out in the trial will exhonerate officers. Thao--idk maybe not as much as he was Chauvin's partner who was in the best position to speak up but he was holding crowd back "doing his job" despite what they were telling him. His argument is weakest.

But Lane and Keung were both low seniority nearly rookies. Lane was quoted a few times suggesting rolling Floyd over, idk what Keung was doing exactly and while I don't recall him speaking up like Lane was, he wasn't exactly appearing as an aggressor or enabler either. Everyone is tough when it comes to talk, but when you look at how many people pick up their phone to record rather than saving lives, I think a lot of people would not be the heroes they think they would be if they ever needed to speak up against their seniors. I kinda hope these two walk

I swear to god yall are all idiots for keeping this thread going. Zeus is obviously trolling all of you because nobody in modern day western society can be this fucking stupid, basically defending a man caught murdering another person on video. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for being worse than reddit.