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Detuning: Pros and Cons

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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
Considering getting a detune on my skis this season. I'm generally aware of the tradeoffs: smoother time on rails, with the cost of a carving speed limit and less traction, especially on ice. Is there anything else I should be aware of before riding skis that are completely detuned underfoot? How do you like your edges, and how does it change the way you ski?

**This thread was edited on Oct 12th 2020 at 5:51:43pm
Oct 12 2020 5:51PM
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sqeellicbic
Posts: 421 - Karma: 3,356
The rails/ice tradeoff is definitely worth it. If the mountain is that icy, I'm hitting rails all day anyways. The detuned edges hold up just fine on hard pack/mild ice.
Oct 12 2020 6:32PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
If you're hitting rails you should always detune your edges to prevent burrs, edge cracks, and damage to features since they can be made of mild steel or softer materials. Detuning hinders your ability to turn in all but deep snow/slush but I've found that I also enjoy a detuned ski in the moguls since I ski them with a "slashier" style. You'll basically be confined to that slashy style of skiing which limits your ability to ski fast and rip turns. It's a tradeoff as you know already so it's often better to use a different pair of skis out of the park and leave your detuned skis for the days you want to hit rails or ski slush.

**This post was edited on Oct 12th 2020 at 9:55:00pm
Oct 12 2020 6:44PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,054
Who the fuck actually looks at the hill on an icy day and thinks “You know what? I’m gonna lay some carves today”
Oct 12 2020 7:10PM
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-arc-
Posts: 943 - Karma: 3,320
270on420outWho the fuck actually looks at the hill on an icy day and thinks “You know what? I’m gonna lay some carves today”


Thousands of people who ski?

It’s fun as fuck it grip it and rip it down down some stupid fast groomer. Also when people say icy, I’d say 75% of the time they just mean firm snow.

If it’s actual ice then it can go eat a bag of dicks.
Oct 12 2020 7:58PM
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rubberpantaloons
Posts: 506 - Karma: 3,094
Lol, hot take but i actually detune my park skis tip to tail. I love the surfy loose feel and it gives me a lot of leeway to land sideways if i fuck up. I do have another set of skis with normal edges tho haha. But yeah detune underfoot, youll get used to it pretty quickly. Few years back i brought my basically edgless skis to ski some chutes so youll be fine
Oct 12 2020 8:00PM
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Corey_O132
Posts: 161 - Karma: 1,119
So lil tip, use a random orbital sander to detune the edges underfoot. It’ll also help prevent them from cracking after big rail impacts.

I also sharpen your contact points on the rockered portion of the ski (a cambered ski). Better some grip than none, and then you can still hit rails no problem.
Oct 12 2020 8:48PM
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whackhouse
Posts: 736 - Karma: 939
yea i didnt detune my skis until i heard it can help prevent edge cracks, I probably wouldnt do it otherwise. but heavy detune underfoot and a slightly sharper edge on the tip and tail allows for a controllably loose swerving experience. (only use fully rockered skis for proper swerve)
Oct 12 2020 9:21PM
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typicaldenverkid
Posts: 115 - Karma: 1,133
270on420outWho the fuck actually looks at the hill on an icy day and thinks “You know what? I’m gonna lay some carves today”


I can totally see some ski racers dad saying that
Oct 12 2020 11:23PM
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Monkee
Posts: 136 - Karma: 820
typicaldenverkidI can totally see some ski racers dad saying that

Nah a race dad would force his kid to ski on the ice, what else would they wear protection for? I mean look at the race kids they got shin guards, spine protectors for when they go flying and wrap around a tree cause the ice was too slick for their razor sharp edge hand tuned by some faggot named maverick who tunes for the usa jr team
Oct 13 2020 12:48AM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6394 - Karma: 69,424
skifasteatassNah a race dad would force his kid to ski on the ice, what else would they wear protection for? I mean look at the race kids they got shin guards, spine protectors for when they go flying and wrap around a tree cause the ice was too slick for their razor sharp edge hand tuned by some faggot named maverick who tunes for the usa jr team

