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I was just thinking, I see a bunch of pro skiers post on IG about POW and stuff related to it, then next minute they go out sledding/ heli trips, fly all around the world. What do you guys think, is it hypocritical that they're all about "save the environment" and then next minute they're out doing it? or who gives a fuck..
I do see a lot of beefs amongst the pro's when it comes to this. I think T-Hall or someone was calling out Jeremy Jones recently? I could be mistaken though.
It's definitely hypocritical since they're driving around big ass trucks and vans and flying everywhere to ski, but I think it's important to have a lobbying organization for climate legislation. I think if they acted a little bit more like Nikolai Schirmer and incorporated the climate change mission into their skiing projects it would be pretty cool, but right now it's pretty ironic seeing the new TGR movies start with a 2 minute clip about how climate change is bad then they heli ski and travel for the next hour and a half of the movie.
Most if not all of those athletes have done a lot to try and lower their carbon footprint i.e. Jeremy Jones and Cody Townsend not riding in helicopters. Shaming people for not being perfect environmentalists is really counterproductive. Tackling climate change as an individual is done through a series of progressive lifestyle changes and that is what I see these athletes doing. We all get lazy and drive to the resort instead of taking the bus sometimes (or some other analogous situation) and I think what POW and these athletes are telling us is that it is ok not to be perfect, but that these things we all do that aren't the best for the planet should not stop us from trying to do better and save it.
brett_fisherLet's get rid of the 100 companies responsible for 71% of our emissions before we give people shit for going on trips.
This. The corporate world has made everyone think that they're the problem when really its these giant companies. BP, one of the biggest oil companies, literally started the terminology of having a personal "carbon footprint." They knew what they were doing. Their plan was to make you think like you were the problem and not them. While doing on a bunch of heli trips does take a toll on the environment, the real way to get change is to put pressure on these massive companies that take no responsibility for their actions.
driftslets get rid of china, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, and Indonesia first.
**This post was edited on Nov 2nd 2020 at 10:14:54pm
skeirmanI mean even just China. Don't those mf'ers emit more CO2 than the entire rest of the world?
Acting like China is solely responsible for the carbon footprint of products sold to the rest of the world seems ignorant. Low wage manufacturing jobs with poor working conditions in third world countries is another problem.
finderActing like China is solely responsible for the carbon footprint of products sold to the rest of the world seems ignorant. Low wage manufacturing jobs with poor working conditions in third world countries is another problem.
No I mean I'm genuinely asking like doesn't China emit more CO2 than the rest of the world combined?
Climate change is an absolute beast of a complicated issue and pointing fingers at people who are advocating for saving the environment and framing the critique towards what they do for work is a misnomer. If everyone who heli-skiied and brapped around on sleds and drove trucks decided to stop doing those things, nothing would change. Change needs to come from both a legislative and cultural basis, where the government decides to actually care about the environment and hold larger companies and corporations to a higher standard as well as a cultural shift for the individual to learn how to become more of a positive influence on their own sphere of impact politically by holding elected officials accountable.
I do think pros that have decided to try minimizing their impact should be applauded, but I also believe that those using their professional status and the privilege that comes along with being a professional skier to promote advocating for the environment also has a significant role. This isn't an "eat your cake and have it too" type of situation, it's more of a "hey I got this cake, maybe I can use it to make others be aware of these issues." Maybe I got that metaphor wrong, but that's my two cents on this anyways.
finderActing like China is solely responsible for the carbon footprint of products sold to the rest of the world seems ignorant. Low wage manufacturing jobs with poor working conditions in third world countries is another problem.
china is the biggest producer of CO2 in the entire world, nothing is going to change if we don't take serious action against china, its the most depraved nation on the face of the earth. if we do nothing they will continue to put the uighur population in concentration camps eat endangered species and pollute the entire earth just so we can have new iphones and cheap products
sqeellicbicThis. The corporate world has made everyone think that they're the problem when really its these giant companies. BP, one of the biggest oil companies, literally started the terminology of having a personal "carbon footprint." They knew what they were doing. Their plan was to make you think like you were the problem and not them. While doing on a bunch of heli trips does take a toll on the environment, the real way to get change is to put pressure on these massive companies that take no responsibility for their actions.
This fr. Companies and large corporations emit much more and is where change needs to happen first.
I’d say taking a sled out 20-30 miles is a drop in the ocean in terms of carbon emissions. Most of us probably burn more gas just driving to the resort
sqeellicbicThis. The corporate world has made everyone think that they're the problem when really its these giant companies. BP, one of the biggest oil companies, literally started the terminology of having a personal "carbon footprint." They knew what they were doing. Their plan was to make you think like you were the problem and not them. While doing on a bunch of heli trips does take a toll on the environment, the real way to get change is to put pressure on these massive companies that take no responsibility for their actions.
the U.S has and is emitting more greenhouse gasses per capita than any other country in the world.
