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Powered skis design project

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CharlzHub
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 8,556
For a university design project this year i'm designing a way to reach terrain that can't be accessed by ski lifts. It's still in the research stage currently so I don't have a concept yet, but I thought Newschoolers would be the perfect place to do some target market analysis.

Im currently thinking it will likely be two electric powered tracks (similar to the back of a snowmobile but obviously a lot smaller) that you attach to your skis. When you get to your destination you just take off the tracks, chuck them in your backpack, and freeski back down the mountain. So pretty much what i'm aiming for is an electric touring setup.

The units would be sold online or in ski shops the general public just for personal use, but i'm wondering if they would be useful for ski patrolling too?

Let me know your thoughts.

**This thread was edited on Aug 3rd 2020 at 5:09:23am
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Aug 2 2020 1:12AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2886 - Karma: 34,241
a hoverboard but for powder would be better i think. A stable platform with a super wide track to keep you afloat while going up hill.
Aug 2 2020 7:33AM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1495 - Karma: 3,881
I feel that any sort of powered device like that would be too large and heavy to just chuck in a bag unless you can come up with a vastly superior system than what currently exists to power it. But at that point I'd just focus on that as it would be a better project than this one. Unless the object was using something else to assist in a hill climb (like a rope, which defeats the purpose) I don't see it being able to make an ascent with a person + gear and have it come in at a comfortable carrying weight. With that said it would be cool to have a snowmobile "pocket bike" type of thing where you can ride it with skis on, not sure what applications it would have other than just being fun.
Aug 2 2020 8:24AM
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Biffbarf
Posts: 6811 - Karma: 72,755
Cool idea, I'd have no problem with them as long as they are only used where sled access is allowed.

Also, it takes a ton of energy to haul someone+gear up a mountain in variable snow. The entire mechanism would also have to be light enough to make sense on your back on your way down. It just doesn't seem too realistic.
Aug 2 2020 8:31AM
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sickjukes87
Posts: 84 - Karma: 411
There is already a product like this in a Nordic country I’m pretty sure
Aug 2 2020 9:19AM
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CharlzHub
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 8,556
snowfindera hoverboard but for powder would be better i think. A stable platform with a super wide track to keep you afloat while going up hill.


Thanks, I will take this into consideration during the ideation/concept development stage
Aug 3 2020 5:15AM
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CharlzHub
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 8,556
PoikenzI feel that any sort of powered device like that would be too large and heavy to just chuck in a bag unless you can come up with a vastly superior system than what currently exists to power it. But at that point I'd just focus on that as it would be a better project than this one. Unless the object was using something else to assist in a hill climb (like a rope, which defeats the purpose) I don't see it being able to make an ascent with a person + gear and have it come in at a comfortable carrying weight. With that said it would be cool to have a snowmobile "pocket bike" type of thing where you can ride it with skis on, not sure what applications it would have other than just being fun.


BiffbarfCool idea, I'd have no problem with them as long as they are only used where sled access is allowed.

Also, it takes a ton of energy to haul someone+gear up a mountain in variable snow. The entire mechanism would also have to be light enough to make sense on your back on your way down. It just doesn't seem too realistic.



When I first came up with the idea I also thought it was possibly unrealistic, and that it may be too heavy or underpowered. But recently I've been looking into electric scooters and longboards as research, and while tracks on snow will obviously provide more drag and resistance than wheels on pavement, those things can get up to 45km/h and have a range of 50km before they run out of battery. So if this product only needs to go about 20km/h and only needs a range of about 10km, I feel like it is feasible.
Aug 3 2020 5:22AM
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Static
Posts: 8575 - Karma: 3,992
what about screw propulsion instead of tracks, like one of these mounted to each ski, https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Screw-Propelled-Vehicles/
Aug 3 2020 5:47AM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1495 - Karma: 3,881
CharlzHubWhen I first came up with the idea I also thought it was possibly unrealistic, and that it may be too heavy or underpowered. But recently I've been looking into electric scooters and longboards as research, and while tracks on snow will obviously provide more drag and resistance than wheels on pavement, those things can get up to 45km/h and have a range of 50km before they run out of battery. So if this product only needs to go about 20km/h and only needs a range of about 10km, I feel like it is feasible.


