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Jo Jorgenson is the only person that jumps out at me
I‘m partial towards her but keep coming back to having decide whether I’d rather have a turd sandwich or giant douche because not enough people will vote third party
soulskierJo Jorgenson is the only person that jumps out at me
I‘m partial towards her but keep coming back to having decide whether I’d rather have a turd sandwich or giant douche because not enough people will vote third party
It's not because not enough people will vote third party, it's because our winner-takes-all plurality voting system makes it so that only two parties can ever mathematically be viable.
soulskierJo Jorgenson is the only person that jumps out at me
I‘m partial towards her but keep coming back to having decide whether I’d rather have a turd sandwich or giant douche because not enough people will vote third party
The options are 1. Trump 2. Not trump. If you're cool with trump being president, vote 3rd party. If you don't want trump to be president, vote for biden. Voting 3rd party in the USA is pointless.
We have to vote for Biden. He might not be your favorite candidate, but he'll be a safe place holder while things slowly return to normal. I really don't understand how anyone could possibly support Trump at this point. Either you want America to collapse or you're fucking stupid. Go ahead Trump supporters, tell me I'm a snowflake who doesn't know how the world works. Back up your argument with information from your Introduction to Economics class you took freshman year with your illiterate fraternity friends.
Trump paid someone to take his SATs. He was also sent to Military School as a teenager because he was behavioral. Dude was a total squid from day one, and all of you assholes who support him probably would have bullied him if you'd known him as a kid. Isn't it also common knowledge that he inherited 100 million dollars from his father Fred Trump, and lost all of it? Almost no point trying to argue with supporters anymore.
And like eheath said, voting for a 3rd party is like voting for Trump.
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:04:57pm
.FRY.We have to vote for Biden. He might not be your favorite candidate, but he'll be a safe place holder while things slowly return to normal. I really don't understand how anyone could possibly support Trump at this point. Either you want America to collapse or you're fucking stupid. Go ahead Trump supporters, tell me I'm a snowflake who doesn't know how the world works. Back up your argument with information from your Introduction to Economics class you took freshman year with your illiterate fraternity friends.
Trump paid someone to take his SATs. He was also sent to Military School as a teenager because he was behavioral. Dude was a total squid from day one, and all of you assholes who support him probably would have bullied him if you'd known him as a kid. Isn't it also common knowledge that he inherited 100 million dollars from his father Fred Trump, and lost all of it? Almost no point trying to argue with supporters anymore.
And like eheath said, voting for a 3rd party is like voting for Trump.
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:04:57pm
Because history has shown high taxes, high reg and socialist policies always help a recovering economy, right? Rofl.
The only point you’ve made is that you hate trump because he lost his inheritance... yet still became one of the most successful business men in the world.
SnowshoeThompsonBecause history has shown high taxes, high reg and socialist policies always help a recovering economy, right? Rofl.
The only point you’ve made is that you hate trump because he lost his inheritance... yet still became one of the most successful business men in the world.
Amazing
Losing your inheritance makes you a loser lol, not successful. Like how the fuck do you lose 100 million dollars? He won the election, but only because Hillary was a bad democratic opponent. Even so, she won the popular vote. This is stuff that everyone knows, which Is why I can't believe people support him. He has a track record of being a bad person, and I think that's a good enough reason not to support him. He also has a vocabulary of probably 50 words. Everything is tremendous or frank to him. He's the oldest president the country has every had too. Trump is easily up there with Biden as far an senility goes. I can see both sides to every argument, but Trump has had his chance and he's repeatedly shown himself to be a scumbag.
I know what you meant btw about Trump losing everything but bouncing back. Typed everything out too quickly and skipped over part of my argument, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest Trump may not be a billionaire, or even a millionaire. Hillary Clinton said he's probably only worth about $450k. He has a lot of debt to international banks, and he's even refused to pay for contracted maintenance on his buildings, among other things.
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:52:23pm
And like eheath said, voting for a 3rd party is like voting for Trump.