While sitting on the side discussing his latest investment or business idea with the other dads
Oct 13 2020 12:54AM
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Monkee
Posts: 136 - Karma: 820
ConesForBreakfastWhile sitting on the side discussing his latest investment or business idea with the other dads


CMON TIMMY SHARPER TURNS, NO RANGE ROVER FOR YOU WHEN WE GET HOME
Oct 13 2020 1:10AM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
skifasteatassNah a race dad would force his kid to ski on the ice, what else would they wear protection for? I mean look at the race kids they got shin guards, spine protectors for when they go flying and wrap around a tree cause the ice was too slick for their razor sharp edge hand tuned by some faggot named maverick who tunes for the usa jr team


this is the funniest thing ive read in weeks
Oct 13 2020 1:53AM
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Monkee
Posts: 136 - Karma: 820
shinbangclanthis is the funniest thing ive read in weeks


thanks brotha glad I could get a laugh outta you
Oct 13 2020 1:57AM
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bennwithtwons
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 10,817
i've never had any issues hitting rails on brand new edges that haven't been detuned. in my opinion, just start hitting rails and let them naturally 'detune't that part of the edge. as an added bonus - the more edge you have, the better it deals with the intense change in temperature when going from grinding to hitting the frozen snow, which means it is less likely to crack. also, if you detune, you are going to remove a lot of useful edge where you don't really need to. so leave it as it is and take advantage of better edge grip while it lasts!
Oct 13 2020 11:06AM
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,863
Take it from an idiot that put 4 edge cracks in his JJ Zeros. In the very least, run a file at a 45º angle under foot binding to binding. Depends where you ski, but skiing an icy mtn on dull edges will make you a way better skier.

**This post was edited on Oct 13th 2020 at 5:25:40pm
Oct 13 2020 11:37AM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2380 - Karma: -11,976
bennwithtwonsi've never had any issues hitting rails on brand new edges that haven't been detuned. in my opinion, just start hitting rails and let them naturally 'detune't that part of the edge. as an added bonus - the more edge you have, the better it deals with the intense change in temperature when going from grinding to hitting the frozen snow, which means it is less likely to crack. also, if you detune, you are going to remove a lot of useful edge where you don't really need to. so leave it as it is and take advantage of better edge grip while it lasts!


I used to do this as well but after years of dealing with edges cracking and eventually ripping out trust me when I say that you want to do an actual detune. Think of it like hitting the rails with a knife vs hitting them with a metal bar. the knife edge will chip long before the metal bar does.
Oct 13 2020 11:52AM
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860media*
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 10,519
I angle grind all my edges until they are round as soon as I get them....I love it makes everything slide perfect first day. I Don't really have to much trouble carving...definitely suggesting taking a lil off at a time so you don't end up with skis you hate/slip around on
Oct 13 2020 12:56PM
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bennwithtwons
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 10,817
Results may vary! I used to detune my skis right away and I would have edge cracks within a day or two. Now I never do and my last pair of 'rail' skis lasted for several years before developing cracks. The fresh edge rolls over very quickly (but only where you need it to) so you get that smoother transition you're talking about but then you have the benefit of having not lost all of that extra material. In 18 years of hitting rails, this is the conclusion I have come to for my personal equipment. I'm glad your method is working well for you too.
Craw_DaddyI used to do this as well but after years of dealing with edges cracking and eventually ripping out trust me when I say that you want to do an actual detune. Think of it like hitting the rails with a knife vs hitting them with a metal bar. the knife edge will chip long before the metal bar does.
Oct 13 2020 1:25PM
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armchair_skier
Posts: 2304 - Karma: 29,014
Define the whole underfoot. Use whatever you got angle grinder, teeth, bastard file etc. If you don’t detune you will either snap an edge or stick to the rail and come to a dead stop.
Oct 13 2020 4:39PM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11232 - Karma: 76,337
shinbangclanConsidering getting a detune on my skis this season. I'm generally aware of the tradeoffs: smoother time on rails, with the cost of a carving speed limit and less traction, especially on ice. Is there anything else I should be aware of before riding skis that are completely detuned underfoot? How do you like your edges, and how does it change the way you ski?

