Big Sky Diversity Fail

Skier-JonGotta say I wish I had left the name of the resort out of this. My intentions weren’t to shame as much as to hear what people’s thoughts were on the situation. Looking back the title is a little click bait-ey

dogfartstaintIf you can bring proof the ski industry/Big Sky is actively dissuading poc from skiing to keep their own little white vacation spaces then your argument would actually have some substance.

This is not the shit we should be focusing our energy on. Instead, spread the sport, it’s supposed to be a fun activity after all.

Skier-JonNot sure my post came across the right way for you. I wasn't trying to skewer big sky in any fashion, just bringing up something weird that I saw and asking for everyones insight, and some of the responses have definitely made me see things a little differently. I don't think anyone is actively dissuading POC from skiing. It just seemed poor taste to me the way they were going about it.

skeirmanI mean these are marketing materials, correct? Marketing to, presumably, the demographic depicted in the ad? So Big Sky seems to be trying to attract minorities with these marketing materials. What if next time they don't include minorities in the marketing materials. You'd complain then, too.

They should just head into the nearest city and kidnap a bunch of minorities on a bus and force them up to the resort. That way all the white people can feel better about themselves.

Skier-JonClosest city is Salt Lake I guess I might as well just bring them up myself next time lol.

As for if they were all white, honestly I probably wouldn’t have noticed because that’s what I’m used to seeing. The irony just really struck me

eheathAd content with only white people would be worse, no? It's pretty common to inject diversity into advertising, it's not really virtue signaling, it's just smart business practice.

DolansLebensraum

I think the point is that the avg ppl who go to big ski are white ppl who arent racist and dont care about race, so making an ad with 50 % of the ppl in the ad being token black ppl is kind of like a slap in the face to the non racist white ppl who go to ski at big sky as if the ad is telling the white ppl reading it, “this is what big sky should look like and it doesnt thanks to you not making friends with black ppl and taking them on vacation with you”.



Typical american bullshit. Its not the fault of white ppl that no black ppl ski at big sky, any more than it is black peoples fault that white ppl dont go for picnics in the ghetto.

DolansLebensraum

I think the point is that the avg ppl who go to big ski are white ppl who arent racist and dont care about race, so making an ad with 50 % of the ppl in the ad being token black ppl is kind of like a slap in the face to the non racist white ppl who go to ski at big sky as if the ad is telling the white ppl reading it, “this is what big sky should look like and it doesnt thanks to you not making friends with black ppl and taking them on vacation with you”.



Typical american bullshit. Its not the fault of white ppl that no black ppl ski at big sky, any more than it is black peoples fault that white ppl dont go for picnics in the ghetto.

dogfartstaintthis post, is the real failure.
”if you’re not doing anything to actually include disadvantaged groups in our industry in a meaningful way”

85% of Montana’s population is white so you won’t see many minority skiers in the local population regardless. Big Sky’s marketing is done primarily to attract tourists out of state like me. Inclusive marketing has been one of the biggest corporate efforts in the past 5 years. These resorts couldn’t give a single fuck what race you are they just want money. It’s not as if Big Sky security sees an African American or Latino and escorts them off the mountain. Would it satisfy you in Big Sky just gave free tickets to minorities?

appaI see this argument made a lot and I want to push back on it and also ask what others think about it. 85% of Montana's population might be white, yes, but are all of the people skiing at Montana resorts from Montana? If you make this argument, should you also forfeit the right to complain about tourists from out of state? What I mean is that I understand the argument you're trying to make--that you might expect the on-hill population to reflect the local population--but I believe that most of the people skiing at resorts are travelling there from somewhere else, and that the local population matters less in terms of interpreting on-hill populations.

Also, it obviously wouldn't be smart for resorts to overtly market condo communities or similar real estate projects as "whites only," but it's also obvious that, taking advantage of the historical context of skiing as a popular sport for white people during the era of segregation, ski resorts do have the impact of creating white-only housing communities that attract wealthy white people. So while they don't have discriminatory policies presently, they still profit off of conditions set up by discriminatory federal policies from the past.

safarisamMy favorite part about this is how Big Sky is ignoring Montana’s largest minority group: Indigenous Montanans. If they really wanted to increase diversity they would support inclusion programs on the reservations.

