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Vail blacklists all employee passes for the weekend

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chimpansteeze
Posts: 100 - Karma: 482
https://www.vaildaily.com/news/employee-passes-restricted-at-vail-this-weekend-reservations-full-uphill-access-closed/

Another feather in the cap of the sadness machine that is Vail Resorts. While we all probably thought something like this would go down seeing it actually happening is concerning. Not only does it set a precedent for other ski areas to follow suit, as they so often do with other vail policies, it sets us down a dangerous road to further restrictions. Oh you didn't book any nights at one of the company owned hotels? Sorry you cant ski this weekend. No private lesson booked? You cant ski on a powder day before noon. NOW trust me I know the probability of any of this happening in this season or any other is extremely low, but the path is clear and you can bet something along these lines have been discussed in boardroom meetings across the country.

Also not calling them out necessarily but in the article they say employee passes have been restricted in the past, I've lived in CO for almost 10 years and cant remember hearing about it before, anyone out there have any insight?
Dec 13 2020 9:12AM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
I'm sure it's frustrating for employees but I kind of get it given the circumstances. Weekends in December are busy, lots of demand. Theres also limited terrain open with covid resorts can only allow so many people, hence reservations. Demand exceeds supply and customers come first. Get through the holidays and get more terrain open allowing more people and things will get better.
Dec 13 2020 12:09PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
Employees don't have much leverage in this situation, just the way things are going to be this year.
Dec 13 2020 12:19PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12506 - Karma: 116,130
just ski during weekdays 🤝🤝
Dec 13 2020 12:29PM
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RIP_leos_shack
Posts: 710 - Karma: 3,200
Pre-covid Mammoth would do that early season on busy days, so it doesn't really come as a shock to me. Also rip if you work for a ski resort and have the weekends off.
Dec 13 2020 1:11PM
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wyld_stallyns
Posts: 475 - Karma: 4,629
As an employee at a ski resort (not Vail thank God), my disappointment would be immeasurable if my pass was deemed unusable with a huge storm just coming in. Despicable
Dec 13 2020 1:12PM
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mitchey
Posts: 186 - Karma: 2,647
According to my roommates who work at Breck, they also overbooked customer reservations and customers who actually had reservations were being turned away at the lifts. While the employee thing is a huge bummer and shouldn't have to happen, the customer thing is a pretty big fuckup and Vail has gotta figure something out. Yeah there are a bunch of factors and they potentially didn't anticipate the lack of terrain that there is rn, but turning away customers who actually made reservations can't happen
Dec 13 2020 1:16PM
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SuspiciousFish
Posts: 2781 - Karma: 16,810
Anyone in CO knows you dont bother skiing from Dec 15 to Jan 5. There is no snow anyway and that is when the hoards of tourists come. Combine that with COVID and CO moving to Red status where they may shut down the lodges etc I can understand the resorts being on edge. Most tourists only take like 4 runs then drink hot chocolate and shop the rest of the day and if the restaurants close they are screwed. Since I can remember, most season passes that include Vail resorts have had blackouts during this time anyway. It sucks to see but that is the shit reality this year.
Dec 13 2020 1:26PM
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b0ss
Posts: 795 - Karma: 6,271
Employees qork during the holidays, this barely affects anyone
Dec 13 2020 1:53PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
b0ssEmployees qork during the holidays, this barely affects anyone


Yeah I bet that most people complaining are the ones who work 1 - 3 days a week to get a free pass.
Dec 13 2020 1:57PM
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wyld_stallyns
Posts: 475 - Karma: 4,629
eheathYeah I bet that most people complaining are the ones who work 1 - 3 days a week to get a free pass.


This felt like a personal attack
Dec 13 2020 2:40PM
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ColoradoDogfart
Posts: 2443 - Karma: 29,005
@yessirskiii_
Dec 13 2020 3:29PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,975
Sounds like a breech of contract of sorts if a full pass or whatever was part of the deal.
Dec 13 2020 4:30PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
TnskiSounds like a breech of contract of sorts if a full pass or whatever was part of the deal.


