Attention: park crews

If we build shit that nobody hits we barely need to rake or groom them

this is def a problem at some mountains

all anybody really wants is a bunch of simple down rails and flat rails, with a few others mixed in. And jumps don't have to be gigantic, a properly built poppy 20 foot table gives you plenty of air to do tricks on

Just be better.

But for real, people who are at the hill regularly, get very bored of the same flat and down bars.

theabortionatorIf we build shit that nobody hits we barely need to rake or groom them

/thread
If anyone says anything other than this they are lying.

ndyeJust be better.

But for real, people who are at the hill regularly, get very bored of the same flat and down bars.

ok I can accept the chirp about being shitty at skiing but that doesn't mean I don't ski a lot

I appreciate combo features. As long as they don’t get super big or they’re built the right way. Like if you’re going to build an elbow rail out of two staple rails, don’t build it with such a sharp angle that you’re going to get yeeted on the second staple if you come off wrong. Small and medium combo features are prolly more fun than big ass combo features.

Sorta unrelated but my park has one beautiful fat tube that everyone loves and they decided to stick it at the end of a 50 meter flat at the end of the park so nobody can hike it :( park crew why you gotta do that

Sometimes our supervisor/manager calls the shots

THANOSDOGFARTSorta unrelated but my park has one beautiful fat tube that everyone loves and they decided to stick it at the end of a 50 meter flat at the end of the park so nobody can hike it :( park crew why you gotta do that

Have you tried talking to the park crew about it? I’ve been skiing at Tremblant this season and noticed some weird decisions park wise. I brought them up to staff in a nice and friendly way and they either explained their reasoning, took my advice, or said it wasn’t up to them.

But they were more than willing to change things when they could because at the end of the day they’re stoked on building parks people enjoy riding.

NotaskibumWhy do y'all spend so much time making complex features that no one hits???

Maybe I'm just bad at park skiing but you spend all this effort to create features like a tube to dfd rail to curved rail that literally no one outside of tom walnuts can hit properly and building 50 ft kickers that three people hit per day.

THAT BUILD SOUNDS FUN AS FUCK WHAT ARE U SMOKIN????

Krotchs_BrotherHave you tried talking to the park crew about it? I’ve been skiing at Tremblant this season and noticed some weird decisions park wise. I brought them up to staff in a nice and friendly way and they either explained their reasoning, took my advice, or said it wasn’t up to them.

But they were more than willing to change things when they could because at the end of the day they’re stoked on building parks people enjoy riding.

I’ve been skiing at Edelweiss and earlier in the season they had the tube set up in a hike-able location and there used to be always 5-20 skiers hiking it which pissed off all the snowboarders. I’m guessing either the snowboarders complained or they got worried that too many people in the same spot could get them in trouble with corona. Either way I’ll ask the park crew today because there aren’t any other good rails to learn stuff on.

THANOSDOGFARTI’ve been skiing at Edelweiss and earlier in the season they had the tube set up in a hike-able location and there used to be always 5-20 skiers hiking it which pissed off all the snowboarders. I’m guessing either the snowboarders complained or they got worried that too many people in the same spot could get them in trouble with corona. Either way I’ll ask the park crew today because there aren’t any other good rails to learn stuff on.

Loool I read "tube in the middle of a 50ft flat" and immediately thought of Edelwiess thank u for confirming.

I will say I like the tube better this year vs. last year when it was super steep and barely trickable

Alright. So this is a dicussion that comes up a lot in various forms.

One important thing is that every mountain is different. Sugarbush could have a plaza setup or mammoth could have a booter that are each fucking perfectly built but might be a terrible feature at a small mtn with a beginner park cliental.


2 ways this can become an issue is that people like to hype up bigger features. Being somebody who has asked, and seen mtns ask, threads about this, most people or at least the mob will push for bigger features. Nobody will ask for more down or flat rails. It's a z tube, s rail, dfdfd, 50'down rail. Loop de loop elbow left donkey tube.

Sure I'm exaggerating slightly but I've seen it a bunch and the features that are hit a ton at those mtns are the mellow flat and down rails. People hiking them with friends getting spins on and off.

