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Why did the faction crew switch from the CT to prodigy series?

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BradFiAusNzCoCa
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I am watching the “this is home” video by the faction collective. It’s a few years old and all the freestyle guys (at least in Antti Ollila’s segment) are riding the candide series. As of 2019-ish, it seems like a lot of freestyles athletes jumped ship from the CT for Prodigy series.


I had some 2016 prodigy’s. They weren’t the toughest, but I remember them getting mad hate (which I don’t think they deserved) and I remember the roofbox review of them. So when they were popular, it made sense to me.

What DIDN’T make sense was the mass exodus of faction guys from the CT to the prodigy and the expanding of the prodigy line. It felt like it happened overnight,
Does anyone have insight into this? I tried to look it up but couldn’t fin anything.


I do feel I must share that my factions were 100% faction: very fun, but they did start breaking a little early
Dec 4 2020 7:52PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5033 - Karma: 51,109
the candides broke
Dec 4 2020 8:00PM
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wyld_stallyns
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pinkcamo1000the candides broke


always do
Dec 4 2020 8:36PM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,033
Mostly marketing reasons. The Candides basically sell themselves, he's a superstar with a huge following, especially in Europe. The Prodigy series was introduced later and required marketing. They put the rest of the team on those to get 'em the attention they need to sell. Simple.

That said, talking to the guys on the team, by and large, they do also prefer the Prodigy series because it's a more playful flex which is what guys like Dan and Antti are looking for (and recent models have been more durable, the Candide 1/2s are all-new for '21).
Dec 6 2020 6:55AM
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Greg_K
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As @Twig mentioned, the 2021 CT 1.0
and 2.0 are much stiffer and WAY heavier than last years versions. They now have a titanal sheet and rubber “stomp pad” underfoot to prevent damage from hitting rails and overall construction seems much beefier and better than before.

The new Prodigy line features deeper rocker lines, softer flex, lighter weight and more tip/tail taper so this line is going to be more playful, easier to butter and more fun for lighter skiers.

The new Candide line is now more of a all mountain “playful charger” that will be more stable at higher speeds, better carving and better suited to heavier and more advanced skiers.


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/981264/Differences-Between-Candide-Thovex---Prodigy-Series---Faction-Skis-2021
Dec 6 2020 8:25AM
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skidemon22
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Greg_KAs @Twig mentioned, the 2021 CT 1.0
and 2.0 are much stiffer and WAY heavier than last years versions. They now have a titanal sheet and rubber “stomp pad” underfoot to prevent damage from hitting rails and overall construction seems much beefier and better than before.

The new Prodigy line features deeper rocker lines, softer flex, lighter weight and more tip/tail taper so this line is going to be more playful, easier to butter and more fun for lighter skiers.

The new Candide line is now more of a all mountain “playful charger” that will be more stable at higher speeds, better carving and better suited to heavier and more advanced skiers.


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/981264/Differences-Between-Candide-Thovex---Prodigy-Series---Faction-Skis-2021


That’s only partially true re: the prodigy line. The 3.0 and 4.0 are all new for this season, with a whole new design, manufacturing partner, camber/rocker profile. The 1.0 and 2.0 remain unchanged, though I would expect the 1.0 to be all-new for next season.

and @Twig hit it in the head.. marketing. Prodigy is the volume twin tip for Faction with slightly higher margin and lower price points. That said, A. Hall and Antti would sometimes be on CTs with Prodigy graphics.

New CT 1 and 2... heavier than Skierman’s mom...
Dec 6 2020 3:43PM
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anders_a
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hah makes sense, Ahall during an interview talked about 1.0 prods in lengths that didnt exist, and said stock, he's a fairly tall dude so always thought it was weird.



makes me a bit meh they cut a lot of their longer lengths, but happy the 2.0 has some umph! not sure why they did the heavy short 1.0? though.
Dec 6 2020 4:49PM
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skidemon22
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anders_ahah makes sense, Ahall during an interview talked about 1.0 prods in lengths that didnt exist, and said stock, he's a fairly tall dude so always thought it was weird.



makes me a bit meh they cut a lot of their longer lengths, but happy the 2.0 has some umph! not sure why they did the heavy short 1.0? though.


It’s the same construction through whole size run, that rubber and metal add a ton of heft, and I’m not convinced that it will mitigate a ton of rail damage.
Dec 6 2020 5:07PM
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tiger_shart
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skidemon22It’s the same construction through whole size run, that rubber and metal add a ton of heft, and I’m not convinced that it will mitigate a ton of rail damage.