**This post was edited on Mar 31st 2021 at 9:30:21am

Craw_DaddyYes, we should introduce disadvantaged minorities who don't have health insurance to snow sports! What those people really need in their lives are some cold hands and hospital bills.

Craw_DaddyYes, we should introduce disadvantaged minorities who don't have health insurance to snow sports! What those people really need in their lives are some cold hands and hospital bills.

theabortionatorJesus dude. Wtf

Craw_DaddyYou know what, "Wtf" is right man. I'm thinking way too small here. What we really need to do is bring skiing to the disadvantaged groups of the WORLD. Im talking the slums of Bolivia, War-torn Syria, Somalia. Newschoolers should go there and set up dry slopes for the kids. That's what they need. That will make you guys feel better at least and that's really what all this is about, isn't it? You guys really just want to feel good about yourselves. God those guys at big sky sure are scum bags for exploiting the POC amiright. God I just feel so good about myself. welp, time to go jack it in San Diego!

Craw_DaddyYou know what, "Wtf" is right man. I'm thinking way too small here. What we really need to do is bring skiing to the disadvantaged groups of the WORLD. Im talking the slums of Bolivia, War-torn Syria, Somalia. Newschoolers should go there and set up dry slopes for the kids. That's what they need. That will make you guys feel better at least and that's really what all this is about, isn't it? You guys really just want to feel good about yourselves. God those guys at big sky sure are scum bags for exploiting the POC amiright. God I just feel so good about myself. welp, time to go jack it in San Diego!

theabortionatorDude. What the hell is your problem? Do you need a nap or a hug or something?

teamdummyI ski a “hill” about 15 miles south of the city of Cleveland. Cleveland is 48% black. 40% white. It’s a relatively affordable place to ski for a day. I can count on both hands on how many times a year I see a POC. Detroit has a bunch of ski area around it. Same results are seen there. I don’t have an answer why, other than they (non-white) aren’t interested in skiing.

BigPurpleSkiSuit

BiffbarfVirtue signaling and getting warm-fuzzies is 2020 era marketing 101. Solutions to actual problems are much messier and don't look as good on the gram.

PeppermillRenoThe only color marketing knows is green.

Its just marketing. What solutions do you want? Thats the virtue signaling thinking stuff needs awareness/to be talked about. The only thing that would work is building a ton of cheap housing near these places but that won't happen will it?

Races of all kinds get along in modern day society more than anytime in the past. We aren't that racist. All these issues are just rich and poor and the corporate overlords trick people into thinking its a black vs white issue so noone blames them for robbing society blind.

Bill Gates is a modern day slave holder but who cares he supports BLM he can be as evil as he wants. Ditto amazon walmart etc etc.

CaseyThat is the craziest motherfucking shit I’ve ever heard brother. You might be the most fragile white person that ad will ever reach

Jerry.at.tricksMr. Dolans, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

DolansLebensraumThe picnic in the ghetto thing didnt really illustrate what i was trying to say.

im just trying to say theres no reason to force diversity. Just bc 100% of the ppl at a resort on a given day are white doesnt mean there is any racism going on. There isnt on the surface a problem with tokenizing black ppl into your marketing ads just like there isnt a problem with a ski resort ad that has a picture with only white ppl in it. I would say the ad with token black ppl in it is more racist than the one with only white ppl in it because it doesnt represent reality in a resort with only white ppl in it. There is nothing wrong with a mag ad for big sky that shows a white family. Black ppl dont get “scared away” from going skiing at a resort because they saw an ad for that resort and thought “OMG NO BLACK PEOPLE IN THE BIG SKY AD I GUESS WE ARENT WELCOME THERE”. Its bullshit. Token marketing just makes a ton on non racists think the same thing op is thinking which is like “why bother preaching diversity to non racist ppl?” Whether or not its virtue signalling doesnt even matter; its just annoying to see bullshit like that when everybody knows its very rare to see a black person at big sky.