Employees don't really have the right to ski, its still a privilege for them, there isn't anything in the "contract" of unlimited skiing, if anything there is probably a clause for a situation just like this one, which is probably why they didn't hesitate to turn off employee's passes.
Dec 13 2020 4:38PM
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cheerio
Posts: 1032 - Karma: 3,415
I'm sure there's some clause giving them the right to do this, most people never read the full contract terms when getting their season pass (including myself) but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

Similar blackout happened a few years ago in Whistler during American Thanksgiving due to very very limited terrain open at the time
TnskiSounds like a breech of contract of sorts if a full pass or whatever was part of the deal.
Dec 13 2020 4:44PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,192
This isn't shocking. In normal years employee passes have blackout dates and can be blacked out at any time. Its frigged up because they said they wouldn't be but we have very little natural snow here right now and a ton of people with nothing else to do. Its really not that surprising.
Dec 13 2020 4:45PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,172
They got some real rude losers working for them this season at PC. thats I gotta say.
Dec 13 2020 6:48PM
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WoFlowz
Posts: 7902 - Karma: 63,944
Man fuck vail all my homies fucking hate vail
Dec 13 2020 7:14PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
DeebieSkeebiesThey got some real rude losers working for them this season at PC. thats I gotta say.


oh dear what happened
Dec 13 2020 7:36PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
DeebieSkeebiesThey got some real rude losers working for them this season at PC. thats I gotta say.


Story time.
Dec 13 2020 7:37PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,172
eheathoh dear what happened


r00kieStory time.

its just our first weekend of ski team activities, getting groups dialed, and just getting kids feeling the skis under their feet again and we do a diligent job of keeping things clean, safe, and wherever and whenever we do drills or work on skills, its somewhere not in the way or taking up a run. Just huge respect for the mountain in general and especially right now with limited terrain and choices to have. However, just nothing but problems with us trying to conduct our work and either speed patrol reaming out little kids for no reason, resort hosts being super bitchy with coaches for no reason, or just something stupid with some resort worker having beef with people in ski team jackets. Like sorry this 12 year accidentally cut you off, man. It happens, they're trying to figure all this stuff out. You, as an adult, should not be buzzin by kids at mach80 on racer-tuned skis doing GS turns cuz you're angry or something. Idk, fun weekend with the kids but people were just being awfully shitty to us for no reason.


and yeah I get fired the fuck up when beaters endanger the kids in my group and then have the audacity to get mad at them. Like I ultimately own-up to any mistake or error that happens because coaches should never put their kids in a bad spot and we worked out the first-day kinks but yeah, we got singled-out hard this weekend and the resort kinda throws it back at us for any small minor mistake like we're endangering the thousands of out-of-state guests they have.

**This post was edited on Dec 13th 2020 at 7:51:50pm

**This post was edited on Dec 13th 2020 at 7:54:57pm
Dec 13 2020 7:50PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Strike! Walk out Christmas weekend! Rebel! Anarchy!
Dec 13 2020 7:53PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
SkiBum.Strike! Walk out Christmas weekend! Rebel! Anarchy!


LOL ya fucking right dude, i think there are a lot more happy vail employees than not happy, the negative ppl are always the loudest and like I said earlier, the ppl complaining aren't the full time workers.
Dec 13 2020 8:01PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
I was being facetious, or maybe more hopeful/curious what would happen in that case.
eheathLOL ya fucking right dude, i think there are a lot more happy vail employees than not happy, the negative ppl are always the loudest and like I said earlier, the ppl complaining aren't the full time workers.
Dec 13 2020 8:12PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
SkiBum.I was being facetious, or maybe more hopeful/curious what would happen in that case.


