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Does the Epic pass suck or is it great?

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Gmeister25
Posts: 152 - Karma: 1,110
On the one hand, Vail attracts tons of Jerrys raises prices and destroys small mountains, but on the other hand the prices become low for pass holders, and creates an excuse to travel to another mountain on the pass. In my experience, Vail took over my home mountain Stowe. Stowe was always a bit crowded but now with the pass the lines are outrageous, and there are even people who don't ski that take the gondola just as a ride. However, I've been able to use the pass as an excuse to travel and saves me money, without the pass I would have never gone to Colorado or Utah. But I think the biggest problem is that on smaller mountains in need of an infrastructure upgrade, they will never get one. At Stowe on the main mountain there is a Gondola, a highspeed quad, a two doubles, and a triple. No locals really use the Gondola as it is a Jerry trap and it's only good use is for the backcountry. The tollhouse double is also never used because it is way out of the way and only serves green trails. But the main problems are the Mountain Triple and Lookout Double, before Epic they were not a problem but with all of tourists the lines at the quad get ridiculous and the double and triple can't suffice, neither go to the top, and on the really cold days are too slow. I'm afraid that Epic won't upgrade them and a Stowe's popularity grows the lines will become too long and resort skiing will become less and less of an option.
Mar 1 2021 8:36PM
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cslascro
Posts: 21 - Karma: 222
Vail took over my mountain this year and it sucks. They dropped the child ticket age by one year, taking away my planned final year of skiing with the kid on a free pass. I didn't go with an annual pass because it was just too risky. Had it been the old smaller company, I probably would have risked it knowing they were pretty chill about mountain management--less chance they'd screw me with Covid stuff. But with Vail taking over their first year, and with my mountain across the state line, I had no idea how travel restrictions would be handled. Would the Vail bigwigs enforce Covid restrictions to the max to limit liability? Would Vail refund me or try to make things right? (probably not to the latter.) Instead, the Vail takeover this year (of all freakin years) made me stick with the devil I know and I planned to ski less this year at a farther away mountain that's not owned by Vail and is in my own state (so no worries about interstate travel restrictions). I skied the Vail-owned mountain a couple of weeks ago for the first time just to see what it's like--fine, but I didn't see any improvements worth the sticker price.

What's happening in the ski area/resort industry is a rapid consolidation. The pattern will be the same as it is in other industries: consolidation of ownership = consolidation of control = sure, just try to find another option, sucker. Ultimately, it will be fine for the 2 week per year resort visitor, but I think locals will face a tough battle against rising prices.

One old standard of business is "Never give'em a refund. Just offer more product." I think for us we're seeing that with the Epic pass. If you're a local skier with no plans or funds for a trip out west (I'm writing from an East Coaster's perspective), you'll just pay higher prices. If you can make the trip, you'll get more value. Personally, I really don't like that kind of division.
Mar 1 2021 9:06PM
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ericforman
Posts: 722 - Karma: 6,211
First off, vail resorts in CO suck and I can’t believe people still buy their pass unless they have a house there. All the resorts require the tunnel, parking / lodging is super expensive, the vibe is awful, and the terrain / snow / parks is no better than you can get without the BS. Copper / abasin / WP are superior for the non super wealthy. Crested butte access would be tight tho.

When I was on the east coast I do think vail made season passes more affordable. I think in theory they *could* be good if they cared more about skiing and less about building ice skating rinks, fancy shops, and steakhouses at their “resorts.”

tldr vail sucks but I don’t think mega passes (if in the right hands) have to be bad but in vails hands it’s bad.
Mar 1 2021 9:21PM
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BrightFrog
Posts: 593 - Karma: 1,676
vote with your wallet. get an Indy pass is more practical any way. Nobody is going 10 days at Whistler lol; epics product is so wack
Mar 1 2021 9:36PM
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cslascro
Posts: 21 - Karma: 222
The whole point of corporate consolidation is eliminating competition to shape the market. Anybody who still has the option to buy an annual pass that’s not a Epic or whatever the other big one is, go ahead. But enjoy it. They’ll take that option away as soon as they can.
Municipal007vote with your wallet. get an Indy pass is more practical any way. Nobody is going 10 days at Whistler lol; epics product is so wack
Mar 1 2021 11:28PM
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,861
Having a season pass to a mtn not on a big pass is nice but idk if I'd get an epic/ikon as my only pass unless it ends up being really convenient based on where I live. Had an ikon last year and got a lot of midweek days on a trip but didn't use a ton of days at a single resort, though it easily saved me on day ticket costs. Bought an ikon this year but deferred.
Mar 1 2021 11:34PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,939
Fuck Vail and Ikon. they ruined skiing.

But by all means, get one of those stupid passes, enjoy the long lift lines and stay away from wherever I'm skiing.
Mar 2 2021 12:31AM
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eheath
Posts: 61349 - Karma: 120,996
DingoSeanFuck Vail and Ikon. they ruined skiing.

But by all means, get one of those stupid passes, enjoy the long lift lines and stay away from wherever I'm skiing.


Kinda tough when you dont have an option, PC was already busy before Vail came so it wasnt a huge change here.
Mar 2 2021 12:33AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,939
eheathKinda tough when you dont have an option, PC was already busy before Vail came so it wasnt a huge change here.


Exactly why it fucking sucks. These passes have taken away the option for a lot of people, and imperialized a lot of ski towns...
Mar 2 2021 12:48AM
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eheath
Posts: 61349 - Karma: 120,996
DingoSeanExactly why it fucking sucks. These passes have taken away the option for a lot of people, and imperialized a lot of ski towns...


I mean not really, depends on where you live. i live in PC, so its the easiest place for me to go skiing, I dont mind an epic pass, its cheap. Only other option is a deer valley pass for $2200 or a pass in one of the cottonwoods an hour drive away for $1000. If anything, the epic pass makes it cheaper to ski at the resort you already ski at + gives you access to other resorts. I hate that vail makes resort busier, but you can't deny that cheaper access to skiing is better for the industry, I know the frustrations but getting mad about people skiing isn't the right thing to do IMO.
Mar 2 2021 12:53AM
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eheath
Posts: 61349 - Karma: 120,996
DingoSeanExactly why it fucking sucks. These passes have taken away the option for a lot of people, and imperialized a lot of ski towns...


also covid is making it worse, I've never seen PC this busy before, last year wasn't this bad but we had a record year. The real issue for most of the resorts is parking, not really lift lines/crowds, pre (and post) covid will go back to less lines but the parking/traffic will still be a problem.
Mar 2 2021 12:55AM
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cslascro
Posts: 21 - Karma: 222
There’s a major divide on this issue. For some places, epic might make it cheaper. But I’m guessing those are places that were already pretty expensive. For the small mountain crowd, who paid 700 or less for an annual pass, epic won’t help. As they mop up every little mini ski area, we’ll pay vail prices to ski tiny, icy hills. Vail knows what they’re doing. If they can jack up the prices at a small place and people still show up they win. If business dies, they just shut it down and there’s one less place for their profitable mountains to compete with.
eheathI mean not really, depends on where you live. i live in PC, so its the easiest place for me to go skiing, I dont mind an epic pass, its cheap. Only other option is a deer valley pass for $2200 or a pass in one of the cottonwoods an hour drive away for $1000. If anything, the epic pass makes it cheaper to ski at the resort you already ski at + gives you access to other resorts. I hate that vail makes resort busier, but you can't deny that cheaper access to skiing is better for the industry, I know the frustrations but getting mad about people skiing isn't the right thing to do IMO.
Mar 2 2021 7:00AM
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