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Benefits of using look pivots

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assfvkr
Posts: 13 - Karma: -142
Are there any noticeable differences between pivots and other bindings on the market or is it just to look cool?
Mar 20 2021 6:48PM
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WoFlowz
Posts: 7981 - Karma: 64,138
Pleasure
Mar 20 2021 6:50PM
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armchair_skier
Posts: 2369 - Karma: 30,040
The brakes bend every time I land switch, the forward pressure adjustment is ass, the heel piece can fuck you in the ass etc etc.

But I still swear by them %110.
Mar 20 2021 6:55PM
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steeznszn
Posts: 16 - Karma: 154
You get a free prostate exam if you fall wrong enough.
Mar 20 2021 7:17PM
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assfvkr
Posts: 13 - Karma: -142
Comments like yours is what spurred my curiosity about them
armchair_skierThe brakes bend every time I land switch, the forward pressure adjustment is ass, the heel piece can fuck you in the ass etc etc.

But I still swear by them %110.
Mar 20 2021 7:19PM
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tdollo
Posts: 3807 - Karma: 18,907
Great binding to ski on due to tight hole pattern and closeness to the ski. Shitty binding to work on due to the forward pressure indicator doing ABSOLUTELY jack shit; replacement brakes costing 120$ and full-ribbed dildo that penetrates deeper than jonny sins on angle dust. That being said i only ride pivots
Mar 20 2021 7:23PM
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retersonskis
Posts: 52 - Karma: 479
yea no thanks I think I'll stick with my Attack 13s
Mar 20 2021 7:48PM
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asparagus
Posts: 2489 - Karma: 28,374
Preps you for when you drop the soap in prison
Mar 20 2021 8:03PM
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ericforman
Posts: 722 - Karma: 6,212
Being slightly more annoying to click into than my sths is the real winner for them
Mar 20 2021 9:09PM
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Awelterego
Posts: 167 - Karma: 1,434
When you release it’s actually orgasmic. Like you get absolutely wrecked landing in the flats, and the only thing you’re thinking as you sit up is how sexy that lateral release felt.
Mar 20 2021 9:49PM
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fucintight
Posts: 279 - Karma: 745
bc i fall
Mar 20 2021 10:37PM
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animator
Posts: 4556 - Karma: 26,293
AwelteregoWhen you release it’s actually orgasmic. Like you get absolutely wrecked landing in the flats, and the only thing you’re thinking as you sit up is how sexy that lateral release felt.


THEY DONT HAVE LATERAL RELEASE
Mar 20 2021 11:04PM
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ericforman
Posts: 722 - Karma: 6,212
*in the heel

but it does pivot so it’s harder to click into
animatorTHEY DONT HAVE LATERAL RELEASE
Mar 20 2021 11:13PM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2534 - Karma: 9,927
Ridden Attacks, STH 16's, Griffons, and Pivots. Only ride Pivots on all my skis now. Who knows why Pivots have the special sauce.
Mar 20 2021 11:22PM
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gorbdawggybrent
Posts: 970 - Karma: 8,769
animatorTHEY DONT HAVE LATERAL RELEASE


lol i love seeing you nerdz get mad at this over and over
heel piece goes spinny, ok???
Mar 21 2021 1:30AM
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f100prerunner
Posts: 504 - Karma: 1,313
Pretty sure they have the highest amount of elasticity allowing for lower dins without pre release
Mar 21 2021 2:59AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 7094 - Karma: 62,215
Your username makes me think you’d like pivots.

But yeah, its elasticity. They keep you from getting kicked out on high impacts - which is nice. You can save a lot of near misses.
Mar 21 2021 6:31AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 611 - Karma: 6,610
The turntable heel reduces the pressure on your knees if you're falling, heading toward a lateral release and your weight is back. Just having that little extra direction of movement could be the difference between a season ending fall and just a regular slam.

That combined with the elasticity of the heel, which makes a vertical release a more progressive action rather than with other bindings, which can be more of an ejector seat button getting pushed, gives you a fraction of a second to prepare for a release rather than being thrown out your bindings.

Are they the pinnacle of binding technology, no, do I like them, yes.

There are a bunch of things they could do, but it seems their r&d budget only stretches to new paint and keeping up with boot norms, that or there is a strong "if its not broke, don't fix it" vibe going on at look/rossi (which I can respect, developing a safety device like a binding must be hella €€€).
Mar 21 2021 7:37AM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,380
FaunaSkisThe turntable heel reduces the pressure on your knees if you're falling, heading toward a lateral release and your weight is back. Just having that little extra direction of movement could be the difference between a season ending fall and just a regular slam.


That's not true, at all.
Mar 21 2021 7:52AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 611 - Karma: 6,610
SessionThat's not true, at all.