Gotcha, ya I could see someone saying that and thinking it would be a viable option tho lol
Dec 13 2020 8:13PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,975
cheerioI'm sure there's some clause giving them the right to do this, most people never read the full contract terms when getting their season pass (including myself) but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

Similar blackout happened a few years ago in Whistler during American Thanksgiving due to very very limited terrain open at the time

Yes they probably do have loopholes clauses written in somewhere but still part of they're paycheck in a way, but really sucks how big companies like vail are all about money like this. Imagine working there all week and can't use your pass on the weekend all the sudden. So uncool .
Dec 13 2020 8:16PM
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CUSHKOMA
Posts: 171 - Karma: 655
They did this primarily because of little natural snowfall and having limited terrain open. I’m sure they released a disclaimer stating that further blackouts/restrictions could be imposed at any time in the interest of the resort to maintain a healthy operational environment, that’s what we did here in Telluride.

Also...as an assistant manager of my department I can verify that skiing is indeed a privilege and not a right for anyone. Especially if your pass is provided through your employer, if you don’t do what is expected of you then you can expect to loose your skiing privileges.
Dec 13 2020 9:01PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
CUSHKOMAThey did this primarily because of little natural snowfall and having limited terrain open. I’m sure they released a disclaimer stating that further blackouts/restrictions could be imposed at any time in the interest of the resort to maintain a healthy operational environment, that’s what we did here in Telluride.

Also...as an assistant manager of my department I can verify that skiing is indeed a privilege and not a right for anyone. Especially if your pass is provided through your employer, if you don’t do what is expected of you then you can expect to loose your skiing privileges.


Exactly this. I work at the hill and the pass is very clearly a privilage. If I don't treach I lose my pass. If I'm there to ski I'm on call. The resort is not there to serve you. They are obligted to nothing if you don't pay for the pass.
Dec 13 2020 9:12PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,279
Vails been doing it for a few years at least early season. We rode at northstar but I guess we were blacklisted technically. Idk I don't think we got scanned.

Pretty whack in a normal season when coverage and trails aren't that bad. Also super beat if both your occupations are snowmaking and grooming. Nothing like told to get fucked by bobby cats because there's not even terrain open when you're making the snow and pushing it around to open more terrain.

Not surprised at all with the covid thing. This is kind of a shitshow all around. As far as the weekends, are they trying to do that all season or just for the beginning?

I could see them prioritizing(they never would) a mountain ops type pass over somebody who gets one for working at starbucks in the village. But even then, Vail uses the allure of the season pass and the wicked cool mountain life to justify the beat wages. Kind of why a lot of people work any of the other jobs that pay better and just buy their own epic local and ski when they want.

But yeah, I get it this year. Capacity issues are going to be huge and the ever present risk of getting shut down at any time. Resorts are freaking out trying to hold it all together.

Hopefully we all have a full season.
Dec 13 2020 9:20PM
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CT_CREW
Posts: 668 - Karma: 3,481
as a past employee I can say that vail resorts has blacked out employee passes in Colorado during early season holidays for years....
Dec 13 2020 11:53PM
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mcswizzle
Posts: 842 - Karma: 2,298
Speaking of Vail fucking with their employees (article is from this past week) ...
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/lawsuit-against-vail-resorts-alleges-federal-state-labor-law-violations
As far as I know, employee pass blackout dates are scheduled ahead of the season and usually don't change. Announcing b/o dates during the season is not typical. Yes it makes sense to do this given the snow and pandemic conditions but that does little to placate the employees who moved themselves across the country and fought to find housing in the midst of all this chaos guided by the promise of getting a free pass. And I know for SURE, this year and every other year, that Vail flaunts the free pass thing as an incentive to work there. Big fuck up on their part, but overall nothing exceptional for Vail to screw over their employees.
Dec 14 2020 12:24AM
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CT_CREW
Posts: 668 - Karma: 3,481
^^ they've been doing surprise black outs for years too, during times when terrain is limited during holidays
Dec 14 2020 12:49AM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
CUSHKOMAAlso...as an assistant manager of my department I can verify that skiing is indeed a privilege and not a right for anyone. Especially if your pass is provided through your employer, if you don’t do what is expected of you then you can expect to loose your skiing privileges.
r00kieExactly this. I work at the hill and the pass is very clearly a privilage. If I don't treach I lose my pass. If I'm there to ski I'm on call. The resort is not there to serve you. They are obligted to nothing if you don't pay for the pass.