China is catching up on emissions, but are still putting out less CO2 per capita than the U.S.
the U.S has and is emitting more greenhouse gasses per capita than any other country in the world.
China is catching up on emissions, but are still putting out less CO2 per capita than the U.S.
Quit looking at per capita, most of China is developing, and looking only at specific factors producing CO2. The questions was which country produces the most CO2, and it isn't even close.
**This post was edited on Nov 3rd 2020 at 11:09:56am
Lmao. You clearly don't understand how statistics work.
China has a population of 1400 million.
The U.S has a population of 384 million.
Expecting these countries to have the same level of CO2 output is retarded.
That's why you almost always look at per capita output.
Also not mentioned; Looking at total CO2 emissions over time, the U.S is insanely far ahead of China. They have been emitting crazy amounts for decades now. China is leading the world in solar, while the U.S is stagnating with it's continous oil production.
MarkusFinLmao. You clearly don't understand how statistics work.
Ah yes everyone knows the first lesson of statistics is refuting a valid point someone makes by straw-manning their argument. They weren't talking about per capita carbon output they were talking about aggregate output and China puts twice as much CO2 into the atmosphere as the US.
northkariya69I was just thinking, I see a bunch of pro skiers post on IG about POW and stuff related to it, then next minute they go out sledding/ heli trips, fly all around the world. What do you guys think, is it hypocritical that they're all about "save the environment" and then next minute they're out doing it? or who gives a fuck..
It's the amount of travel that gets me. I know it's fun, but a good mountain should keep a person happy forever. I get it, you're sick and tired of having to shred Whistler all year, so you go to Chamonix for a change of pace, but the powder is kinda good in Niesko so WE HAVE TO GO THERE!!! Like, damn, just enjoy skiing
Yung_GnarleyIt's the amount of travel that gets me. I know it's fun, but a good mountain should keep a person happy forever. I get it, you're sick and tired of having to shred Whistler all year, so you go to Chamonix for a change of pace, but the powder is kinda good in Niesko so WE HAVE TO GO THERE!!! Like, damn, just enjoy skiing
I mean if you're talking about skiers who film segments for a living, travelling is pretty important, especially big mountain skiers.
eheathI mean if you're talking about skiers who film segments for a living, travelling is pretty important, especially big mountain skiers.
Even if they live in a big mountain Mecca like Whister or Jackson, for example? Dendrite studios made one of the heaviest, most beautiful movies while never leaving BC and basically the Whistler area (iirc)
Craw_DaddyAh yes everyone knows the first lesson of statistics is refuting a valid point someone makes by straw-manning their argument. They weren't talking about per capita carbon output they were talking about aggregate output and China puts twice as much CO2 into the atmosphere as the US.
Except that's literally false.
That's the whole fucking point I was trying to make. If you look up how much each country has put out in TOTAL over TIME, the U.S is significantly worse than China.
The reason I was talking about per capita is because in a fair world, people should be able to output equal amounts of CO2, right?
Should the fat fucks in america who emit 12 tons of CO2 have a monopoly on CO2 emissions simply because their total population is less than Chinas? Fucking retarded point mate.
Yung_GnarleyEven if they live in a big mountain Mecca like Whister or Jackson, for example? Dendrite studios made one of the heaviest, most beautiful movies while never leaving BC and basically the Whistler area (iirc)
I just don't think its reasonable to expect the top level of skiers to not travel, you could probably only film in BC but thats about it, not everyone wants to do that, no real better answer other than people don't want their content to be stale.
That being said, flying is pretty insignificant to the overall climate change issue, driving your car is more harmful and industry is actually the real issue along with fossil fuel power plants.
eheathI just don't think its reasonable to expect the top level of skiers to not travel, you could probably only film in BC but thats about it, not everyone wants to do that, no real better answer other than people don't want their content to be stale.
That being said, flying is pretty insignificant to the overall climate change issue, driving your car is more harmful and industry is actually the real issue along with fossil fuel power plants.
They can travel all they want, but if they want to be environmental activists staying local and still making a good movie/edit would be much more impactful/genuine. Just saying the optics of it are clear to me. When Andy (@wormracer) is giggling at the half-activists I get it
MarkusFinThe reason I was talking about per capita is because in a fair world, people should be able to output equal amounts of CO2, right?
What are you using to qualify this statement? You're taking the aggregate value and dividing it by the population to reach an average that is heavily skewed by industry. The median CO2 output per person is likely far lower. A "fair" comparison factors in GDP, infrastructure, levels of poverty, and development. There is nothing "fair" about the numbers you are using. If I, for example, divide co2 output by GDP then America will fall WAY down the list. You're just using a metric that YOU deemed fair because you have an implicit bias toward "ignorant" Americans.