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:04:57pm
this is the problem right here. “If you don’t vote how I want you to vote, it’s a vote for the other team”
so any views that aren’t the same as yours don’t hold the same value or merit as yours? Why is Biden the end all, be all? Democrats seem to forget that the candidate they wanted in 2016 and 2020 was not the candidate the party wanted and therefore never was even considered. I’m over voting for a candidate the the majority wants only for the party to reject because he doesn’t fit “the agenda”
Not really the point. Trump supporters will support Trump no matter what. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be at the polls voting for Trump because they love him. The probability of the Trump-opposed population unanimously voting for a third-party candidate is extremely slim. I understand your sentiment, but Biden is legitimately the only person with a feasible chance of beating Trump. Need to vote Biden, or you're voting for Trump, regardless of what you check on your ballot.
This reads really condescendingly now that I've read it again. What I typed is true though. A third party will not win.
Mtuhockey33this is the problem right here. “If you don’t vote how I want you to vote, it’s a vote for the other team”
so any views that aren’t the same as yours don’t hold the same value or merit as yours? Why is Biden the end all, be all? Democrats seem to forget that the candidate they wanted in 2016 and 2020 was not the candidate the party wanted and therefore never was even considered. I’m over voting for a candidate the the majority wants only for the party to reject because he doesn’t fit “the agenda"
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 12:37:58am
Nah, a vote for a 3rd party isn’t a vote for Biden or for Trump. Neither will stand to gain from your vote. Whether you see it or not you are trying to advocate for the suppression of someone else’s vote. At this point people voting 3rd party are either trying to bring awareness to other options (and slowly start building a base of support) or are protesting the lack of quality candidates. Pretty simple stuff.
Charlie_KellyNah, a vote for a 3rd party isn’t a vote for Biden or for Trump. Neither will stand to gain from your vote. Whether you see it or not you are trying to advocate for the suppression of someone else’s vote. At this point people voting 3rd party are either trying to bring awareness to other options (and slowly start building a base of support) or are protesting the lack of quality candidates. Pretty simple stuff.
It’s sad that this is what we’re coming to as a country... “if yer not wit’ us, yerrrrrr again’t us!!”
It’s unreal how you can’t have a differing opinion or view on anything these days. Every person wants you to conform to their ideals and if you disagree, you’re always wrong.
SnowshoeThompsonBecause history has shown high taxes, high reg and socialist policies always help a recovering economy, right? Rofl.
The only point you’ve made is that you hate trump because he lost his inheritance... yet still became one of the most successful business men in the world.
Charlie_KellyNah, a vote for a 3rd party isn’t a vote for Biden or for Trump. Neither will stand to gain from your vote. Whether you see it or not you are trying to advocate for the suppression of someone else’s vote. At this point people voting 3rd party are either trying to bring awareness to other options (and slowly start building a base of support) or are protesting the lack of quality candidates. Pretty simple stuff.
If you vote third party you're suppressing your own vote. It's not because your opinions are bad, or that the 3rd party's opinions are bad and not valid for discussion. It's simple math. We have an election system where the highest vote getter wins, even if they get less than 50% of the vote, and the loser gets nothing. If 60% of the population is left leaning, but there's two left leaning parties that they're evenly split between, the right leaning party wins 100% of the election even though they are a minority. This means that by voting for a third party that you like more than a major party, you are actively voting against the major party that you most closely agree with, since you are taking a vote away from them and making it easier for the party you hate to win with a minority. Over 250 years American politics have coalesced into 2 ideologically amorphous parties that constantly switch positions in an attempt to appeal to about half the population. Since these 2 parties are so entrenched, unless you can organize 40 million people to do the exact same thing, there is no way a third party will ever overcome the mathematical disadvantage created by our voting system. We need to change the voting system to begin to solve this.