Hypothetically, if the big sky marketing team said “lets go find some ppl to put in our ad, and they decided on 4 ppl to use based on some race-irrelevant trait like their height, and 2 out of the 4 ppl they chose just happened to be black, then God bless them for it, because then it wouldnt be a racial issue involved with the ad.

but lets pretend for a moment that our iqs are above 40; its obvious that the real reason there were 2 black ppl in the advertisement was because somebody in the marketing team, at some point, mentioned the exact words “we should have half the people in the ad be black”
and “the image will be seen as having the right political alignment that we want to represent our company with to make the most money in the long run”

the marketting team doesnt actually care if black ppl feel more welcomed by the resort when they see the ad. They dont care about helping to move the goalposts of race relations in the country. They just care about how to represent their company in a way that will maximize earnings. They are using race to make money. Its not really that they are racist, its just that they are disingenuous. They want to place their company in a certain category of political drift.

They probably also know that pushing the race issue in ads like this will actually drive many people further apart on the issue of race, just like the affect it had on op, but they dont care. They think they can outsmart the majority of the ppl who see the ad.

op isnt racist, he just gets annoyed being able to see through the disingenuous corporate bullshit, like alot of ppl do.

NotaskibumDid you just get back from your klan meeting?

skeirmanSays the sexist.

NotaskibumDid you just get back from your klan meeting?

DolansLebensraumMeh. I thought i was being pretty reasonable.

eheathI think you're just reading it in a negative context for some reason, what was so bad about it? Skiing is a niche sport, most people don't ski and don't have a desire to ski, regardless of race, that's literally what I said. There are thousands of white people who live in SLC, one of the most ski-accessible cities, who have never skied in their life and don't intend on skiing.

**This post was edited on Mar 31st 2021 at 5:13:16pm

theabortionatorI kinds wish more people wouod get into it. Everyone of my black friends fucking rip. Idk if it's just coincidence or they feel they have something to prove. But they're all nice on boards. Hell one of my friends early on, only blsck snowboarder or skier I knew was a little dicey but kept getting better. I have a video landing on his head at hike and huck at loon. A year or two later kid had dubs. Another fucking has cripplers with a mute or indy on lock and more rail tricks than most.

Been listening to the bomhole podcast at work and was cool to here ted i think talking about reds backyard and expanding to cities. Ive been such a big dig rider of what powdr is doing sith those parks as well as learn to ride month etc. Its fucking sick to see legit mtns have sick ass hike parks for free.

Let's get more people into this fucking sport. Especially parks.

Wormracer"I think another thing most people don't think about is that the majority of POC probably don't want to ski, most white people don't even ski."

You are 100% what's wrong with bringing people into outdoor sports. A white dude from a white state, with a college degree and disposable income is saying that, "POC probably don't want to ski". You are speaking for a general group of people and excluding them based on what you think. That's 100% being a bigot.

I know you didn't mean to be ignorant but that more or less the definition of the word. You just really haven't thought out why POC don't do certain things in the same percentage as white people. Do you think POC don't want to go to college at the same rate as white people? Own a home at the same percentage of white people? Excluding race and highlighting the fact that poor people in general don't ski, own homes, and go to college because... They are poor. And the fact that POC have less income compared to white people makes it that much harder. Combined with the fact that skiing, and frankly outdoor recreation has been excluding POC for generations makes you more willfully ignorant.

At this stage in the game your most definitely part of the problem.

Wormracer"I think another thing most people don't think about is that the majority of POC probably don't want to ski, most white people don't even ski."

You are 100% what's wrong with bringing people into outdoor sports. A white dude from a white state, with a college degree and disposable income is saying that, "POC probably don't want to ski". You are speaking for a general group of people and excluding them based on what you think. That's 100% being a bigot.

I know you didn't mean to be ignorant but that more or less the definition of the word. You just really haven't thought out why POC don't do certain things in the same percentage as white people. Do you think POC don't want to go to college at the same rate as white people? Own a home at the same percentage of white people? Excluding race and highlighting the fact that poor people in general don't ski, own homes, and go to college because... They are poor. And the fact that POC have less income compared to white people makes it that much harder. Combined with the fact that skiing, and frankly outdoor recreation has been excluding POC for generations makes you more willfully ignorant.

At this stage in the game your most definitely part of the problem.

ReturnToMonkey"No wheels and no keys, no boats, no snowmobiles, and no skis"
Even Dre knows skis are just as nice a luxury as a boat or sled. I'd be willing to bet he can make a few turns alright.

BigPurpleSkiSuitHonestly feel like skiing needs someone like Zeb Powell. That kid always seems super happy and stoked to be riding and is getting his name out there bigtime.