“ NO, SKIING ISN’T A WELCOME PLACE FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR”

SuspiciousFishYeah that is some bullshit.

SuspiciousFishDont blame White skiers, many of which have made significant sacrifices to live that lifestyle. And also acknowledge that not all, or inherently less, minorities may be willing to make those sacrifices to make that their lifestyle when they have other interests or priorities or dont live near the mountains. The article didnt mention even asking a single BIPOC why they dont ski. Im sure you wont hear any, "Im scared because their racist up there" but will hear, "Its way to expensive."

ScaryDumpTruckSkiing is an expensive sport and if black people don't want to be a part of it they don't have to.

Biffbarf/Thread

If someone can make an argument against this without succumbing to woke buzzwords, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

r00kieNailed it. Seems some people, such as the author, want to make racism exist where it does not.

Young_pattyliterally why I hate this community so much, thank you for continuing to push the narrative that our community is a bunch of rich retarded white kids. Honestly surprised too see you in there @ASSholebomber22 , I honestly didn't think you were that ignorant.



like we honestly wonder why no one gives a single shit about skiing and then turn around and bash anything that raises awareness about inclusion and the diversity of our sport. Truth be told I'm sure many POC would love to get into skiing but simply don't have the privilege that you all have had to get you into it

jcaPretty weak response IMO. You sound pretty defensive/threatened by this... Why is that?
The article isn't attacking you (us), but rather starting a dialogue on how we, as a community, can work towards being more inclusive.
Sure, overt racism isn't very prevalent in skiing in my experience. But that doesn't mean we're a universally accepting and welcoming to minority groups.
As a white male who grew up in a overwhelmingly white ski town, I don't pretend to have any perspective on how other groups view or feel about skiing. It's time to take a step back from the soapbox and listen to these other perspectives instead of just dismissing them because your personal experience doesn't align with someone else's.
We can all learn something and work together towards being a more inclusive community. There's always room for improvement, why stop here?

SuspiciousFishThe author put the article in a public space, his soapbox. Do I not have the right to counter what he is saying if I think its wrong?

rice.chex87 percent of Colorado is white, 78 percent of Utah is white, 89 percent of Montana is white, and 93 percent of Idaho is white. Align these numbers with the 88 percent white skier statistic and you’ll realize that the numbers have more to do with ratio then anything else. This does not mean that racism doesn’t exist in skiing, I just pointed it out because his solution relied heavily on increasing numbers of BIPOC in the industry and the hill which may not be realistic if you look at the ratio. Instead I think the best solution is for everyone to watch their own prejudices and maybe if someone is being blatantly racist call them out for it.

a_burgerNo but you do kind of at least owe it to them to separate the parts of the article you disagree with from the article as a whole, especially when a lot of it is based on his personal experiences. I agree that gaper day probably isn't something worth fixating on in regards to making BIPOC feel more comfortable. That said if someone is addressing why they and others feel uncomfortable and you disagree, there's way more ground to be made asking them why vs. discounting their opinion.

That's the one issue with this article I feel, it does a great job bringing attention to the racism in skiing but it is a little broad in it's scope and doesn't really allow for 2 way dialogue which is super key when discussing stuff like this.

A discussion like you and vt_scratch had is a lot more productive then patty's response to you and others above, and I see some parallels to patty's post and your response to the article. Maybe reach out to the author on IG and ask him to clarify what he meant in regards to gaper day?

pinkcamo1000I don't really buy this explanation. SLC is next to all the good skiing and is very diverse, same goes for Denver.

rice.chex

Edit: Denver county is 80 percent white. I can post a screenshot of that too if you would like. I’m not saying this is the only reason skiing is a white dominated sport but it’s by far the biggest factor. The numbers correlate very closely. I don’t see how you can make a good argument against it without providing some statistics that suggest otherwise.

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 6:51:22pm

SuspiciousFishOk, hopefully this is going to look ok pulling the text out. VT- I appreciate the response and think its cool we can have a good discussion here.