TL;DR I hate the political establishment as much as you do, and Biden is not someone I would choose to vote for on their own merit, but a third party will not win in 2020 and unless you would otherwise vote for trump voting third party is taking a vote away from biden. We can not afford another 4 years of someone who is actively trying to destroy the global environment, even if you are a raging bigot and greedy millionaire you should be able to at least recognize this. If you refuse to acknowledge this you should probably just turn in your skis.
abar.TL;DR I hate the political establishment as much as you do, and Biden is not someone I would choose to vote for on their own merit, but a third party will not win in 2020 and unless you would otherwise vote for trump voting third party is taking a vote away from biden. We can not afford another 4 years of someone who is actively trying to destroy the global environment, even if you are a raging bigot and greedy millionaire you should be able to at least recognize this. If you refuse to acknowledge this you should probably just turn in your skis.
You realize China, Russia, India, US politicians/celebs/(b)millionaires fuck the environment more than any US president alone ever could? The global environment is fucked due to big corporations and greed all over the world; blaming one person is childish.
Hell even pro skiers fuck up the environment and then preach to everyone else to be carbon neutral.
Mtuhockey33You realize China, Russia, India, US politicians/celebs/(b)millionaires fuck the environment more than any US president alone ever could? The global environment is fucked due to big corporations and greed all over the world; blaming one person is childish.
Hell even pro skiers fuck up the environment and then preach to everyone else to be carbon neutral.
Yes the world is becoming a sespool but how do pro skiers mess up the environment ?
Mtuhockey33You realize China, Russia, India, US politicians/celebs/(b)millionaires fuck the environment more than any US president alone ever could? The global environment is fucked due to big corporations and greed all over the world; blaming one person is childish.
Hell even pro skiers fuck up the environment and then preach to everyone else to be carbon neutral.
I never said I was blaming him exclusively, there are obviously far more factors at play that also need to be dealt with. The US emits twice as much carbon as India and 3 times as much as Russia. The only country ahead of the US is China, with twice the emissions but 4 times the population. The US president is the leader of the one of the largest and highest emitting countries in the world and controls the climate policy for said country. Said country also has significant (although declining) worldwide influence and can set impactful precedent. It's ridiculous to say that the US president isn't one of the most important people worldwide for combating climate change. In addition to climate policy, Trump has also been removing anti-pollution and environmental safety regulations at a ridiculous rate with little to no regard for the effect. These are extremely important decisions that will have irreversible impacts in the next 50 years and for generations after. There is no time to waste pointing fingers or worrying about relatively insignificant cultural issues and bluster, clearly this election will have a massive effect on environmental policy that anyone should be able to recognize the importance of.
TnskiYes the world is becoming a sespool but how do pro skiers mess up the environment ?
I’m not sure if you’re being serious or just trolling...
do you not realize the massive carbon footprint solo heli-tours as well as their multiple plane trips to go and ski all over the world have? The 1% tells the rest of us to protect the environment while they effectively have a negative 10-fold the effect on the environment compared to someone like me who uses their car to go to work and home.
Mtuhockey33I’m not sure if you’re being serious or just trolling...
do you not realize the massive carbon footprint solo heli-tours as well as their multiple plane trips to go and ski all over the world have? The 1% tells the rest of us to protect the environment while they effectively have a negative 10-fold the effect on the environment compared to someone like me who uses their car to go to work and home.
This is such a stupid fucking argument.
The whole idea "but individuals are hypocritical if they're preaching against XYZ but doing ABC" is one that is basically saying the ultimate political statements are personal actions but personal actions can undermine political claims, or, as a more famous phrase puts it, the personal is political. The personal certainly is political, but it cannot always be taken literally.
If it is, this, in itself, creates an impossible situation; if you're not living perfectly you're a hypocrite for speaking out.
But to change society we must exist in it but to exist in it we must compromise with it.
Ignoring this fact is just fucking stupid. If living perfectly was a requirement for change, improving society would be next to impossible.
What needs to be recognized is that there's a balancing act with these things. It's impossible, in this day and age, to have a negative carbon footprint and make a largescale impact. It is not impossible, however, to offset one's carbon footprint through other means.
