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NEWTWym by blown out? I don't think of mtn towns developing as a bad thing.
MalcolmstoddartIt can be great for sure, but a lot of people seek the "small town vibe" and as the towns continue to develop the character of that town changes and the mountain and town tailors its services towards tourists or people that have money. It just changes the vibe of the town, and changes the people it attracts. Take a look at Whistler for example.
NEWTIsn't this mostly brought on by resorts and the people they draw in not the town itself? A higher end resort is gonna change the vibe of a town more than a chill ski area.
NEWTIsn't this mostly brought on by resorts and the people they draw in not the town itself? A higher end resort is gonna change the vibe of a town more than a chill ski area.
sqeellicbicIf by "die" you mean "cease to exist" then I say no.
They're always gonna be there, but they're gonna turn to straight garbage. At some point you won't even have a chance to live in a mtn town unless you're extremely rich. With people making less and less these days, mtn towns are going to get less and less accessible to the average person.
aznaxlOkay sorry to be even bleaker but it’s not the mtn town, it’s the whole world and it is clearly capitalism’s fault. It’s not the individual faults of anyone, hating the second home owners that are the lifeline of the town is basic. It’s the system. Fuck capitalism. But sponsor me also, promise not to sell out until I do. And being paid to do what you love is the most honorable way to comply with the system anyway, shouts to all pro skiers that already made it.
**This post was edited on Nov 24th 2020 at 8:45:49pm
PeteMahnSocialism creates the large gap between the wealthy and lower income.
a_burgerputting aside the fact that this is the dumbest sentence I've read on NS in a while, I'm not sure why you think the only other alternative to laissez faire capitalism is some red-scare stalinism bullshit that literally nobody is asking for.
The real issue plaguing mtn towns is American culture and the desire to make a quick buck at every opportunity. Everyone says they love the community but most would turn around and sell it if it was the most profitable option. That's not a dig at anyone's morals either, that's just sort of a present theme for people raised in the U.S. Hardly any role models in a lot of US popular culture that make you say "damn I would totally donate a ton of time and effort to my favorite community for nothing but the strength of said community, not even recognition" when your growing up, and unfortunately the same goes for skiing.
**This post was edited on Nov 24th 2020 at 11:03:00pm
PeteMahn"the dumbest sentence I've read on NS in a while" hahaha, says a generation that knows nothing about economics and finance which is why there the one's that are keeping businesses closed and saying we need to be more compassionate and think about others. You really don't understand how economics works in relation to large countries in population like the U.S.
PeteMahn"the dumbest sentence I've read on NS in a while" hahaha, says a generation that knows nothing about economics and finance which is why there the one's that are keeping businesses closed and saying we need to be more compassionate and think about others. You really don't understand how economics works in relation to large countries in population like the U.S.
pinkcamo1000my hope is that covid had forced people to think more locally so we will see more money going towards smaller local hills. parents might not want their kids to play basketball or hockey and might instead choose an outdoor, socially distanced sport like skiing. All the giant mega resorts are totally dependent on people's ability to travel. I'm probably wrong though, especially when you consider that most wealthy people have lost very little money or have actually profited off of the pandemic.
PeteMahn"the dumbest sentence I've read on NS in a while" hahaha, says a generation that knows nothing about economics and finance which is why there the one's that are keeping businesses closed and saying we need to be more compassionate and think about others. You really don't understand how economics works in relation to large countries in population like the U.S.
a_burgerSo you gonna tell me how an economic system designed to diminish wealth inequality is increasing it? Cause if you can't even define socialism then I think your the one who needs to go to business school bud.
fwiw I wouldn't even call myself a socialist (too much emphasis on state control) but your clowning yourself by arguing against shit that aint even real
mystery3This is the wrong way to go about thinking on this subject. The residents and towns are not hapless bystanders in this scenario most of the time.
Also don't waste time lamenting what existed before, the evolution is inevitable and you have the power to shape it or let it shape you into a bitter old person shaking your fist at whatever the young people are doing now.
Nimby-ism, locals only attitudes, and xenophobia are not how to build excellent inclusive communities.
/rant
PeteMahnSocialism boasts the largest amount of business regulation and government control.
A great example are mountain towns. Do you know how building codes work. In Summit County and the majority of “Mountain Towns” they have extremely strict building codes. As seen in predominantly leftist states. This is why tiny homes are illegal in the majority of mountain towns to keep out low income citizens. There are also tons of other ways to deter middle class people as well. How could a low income person move into a place where they need a large investment to move in. This is how you keep out low income people and keep them renting. By implementing harsher regulations. This is also how you keep the real estate prices inflated. Do some of quick research. The only place in the United States that saw no real estate prices drop in the 2008 recession was Aspen Colorado, oh wow a mountain town. Which also has some of the strictest regulations you can come across. A cheap condo in most mountain towns are around 500K which is ridiculous that being said this is the most reasonable option for buying.
I could go on about this topic. How can one say they live somewhere if they don’t own real estate where they supposedly live. Eventually rent prices will rise and they will be forced to leave. This is similar to people who think rental control works even though it does the opposite and makes a city more expensive. This is also a proven fact as it causes investors to artificially raise property values.
