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Do on3ps generally have flexible torsional rigidity?

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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
Every time i see a skier on on3ps trying to lean into a carve they like spread their legs pretty far apart and look kind of tentative as iff they cant trust the ski not to twist and wash out when they are carving at a steep angle.

do on3ps have like really soft torsional rigidity?

**This thread was edited on Mar 9th 2021 at 7:36:55pm
Mar 9 2021 7:36PM
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EPfanboy
Posts: 477 - Karma: 3,441
Torsional rigidity on On3p Jeffrey's i would say if we did a scale out of 10 it would be a 4 or 3 out of 10. I dont know about the other On3p models though.
I have to say mister Dolan i have been very impressed with your questions about skis recently.
Mar 9 2021 8:21PM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 6,997
No. They seem petty standard to me.

ive ridden other torsionally softer skis and you can tell a difference.


eg.
4frnt crj
salomon rocker2 108

as compared to Jeffrey, caylor, and billy
goat.

**This post was edited on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:24:47pm
Mar 9 2021 8:21PM
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EPfanboy
Posts: 477 - Karma: 3,441
shin-bangNo. They seem petty standard to me.

ive ridden other torsionally softer skis and you can tell a difference.


eg.
4frnt crj
salomon rocker2 108

as compared to Jeffrey, caylor, and billy
goat.

**This post was edited on Mar 9th 2021 at 8:24:47pm


Can you upload a photo of your quiver it sounds hawt
Mar 9 2021 8:35PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
Haven't had a problem with my kartels. A little more camber and less rocker and they would rail turns in the icy conditions. As they are they still do pretty well, especially come slush season.
Mar 9 2021 9:43PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Compared to what exactly...
Mar 9 2021 9:52PM
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lilnoid666
Posts: 379 - Karma: 738
On3ps are a soft and playful ski, but I haven't heard anything bad about their torsional flex, at least not as bad as line blends or Vishnu, now those skis are really unstable torsionally, but it matters what you use them for. Sorry for the bad grammar.
Mar 9 2021 11:52PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
RudyGarmischCompared to what exactly...

I guess compared to a stiff stable park ski
Mar 10 2021 3:19AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6985 - Karma: 61,023
Do you mean compared to revolt 87s? Lol
DolansLebensraumI guess compared to a stiff stable park ski
Mar 10 2021 6:44AM
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MaimHelp
Posts: 1721 - Karma: 13,583
My mags carve well if there’s snow but are absolute ass if it’s hard snow. And the rocker leads to less edge hold
Mar 10 2021 7:59AM
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plugs
Posts: 107 - Karma: 419
My Kartels aren’t soft torsionally but they are definitely not as stiff as my slalom skis. The biggest issue is that a 186 has like a 149 effective edge and then they’re detuned under foot so you have like 100 cm of functional edge. Plus there’s a lot of taper so the skis don’t bite super hard when they’re leaned over.
Mar 10 2021 8:49AM
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DUKES
Posts: 5150 - Karma: 691
My Jeffrey 108s have quite a bit of torsional rigidity from tip to tail. When carving you need a bit of speed to push them out of each turn never have a problem keeping my legs together and staying composed. If anything I preferred my Jeffrey 108 for laying down carves over my reckoner 102s which do have a bit of torsional flex in the tip/tail.
Mar 10 2021 10:15AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
I like to carve hard on groomers on my Jeffrey 114 and I rarely ever sharpen the edges, they are pretty good at that, i'd say I trust them.
Mar 10 2021 11:05AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6985 - Karma: 61,023
I just realized that you’re saying legs apart as if it’s a bad thing?


I was taught by a full cert instructor trainer that to shorten the radius of a turn, you can widen your stance and hike the inside leg up. I’m sure ex-racers can back me up here with more technical know how.
I think carves look better with a wide stance than a skinny stance.

The more I think about it, the more I’m not getting this stance thing you’re talking about.
Mar 10 2021 11:27AM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
BradFiAusNzCoCaI just realized that you’re saying legs apart as if it’s a bad thing?


I was taught by a full cert instructor trainer that to shorten the radius of a turn, you can widen your stance and hike the inside leg up. I’m sure ex-racers can back me up here with more technical know how.
I think carves look better with a wide stance than a skinny stance.

The more I think about it, the more I’m not getting this stance thing you’re talking about.