Lithium ion batteries don't preform as well in the cold. Those numbers are taken on a flat surface where as this product will be used on an incline. Sure you probably won't take a direct route to the top but if you've ever tried to ride an electric scooter up a hill, especially a mid hill start, you will understand the difficulty in making this project a reality.
Aug 3 2020 6:27AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 611 - Karma: 6,611
Might be worth looking into a power assisted daymaker touring adapter rather than fully self propelled. It would then have applications for those who have energy to ski but not necessarily to tour and for those who want to do longer tours.

**This post was edited on Aug 3rd 2020 at 4:41:04pm
Aug 3 2020 12:54PM
2 0
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Biffbarf
Posts: 6811 - Karma: 72,755
CharlzHubWhen I first came up with the idea I also thought it was possibly unrealistic, and that it may be too heavy or underpowered. But recently I've been looking into electric scooters and longboards as research, and while tracks on snow will obviously provide more drag and resistance than wheels on pavement, those things can get up to 45km/h and have a range of 50km before they run out of battery. So if this product only needs to go about 20km/h and only needs a range of about 10km, I feel like it is feasible.


range/top speed doesn't scale and isn't what matters.

you'd use up an entire boosted board's 100watt/hour battery to lift a 100kg object (human+gear) 300 meters vertically at 100% efficiency. Then you'd have to subtract capacity loss at cold temperature, drivetrain loss, and 'rolling' resistance over the distance of which you travel which would likely be way more than a wheel on a paved surface.

If I were you, I would determine the amount of energy and power you would need to ascend a slope on skis at the velocity and target system weight you'd like, then use that rough number to determine battery and motor options and see from there if it is something that is feasible.

Definitely not impossible, I just believe you may be in a little over your head with your expectations.
Aug 3 2020 1:40PM
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jca
Posts: 4172 - Karma: 6,310
Sounds like a fun project but I really don't see how it would work or a need for them.
Aug 3 2020 5:54PM
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jca
Posts: 4172 - Karma: 6,310
Also, try riding a snowmobile uphill in deep snow to get an idea of what you need to be able to do.
I have a really hard time seeing any ski sized battery-powered track device being able to propel a skier uphill in powder. And no way would I want to carry anything extra in my backpack.
Aug 3 2020 6:04PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,752
Technologically we’re not able to make this at an affordable price or in a size that can be backpacked, I mean it would have to be the size and weight of a touring skin and be compressible to be backpacked, and have a LOT of power.
Now if you were to distort space time , possibly fold the mountain in half so your already at the top , that technology might be more achievable, or drone towing(flies back down ) , maybe buy a donkey , or a friend with a snowmobile

I am surprised to not see redneck generator/lawnmower powered rope tows built in the bc
Aug 3 2020 7:30PM
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ParkRx
Posts: 330 - Karma: 1,425
Similar but differenthttps://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/969244/The-Skizee--local-invention-hits-the-slopes
Aug 3 2020 8:05PM
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CharlzHub
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 8,556
ParkRxSimilar but differenthttps://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/969244/The-Skizee--local-invention-hits-the-slopes


I saw this. It's very interesting but quite different from what i'm aiming for
Aug 3 2020 8:28PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,752
CharlzHubI saw this. It's very interesting but quite different from what i'm aiming for


Now this thing actually would be ok for those long treks to and from the car to the base , just leave it at bottom
Aug 3 2020 10:41PM
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elcheapo
Posts: 3449 - Karma: 13,976
How bout strapping a turbine engine to your back
Aug 6 2020 9:42AM
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