Your employee pass isn't a privilege. It is just as much a part of your compensation as the wage that you earn. You don't see companies changing your wage on a whim, and they shouldn't be changing your pass either.
Dec 14 2020 1:05AM
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yessirskiii_
Posts: 244 - Karma: 1,675
as a ski tech at a Vail owned ski shop, I was kinda bummed, but I set up the back yard PVC and ripped it. Adaptation and change
🦍
Dec 14 2020 1:36AM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
deathcookieYour employee pass isn't a privilege. It is just as much a part of your compensation as the wage that you earn. You don't see companies changing your wage on a whim, and they shouldn't be changing your pass either.


Nah. At the start of each season it's clearly explained that its a privilage. Its not taxed as a form of compensation like pay is. I'm sure the whole vail thing is frustrating but I get it. Paying customers come first, employee privilage goes away first. Customers keep you employed.
Dec 14 2020 5:55AM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
r00kieNah. At the start of each season it's clearly explained that its a privilage. Its not taxed as a form of compensation like pay is. I'm sure the whole vail thing is frustrating but I get it. Paying customers come first, employee privilage goes away first. Customers keep you employed.


The IRS says that you don't need to pay income taxes on employee discounts, but they are still part of your compensation package.

Nevertheless, I'm sure Vail put the ability to cancel the benefit in the small print of the contract you sign.
Dec 14 2020 10:00AM
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CatdickBojangles
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 62,949
I thought this was pretty standard practice in the industry as a whole. Even my tiny little east coast resort blacks out employee passes on busy weekends with limited terrain.
Dec 14 2020 10:28AM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7821 - Karma: 21,850
Usually at a resort it's all hands on deck on the weekends and holidays anyway, and why wouldn't you want to work at the busiest times when the resort is crowded, then have days off midweek when it's less busy? Even if you do have the weekends off, it's usually better to have at least one day for housekeeping or relaxing.
Also when you're working at any resort, you are agreeing to always put the customers first.
That being said, what a good reason to not work at a Vail resort, if it is going to compromise your ski time.
Dec 14 2020 11:30AM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
deathcookieYour employee pass isn't a privilege. It is just as much a part of your compensation as the wage that you earn. You don't see companies changing your wage on a whim, and they shouldn't be changing your pass either.


Yes, yes it is dude, the resort does not have to give you a pass are you serious?
Dec 14 2020 11:33AM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2381 - Karma: -11,975
Imagine if employers could pick and choose what medications you can have on your health insurance just to save a buck. Actually, I don't have to imagine because Hobby Lobby did that in 2015. We are setting a dangerous precedent in this country with this kind of stuff. Employers should not be able to change how much their employees are compensated on a whim. lift access is absolutely a form of compensation to resort employees.No one works at vail for the wonderful pay. Just because there's some vaguely worded clause in their contract doesn't mean this is ethical.
Dec 14 2020 11:48AM
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MiIfHunter
Posts: 3978 - Karma: 4,260
Vail employers need to bring in a union. This is bullshit
Dec 14 2020 11:56AM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
Craw_DaddyImagine if employers could pick and choose what medications you can have on your health insurance just to save a buck. Actually, I don't have to imagine because Hobby Lobby did that in 2015. We are setting a dangerous precedent in this country with this kind of stuff. Employers should not be able to change how much their employees are compensated on a whim. lift access is absolutely a form of compensation to resort employees.No one works at vail for the wonderful pay. Just because there's some vaguely worded clause in their contract doesn't mean this is ethical.


This is just a naive statement dude, Vail can, has and will changed employee passes blackout dates, its in the contract you sign when you become an employee, skiing at the resort you work is a privilege, its not a wage. Also, tons of people work at vail for the good pay, you're grouping "all vail employees" into dirtbag ski bums who make shit, that's like 5% of their employees dude.
Dec 14 2020 12:00PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
MiIfHunterVail employers need to bring in a union. This is bullshit


imagine having a union for one of the highest turnover rates for any job haha
Dec 14 2020 12:01PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2381 - Karma: -11,975
eheathThis is just a naive statement dude, Vail can, has and will changed employee passes blackout dates, its in the contract you sign when you become an employee, skiing at the resort you work is a privilege, its not a wage. Also, tons of people work at vail for the good pay, you're grouping "all vail employees" into dirtbag ski bums who make shit, that's like 5% of their employees dude.