For instance, an environmentalist who travels on planes may forgo eating meat/driving a car/uses renewable energy to offset their carbon footprint.
A skier who travels on helicopters may live a sustainable, carbon-neutral, lifestyle.
Think of Mark Abma for instance. He flies in helicopters, drives trucks, and uses snowmobiles, but lives in a carbon-neutral house. Is he a hypocrite for speaking out against fossil fuels and other environmental issues?
The search for perfection should not vilify those who try to do good.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 10:18:07am
Mtuhockey33You realize China, Russia, India, US politicians/celebs/(b)millionaires fuck the environment more than any US president alone ever could? The global environment is fucked due to big corporations and greed all over the world; blaming one person is childish.
Yeah but as much as I think Biden sucks his support for the Green New Deal is a step towards unfucking the global environment. Can't just throw our hands in the air because other people are shitting on the earth
As far as Third Party candidates go y'all have the right to vote for them as a protest, but realize its not gonna be an effective protest. If 2016 wasn't a wake up call for the Democrats then idk what is.
eheathThe options are 1. Trump 2. Not trump. If you're cool with trump being president, vote 3rd party. If you don't want trump to be president, vote for biden. Voting 3rd party in the USA is pointless.
I'm voting 3rd party (green party) because I don't want trump OR biden. 2 party system is fuckin our country up and I'm not gonna vote for the lesser of two evils when I can throw my support behind a candidate who's actually a decent person. Even if they have no shot of winning I does more good than not showing up to vote and its still representation for people who don't want to bend over to a party just because they hate the other.
Young_pattyI'm voting 3rd party (green party) because I don't want trump OR biden. 2 party system is fuckin our country up and I'm not gonna vote for the lesser of two evils when I can throw my support behind a candidate who's actually a decent person. Even if they have no shot of winning I does more good than not showing up to vote and its still representation for people who don't want to bend over to a party just because they hate the other.
So you're voting 3rd party just to say you did? What's the point of that? You can vote without voting for president, that's a very valid use of your vote as well, but if you're cool with trump being president then vote 3rd party.
a_burgerYeah but as much as I think Biden sucks his support for the Green New Deal is a step towards unfucking the global environment. Can't just throw our hands in the air because other people are shitting on the earth
As far as Third Party candidates go y'all have the right to vote for them as a protest, but realize its not gonna be an effective protest. If 2016 wasn't a wake up call for the Democrats then idk what is.
Maybe the Democrats should stop sandbagging themselves. They had a better field to start this election year than they did in 2016 but somehow arrived at an even worse candidate than they did four years ago. You’d think someone like Tulsi Gabbard would be a Democrat’s dream but NOPE, let’s pick an old, senile pedophile instead, he’ll be able to take on Trump. Good job guys!!!
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 6:43:36pm
eheathSo you're voting 3rd party just to say you did? What's the point of that? You can vote without voting for president, that's a very valid use of your vote as well, but if you're cool with trump being president then vote 3rd party.
A vote for third party hurts Trump just as much as it does Biden cause its not a vote for them. If you were a Trump supprter you say a third party vote is a vote for biden, which it is not.
Young_pattyI'm voting 3rd party (green party) because I don't want trump OR biden. 2 party system is fuckin our country up and I'm not gonna vote for the lesser of two evils when I can throw my support behind a candidate who's actually a decent person. Even if they have no shot of winning I does more good than not showing up to vote and its still representation for people who don't want to bend over to a party just because they hate the other.
I won't repeat myself but if you'd like to read my massive rant above it explains why you're wrong. I don't want Trump or Biden either, and I agree with your thoughts on the two party system, but voting third party is not an effective protest against it. If you want to help get rid of the two party system campaign your state officials (who control how voting is conducted in your state) to implement something like ranked choice voting so people can choose their favorite third party without the spoiler effect happening. It won't solve the problem, but it's a step in the right direction that can start on the local level where it's much easier to organize. Voting green may be marginally better than not voting at all, but I really hope you'll reckognize that this not the year to throw away your vote on principle, we need to be pragmatic and reckognize that Biden, while far from a preffered choice, will be much better for this country and the global environment than Trump.