In 2007-2010 in Vermont it was not uncommon for white highschool students to say the N word to their friends without a single thought of how this was wrong. Trying to say its okay to say it if you use an A at the end instead of ER is also pretty messed up.

Maybe this is an East Coast thing but in any case it goes back to my original point. If we had the N word just die out as the horrible racist term it was there is no way kids would be saying it for kicks. The issue is that its become a word almost anyone who listens to modern music or media hears on a daily basis almost consistently. Its this strange thing where we have this now popular term and only Black people can say it but not White people. If White people say it, its not trying to be racist, its because they are being edgy by breaking this now arbitrary rule. Is it not a double standard that we say this is a dark word with a horrible past, but then let it be displayed almost everywhere in pop culture? Personally, I think the word needs to die altogether. That being said, if Black people have a reason to still use it Im not going to speak for them but we cant hide from the implications of this double standard.



The author's point is one form of exclusion to a group is just another barrier to another 'outside group' wanting to join the sport. Gapers are not typically people who come to resorts to flaunt their wealth. Its anyone who has no clue what they are doing and typically wearing gear incorrectly (upside down goggles, backwards helmet) or perhaps equipment not suited for the sport (like wearing jeans instead of snowpants on a pow day). Do you really think gaper day is representative with calling out white privilege? bravo, way to fight the good fight.

Im not directly saying Gaper day is calling out White Privilege but most of our collective hate for Jerry's are people that come to these resorts, dont know what they are doing, and act like asshats because they have money. Sure there are funny examples of well meaning people wearing goggles upside down but thats just funny in itself regardless of who is doing it. I still dont see how Gaper Day or dressing up funny and drinking in a dirt parking lot can be considered racism.



Read this article, they say:
“Regardless of whether it’s Vermont or out west, we constantly get the looks of, ‘oh, there are black people on the mountain – what are they doing here?’” Allen said. “Our club’s motto is ‘who says we don’t,’ because we constantly get that.”

The same article says:


While those numbers seemingly reinforce some painful stereotypes about skiing being a whitewashed sport, the NESC regards Vermont as a comfortable and inviting place to enjoy the sport they love.

“Vermont has always been a welcoming place for me to ski, and I’ve been coming here for a long time,” said longtime club member Jim McKamey. “I don’t think anybody has ever made me feel like I shouldn’t be here.”


They also said most of the flak and surprise they got was from their own race:



Several club members acknowledged that the very first hurdles occur within the African-American community itself. Skiing has long been viewed as a “white sport” from both within and without.

“Stereotypes die very hard, and it’s not just white people,” Cooper said, recalling when a black ski patroller named Phil Littlejohn first suggested she try skiing. “I’m like, ‘are you crazy? Black people don’t ski.’ That’s what came out of my mouth. It took a lot to get me out there.”


This goes back to my earlier point of different priorities different people have. Its not unusual for any race or people to look confused when you spend much of your money on wooden planks, drive 2 hrs every weekend to slide on some snow. This is why im down on community outreach and getting kids out on the mountain, especially from the inner cities where they need a balance to the trapped downward spiral those conditions can create.



Sadly, those looks are nothing new.

“You can tell when you get on the chairlift with somebody who feels really uncomfortable,” Allen said. “They’re sitting there (stiffly), looking straight ahead and not saying anything.

“It’s hard, especially in the current political climate. There are people who sit in silence on the chairlift because they don’t know what to say and they don’t have that comfort level. They don’t know how to ask, ‘what’s going on here?’ without feeling as though they’re being disrespectful in some way.”

Exactly this- ESPECIALLY IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE. Because we have all this White Guilt, 'White Supremacy is Everywhere" Cancel culture- we have created racial tension and division. If White people are told they are bad, and racist and commit micro aggression then of course they may be uncomfortable to say something on a chairlift out of fear of saying something wrong or offensive even in normal conversation. This was written back in March but look how much worse it is now. There are literally BLM crowds marching through restaurants and yelling at any patrons that dont put there fist up in solidarity. You can deny with that sort of extreme animosity, that same person might be reticent to talk to a normal Black person at the grocery store.

