Big Sky Diversity Fail

Skier-JonI understand that representation is important but if you’re not doing anything to actually include disadvantaged groups in our industry in a meaningful way is using them for your marketing content really for anything other than virtue signaling and making yourself feel good? Felt pretty scummy to me.

BiffbarfVirtue signaling and getting warm-fuzzies is 2020 era marketing 101. Solutions to actual problems are much messier and don't look as good on the gram.

TRVP_ANGELYou think this is bad?? I was skiing Vail last week and got kicked out of the lodge. I tried to book a table for me and my girl (who btw is a pair of on3p magnus, her name is sheila). They said there were no tables available for singles but I very kindly explained that it was for TWO. They didnt understand and I had to spent 20 mins to educate them about skisexuality and my relationship with my on3p skis.

Security ended up escorting us out and im so furious. You think racism is a problem? Try explaining who skisexuals are to the "tolerant" left and see how they accepting they are.

CaseyI mean I wouldn’t say this is wrong but like what is a ski area supposed to do?

seems to me the ski area being all white is a symptom of a bigger problem

AlaskaDogfartThe truth is that a lot of places where these ski areas are located have a very small population of minority groups in the first place, which is a big cause of the issue.

safarisamMy favorite part about this is how Big Sky is ignoring Montana’s largest minority group: Indigenous Montanans. If they really wanted to increase diversity they would support inclusion programs on the reservations.

**This post was edited on Mar 31st 2021 at 9:30:21am

Skier-JonThe one guy in the shoot may have been Indigenous... but yeah I mean we could talk all day about what they should be doing, but hiring two people who wouldn’t have been at the resort anyways for a photo shoot definitely ain’t it cuz

.nastyYou’re in big sky, Montana. If people of color wanted to go there, they would. Most of the time though, they won’t. The marketing thing might actually be trying to get some of them to go there, it’s not as if they’re doing it to cover up them not wanting people of color or something along those lines. Ya ever think of it that way?

**This post was edited on Mar 31st 2021 at 11:01:17am

safarisamAbsolutely, it leaves a sour taste to know that’s likely the only reason they were there. Big Sky is my home resort— it’s thought that we’re in an extremely white state to begin with.

BigPurpleSkiSuit

eheathAd content with only white people would be worse, no? It's pretty common to inject diversity into advertising, it's not really virtue signaling, it's just smart business practice.

BrandoComandoMaybe that photo reaches someone of color and it sways them to go skiing because it feels more inclusive than marketing material with an all-white cast. As half-assed as it is, it's better than nothing. As members of the outdoor community, I think we should encourage continued development, rather than shame corporations for not doing enough.

.nastyYou’re in big sky, Montana. If people of color wanted to go there, they would. Most of the time though, they won’t. The marketing thing might actually be trying to get some of them to go there, it’s not as if they’re doing it to cover up them not wanting people of color or something along those lines. Ya ever think of it that way?

**This post was edited on Mar 31st 2021 at 11:01:17am

Skier-JonYeah these are great points. I guess I’m just curious where that line is between tokenism and inclusion.

eheathI think we need to ease up on the shaming.

Skier-JonGotta say I wish I had left the name of the resort out of this. My intentions weren’t to shame as much as to hear what people’s thoughts were on the situation. Looking back the title is a little click bait-ey

BrandoComandoAnyone watch REEL ROCK 15? One of the films, Black Ice, was about teaching a group of black gym climbers from Memphis how to ice climb in Montana. It's a great film. They fly into Bozeman and I'm sure it tripled the number of black people in town. The film talks about the lack of diversity and some of the barriers to entry for people of color in action sports. And it highlights some programs that are trying to change it.

Diversity in the mountains is lacking for a million reasons. I'm sure Big Sky can do better, but diverse marketing is at least a step in the right direction. Maybe that photo reaches someone of color and it sways them to go skiing because it feels more inclusive than marketing material with an all-white cast. As half-assed as it is, it's better than nothing. As members of the outdoor community, I think we should encourage continued development, rather than shame corporations for not doing enough.