Who's the new manufacturer? Do you think that the big factory move is going to help durability, or do they just have too high of volume and too light of cores for any real improvements to be made?
Dec 6 2020 6:16PM
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skidemon22
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JupitahJoshWho's the new manufacturer? Do you think that the big factory move is going to help durability, or do they just have too high of volume and too light of cores for any real improvements to be made?


Amer is building the Prodigy, dictator and agent series. CT series moved from Sporten to Fischer, except for the 5.0
Dec 6 2020 6:39PM
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animator
Posts: 4552 - Karma: 26,250
JupitahJoshWho's the new manufacturer? Do you think that the big factory move is going to help durability, or do they just have too high of volume and too light of cores for any real improvements to be made?


The metal and rubber underfoot doesn’t make sense to me, seeming as most of the damage originates from edges, delam, and sidewall damage. Guess we’ll see, it adds a whole fuck ton of weight and the skis are also way stiffer (I have a CT 1.0 and 2.0 and they’re super fun, new ones aren’t as fun). Prodigy series remains solid, also the edges used are thicker which seems odd to me too?
Dec 6 2020 7:31PM
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skidemon22
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animatorThe metal and rubber underfoot doesn’t make sense to me, seeming as most of the damage originates from edges, delam, and sidewall damage. Guess we’ll see, it adds a whole fuck ton of weight and the skis are also way stiffer (I have a CT 1.0 and 2.0 and they’re super fun, new ones aren’t as fun). Prodigy series remains solid, also the edges used are thicker which seems odd to me too?


Bear in mind, the metal and rubber are under the core, just above the edges. In theory I get it... but I’d rather a ski that gets normal damage from rails but weighs a normal amount, not the equivalent of two VW hatchbacks
Dec 6 2020 8:52PM
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tiger_shart
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skidemon22Amer is building the Prodigy, dictator and agent series. CT series moved from Sporten to Fischer, except for the 5.0

You telling me that Prodigys are full sidewall armada's now??
animatorThe metal and rubber underfoot doesn’t make sense to me, seeming as most of the damage originates from edges, delam, and sidewall damage. Guess we’ll see, it adds a whole fuck ton of weight and the skis are also way stiffer (I have a CT 1.0 and 2.0 and they’re super fun, new ones aren’t as fun). Prodigy series remains solid, also the edges used are thicker which seems odd to me too?

I mean since the majority of impact from rail skiing comes from directly under foot it makes sense to me. Strengthen and reduce vibration as much as possible in the most high impact areas.
skidemon22Bear in mind, the metal and rubber are under the core, just above the edges. In theory I get it... but I’d rather a ski that gets normal damage from rails but weighs a normal amount, not the equivalent of two VW hatchbacks

Wow thats crazy, metal is usually above the core right? Honestly its an interesting idea, I guess this season we will see if it works.
Dec 6 2020 9:48PM
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skidemon22
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JupitahJoshYou telling me that Prodigys are full sidewall armada's now??

I mean since the majority of impact from rail skiing comes from directly under foot it makes sense to me. Strengthen and reduce vibration as much as possible in the most high impact areas.

Wow thats crazy, metal is usually above the core right? Honestly its an interesting idea, I guess this season we will see if it works.


2 points:

In the case of most skis that use metal for damping (99% percent of the reason metal is used in skis), and if there are the infamous ‘2 sheets of metal, bruh’, one sheet is above the core and one is below. Companies make a bigger deal out the one on top, like the Mantra M5, with its Titanal frame schtick. But if there are two sheets, one is certainly below the core. If there is only one, yes, it is usually hiding just under the top sheet. The core is usually milled to that the metal lays flush and the top sheet lies flat. In the case of the newer Mantras or the Rustler series, where the metal is visibly extruding/ sitting on top of the core, the top part of the ski mold/ press has to be formed to accept this intrusion. This is why it is more common, and easier, to mill/ carve down the wood core a little and lay a sheet into that.

in the case of the CT2.0, the metal (and rubber) is there mostly to provide a reinforcement against rail damage, so it sits above the edges and under the core.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2020 at 11:07:44pm
Dec 6 2020 11:05PM
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Mr_pretzel
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Faction says the titanal sheet is for binding retention, it’s going to be on top of the core under the topsheet, that’s why all the skis have to be drilled with a 4.1x9mm bit now.

Looking at the catalog I guess that’s mainly for 3.0 and 4.0 models.

If they only added it under for the 2.0 that’s kinda weird, but 2200g for a 102mm ski is a sweet weight in my opinion, new ones look sick now that they aren’t symmetrical anymore.