Well I have been sorely misled then.
Mar 21 2021 8:05AM
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animator
Posts: 4556 - Karma: 26,293
SessionThat's not true, at all.


It’s not entirely true. People mistake the pivot having “lateral release,” because the idea behind the turntable heel is what everyone has already said, and to quote Fauna, it also helps in the case of, “backwards, twisting falls.”
Mar 21 2021 8:08AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 611 - Karma: 6,610
I missed a word on my op. I meant to write lateral TOE release. I know the heel doesn’t allow for a lateral release, only the knee binding, and I think the kingpin have any form of lateral heel release. My point/thought was that as the boot toe moves laterally to release it’s rotating with the turntable of the heel, not just twisting out of a fixed heel piece, which reduces stress on the knee. Happy to be wrong and learn if my understanding of binding release is incomplete.
Mar 21 2021 8:20AM
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alpineplease
Posts: 2797 - Karma: 1,804
You can sit on them on flat out runs for aero tuck
Mar 21 2021 11:24AM
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Icant_kfed
Posts: 1279 - Karma: 11,588
taking the heel piece up the ass is always great, blowing brakes landing switch, and your better off mounting a new binding than trying to click back in in powder, but you don’t pre release and they look sick so i’m gonna keep spending 300 on them
Mar 21 2021 11:59AM
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Awelterego
Posts: 167 - Karma: 1,434
animatorTHEY DONT HAVE LATERAL RELEASE


Chill nerd I just mean twisting falls.

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2021 at 12:42:47pm
Mar 21 2021 12:40PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
Pros: historically reliable release, bomber all metal construction, dildo heel, single-piece toe, low stack height, narrow mounting pattern

Cons: heavy, complex forward pressure adjustment, little BSL range, finicky/fragile/complicated/expensive brakes

Completely my personal preference based purely on feel, but I've always liked Pivot/Jester dildo style heels better than the more traditional Solly, Tyrolia, etc-style. Having the a vertical DIN spring push directly down on your boot, rather than a horizontal spring whose force has to be rotated and reoriented to clamp down on your boot, feels better when riding and less jarring when releasing. I feel the same way about Pivot and STH2 style toe pieces that rotate and release as a single unit versus those that release via two independent "wings." The actual pivoting feature of Pivots might be mostly bullshit, but it certainly can't hurt.

I do think it's pretty disappointing that Look has never been able to improve on the original design despite multiple attempts. In the early 2000s they tried to keep the pivoting action but improve weight and adjustability with the Axial series (which was also called the "Pivot" for a while), but they overdid it. They replaced too many metal parts with plastic, ending up with bindings that constantly blew to pieces. Next they tried to fix the forward pressure issue with the PX series but lost the pivot, narrow mounting pattern, and low stack height. In my own experience, PXs also blew to pieces pretty easily

Even if Look has settled into an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kind of mentality with the Pivot and don't feel like making any more attempts at full Pivot redesigns there are any number of running changes that seem doable. Magnesium parts to save weight. A redesigned brake/half-moon that can be replaced without completely disassembling the heel. Some sort of BSL adjustability plate. They're great as-is, but not perfect.

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2021 at 12:45:01pm
Mar 21 2021 12:43PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
Explanation: “narrow” mounting pattern being a pro refers to the distance between the screws from front to back, i.e. there are no mounting screws behind your boot heel.

A from-the-ground-up redesign could actually do with a wider screw pattern from side to side to increase power transfer on modern, wide skis.
Mar 21 2021 1:29PM
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elm.
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 13,602
They're the only binding that works with cast, so arguably the safest touring binding.
Mar 21 2021 1:41PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
best binding you can buy. needs a replaceable brake that retracts.
Mar 21 2021 1:50PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6704 - Karma: 11,274
AwelteregoChill nerd I just mean twisting falls.

**This post was edited on Mar 21st 2021 at 12:42:47pm


Which is every other binding on the market too. Even Look/Rossi says the Pivot binding does not reduce ACL injuries.
Mar 21 2021 2:48PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
onenerdykidWhich is every other binding on the market too. Even Look/Rossi says the Pivot binding does not reduce ACL injuries.


I still don't understand why Marker doesn't try to integrate the Kingpin's lateral releasing heel into the Jester line. I know there are some weird leverage things to work out when you combine laterally releasing toes with heels, but that seems like a potential game-changer in the alpine binding world.
Mar 21 2021 3:20PM
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animator
Posts: 4556 - Karma: 26,293
BurritoI still don't understand why Marker doesn't try to integrate the Kingpin's lateral releasing heel into the Jester line. I know there are some weird leverage things to work out when you combine laterally releasing toes with heels, but that seems like a potential game-changer in the alpine binding world.