**This thread was edited on Oct 12th 2020 at 5:51:43pm


Don't detune, park tune. This means putting on a "long" base bevel.

Check out this worlds longest ski tuning video. Just skip forward until you get to the base beveling part.


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/849783/Ski-Tuning-How-To-By-Hand-Park-Special
Oct 13 2020 5:37PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
Easy decision, detune park skis, get a pair of race/slalom skis for ultra ice and enjoy unlimited grip.
Oct 13 2020 5:50PM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1478 - Karma: 3,762
This thread makes me feel like the majority of kids on this site have never skied on ice. If you are hitting rails you should detune and yes, it will affect your ability to carve. If you actually ski on ice for a good majority of the season, you won't be making any nice turns outside of the first hour of opening, pow days, and spring slush.
Oct 13 2020 8:20PM
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broken_skier0
Posts: 132 - Karma: 287
DominatorJacquesDon't detune, park tune. This means putting on a "long" base bevel.

Check out this worlds longest ski tuning video. Just skip forward until you get to the base beveling part.


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/849783/Ski-Tuning-How-To-By-Hand-Park-Special


Can someone summarize this for those who don't have time to watch a five hour video?
Oct 13 2020 8:23PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
I definitely struggle with this trade off.
Like it’s a no brainer on full-on park skis, but bombing around the mountain with detuned edges is significantly less fun to me than with edges. What do you do with the all mountain skis that might see a couple park laps every couple days but spend most of their time sniping side hits and little cliffs?

Is there benefit to a super subtle detune underfoot? Or does that even help prevent cracks on rails at all?
Oct 13 2020 8:54PM
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abar.
Posts: 1062 - Karma: 6,889
broken_skier0Can someone summarize this for those who don't have time to watch a five hour video?


He grinds the base so its higher in the middle so the edges don't touch the rail. Definitely a pro tuner technique that I wouldn't try for worry of fucking up my base
Oct 13 2020 10:20PM
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armchair_skier
Posts: 2304 - Karma: 29,014
PoikenzThis thread makes me feel like the majority of kids on this site have never skied on ice. If you are hitting rails you should detune and yes, it will affect your ability to carve. If you actually ski on ice for a good majority of the season, you won't be making any nice turns outside of the first hour of opening, pow days, and spring slush.


why would I ski on ice? I'll stick to snow
Oct 13 2020 11:03PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
KevskiI definitely struggle with this trade off.
Like it’s a no brainer on full-on park skis, but bombing around the mountain with detuned edges is significantly less fun to me than with edges. What do you do with the all mountain skis that might see a couple park laps every couple days but spend most of their time sniping side hits and little cliffs?

Is there benefit to a super subtle detune underfoot? Or does that even help prevent cracks on rails at all?


It seems like it's such a difficult tradeoff honestly, because what if I want to take one hard charge lap outside the park? I mean if I'm spending 70% of my time in the park it should be reasonable to detune, but I don't want to have a miserable time on east coast ice when the homies want to take a groomer lap. You feel me?
Oct 14 2020 3:40AM
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Tino94
Posts: 72 - Karma: 1,218
I leave them sharp and only detune the contact points on tip and tail. I let the rails detune my skis and its not really a problem unless the rail is sticky but yeah ski with caution.
I've actually started sharpening my side edge lately or at least take the burs off so I can keep the edge in shape, but I only sharpen them occasionally its nice to have some grip. Also depends how many rails I've slid because most likely it won't be sharp underfoot anyway
Oct 14 2020 6:03AM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
Lol at non ice coasters.

It's a huge tradeoff when it's genuinely icy and slippery. This is probably the most extreme version of this test, but my park detune Magnus grip poorly compared to my SFBs, and there's no contest compared to my Racetiger SLs. I absolutely have to change how I ski with the dull edges. You have to be kinda gentle carving dull edge skis at high speed and just accept they're gonna slide through turns.