In the flip side of this sometimes you have the park crew doing the same. Building features that look sick af, attract attention, but maybe nobody at the mtn or only a small percentage are actually good enough to hit.

I mean let's be honest, you don't see many people sharing the pictures of the new baby box/rail line at a mtn the way they would a perfectly sculpted 65' booter.


Mountains in general are investing heavily in beginner parks thwae days though. Thwre qas a point where a lot of mtns had only a few features. Sometimes they were fucking big. You had to go from, "I've never hit a rail" to "i guess ill send it on that 20' single tube set high because the only other rail is an s rail or super steep rainbow rail borderline pole jam entry.

I'm not sure if it was the growth of the sport, savage will to huck it, but the sport still grew at those places in those periods. Still a huge barrier for entry and kept a lot of people from ever hitting a rail.

Anyway things are changing, some mtns are still building shit too big. Some haven't built enough new stuff and just have the older larger features. I remember when a 16' flat box was a beginner feature. Sure they arent necessarily wrong. But instead of that 16'er set 1.5' high were seeing 8-12' features set nuch lower. Flat boxes, up boxes, dance floors, 6" flat bars, short fatty tubes, etc. This makes going from my first feature, to hitting medium size single tube down and flat rails way smoother. There a linear progression and that can help keep people motivated as they hit that down rail for the first time, and then set their eyes on the bigger one. Keep people from getting broke off, and keep things fun.
At northstar we had a pretty killer small park. Sometimes we'd squad up and relearn tricks, learn new tricks, or try and huck stupidly big tricks on baby features. It was actually super fun.

I'm going to be building some smaller boxes and rails for Crystal this off season. Pretty stoked because our smallest box is 16' maybe bigger.

The biggest thing is figuring out the demographic, figuring out the goal of where you want the park to go even in the short term(a couple of seasons) and then build features that the better riders can enjoy but also progress the newer ones and get those people on the outside of the ropeline to start coming in.


Good kids can still have fun on a 20' flat rail or down rail. I remember sugarbush saying they weren't going to build any jumps over 30 or 35 because they didnt need to, and honestly they really didn't.

Big park features can be kind of like night skiing. It's great to have the option in various regions, but not every mtn needs it.

Some places have a low vert, and shitty snow and park is the only draw. Thise places might build more rowdy parks even if the guests suck, and in many of those cases the locals start to get pretty good. At a 3k mountain with sick lines, a big park might not be the move. You have so many other options. You dont need to hit that crazy rail contraption ever.


I'm a big believer in the challenge rail from time to time though. Sometimes even if most of your features are pretty tame it's cool to put in that combo that even if not hit a ton gives people that optuon to try to conquer it. Or get a sick trick through it. This could be as simple as two boxes or the bigger, z tube to dfd donkey tube festures.

Idk at the end of the day it will never be completely perfect, there will always be haters even if it was, and all you can do is make the best of your resources to make the most fun park that works for a bunch of your guests.

I get what you're saying, it's about being 'different' than other mountains but sometime you just want some chill features to learn shit on that isn't a tiny rail in the beginner park. I'm all for challenge rails and crazy set ups but there has to be a balance with the basics. I'm usually the first one on the crew to test the crazy stuff but still always advocating for some more reasonable features. If we're going to have a plaza with s rail, waterfall, elbow, and a 50 footer there has to be like a flatbar or something as an option. If all I'm doing is sliding rails with maybe a 2 out on a given run it's just not as fun.

This is why medium parks are so hype. Confidence because you know that they’re gonna put anything fucked in the big park but still tons to do. At least that’s how I feel about Loon right now.

LJboiI get what you're saying, it's about being 'different' than other mountains but sometime you just want some chill features to learn shit on that isn't a tiny rail in the beginner park. I'm all for challenge rails and crazy set ups but there has to be a balance with the basics. I'm usually the first one on the crew to test the crazy stuff but still always advocating for some more reasonable features. If we're going to have a plaza with s rail, waterfall, elbow, and a 50 footer there has to be like a flatbar or something as an option. If all I'm doing is sliding rails with maybe a 2 out on a given run it's just not as fun.