Because it isn’t necessary. The Kingpin needed lateral release in the heel since it doesn’t have it in the toe. Obviously neither do any other tech bindings besides Fritschi’s bindings, but they marketed it as a 50/50 binding, so it needed lateral release, and it was easier to integrate that into the heel than the toe. Lateral release in the heel really isn’t that necessary, Knee bindings main marketing point is that it’s great for skiers with ACL/other knee injuries. If you have a bad knee, lower your DINs and don’t ski as hard, which is easily accomplished on any other binding.
Mar 21 2021 3:54PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
animatorBecause it isn’t necessary. The Kingpin needed lateral release in the heel since it doesn’t have it in the toe. Obviously neither do any other tech bindings besides Fritschi’s bindings, but they marketed it as a 50/50 binding, so it needed lateral release, and it was easier to integrate that into the heel than the toe. Lateral release in the heel really isn’t that necessary, Knee bindings main marketing point is that it’s great for skiers with ACL/other knee injuries. If you have a bad knee, lower your DINs and don’t ski as hard, which is easily accomplished on any other binding.


Not exactly. In a lot of crashes that tear ACLs, i.e. back-weighted twisting falls, because all of your weight is on your heels and behind there's not enough lateral torque on the toe to release even a low DIN. I get that they put it into the Kingpin because of the lack of true toe release, but there is a real benefit to lateral heel release on an alpine binding if you're specifically looking at preventing ACL injuries. The Knee Binding is a 5-lb pile of garbage, but it does do what it says it does. If Marker could incorporate that kind of tech into a legit binding, it would be a marked increase in safety from a category that hasn't seen any in 30+ years.
Mar 21 2021 4:05PM
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iced
Posts: 3070 - Karma: 17,976
im glad I found this thread, I thought I was the only one who would assbang their pivots after a hard day of skiing
Mar 21 2021 7:58PM
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colorado_frenchy
Posts: 198 - Karma: 1,329
BurritoNot exactly. In a lot of crashes that tear ACLs, i.e. back-weighted twisting falls, because all of your weight is on your heels and behind there's not enough lateral torque on the toe to release even a low DIN. I get that they put it into the Kingpin because of the lack of true toe release, but there is a real benefit to lateral heel release on an alpine binding if you're specifically looking at preventing ACL injuries. The Knee Binding is a 5-lb pile of garbage, but it does do what it says it does. If Marker could incorporate that kind of tech into a legit binding, it would be a marked increase in safety from a category that hasn't seen any in 30+ years.


It's true that if you exclude touring/hybrid bindings and boot compatibility updates (GripWalk and cie) they're hasn't been any innovation in a long time.

To be fair I don't think I'd be stoked if they changed the Pivots, and not to start a capitalism/liberalism debate but it might be one of the few industry adopting the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy rather than adding gimmicky "innovations" to boost sales
Mar 21 2021 8:17PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
colorado_frenchyIt's true that if you exclude touring/hybrid bindings and boot compatibility updates (GripWalk and cie) they're hasn't been any innovation in a long time.

To be fair I don't think I'd be stoked if they changed the Pivots, and not to start a capitalism/liberalism debate but it might be one of the few industry adopting the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy rather than adding gimmicky "innovations" to boost sales


I'm actually with you there. I work as a product designer - occasionally in the snow industry - and it's a goal of mine whenever possible to create timeless solutions. That is, solutions that eventually fall into the categories of "if it ain't broke, don't fit it" or "you can't build a better mouse trap" (note: that's really fucking hard to actually accomplish.)

That said, I just don't believe those categories can ever truly apply until you create something perfect - which we all know the Pivot is not. Look has simply taken the position that since people are willing to accept their imperfect product, why bother improving it?

Good on them for sticking to their guns, I guess, but it's also kind of a middle finger to the consumer. It's Look more or less saying, "You have problems A, B, and C with our product. We hear you. It's not worth our time and money to fix them."
Mar 21 2021 8:33PM
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lilnoid666
Posts: 379 - Karma: 738
just get pivots mf
Mar 21 2021 9:36PM
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colorado_frenchy
Posts: 198 - Karma: 1,329
BurritoI'm actually with you there. I work as a product designer - occasionally in the snow industry - and it's a goal of mine whenever possible to create timeless solutions. That is, solutions that eventually fall into the categories of "if it ain't broke, don't fit it" or "you can't build a better mouse trap" (note: that's really fucking hard to actually accomplish.)

That said, I just don't believe those categories can ever truly apply until you create something perfect - which we all know the Pivot is not. Look has simply taken the position that since people are willing to accept their imperfect product, why bother improving it?

Good on them for sticking to their guns, I guess, but it's also kind of a middle finger to the consumer. It's Look more or less saying, "You have problems A, B, and C with our product. We hear you. It's not worth our time and money to fix them."


I guess we'll never see Pivots with brakes that don't catch when you ride switch lol
Mar 22 2021 2:59AM
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