People have been voting for third parties for decades, and those third parties aren't any closer to gaining traction now than they were 30 years ago.
Imagine if fewer people in Florida voted for Nader in 2000. We would have had Al Gore, an environmentalist, as president. Maybe we would be doing OK now regarding climate change. Instead we got George W Bush with his Iraq War and Great Recession. 3rd party voters also contributed to Trump, the only guy who makes W look competent.
r00kieA vote for third party hurts Trump just as much as it does Biden cause its not a vote for them. If you were a Trump supprter you say a third party vote is a vote for biden, which it is not.
You definitely correct that someone would say that and its definitely true for both sides, I think it'll effect biden more than trump. I have no data to back that up, just an opinion.
Charlie_KellyMaybe the Democrats should stop sandbagging themselves. They had a better field to start this election year than they did in 2016 but somehow arrived at an even worse candidate than they did four years ago. You’d think someone like Tulsi Gabbard would be a Democrat’s dream but NOPE, let’s pick an old, senile pedophile instead, he’ll be able to take on Trump. Good job guys!!!
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 6:43:36pm
What are you smoking?
For the 2020 election, the Democrats got rid of the biggest hurdle to long-shot candidates like Bernie and Gabbard, the super-delegates. The voters didn't care, they still voted for Biden. That's not the DNC handing the candidacy to someone, that's the voters choosing. This isn't 2016, there's no "conspiracy" against candidates.
Mtuhockey33I’m not sure if you’re being serious or just trolling...
do you not realize the massive carbon footprint solo heli-tours as well as their multiple plane trips to go and ski all over the world have? The 1% tells the rest of us to protect the environment while they effectively have a negative 10-fold the effect on the environment compared to someone like me who uses their car to go to work and home.
Being serious just asked to get an answer, one thing about skiing though is the snow melts and theres no evidence like say people offloading on every nook and cranny in a prestine dessert etc. Unfortunately it's not a perfect world and most people contribute to pollution in one way or another.
eheathYou definitely correct that someone would say that and its definitely true for both sides, I think it'll effect biden more than trump. I have no data to back that up, just an opinion.
Well the GOP certainly agrees with you.
In Wisconsin, a G.O.P. elections commissioner and lawyers with ties to Republicans tried to aid attempts by Howie Hawkins, the current Green Party presidential candidate, to get on the ballot there, which were ultimately unsuccessful. In Montana, state regulators found that the Republican Party violated campaign finance laws as part of an effort to boost the Greens in five down-ballot races, including for senator and governor.
And in Western Pennsylvania, petitioners from Florida and California were brought in to gather signatures for Mr. Hawkins by an outside firm whose actions Mr. Hawkins and the party said they could not account for. Mr. Hawkins also did not make the ballot there.
Charlie_KellyMaybe the Democrats should stop sandbagging themselves. They had a better field to start this election year than they did in 2016 but somehow arrived at an even worse candidate than they did four years ago. You’d think someone like Tulsi Gabbard would be a Democrat’s dream but NOPE, let’s pick an old, senile pedophile instead, he’ll be able to take on Trump. Good job guys!!!
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 6:43:36pm
I don’t understand how you can have as many qualified candidates on the Democratic side and yet you give the people Biden. Gabbard, Sanders, Yang, hell just about any other candidate would have absolutely no problem beating Trump. Same situation as 2016. Literally any other candidate but nope, they wanted Clinton 🙄 The Democrat’s have nobody to blame but themselves for consistently losing.
Mtuhockey33I don’t understand how you can have as many qualified candidates on the Democratic side and yet you give the people Biden. Gabbard, Sanders, Yang, hell just about any other candidate would have absolutely no problem beating Trump. Same situation as 2016. Literally any other candidate but nope, they wanted Clinton 🙄 The Democrat’s have nobody to blame but themselves for consistently losing.
Jesus Christ.