While I understand you may not call this 'trauma', it is a feeling we can't understand as white people and white skiers, and that may be recurring trauma they face as people of colour.



Again from the article I posted above, from the experience of a person of colour... they say “It’s important that when you go to a ski area website, it’s not just showing white people – it’s showing blacks and Asians and Puerto Ricans,” Allen said. “Otherwise, it makes it look like it’s exclusive, when you open up a brochure or magazine and it’s only showing a bunch of white people doing it. That makes us say, ‘that’s just something that white folks do.’ It is so important to have that familiar face.”

This is a tricky one because resorts exist to make money. They know their market is White so they cater to those that are willing to spend money with them. Sure, they can put a bunch of Blacks and Hispanics on marketing slicks but unless it actually makes more Blacks and Hispanics come, it can come off as disingenuous. I dont have a problem at all for them doing this but at the end of the day, the marketing people do things to make money for the resorts and if Blacks dont care about skiing they will eventually realize its a waste of time to market to them. On the other hand, if it makes Blacks feel like they are more included and drives them to the resorts then yeah all the better.



I think your whole post comes off as feeling a bit attacked as a fragile white male (buzz words, people are gonna hate this) and not willing to take much responsibility to contribute to positive change that will allow BIPOC to feel more welcomed into the sport.

Buzzword indeed, ad hominim attacks are not going to help bring anyone together. Especially when its used to discredit anyone with a different idea. If I have a tone, its because in the late 00s it really looked like America was past racism. Young people all grew up watching Dave Chappelle, listened to Hip Hop and voted for Obama and nobody cared what race your friends were. Racism was literally something we collectively celebrated being over. Sure society as a whole still needed to change but the youth were primed to wash it away.

But then this new agenda came forth that suddenly painted everything as racist and marginalized White People as being "White Supremacists" and "Check Your Privilege" or "Cultural Appropriation" for any little thing. Then that gave birth to the natural push back of the Alt-Right shitheads which led to a death spiral into the shit cesspool of race relations we have today. That is why im against articles like this, they dont promote actually going into Black communities to promote skiing. Its just cheap shots at inconsequential issues and trying to use that to paint our sport as racist in a way that does not actually help anyone. We are supposed to get past racism, not look for every little excuse to wallow in it.

rice.chex

Edit: Denver county is 80 percent white. I can post a screenshot of that too if you would like. I’m not saying this is the only reason skiing is a white dominated sport but it’s by far the biggest factor. The numbers correlate very closely. I don’t see how you can make a good argument against it without providing some statistics that suggest otherwise.

**This post was edited on Aug 25th 2020 at 6:51:22pm

BiffbarfHe definitely wasn't referencing the 4th of July my dude. Did you read the article? He was referencing gaper day. Where do you ride where there's confederate flags? I rarely ever see them in CO, and if I do it isn't the kind of person that skis.

Biffbarf"Even end-of-season celebrations characterized by obscene patriotism for a country that still does not provide equal rights to BIPOC and throwback outfits that romanticize eras when the nation was violently hostile to BIPOC can feel uninviting."

Huh?

Young_pattyliterally why I hate this community so much, thank you for continuing to push the narrative that our community is a bunch of rich retarded white kids. Honestly surprised too see you in there @ASSholebomber22 , I honestly didn't think you were that ignorant.

VT_scratchThanks for your reply and not snapping.

pinkcamo1000idk man this could have to do with how county lines are drawn or something I'm not trying to get in a stats war here, all I know is that I lived in slc for a couple winters and it always seemed pretty diverse to me, I know there are tons of people on this site who live there maybe they agree/disagree. I'm just basing this on my personal experience.

pinkcamo1000idk man this could have to do with how county lines are drawn or something I'm not trying to get in a stats war here, all I know is that I lived in slc for a couple winters and it always seemed pretty diverse to me, I know there are tons of people on this site who live there maybe they agree/disagree. I'm just basing this on my personal experience.

Biffbarfdiscussion gets exhausting.

pinkcamo1000I don't really buy this explanation. SLC is next to all the good skiing and is very diverse, same goes for Denver.