Employee benefits are part of your compensation. Vail is changing how much their employees are getting compensated plain and simple. It's not naive to say that. Have you ever worked at a ski resort? I've worked at 4 and let me tell you I wouldn't have worked at any of them if I didn't get to ski for free.
Dec 14 2020 12:09PM
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bennwithtwons
Posts: 1362 - Karma: 10,874
remember the good old days when booth creek resorts gave you a 'buddy pass' - every other person in the ski crew would get a job working weekends/holidays and then hook up the other half with the passes. that was the best deal going for sure. i am fairly certain all my years at northstar had employee restrictions during busy periods, much like the blackout dates for cheaper season passes. we'd just go shred homewood, sierra, boreal something instead. i even skied one sick pow day at tahoe donner during 2011 when we got crushed for 6 months straight and the telephone poles were under snow.
eheathYes, yes it is dude, the resort does not have to give you a pass are you serious?
Dec 14 2020 12:11PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
Craw_DaddyEmployee benefits are part of your compensation. Vail is changing how much their employees are getting compensated plain and simple. It's not naive to say that. Have you ever worked at a ski resort? I've worked at 4 and let me tell you I wouldn't have worked at any of them if I didn't get to ski for free.


Again, you working at a resort =/= the thousands of employees that work for vail that aren't ski bums. Also again, a ski pass is a privilege. You can keep saying it the other way, but this isn't my opinion its just the facts, what you are saying is incorrect.

If ppl are so mad about vail, dont work there, simple as that. Guess what? thousands of people still work for vail.
Dec 14 2020 12:14PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
eheathYes, yes it is dude, the resort does not have to give you a pass are you serious?


Uhhh, yeah they do if its part of your contract.
Dec 14 2020 12:15PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
bennwithtwonsremember the good old days when booth creek resorts gave you a 'buddy pass' - every other person in the ski crew would get a job working weekends/holidays and then hook up the other half with the passes. that was the best deal going for sure. i am fairly certain all my years at northstar had employee restrictions during busy periods, much like the blackout dates for cheaper season passes. we'd just go shred homewood, sierra, boreal something instead. i even skied one sick pow day at tahoe donner during 2011 when we got crushed for 6 months straight and the telephone poles were under snow.


PCMR used to hand out ski passes like candy to park skiers and industry folk, most people I knew got a free PC pass until Vail came in. That being said, Vail is running a business and there model works very, very well, you can't really expect much change from Vail as they are absolutely stuffing their pockets every second of every day.
Dec 14 2020 12:16PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
deathcookieUhhh, yeah they do if its part of your contract.


So what you think every resort has the same contract? Nah dude, it says in your paperwork when you work for vail that skiing is a privilege. You don't get to decide when its part of your wage, the resort does and I can almost guarantee any resort that has a competent business plan does not include it as a wage.
Dec 14 2020 12:17PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
deathcookieUhhh, yeah they do if its part of your contract.

And in that contract I'm willing to bet it says the pass is a PRIVILAGE and the use can be altered as needed. I've worked in the outdoor industry for a few years now and theres tons of employee privilages such as pro deals, free passes, and such. But they are always referred to as just privilages, not part of the legal compensation package therefore not guaranteed. There is a key difference there.
Dec 14 2020 12:20PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2381 - Karma: -11,975
eheathSo what you think every resort has the same contract? Nah dude, it says in your paperwork when you work for vail that skiing is a privilege. You don't get to decide when its part of your wage, the resort does and I can almost guarantee any resort that has a competent business plan does not include it as a wage.


You do know that a wage is the fixed monetary part of your compensation right? You saying that a pass is not part of a wage is like saying an apple is not an orange. like yeah, we know...

**This post was edited on Dec 14th 2020 at 12:28:59pm
Dec 14 2020 12:28PM
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