ReturnToMonkeyOne of the main things I miss about living in CO is the diversity there.

eheathColorado is 86% white, just saying.

BigPurpleSkiSuitYeah, I don't even climb and thought that was amazing.

eheathColorado is 86% white, just saying.

eheathColorado is 86% white, just saying.

eheathI think another thing most people don't think about is that the majority of POC probably don't want to ski, most white people don't even ski.

Skiing is a niche sport that the majority of participants are middle class white people, its not like skateboarding or surfing, which aren't even close to as popular as any other sport in the world (ie soccer, football, basketball). I think we need to ease up on the shaming.

eheathI think another thing most people don't think about is that the majority of POC probably don't want to ski, most white people don't even ski.

Skiing is a niche sport that the majority of participants are middle class white people, its not like skateboarding or surfing, which aren't even close to as popular as any other sport in the world (ie soccer, football, basketball). I think we need to ease up on the shaming.

WormracerYo,

That was probably the dumbest shit you have ever said.

Think about it for a minute and maybe edit that post before other people see it, and if you need me to explain it you are most definitely part of the fucking problem.

pinkcamo1000all I gotta say is I skied at a super cheap rope tow park for the first time recently and it was also the first time I've skied park with a visible person of color.

coincidence? definitely not. make skiing cheap and diversity will follow

WormracerYo,

That was probably the dumbest shit you have ever said.

Think about it for a minute and maybe edit that post before other people see it, and if you need me to explain it you are most definitely part of the fucking problem.

eheathI think you're just reading it in a negative context for some reason, what was so bad about it? Skiing is a niche sport, most people don't ski and don't have a desire to ski, regardless of race, that's literally what I said. There are thousands of white people who live in SLC, one of the most ski-accessible city's, who have never skied in their life and don't intend on skiing.

appait's such a double-edged sword. yes, it's important to increase representation of people of marginalized identities, but that ought to be in positions of power as well as in imagery used for advertising. I see the value in giving positive feedback to companies who are taking steps in the right direction, but I also see the very real possible outcomes that face folks who might show up to a place like Big Sky or any other super homogenous place expecting to see folks with shared identities. For example, I teach at an independent school in Colorado and every semester I speak with students of color who are overwhelmed by how many white people they are surrounded by when they show up because all of the marketing material they were showed made the place seem more diverse than it is in reality.

I think the first thing a place like Big Sky should do is pay a person of color who is an expert on diversity and social equity and justice to do some consulting and give them structures to implement and follow (and actually fucking listen to) because otherwise there will be someone making impactful decisions to "increase diversity" who, like @eheath earlier in this thread, is "not sure tokenism is even a thing anymore," that could potentially increase harm done to underrepresented folks while also checking the corporate box of "doing diversity work" and wondering what went wrong.

appaI think the first thing a place like Big Sky should do is pay a person of color who is an expert on diversity and social equity and justice to do some consulting and give them structures to implement and follow (and actually fucking listen to) because otherwise there will be someone making impactful decisions to "increase diversity" who, like @eheath earlier in this thread, is "not sure tokenism is even a thing anymore," that could potentially increase harm done to underrepresented folks while also checking the corporate box of "doing diversity work" and wondering what went wrong.

Notaskibumtbh ns is probably whiter than big sky

eheathI didn't mean to come of brash, to me tokenism is putting someone of a certain race into a situation where it's obvious they're being injected into the situation to create diversity. This is a norm for advertising, brands literally get called out on social media if they only have white people in their ads, but then if they include other races, they're now just tokens? Maybe it's just the word itself that isn't the best way to describe the way race is represented in advertising.

Skier-JonI feel as if its different when most of these brands that "get called out on social media if they only have white people in their ads" already have a much more diverse consumer demo than the ski industry, so accurately representing the people who consume their product feels more honest to me while putting POC into ski content feels a bit more like tokenism. On that note some people (yourself included) have brought up that including them in these marketing materials might make them feel more welcome, which I'm all for. I guess it all comes down to what their intent is, and thats where I think the mentioned idea of a POC diversity consultant might help them do that in good taste.