Young_pattyApparently, especially when it’s not about something that impacts you as a person. Keep pushing the narrative dude.

BiffbarfHuh? What narrative? My guy you need to chill on placing people into wholeass groups they don't belong in if their views don't align 100% with yours.

FruitBootProit's not a narrative, freeskiing legit is a bunch of retarded white boys and this site is an example of that
I don't hate you guys or anything but we should be aware that this site is a pretty intimidating and edgy look for freeskiing lmfao

mcswizzleGaper day just makes fun of working class people who don't feel the need or have the means to buy expensive outerwear. It treats not having the ability to go skiing 50 days a year as something to be made fun of. I've had my share of fun at various Gaper Days but sadly its a massive show of superiority.

skiermanSaid the white boy who has a list of all his black friends in his back pocket.

skeirmanMan, as a person of color, I can honestly say, white people crack me up. You all seem to bend over backwards to find racism literally everywhere I swear to God. Almost like you actually CRAVE racism. I grew up skiing and then switched to snowboarding for many years, and have been back on skis for the past 6 years. I have never once, not a single time ever, been slighted or felt unwelcome because of my race while on the mountain. Have people been assholes to me? Yes, people at resorts can be assholes. People anywhere can be assholes. But I have never taken anything thrown my way as a racist thing, and I have FOR SURE never had anyone actually say anything racist to me while riding or skiing.

Young_pattyIt’s true. Skiing isn’t even welcoming to most white people let alone minorities.

mcswizzleGaper day just makes fun of working class people who don't feel the need or have the means to buy expensive outerwear. It treats not having the ability to go skiing 50 days a year as something to be made fun of. I've had my share of fun at various Gaper Days but sadly its a massive show of superiority.

MXmxI remember working at Deer Valley In 2008 there were people, including blacks of all races there. In sure the ratio of non white has gone up in 12 years.

I talked to the security guard at my work, who’s black into going to Vail this past season and ski. She enjoyed it and is going again this upcoming season. She personally told me how welcomed she felt there.

Virtually all of the staff at Deer valley were from Brazil, Uruguay or Paraguay with a couple from Australia, Sweden and locally. If you were able bodied, they put you to work. This includes office staff at the end of the season when the Visas run out.

Park skiing is deeply rooted in hip hop music and urban fashion. I personally grew up in the inner city 2 miles away from where the George Floyd incident happened.

I really don’t think Skiing and especially park skiing is intentionally racist. However, it’s a inherently expensive sport.

The same could be said about any expensive activity (sailing, travel, hockey, Olympic sports, etc.)

Skiing isn’t racist, income/ education disparities are.

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 1:57:29am

skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

DesertStixLol most would argue it does the opposite

skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

skiermanAnd most people would say supporting a point by stating "most people" is fucking stupid.

skiermanJust because a resort takes advantage of cheap labor for entry-level positions through work visa programs doesn't make them inclusive.

MXmxWhy are you assuming Deer Valley is hiring people of color for entry level positions?

MXmxVirtually all of the staff at Deer valley were from Brazil, Uruguay or Paraguay

MXmxWhy are you assuming Deer Valley is hiring people of color for entry level positions?

eheathDo you know what a J1 visa is?
EDIT you said this so how are you even asking this question, are you trolling?

**This post was edited on Aug 27th 2020 at 12:29:13pm

MXmxWhy do you think because someone is not white that they are on a Visa or entry level?

The referenced post has been removed.

The referenced post has been removed.

eheathThats not what I said, at all, but because of J1 visa, as you know, there are many non-white employees that work entry level jobs at resorts aka minimum wage jobs, food/bev, lifty, lodging. Its not an assumption, its true that many resorts hire non-white people for many entry level jobs. This has nothing to do with non-entry level jobs as we aren't talking about that, you literally just brought it up.

I was wondering why you posed such a stupid fucking question when you know that resorts hire 100s of J1 employees every year and they struggle to fill those positions without J1 workers.

skiermanSo you're ignorant about almost everything. Gotcha, thanks!