Why is it that some people are willing to die on such stupid hills like this? Every shred of data out there disagrees with your take.
Before you give me "the polls were wrong in 2016" spiel, know that it was the state data, not the national data, that was wrong. The national data was pretty on-point.
Anyways, back to the point. Yang and Gabbard had ZERO chance to win the against Trump. Zero. They couldn't attract enough Democrats to win. Sure, they courted some of the independents but if they couldn't bring out registered Democrats it wouldn't fucking matter.
Yang's base was made of up primarily young people (mostly male) between 18-36. Those people, historically, don't vote. Relying on a young male-dominated is not going to win an election.
Like Yang, Gabbard's base was mostly men. These men tended to lean to the right. She had zero support among women. That's not going to win either.
It's clear their messages didn't inspire too many people.
So tell me, given that these candidates had a very small and specific base, makes them the kind of candidate who could take on Trump?
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 8:02:16pm
For the 2020 election, the Democrats got rid of the biggest hurdle to long-shot candidates like Bernie and Gabbard, the super-delegates. The voters didn't care, they still voted for Biden. That's not the DNC handing the candidacy to someone, that's the voters choosing. This isn't 2016, there's no "conspiracy" against candidates.
The Democratic establishment pushed just as hard for Biden as they did for Clinton. The fact that you put conspiracy in quotations says it all. You seem to live in this purist, fantasy land where there is nothing underhanded going on on either side of the aisle. Get real man. Democrats reek of desperation and it’s hilarious. And to think I voted for Obama 8 years ago....sheesh they’ve fallen far. They have to be worse than Republicans by now with all their pandering to the mob and lionizing of criminals.
Charlie_KellyThe Democratic establishment pushed just as hard for Biden as they did for Clinton. The fact that you put conspiracy in quotations says it all. You seem to live in this purist, fantasy land where there is nothing underhanded going on on either side of the aisle. Get real man. Democrats reek of desperation and it’s hilarious. And to think I voted for Obama 8 years ago....sheesh they’ve fallen far. They have to be worse than Republicans by now with all their pandering to the mob and lionizing of criminals.
So they falsified millions of votes so Biden would win? Got it. Seems plausible. I'm sure millions of those voters wanted Gabbard instead. She was such a good Repub-I mean moderate Democrat candidate.
There 100% is underhanded shit going down on both sides of the aisle. It's politics. But to think that the DNC pushed millions of voters to support Biden is beyond stupid. But you can believe what you want.
However, when comparing the parties let me ask you a question.
Which party did/does the following?
1. Neutered incoming Democratic governors in a lame duck session in both Wisconsin and North Carolina
2. Engages in voter suppression, mainly targeting minorities, through false voter fraud accusations
3. Gerrymandered districts to the point where they still won state majorities despite losing the popular vote.
4. Blocked a Supreme Court hearing in an unprecedented manner and then reversed course just 4 years later
5. Attempts to abuse the census for political gain
I can continue but I think I've made my point. There's only ONE party that constantly abuses their power to further their own political interests at the expense of the other party. Say all you want about the Democratic pandering to the "mob" (ironic given the GOP succumbed to the Trumpists and prior to that the Tea Party), but they haven't abused their powers in such a manner that they undercut the GOP and their voters. I think the pandering has gone too far on both sides, but I can't EVER support a party that is willingly and intentionally undercutting voters from another party with zero shame.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 8:48:43pm
2. Engages in voter suppression, mainly targeting minorities, through false voter fraud accusations - Democrats do this too. Voter suppression isn’t only Republicans. Both parties fuck with voters
3. Gerrymandered districts to the point where they still won state majorities despite losing the popular vote. Again, both parties do this... Republicans aren’t alone
4. Blocked a Supreme Court hearing in an unprecedented manner and then reversed course just 4 years later If Ginsberg really cared about the political outlook and not about her own personal legacy, she could have retired under Obama and he could’ve picked a new one but instead, she stayed on the stand and died while a republican was in office.