I mean we are making two different points. Mine was a very simple one. And I'm not disagreeing with the per capita emissions. But that is a different issue. You're simply trying to disprove my point with data that doesn't do that. When I showed you, you stamped feet and walked out.
**This post was edited on Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:09:29pm
Yung_GnarleyThey can travel all they want, but if they want to be environmental activists staying local and still making a good movie/edit would be much more impactful/genuine. Just saying the optics of it are clear to me. When Andy (@wormracer) is giggling at the half-activists I get it
For sure, I would say most high level skiers would say they care about the environment, but most of them aren't preaching like some do.
Craw_DaddyWhat are you using to qualify this statement? You're taking the aggregate value and dividing it by the population to reach an average that is heavily skewed by industry. The median CO2 output per person is likely far lower. A "fair" comparison factors in GDP, infrastructure, levels of poverty, and development. There is nothing "fair" about the numbers you are using. If I, for example, divide co2 output by GDP then America will fall WAY down the list. You're just using a metric that YOU deemed fair because you have an implicit bias toward "ignorant" Americans.
The whole argument we're having here is him saying "China is the worst in the world, therefore what we do doesn't matter". I'm just saying that that statement is factually wrong, since the U.S has been putting out more CO2 in total, DESPITE having way lower population.
The median CO2 output per person is likely far lower. A "fair" comparison factors in GDP, infrastructure, levels of poverty, and development.
I agree.
To address my point about measuring in per capita.
I wasn't trying to find out which individuals are worse, but the society as a whole. Blaming China for all the worlds climate issues is just straight wrong, when the U.S effectively has emitted a larger total amount of CO2 across its lifespan.
Also, pretending like average co2 output doesn't relflect median co2 output is just wrong. Countries with higher co2 emissions usually have better infrastructure, higher GDP, and lower levels of poverty, therefore forcing the individual to increase their co2 emissions to follow society (using a car to get to work, eating healthy, paying for electronics and non-essential items).
skeirmanI mean we are making two different points. Mine was a very simple one. And I'm not disagreeing with the per capita emissions. But that is a different issue. You're simply trying to disprove my point with data that doesn't do that. When I showed you, you stamped feet and walked out.
**This post was edited on Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:09:29pm
Cool
So your point is totally irrelevant to discussion then since you're not willing to go indepth about why the statistics are the way they are.
Let me show you why that's useless. Let me make fun of my own country to make an example:
Norway is the greenest country in the world!
compared to:
Norway has emitted almost no greenhouse gasses this year. However Norway has been producing and exporting oil for centuries and the total amount of co2 emissions far outweigh any effort they make to "go green".
Now do you understand why your comment is so fucking useless?
**This post was edited on Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:37:00pm
So your point is totally irrelevant to discussion then since you're not willing to go indepth about why the statistics are the way they are.
Let me show you why that's useless. Let me make fun of my own country to make an example:
Norway is the greenest country in the world!
compared to:
Norway has emitted almost no greenhouse gasses this year. However Norway has been producing and exporting oil for centuries and the total amount of co2 emissions far outweigh any effort they make to "go green".
Now do you understand why your comment is so fucking useless?
**This post was edited on Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:37:00pm
I do totally agree with you. But we do also need to remember that the biggest contributing factor to climate change is large businesses polluting. Again, I agree that the heli trips are unsustainable, BUT I think bringing awareness to an organization that is fighting to better the large corporations is much better.
Ckirchner45I do totally agree with you. But we do also need to remember that the biggest contributing factor to climate change is large businesses polluting. Again, I agree that the heli trips are unsustainable, BUT I think bringing awareness to an organization that is fighting to better the large corporations is much better.
driftschina is the biggest producer of CO2 in the entire world, nothing is going to change if we don't take serious action against china, its the most depraved nation on the face of the earth. if we do nothing they will continue to put the uighur population in concentration camps eat endangered species and pollute the entire earth just so we can have new iphones and cheap products
I really hate the "hypocrite" argument. I'm going for a grad school degree in environmental management, but I just drove my car instead of biking when I could have. I would also buy a truck in a second if I could afford it. Does this mean i absolve any right to promote environmental protection?
A bunch of skiers going on backcountry missions is not killing the environment. It's so easy to nitpick things like that. It's large-scale systemic change we need, moving away from fossil fuels, conservation, renewable energies, sustainable development etc. That's what we're promoting.
I hate the hypocrite argument that @steezbox was talking about too. People that are doing nothing hating on people doing something is totally counter productive. We’re not gonna fight the climate crisis by pointing fingers at eachother