This is true. I have been being corrected by clinicians for work all season for having to narrow of a stance.
Mar 10 2021 11:37AM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,190
No.
Mar 10 2021 1:00PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
Depends what skis ur talking about, width, and also what bindings are on the skis. Don't forget the forces exerted are going to be distributed additionally across the surface your bindings encompass too, leaving very little room for torsional flex underfoot. Skis aren't snowboards so this flex you speak of is certainly minimal to not noticeable.

But yeah what model are you speaking of. Kartels or magnuses, marketed towards the park and freestyle crowd, who might not care to carve or know how to properly do it (no offense everyone, just a blanket statement)? Consider those models are likely heavily detuned limiting their carving cabability outside perfect snow. Or are we talking their chargier models?

Also what snow conditions are we talking? Perfect corderoy? Hard pack? Icy? Powder? I have wrenegade 96s. When my edges start to dull, I definitely have issues carving anything but soft snow because my edges are dull. Once they're sharp again I can set an edge on a groomer like a boss.

So I think you just need more data to disprove your hypothesis.
Mar 10 2021 2:51PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
Also like to add I have both Jeff and wrens. The jeffrey definitely requires a different stance and the carving aspect seems a bit different too. The wrenegade really let's you set it and get super low in a turn, like really low
Mar 10 2021 2:54PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
HypeBeastAlso like to add I have both Jeff and wrens. The jeffrey definitely requires a different stance and the carving aspect seems a bit different too. The wrenegade really let's you set it and get super low in a turn, like really low


Wrenegades fucking rip.
Mar 10 2021 3:08PM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,190
My OG Wrens fucking destroyed me.
Mar 10 2021 3:42PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
No.QuarterWrenegades fucking rip.


Yeah first time I really truly set an edge and carved I was like holy shit. There is a limit though to how far you can lean as I've found but I think that's my edge sharpness. They definitely don't perform like a good frontside narrow waisted carving ski but they can sure make you look like a boss in between boosting off natural features.

I have a love affair with my wrens. Don't even bring out my other skis cuz these are just so versatile and perfect for 95% of days.
Mar 10 2021 3:58PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
SessionMy OG Wrens fucking destroyed me.


What year were they I was rocking a pair of 2012 Wrens in 192cm, those things were the most fucking demanding skis I have ever been on, but when I was feelin strong and willing to charge as hard as possible they were perfect. Most of the time I was using all of my 145lbs of bodyweight to try to make jump turns in tight chutes and then straightlining.
Now I'm on the new ones in 114mm width and 184cm length which is so much more sensible.
Mar 10 2021 4:24PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
Also they were mounted waaaaaay behind recommended because they already had two sets of holes and it was the only place I could put more screws. So the tips were hilariously long and they probably didn't really ski like they were intended. Goddamn could they truck through crud though
Mar 10 2021 4:27PM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,190
No.QuarterWhat year were they I was rocking a pair of 2012 Wrens in 192cm, those things were the most fucking demanding skis I have ever been on, but when I was feelin strong and willing to charge as hard as possible they were perfect. Most of the time I was using all of my 145lbs of bodyweight to try to make jump turns in tight chutes and then straightlining.
Now I'm on the new ones in 114mm width and 184cm length which is so much more sensible.


I had 09/10 Wrens. But those 12 Wrens were the manliest ski ever to come out of that factory. Too much for me. I had actually forgot I even owned a Wren 98 at one point which I was trying to use as a replacement for the original Vicik. Which was a good fucking ski.
Mar 10 2021 5:23PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
SessionI had 09/10 Wrens. But those 12 Wrens were the manliest ski ever to come out of that factory. Too much for me. I had actually forgot I even owned a Wren 98 at one point which I was trying to use as a replacement for the original Vicik. Which was a good fucking ski.

What do you mean by manly?



i feel like by saying manly you are saying they arent user friendly. And i dont know why that would be a good thing unless you wanted everybody who saw you riding those skis to think you are a really good skier bc they are really hard skis to handle.

i dont want to trash on3p because alot of cool ppl build them and ride them, but i just dont really understand the whole right of passage shit. Like why would you not want a ski that makes everything easy?

the butterability and playfulness is cool i guess, but i like to be able to take a tight turn on a trail at mach 2 and know my edge is going to be there for me and not wash out and send me into the trees at 50 mph.
Mar 13 2021 5:22PM
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Jems
Posts: 7504 - Karma: 97,091
DUKESMy Jeffrey 108s have quite a bit of torsional rigidity from tip to tail. When carving you need a bit of speed to push them out of each turn never have a problem keeping my legs together and staying composed. If anything I preferred my Jeffrey 108 for laying down carves over my reckoner 102s which do have a bit of torsional flex in the tip/tail.