5. Attempts to abuse the census for political gain
I can continue but I think I've made my point. There's only ONE party that constantly abuses their power to further their own political interests at the expense of the other party. Say all you want about the Democratic pandering to the "mob" (ironic given the GOP succumbed to the Trumpists and prior to that the Tea Party), but they haven't abused their powers in such a manner that they undercut the GOP and their voters. I think the pandering has gone too far on both sides, but I can't EVER support a party that is willingly and intentionally undercutting voters from another party with zero shame.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 8:48:43pm
Dude you’re so blind to the fact that Democrats are literally no better than Republicans. They don’t give a fuck about you any more than the Republicans do.
fuck man, Obama preached to protect whistleblowers and advocated for shit like that until it happened with Snowden and then he went after the guy. I have 0 respect for any large party member. There’s a reason they got to where they are. They’ve fucked over numerous people and are in countless people/lobbyists/corporations pockets because that’s the only way they can get to where they’re at.
.MASSHOLE.So they falsified millions of votes so Biden would win? Got it. Seems plausible. I'm sure millions of those voters wanted Gabbard instead. She was such a good Repub-I mean moderate Democrat candidate.
There 100% is underhanded shit going down on both sides of the aisle. It's politics. But to think that the DNC pushed millions of voters to support Biden is beyond stupid. But you can believe what you want.
However, when comparing the parties let me ask you a question.
Which party did/does the following?
1. Neutered incoming Democratic governors in a lame duck session in both Wisconsin and North Carolina
2. Engages in voter suppression, mainly targeting minorities, through false voter fraud accusations
3. Gerrymandered districts to the point where they still won state majorities despite losing the popular vote.
4. Blocked a Supreme Court hearing in an unprecedented manner and then reversed course just 4 years later
5. Attempts to abuse the census for political gain
I can continue but I think I've made my point. There's only ONE party that constantly abuses their power to further their own political interests at the expense of the other party. Say all you want about the Democratic pandering to the "mob" (ironic given the GOP succumbed to the Trumpists and prior to that the Tea Party), but they haven't abused their powers in such a manner that they undercut the GOP and their voters. I think the pandering has gone too far on both sides, but I can't EVER support a party that is willingly and intentionally undercutting voters from another party with zero shame.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 8:48:43pm
I can play that game too! Which party...:
1. (Since you want to talk about Wisconsin) Allowed early in person voting in Milwaukee and Dane County (Highly Democrat) a week and a half earlier than the rest of the state in the spring election? Or wanted to send out mail in ballots two weeks before election? Or used “indefinite confinement” to bypass voter ID laws on absentee ballots?
2. Claimed voter suppression in the primaries in states like Georgia (highest turn out in state history) and Kentucky (highest since at least 2008) but don’t hold local officials of their own party accountable for poor organization and planning?
3. Attempting to block a vote on a Supreme Court nominee (it will fail) because it happened to their party in 2016? (Personally don’t agree with this as it’s the Presidents right to nominate Supreme Court Justices and Obama got done dirty)
4. Pushing for universal mail in ballots, ballot harvesting, and same day voter registration (all leading to potential voter fraud) on bill H.R. 1?
Its funny you want to talk about voter suppression when at least 10 million people every 4 years don’t even get represented in the presidential debates because of some arbitrary rule made up by a committee that keeps all the focus on the donkeys and elephants.
Maybe you think I like the GOP because I’m a libertarian? I don’t know but you are misguided if that’s the conclusion you come to. I’m definitely conservative but have no affiliation to the GOP or Democratic Party. They both suck, I just think one sucks more than the other. And I think one party (if they win the presidency) will begin to implement policies that affect my personal liberties (first and second amendment instantly come to mind) far more than the other party.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 10:31:42pm
eheathSo you're voting 3rd party just to say you did? What's the point of that? You can vote without voting for president, that's a very valid use of your vote as well, but if you're cool with trump being president then vote 3rd party.