It's better to come to some middle ground, like detune under foot but sharp elsewhere, if you want to blast groomers and hit a few rails. You loose the super surfy land however you want and slide it out ability you get with super dull edges but it's worth it if you actually care about carving properly. If you just want to new wave down the hill and slide everywhere then it doesn't matter. I've gotten to the point where I grab the park skis, ski some park, then switch to something else to blast hard carves down groomers because it's just so much better with purpose built gear. If I could only have one ski I'd definitely try to keep the contact points near the ends sharp enough to bite and dull them underfoot.
Oct 14 2020 11:14AM
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SuspiciousFish
Posts: 2781 - Karma: 16,810
Why dont you detune your edges under the bindings where you slide rails then take a hand sharpener and give a little edge on the tip and tails so you can manage hardpack?
Oct 14 2020 12:27PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3079 - Karma: 13,690
-arc-Thousands of people who ski?

It’s fun as fuck it grip it and rip it down down some stupid fast groomer. Also when people say icy, I’d say 75% of the time they just mean firm snow.

If it’s actual ice then it can go eat a bag of dicks.


Haha I remember when I skied with extended family at Killy we kept skiing crusty groomers and I was scrubbing/sliding all the way down. My 2nd cousin-in-law asked me what I thought of the conditions and I said "kinda icy" and he said "no it's not icy, icy is when it's clear" LMAO
Oct 14 2020 1:48PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3079 - Karma: 13,690
PoikenzThis thread makes me feel like the majority of kids on this site have never skied on ice. If you are hitting rails you should detune and yes, it will affect your ability to carve. If you actually ski on ice for a good majority of the season, you won't be making any nice turns outside of the first hour of opening, pow days, and spring slush.


Tbf if you are there to lap the park with your dedicated park skis, I don't think laying down GS carves on the groomer back to the lift is much of a priority to you.
Oct 14 2020 1:50PM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11232 - Karma: 76,337
broken_skier0Can someone summarize this for those who don't have time to watch a five hour video?


I said right there, that the main thing is a "long" base bevel for rails and tubes.
You don't need to watch it all, but poke forward until you see the base bevel work, then watch a while.

Some of the base edge removed.
Park ski needs even more bevel than shown below. Bevel well into plastic.

Oct 14 2020 2:51PM
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Emma_Watson
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 6,796
pros: edges are more rounded
cons: edges are more rounded
Oct 15 2020 9:50AM
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lelandsdad
Posts: 196 - Karma: 340
Most skis come 1 degree base and 2 degree side from the factory which is too sharp for rails. Back in the day I used to take a file and 45 degree the entire edge and be done with it. More recently found that doing a 2 degree base and 2 degree side bevel (effectively 90) works well. Much less sharp, keeps the edge off the rail for sliding but good for grip for setting tricks without hanging up. Still go 45 both tip and tail and a few inches in to the running part of the edge. Then they'll dull naturally under foot where they need to. Also seems like we get less edge cracks and much better for free skiing if you want to lay them over a bit.
Oct 15 2020 11:17AM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11232 - Karma: 76,337
Words of wisdom from Peter. Listen from 4:20


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/863724/Bachelor-Parks-Real-Laps-Peter-Christensen-March-23rd-2017
Oct 15 2020 2:18PM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
DominatorJacquesWords of wisdom from Peter. Listen from 4:20


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/863724/Bachelor-Parks-Real-Laps-Peter-Christensen-March-23rd-2017


Doing a base bevel seems faaar beyond my ability level! I wonder if shops do this
Oct 15 2020 3:11PM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11232 - Karma: 76,337
shinbangclanDoing a base bevel seems faaar beyond my ability level! I wonder if shops do this

If you have a bench, ski vice, fixed base bevel guide (1,or 1.5 degree) and a file, you can do it.
If you have a shop, just tell them you want the base bevel to extend into the base plastic about the thickness of the edge. About 2mm or so.
Oct 15 2020 4:36PM
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lelandsdad
Posts: 196 - Karma: 340
shinbangclanDoing a base bevel seems faaar beyond my ability level! I wonder if shops do this


Yes just bring them to a shop for the bevel
Oct 15 2020 5:34PM
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