I have a million posts on here saying maybe you should build more flat rails and not a dfdfd.

Im not saying build a challenge rail when you have 4 features.

You gotta build out the standards first.

theabortionatorI have a million posts on here saying maybe you should build more flat rails and not a dfdfd.

Im not saying build a challenge rail when you have 4 features.

You gotta build out the standards first.

Yeah, I wasn't saying we only have 4 features, just talking about a specific plaza where those are the only options. If you're not super comfortable with rails you're just going to have to skip it all together which kinda sucks for people who have outgrown the mini park but aren't ready for bigger stuff.

@Woodward Eldora

theabortionatorIf we build shit that nobody hits we barely need to rake or groom them

And when you build a sick rail section Jerry’s come and sidejumps shit with their moms lmao

willyGGAnd when you build a sick rail section Jerry’s come and sidejumps shit with their moms lmao

Park crew workers that get salty at people for side jumping are lame as fuck. Sure if the person isnt following park etiquette and creating a dangerous situation they should be talked to. Raking lips isnt hard, just shut up and do your job or get better at skiing so ruts dont bother you. Sorry for the rant been working park crew part and full time for the past 10 years and get sick of people making these comments all the time.

TOAST.Park crew workers that get salty at people for side jumping are lame as fuck. Sure if the person isnt following park etiquette and creating a dangerous situation they should be talked to. Raking lips isnt hard, just shut up and do your job or get better at skiing so ruts dont bother you. Sorry for the rant been working park crew part and full time for the past 10 years and get sick of people making these comments all the time.

But why would you even side jump? Just jump over the rail if you don’t want to hit it... And these are the same people that rides around doing pizzas in the landings and slowly rides over kickers. For an example, if I wanted to throw backies I wouldn’t be in the racers area

willyGGBut why would you even side jump? Just jump over the rail if you don’t want to hit it... And these are the same people that rides around doing pizzas in the landings and slowly rides over kickers. For an example, if I wanted to throw backies I wouldn’t be in the racers area

People like catching air man. Sure they could jump over the rail, but these people dont live and breath skiing like you and I, they are just trying to have fun and as long as they are being safe, let em be. I'd rather have somebody side jumping the lips than randomly skiing through because their line is at least similar to someone actually hitting rails.

Well you have point in the lines stuff gonna give it to you!

bertBertsonLoool I read "tube in the middle of a 50ft flat" and immediately thought of Edelwiess thank u for confirming.

I will say I like the tube better this year vs. last year when it was super steep and barely trickable

I actually feel stupid now, I was there today and found out that it’s very possible to hike the red tube and I ended up learning several new tricks on it. And yeah, I also like how they set it up this year more than last year.

willyGGBut why would you even side jump? Just jump over the rail if you don’t want to hit it... And these are the same people that rides around doing pizzas in the landings and slowly rides over kickers. For an example, if I wanted to throw backies I wouldn’t be in the racers area

As much as I don’t like side jumping, giving kids the freedom to get air in parks eventually leads them to becoming park skiers. If 10 year old me had been told by a scary park rat to not side jump, I would have stopped going in the park and never would have tried to hit a real jump or slide a box.


Last week I was about to drop into the main rail line and this kid asked me which jump I was going to hit which confused me until I realized he was talking about hitting a rail lip.


I could have told the kid not to side jump but instead I said “cool, but whenever you feel like it try sliding the box because it’s more fun.” Guys, to little kids you’re really scary, but if you make a good impression on them you can nudge them in the right direction.

THANOSDOGFARTAs much as I don’t like side jumping, giving kids the freedom to get air in parks eventually leads them to becoming park skiers. If 10 year old me had been told by a scary park rat to not side jump, I would have stopped going in the park and never would have tried to hit a real jump or slide a box.


Last week I was about to drop into the main rail line and this kid asked me which jump I was going to hit which confused me until I realized he was talking about hitting a rail lip.


I could have told the kid not to side jump but instead I said “cool, but whenever you feel like it try sliding the box because it’s more fun.” Guys, to little kids you’re really scary, but if you make a good impression on them you can nudge them in the right direction.