When i first got my 108s i thought something was wrong when i couldn’t turn easily on groomers and especially going slow. You really gotta fuckin gun it to get good carves in.
Mar 14 2021 3:16AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
No.QuarterWhat year were they I was rocking a pair of 2012 Wrens in 192cm, those things were the most fucking demanding skis I have ever been on, but when I was feelin strong and willing to charge as hard as possible they were perfect. Most of the time I was using all of my 145lbs of bodyweight to try to make jump turns in tight chutes and then straightlining.
Now I'm on the new ones in 114mm width and 184cm length which is so much more sensible.


Lmao 192 cm of ski at 145lbs. I love long skis but even that's pushing it haha that's beast mode man
Mar 14 2021 9:46AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
DolansLebensraumWhat do you mean by manly?



i feel like by saying manly you are saying they arent user friendly. And i dont know why that would be a good thing unless you wanted everybody who saw you riding those skis to think you are a really good skier bc they are really hard skis to handle.

i dont want to trash on3p because alot of cool ppl build them and ride them, but i just dont really understand the whole right of passage shit. Like why would you not want a ski that makes everything easy?

the butterability and playfulness is cool i guess, but i like to be able to take a tight turn on a trail at mach 2 and know my edge is going to be there for me and not wash out and send me into the trees at 50 mph.

To put it simply they just work best when you can open them up and just step on the gas pedal. They are a big long stiff heavy ski so obviously they are more difficult to move around at slow speeds, but not impossible. A ski that’s “user friendly” is not easy to ski when you are trying to go as fast as possible in difficult terrain. The wren the type of ski that encourages you to find the fastest way down difficult terrain.

I’d liken it to driving a high horsepower car with no power steering
Mar 14 2021 12:19PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
No.QuarterI’d liken it to driving a high horsepower car with no power steering

I'm gonna use this. Next time someone asks about my skis..
Mar 14 2021 1:47PM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,190
DolansLebensraumWhat do you mean by manly?



i feel like by saying manly you are saying they arent user friendly. And i dont know why that would be a good thing unless you wanted everybody who saw you riding those skis to think you are a really good skier bc they are really hard skis to handle.

i dont want to trash on3p because alot of cool ppl build them and ride them, but i just dont really understand the whole right of passage shit. Like why would you not want a ski that makes everything easy?

the butterability and playfulness is cool i guess, but i like to be able to take a tight turn on a trail at mach 2 and know my edge is going to be there for me and not wash out and send me into the trees at 50 mph.

Some people prefer stiff ski's with really long turn radiuses that require you to really drive the ski. Turns out I'm not one of those people, but they exist. Though the amount of people in to that type of ski seems to be getting smaller which is why you see less freeride ski's of this favor in the market. Demand just is not there anymore.
JemsWhen i first got my 108s i thought something was wrong when i couldn’t turn easily on groomers and especially going slow. You really gotta fuckin gun it to get good carves in.

I don't see this issue with that ski.
Mar 14 2021 9:55PM
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Jems
Posts: 7504 - Karma: 97,091
SessionSome people prefer stiff ski's with really long turn radiuses that require you to really drive the ski. Turns out I'm not one of those people, but they exist. Though the amount of people in to that type of ski seems to be getting smaller which is why you see less freeride ski's of this favor in the market. Demand just is not there anymore.

I don't see this issue with that ski.


I had the issue because i went from 90s to 108s and the change from park ski to all mtn ski raddled me.
Mar 14 2021 10:09PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
SessionSome people prefer stiff ski's with really long turn radiuses that require you to really drive the ski. Turns out I'm not one of those people, but they exist. Though the amount of people in to that type of ski seems to be getting smaller which is why you see less freeride ski's of this favor in the market. Demand just is not there anymore.

I don't see this issue with that ski.


I was a jabroni back when I lived in Portland and skied park skis. Spending a season on a Wrenegade a few years ago was like finding the key to room. A brilliant room; usually very windy, full of blurred trees, people and occasional screams. Go fast, take chances.
Mar 15 2021 10:55PM
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