MalcolmstoddartYou should really read up on the definition of socialism. Your previous statement is antithetical to the notion of socialism. A peer-reviewed article by Elaine Coburn, "Economic Inequality Matters: Reflections on Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century", breaks down inequality well.
a_burgerThe issue is that without building codes, it's not like a ski bum tiny home paradise would spring up. There would be nothing to stop a real estate developer from buying up all the land and subdividing it into a bunch of low density vacation homes that sit empty most of the year when only vacationers can afford them (and this is exactly what has happened in most resort towns). Building codes do not forbade higher density residential areas by existing, but that's how they are often used by NIMBY's in smaller communities without realizing they just sold their soul.
In theory building codes and zoning ordinances would be wielded by town residents to protect and grow their community, but because of the consumerist/sellout culture I mentioned in my first post a land owner would in many cases rather sell to a developer who will destroy the community and make a quick buck instead of loosing out on some money and growing their community.
Basically you can't apply modern economics and business thought to things like Mountain Communities, because the value is intrinsic (in the philosophical sense) rather then a profit
theabortionatorMeh, I get what you're saying for sure. Not sure what you're hinting at with the beginning.
I get not dwelling on it but it's just a thought on the internet and a real concern to me. It's not an old young thing at all. And I'm not sure how myself or other "have the power to shape it".
It's a nice sentiment but not realistic. The first part of that about the evolution being inevitable I agree with more but doesn't really fit with the rest if what you were saying.
I've never been down with the locals only vibe anywhere and i sure as fuck am not down with xenophobia.
It's more of a numbers thing to me honest. At a certain point, especially if the exodus from the cities to more rural areas continues a lot of towns will change massively. There's a lot of land, but there's still only so much land. We have a lot of friggin people.
I will say on the locals ok only thing that while I don't agree with that at all, in some areas there is a vibe change that comes with the migration from the cities. Some people bring more of that resereved attitude with them and are less invested in the community. This is not to say a lot of them don't become a part of the community, or that there aren't dirtbag locals but it's def a trend.
I don't dwell on it and let it make me bitter, but that also doesn't mean I have to like it. Change is inevitable but it does have an impact. Enjoying what's around now and being aware of the past current and coming changes doesn't mean you're an asshole that hates people, or certain people imo.
PeteMahnMost of this post I strongly agree with, that being said remember that Aspen and Breckenridge still have a trailer park. This used to be much bigger and where ski bums/ young people could live affordably. That being said as you stated people got greedy and sold to developers which is the main issues. The problem with the strict building codes is that these trailer parks/ affordable real estate are grandfathered In so you can’t replace and or replicate anything of that nature in these types of towns due to regulations that have been passed. Not that I’m saying the entire town should be made up of this type of real estate but it shouldn’t be completely discriminated. This is perhaps the only way to affordably own property in one of these towns.
Rotten_TrumpkinsThese threads are definitely getting burned out. From the cottonwoods being full to I-70 being a shit show, seriously you're complaining to deaf ears. I'd be willing to bet most, if not all of you are either transplants or your parents or your grandparents or your great grandparents were. Except for that one native American fellow, and shit even they migrated from Russia. All everyone does is bitch and moan about how their precious little ski town is becoming more commercialized and the culture ruined. Your views are too narrow and you're failing to grasp the larger picture.
You think your town looked the same 20 years ago? 30? 50? 70? No. Shit changes. Populations grow. Populations move. Towns and cities evolve and modernize. Businesses thrive and others are born. Some businesses die. Skiing isn't everything. If you want solitude, then move to the middle of nowhere. Anything else, and you fit the picture perfect example of a grumpy old time local.
I'll admit, yeah it sucks to see your favorite town changing in a way you see as detrimental to its character. That however is your narrow view and subjective idea of what it's character should be. Just enjoy what you have. Embrace change and limit the pessimism.
b0ssIm really starting to beleive that newschoolers is a anti-growth, anti-economic comminist forum.
theabortionatorNot trying to be bleak but it seems like no matter what, more rural areas will become more populated and eventually all the mtn towns will be fully blown out.
What are your thoughts?
DeebieSkeebiesill keep it short cuz i want to go off on this for days but just do what you can to help out around the communities if you're a member of them, living there for the winter, whatever. ski towns are now looked at in this disneyland-like lenses that they arent communities, they arent places where people have families to support and obligations and lives, just places for 2nd/3rd/4th homeowners and places for cashed-up ski bums working from home now. just seen as places where people can "Get what they want" out of them. that bothers me. Its just poor workforces that get shit all over by each way and its disappointing and something has to give. Shouts out to all the wonderful non-profits that provide food banks and health services, childcare, just about anything in town because it sucks the 5-year local doesnt want to love thy neighbor
**This post was edited on Nov 24th 2020 at 7:09:51pm
aznaxlOkay sorry to be even bleaker but it’s not the mtn town, it’s the whole world and it is clearly capitalism’s fault. It’s not the individual faults of anyone, hating the second home owners that are the lifeline of the town is basic. It’s the system. Fuck capitalism. But sponsor me also, promise not to sell out until I do. And being paid to do what you love is the most honorable way to comply with the system anyway, shouts to all pro skiers that already made it.