I couldn't agree more. Major hot take but I actually really like seeing a little kid just hit a lip of a rail.

Because at least they are in the park and have an interest to jib something. People saying that it ruins the lips are also over exaggerating imo. As long as they actually catch some air and not ride over it, its practically the same as if they were using it to hit the rail.

“Hey park crew, no hard features pls!! >:(“

I honestly used to also have this take but having some more experience I definitely appreciate more challenging features. Obviously different people of different abilities will have different preferences. I rarely can make it to the end of a crazy challenge rail but it's so fun to try. Nothing like greasing a rail that has taken you a lot of tries, I promise it's worth it!

TOAST.Park crew workers that get salty at people for side jumping are lame as fuck. Sure if the person isnt following park etiquette and creating a dangerous situation they should be talked to. Raking lips isnt hard, just shut up and do your job or get better at skiing so ruts dont bother you. Sorry for the rant been working park crew part and full time for the past 10 years and get sick of people making these comments all the time.

Meh. If you're out there trying to keep everything perfect it's going to annoy you. Also you like to see the park getting ridden properly.


There's also a difference begween getting annoyed that a bunch of people sidejumped a feature and screaming at kids for doing it.

I've ever seen features get a huge berm going to the side ir both sides in a rail takeoff from repeat sidejumping in softer snow.

I don't think you should let it get you too upset but I don't buy the argument that you should be stoked on it.

theabortionatorMeh. If you're out there trying to keep everything perfect it's going to annoy you. Also you like to see the park getting ridden properly.


There's also a difference begween getting annoyed that a bunch of people sidejumped a feature and screaming at kids for doing it.

I've ever seen features get a huge berm going to the side ir both sides in a rail takeoff from repeat sidejumping in softer snow.

I don't think you should let it get you too upset but I don't buy the argument that you should be stoked on it.

Was the feature that shitty/above everyone's ability that it had that many more people side jumping than hitting it proper?
I get trying to keep stuff looking nice but i got inconsistent weather to bitch at for that not lasting. If you dont want to be stoked on it that's fine, but it's really not that big of a deal.

LJboiYeah, I wasn't saying we only have 4 features, just talking about a specific plaza where those are the only options. If you're not super comfortable with rails you're just going to have to skip it all together which kinda sucks for people who have outgrown the mini park but aren't ready for bigger stuff.

At every day parks at mountains I'd try to build plaza with an easier feature mixed in. Plazas are fun and look fun. Cool when you can get errbody involved.


I feel like other than maybe at mtns that have s billion features for every step there's always that awkward time of hitting everything in the smaller park but only being able to hit a few features in the bigger park. If nothing else sometimes just from lack of confidence.

Idk. Every place is different ill shut up now.

TOAST.Was the feature that shitty/above everyone's ability that it had that many more people side jumping than hitting it proper?
I get trying to keep stuff looking nice but i got inconsistent weather to bitch at for that not lasting. If you dont want to be stoked on it that's fine, but it's really not that big of a deal.

No, I've seen it other times but the one I'm thinking of was a 16' flat down rail at gore set up pretty low. Some people just like to sidejump.

Also I've been hit a few times raking, and nearly got hit another time but luckily they just hit my board and broke it.


Idk. Different folks differrnt strokes but I feel like people have flipped to hard on this one. Also some of the bigger court cases in terrain parks have been sidejumping.

Again I'm not yelling at people from the lift, chasing people down and slaping them. Do whatever, I just dont agree at all that if you dislike sidejumping you're somehow wrong.

I undserstand that it's snow it's going to need to get raked and groomed everyday. But in terms of parks is you're side jumping you're doing it wrong, that's a straight fact. Do i care that much, not really.

theabortionatorI remember when a 16' flat box was a beginner feature.

first rail I did was like 18' or something, that was the smallest rail in the whole park.

pinkcamo1000first rail I did was like 18' or something, that was the smallest rail in the whole park.

Them was a different time. I guess on the plus having no park and then eventuslly going to ride the shittiest parks at other mtns gave me motivation to build better parks.

But damn the "your in the park or you're not" had a pretty sharp learning curve. There's a sketchy 35' booter and a 20 foot rail. Good luck