As I said earlier, I’m voting 3rd party because I don’t want to force myself to pick between Biden and Trump since I would rather have neither of them be president. you may be fine with voting for one of them but I am not, and since I’ve decided to actually vote I would rather my vote go towards an actually decent person that I actually support. By all means you’re welcome to vote for whichever accused rapist you think would lead this country best- morally I do not wish to vote for either but I understand that not voting is a waste of my voice so I would prefer to vote for a party that I like instead of just mindlessly voting against another. Plus, who knows, maybe after this election 3rd party will get more traction than it has now if more people feel the same.
abar.I won't repeat myself but if you'd like to read my massive rant above it explains why you're wrong. I don't want Trump or Biden either, and I agree with your thoughts on the two party system, but voting third party is not an effective protest against it. If you want to help get rid of the two party system campaign your state officials (who control how voting is conducted in your state) to implement something like ranked choice voting so people can choose their favorite third party without the spoiler effect happening. It won't solve the problem, but it's a step in the right direction that can start on the local level where it's much easier to organize. Voting green may be marginally better than not voting at all, but I really hope you'll reckognize that this not the year to throw away your vote on principle, we need to be pragmatic and reckognize that Biden, while far from a preffered choice, will be much better for this country and the global environment than Trump.
lol
”go read my massive rant that proves you’re wrong”
Yeah bro I ain’t gonna go back and read your shit, you can’t even spell “recognize” correctly ffs why would I wanna know your opinion?
Young_pattyAs I said earlier, I’m voting 3rd party because I don’t want to force myself to pick between Biden and Trump since I would rather have neither of them be president. you may be fine with voting for one of them but I am not, and since I’ve decided to actually vote I would rather my vote go towards an actually decent person that I actually support. By all means you’re welcome to vote for whichever accused rapist you think would lead this country best- morally I do not wish to vote for either but I understand that not voting is a waste of my voice so I would prefer to vote for a party that I like instead of just mindlessly voting against another. Plus, who knows, maybe after this election 3rd party will get more traction than it has now if more people feel the same.
lol
”go read my massive rant that proves you’re wrong”
Yeah bro I ain’t gonna go back and read your shit, you can’t even spell “recognize” correctly ffs why would I wanna know your opinion?
I feel like there are a few of us in here that are just talking to the wall. It doesn’t matter what reasons we have, we are either with them or against them. Some don’t know how many times we’ve had to answer for what we are doing so they give us the same tired reasoning as to why our vote is (essentially) worth less than theirs. I’m about done with it honestly. But at least we can sleep at night knowing we didn’t contribute to, as you put it, “whichever accused rapist you think would lead this country best”. Just got my Jo sign in the mail, can’t wait to put it up.
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 11:13:06pm
**This post was edited on Sep 22nd 2020 at 11:14:14pm
Young_pattyAs I said earlier, I’m voting 3rd party because I don’t want to force myself to pick between Biden and Trump since I would rather have neither of them be president. you may be fine with voting for one of them but I am not, and since I’ve decided to actually vote I would rather my vote go towards an actually decent person that I actually support. By all means you’re welcome to vote for whichever accused rapist you think would lead this country best- morally I do not wish to vote for either but I understand that not voting is a waste of my voice so I would prefer to vote for a party that I like instead of just mindlessly voting against another. Plus, who knows, maybe after this election 3rd party will get more traction than it has now if more people feel the same.
lol
”go read my massive rant that proves you’re wrong”
Yeah bro I ain’t gonna go back and read your shit, you can’t even spell “recognize” correctly ffs why would I wanna know your opinion?
I'm agreeing with you on all the political opinions you have voiced. I'm just trying to explain how the way the political system is set up makes it so if you are voting for a decent person you actually support instead of a compromise candidate you might as well be voting for the opponent. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just pointing out the math and suggesting more productive ways to solve the problem. A third party will never be able to gain traction in our current voting system. I'm assuming since you said you would vote green that you somewhat care about the environment. If that is the case, I really don't see how you could morally justify not voting for the candidate most likely to beat Trump, all other issues aside.
n im sory i kannt spil gud eye gis mi oppipon sukks