**This post was edited on Nov 24th 2020 at 8:45:49pm
Rotten_TrumpkinsThese threads are definitely getting burned out. From the cottonwoods being full to I-70 being a shit show, seriously you're complaining to deaf ears. I'd be willing to bet most, if not all of you are either transplants or your parents or your grandparents or your great grandparents were. Except for that one native American fellow, and shit even they migrated from Russia. All everyone does is bitch and moan about how their precious little ski town is becoming more commercialized and the culture ruined. Your views are too narrow and you're failing to grasp the larger picture.
You think your town looked the same 20 years ago? 30? 50? 70? No. Shit changes. Populations grow. Populations move. Towns and cities evolve and modernize. Businesses thrive and others are born. Some businesses die. Skiing isn't everything. If you want solitude, then move to the middle of nowhere. Anything else, and you fit the picture perfect example of a grumpy old time local.
I'll admit, yeah it sucks to see your favorite town changing in a way you see as detrimental to its character. That however is your narrow view and subjective idea of what it's character should be. Just enjoy what you have. Embrace change and limit the pessimism.
katrinaLol things escalated here very quickly in a different direction than I was expecting.
Rotten_TrumpkinsThese threads are definitely getting burned out. From the cottonwoods being full to I-70 being a shit show, seriously you're complaining to deaf ears. I'd be willing to bet most, if not all of you are either transplants or your parents or your grandparents or your great grandparents were. Except for that one native American fellow, and shit even they migrated from Russia. All everyone does is bitch and moan about how their precious little ski town is becoming more commercialized and the culture ruined. Your views are too narrow and you're failing to grasp the larger picture.
You think your town looked the same 20 years ago? 30? 50? 70? No. Shit changes. Populations grow. Populations move. Towns and cities evolve and modernize. Businesses thrive and others are born. Some businesses die. Skiing isn't everything. If you want solitude, then move to the middle of nowhere. Anything else, and you fit the picture perfect example of a grumpy old time local.
I'll admit, yeah it sucks to see your favorite town changing in a way you see as detrimental to its character. That however is your narrow view and subjective idea of what it's character should be. Just enjoy what you have. Embrace change and limit the pessimism.
PeteMahnSocialism boasts the largest amount of business regulation and government control.
A great example are mountain towns. Do you know how building codes work. In Summit County and the majority of “Mountain Towns” they have extremely strict building codes. As seen in predominantly leftist states. This is why tiny homes are illegal in the majority of mountain towns to keep out low income citizens. There are also tons of other ways to deter middle class people as well. How could a low income person move into a place where they need a large investment to move in. This is how you keep out low income people and keep them renting. By implementing harsher regulations. This is also how you keep the real estate prices inflated. Do some of quick research. The only place in the United States that saw no real estate prices drop in the 2008 recession was Aspen Colorado, oh wow a mountain town. Which also has some of the strictest regulations you can come across. A cheap condo in most mountain towns are around 500K which is ridiculous that being said this is the most reasonable option for buying.
I could go on about this topic. How can one say they live somewhere if they don’t own real estate where they supposedly live. Eventually rent prices will rise and they will be forced to leave. This is similar to people who think rental control works even though it does the opposite and makes a city more expensive. This is also a proven fact as it causes investors to artificially raise property values.
abar.Socialism has got nothing to do with building codes. Socialism is simply when companies are owned by the employees, as opposed to those who provided the capital. You're conflating socialism with the authoritarian policies of many states that made claim to socialism, which is an honest mistake if you haven't bothered to do any research. I don't think socialism is a useful term to use in the modern day due to how poor the understanding of what it means is. Mountain towns full of rich people are not leftist towns, they're neoliberal corporate cronyist towns, which is a right-wing ideology. I'm not an economist, I'm just trying to spread some awareness about the terms you use.
The insinuation in your previous post that increasing economic inequality in this country is due to anything other than the blatantly corrupt tax structure in this country is laughable.
a_burgerGlad we can see eye to eye on this. I just find it incredibly frustrating when people lump anything remotely "left wing" into a grand conspiracy to turn america into the USSR or something, probably just as annoying you think it is when people say "capitalism sucks" in regards to even small businesses. Politics fucking suck beyond a local level because it's hard for a lot of people (myself included sometimes) to care about those they don't know.
**This post was edited on Nov 25th 2020 at 1:26:04am
BradAusNzCoCaA lot of replies and a lot of words. I skipped 99% because A) it’s too much to read B) I’ve thought of this before.
I think it will just continue to be where new ski towns are born and then extinguished/overrun. Just as time has always done with normal towns.
Let’s all move to Kellogg or Wallace, Idaho
Yung_GnarleyI think you need to live in an actual dying town before you say stuff like this. Beautiful towns all over America's mountains are literally dying. Like there no people really left, the grocery store shut down, school's shut down; it's not livable. Why not move there? They need help. Or do you need fast lifts, good parks, a nice downtown, young people, ski shops, etc? My point being, you are conflating a dying town with a town you can't afford/don't enjoy. Catch my drift?