**This post was edited on Dec 7th 2020 at 12:40:20am
Dec 7 2020 12:35AM
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Mr_pretzel
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skidemon22Amer is building the Prodigy, dictator and agent series. CT series moved from Sporten to Fischer, except for the 5.0

Would you say the 5.0 is still going to suffer from being produced at Sporten?
Dec 7 2020 12:48AM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
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This thread ended up being a lot more informative than I expected. Thanks everybody for your input. I’d say they’re doing a great job of marketing the prodigies, at least in Finland. SO MANY kids are on them here.


As far as Titanal goes - I thought Titanal was not ideal for riding park? I could be wrong on that, but I swear I’ve been told that or read it. Would seem weird for the Titanal to be for park reinforcement if they’re trying to redirect towards all mountain charging.

On a related note, my friend sent me a snap Yesterday of his CT’s where binding had come out and topsheet had delammed completely aka ski blowout. Could the Titanal be related to that?
Dec 7 2020 2:37AM
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skidemon22
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Mr_pretzelWould you say the 5.0 is still going to suffer from being produced at Sporten?


The 5.0 is made at Nobile, was never made at Sporten. One of my favorite skis in the line up and probably the one I have the most days on, followed by the 3.0

**This post was edited on Dec 7th 2020 at 12:40:56pm
Dec 7 2020 5:47AM
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Greg_K
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In case anyone is curious, here’s pics of the extra sheet of titanal above the edges making a super thick edge underfoot.







The old 2.0 was a fun, light playful ski and the new version seems much more solid in flex, weight and suspension. Liked the old 2.0 but found it too soft and too light for for my taste. When I saw the new versions weight specs and heard it was stiffer I was intrigued and ended up with a great deal from the Rep. Fans of the old version will probably prefer the 2021 Prodigy 2.0 or something like the Reckoner 102 etc.

The 2021 2.0 seems more aimed at those who spend more time charging at high speeds all over the mountain including the occasional park lap but want something more playful than traditional charger. Takes a lot of the great flex/weight/dampening materials attributes of the my Enforcer Free 104/Fisher 102 FR/Menace 98 skis and may end up replacing some or all of those skis in my quiver. Looking forward to trying them out!
Dec 7 2020 10:20AM
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Mr_pretzel
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skidemon22The 2.0 is made at Nobile, was never made at Sporten. One of my favorite skis in the line up and probably the one I have the most days on, followed by the 3.0


Cool, so you do think the durability for the 3.0 and 5.0 are good now? Any difference between this year and last year with the new core changes?
Dec 7 2020 11:56AM
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anders_a
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I have 3! pairs of 3.0s now, 19, 20 and 21, I will let you know when I kill a pair, mounted with jesters though, so not as prone to rip out as pivots
Dec 7 2020 12:08PM
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animator
Posts: 4552 - Karma: 26,250
Mr_pretzelCool, so you do think the durability for the 3.0 and 5.0 are good now? Any difference between this year and last year with the new core changes?


They’re supposed to be more durable, I liked last years better but whatever. Should be more durable and a bit heavier
Dec 7 2020 12:09PM
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skidemon22
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Mr_pretzelCool, so you do think the durability for the 3.0 and 5.0 are good now? Any difference between this year and last year with the new core changes?

No changes to the 5.0. 3.0 is going into its second year at Fischer, but moved to an all poplar core. This will lay-up better during press, but be heavier than the Fischer ski from last year. I never had an issue with my CT3.0s , even when they were at Sporten, but it is possible I suck at skiing...
Dec 7 2020 12:40PM
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Mr_pretzel
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skidemon22No changes to the 5.0. 3.0 is going into its second year at Fischer, but moved to an all poplar core. This will lay-up better during press, but be heavier than the Fischer ski from last year. I never had an issue with my CT3.0s , even when they were at Sporten, but it is possible I suck at skiing...


Awesome, thanks a lot for the info. I'm actually stoked that they are getting heavier.

Didn't the 5.0 get a core change too? 2020 model says Balsa/Pachaco Core and 2021 says Paulownia / Poplar Core.
Dec 7 2020 1:05PM
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anders_a
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5.0 has new core suppsoedly, if anyone has a 2020 they can weigh I can check the 2021
Dec 7 2020 4:09PM
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Pipe_Munky
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the more Candides they sell, the more $$ they have to pay Candide... sell more Prodigy's Candide get less of a bonus...
Dec 8 2020 12:19PM
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